Israel - Apartheid, yes or no.

[Phoenall]

Thanks to RoccoR for the links to the Statutes and Convention however RoccoR omits or overlooks clause c in Article II which states:

"Any legislative measures and other measures calculated to prevent a racial group or groups from participation in the political, social, economic and cultural life of the country and the deliberate creation of conditions preventing the full development of such a group or groups, in particular by denying to members of a racial group or groups basic human rights and freedoms, including the right to work, the right to form recognized trade unions, the right to education, the right to leave and to return to their country, the right to a nationality, the right to freedom of movement and residence, the right to freedom of opinion and expression, and the right to freedom of peaceful assembly and association"

Zionist Israel has a system of legalized discrimination WITHIN Israel proper, just looking at two areas as examples,
Land Laws: for example, "Israeli Arabs" are severely limited in the ability to own land and this limits them to living in either the cities or on less than 5% of the rural portion of the Zionist state. Some Israeli Laws that legalize ethnic/racial discrimination include: Emergency Land Requisition (Regulation) Law (1949), Development Authority (Transfer Of Property) Law (1950), Absentees’ Property Law (1950)
State Property Law (1951), Land Acquisition (Validation Of Acts And Compensation) Law (1953)
Keren Kayemet Le-Israel Law (1953), Prevention Of Infiltration (Offenses And Jurisdiction) Law (1954)
Basic Law: Israel Lands (1960), Israel Lands Administration Law (1960), Planning And Building Law (1965), Agricultural Settlement (Restrictions On Use Of Agricultural Land And Water) Law (1967)
Immigration & Citizenship Laws: I can cite the Law of Return for Jewish people, which gives them virtually automatic citizenship on application, but I'm sure everyone knows about that in this forum. More importantly, however, all inhabitants of Zionist Israel are required to carry "identification certificates" on which their "nationality" and religion are listed. This information has then been used to practice discrimination against certificate holders if their religion is listed as "Muslim", or their nationality is listed as "Arab". sample discriminatory Laws that apply here include: Registration Of Inhabitants Law (1949), Law Of Return (1950), Absentees’ Property Law (1950), Nationality Law (1952), Entry Into Israel (1952), Prevention Of Infiltration (Offences And Jurisdiction) Law, (1954), Population Registry Law (1965), Identity Certificate (Possession And Presentation) Law (1982), Nationality And Entry Into Israel (Temporary Order) Law (2003) and Nationality And Entry Into Israel (Temporary Order) (Amendment) Law (2005)

I could go on, but I'm sure you get the idea. As far as I'm aware all the above laws are all still in force and there are also other areas where discrimination on racial and/or ethnic grounds exists within a legalized framework; for example there are: Rules and Regulations regarding the allocation of State Benefits; Rules,Regulations and Laws involving Participation in Government; Institutionalised and routine violations of many Civil Rights; Routine harassment that can be construed as racist in nature.

There is no doubt in my mind, that Zionist Israel is guilty of the Crime of Apartheid as defined in both the Statutes and the Convention,

Respectfully,

Challenger.

Only one problem with your claims, the arabs themselves dictate what is put on their identification certificates. Just as they will go out of their way to make sure their cars are registered in a west bank district because their number plates are a distinctive colour

 

[Phoenall]

Alongside with the United States of America.
But again, not signing on the Rome Statute is what define a state to be apartheid as the Rome Statute defines?

Israel[edit]
Israel voted against the adoption of the Rome Statute but later signed it for a short period. In 2002, the United States and Israel "unsigned" the Rome Statute, indicating that they no longer intend to become states parties and, as such, they have no legal obligations arising from their signature of the statute.[28]

Israel states that it has "deep sympathy" with the goals of the Court. However, it has concerns that political pressure on the Court would lead it to reinterpret international law or to "invent new crimes". It cites the inclusion of "the transfer of parts of the civilian population of an occupying power into occupied territory" as a war crime as an example of this, whilst at the same time disagrees with the exclusion of terrorism and drug trafficking. Israel sees the powers given to the prosecutor as excessive and the geographical appointment of judges as disadvantaging Israel which is prevented from joining any of the UN Regional Groups.[29]

Wise see the future.

You mean the sneaky know the future that they intend to create.

Ahh fresh new conspiracy! Please explain what war crimes Israel found guilt of and by whom - next tell me if it has anything to do with apartheid, that would be an acceptable post, otherwise - don't bother.

What conspiracy, a Jew came up with it, and you had no problem using it against Germany even thought it was a World War and Judea declared war on Germany First, but here are two examples from above:
(d) Deportation or forcible transfer of population;
(e) Imprisonment or other severe deprivation of physical liberty in violation of fundamental rules of international law

You have a double standard, your gov can call anyone it wants a terrorist and that gives them a right to preemptive strike. That preemptive strike is known as terrorism.

We are talking about allegedly apartheid in Israel - which is allegedly directed to Israelis, you have terrible reading comprehension.

Alongside with the United States of America.
But again, not signing on the Rome Statute is what define a state to be apartheid as the Rome Statute defines?

Israel[edit]
Israel voted against the adoption of the Rome Statute but later signed it for a short period. In 2002, the United States and Israel "unsigned" the Rome Statute, indicating that they no longer intend to become states parties and, as such, they have no legal obligations arising from their signature of the statute.[28]

Israel states that it has "deep sympathy" with the goals of the Court. However, it has concerns that political pressure on the Court would lead it to reinterpret international law or to "invent new crimes". It cites the inclusion of "the transfer of parts of the civilian population of an occupying power into occupied territory" as a war crime as an example of this, whilst at the same time disagrees with the exclusion of terrorism and drug trafficking. Israel sees the powers given to the prosecutor as excessive and the geographical appointment of judges as disadvantaging Israel which is prevented from joining any of the UN Regional Groups.[29]

Wise see the future.

You mean the sneaky know the future that they intend to create.

Ahh fresh new conspiracy! Please explain what war crimes Israel found guilt of and by whom - next tell me if it has anything to do with apartheid, that would be an acceptable post, otherwise - don't bother.

What conspiracy, a Jew came up with it, and you had no problem using it against Germany even thought it was a World War and Judea declared war on Germany First, but here are two examples from above:
(d) Deportation or forcible transfer of population;
(e) Imprisonment or other severe deprivation of physical liberty in violation of fundamental rules of international law

You have a double standard, your gov can call anyone it wants a terrorist and that gives them a right to preemptive strike. That preemptive strike is known as terrorism.

We are talking about allegedly apartheid in Israel - which is allegedly directed to Israelis, you have terrible reading comprehension.

Yes I know. Like I said you have a double standard, and Israel gov is above any law except theirs.

Still no hard evidence of actual apartheid actions inside the borders of Israel. Whats wrong cant you find any ?

 

[Lipush]

Yes the Palestinians are under the control of the Zionist government and do not have the same freedom or rights as the Jewish people.

Do Palestinians have Israeli citizenship?

 

[Lipush]

Yes the Palestinians are under the control of the Zionist government and do not have the same freedom or rights as the Jewish people.

Do you know what apartheid IS?

 

[Penelope]

Yes the Palestinians are under the control of the Zionist government and do not have the same freedom or rights as the Jewish people.

Do you know what apartheid IS?

Please explain it to me.

 

[Lipush]

Yes the Palestinians are under the control of the Zionist government and do not have the same freedom or rights as the Jewish people.

Do you know what apartheid IS?

Please explain it to me.

Apartheid is when you mistreat and discriminate people of your own state, with your own rights, based on color, race, religion, etc. Israel would have been actual apartheid if it said that Arabs with Israeli citizenship, blue ID, cannot have a lawyer, for instance, in case they're arrested. Taking citizens within your state, with your citizenship, and treat them badly, just because they're not of your race.

Arabs in Israel can have a lawyer, can vote, can have public positions. You have Arab ministers, judges, beauty queens, news broadcasters, journalists, dancers, singers, doctors, you can find Arabs in every respectful position in Israel. They have full and equal rights. Hell, I pay over 25,000 thousand shekels a year for my academic education, while Arabs get it half price because of what they call "launguage difficulty", whatever that means.

The Palestinians may go through what Daniyel says, military occupation (in the eye of the beholder, but that's a different argument). Palestinians, though, don't hold Israeli citizenship. They're under the citizenship of the PA. Therefor, you cannot say Israel is apartheid to them, because by definition, apartheid is what happens between YOUR OWN CIVILIANS. Get it, precious? you can say occupation 100 times over, while we may disagree about that, at least THAT claim hold grounds. Not the overly cliche calling Israel "apartheid".

That is just nonsense.

 

[RoccoR]

montelatici, et al,

Interesting.

Give it up, I am much smarter than you. You will always lose in a debate with me, trust me.

(COMMENT)

Maybe so. That is a perception for the outside observer to determine.

By the way Rocco, as a terrone, you are probably mostly Arab anyway, are you a self hating Arab?

(COMMENT)

This comment is a bit confusing. What does it matter if I am ethnically part Arab --- or not? It doesn't change the basics of the discussion.

• BTW: If you are going to consistently apply that term of endearment to me, please have the courtesy to capitalize it: Terrone

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[fanger]

Arabs with Israeli citizenship, blue ID Lipaz, do they have the same color ID as jews?

 

[Daniyel]

Arabs with Israeli citizenship, blue ID Lipaz, do they have the same color ID as jews?

Yes they do.

 

[toastman]

montelatici, et al,

Interesting.

Give it up, I am much smarter than you. You will always lose in a debate with me, trust me.

(COMMENT)

Maybe so. That is a perspective for the outside observer to determine.

By the way Rocco, as a terrone, you are probably mostly Arab anyway, are you a self hating Arab?

(COMMENT)

This is comment is a bit confusing. What does it matter if I am ethnically part Arab --- or not? It doesn't change the basics of the discussion.

• BTW: If you are going to consistently apply that term of endearment to me, please have the courtesy to capitalize it: Terrone

Most Respectfully,
R

Wow, did Monti actually post that he is smarter than you? What an immature little shit ?

That's an extremely ironic comment coming from one of the dumbest pro Palestinians on USMB.

 

[toastman]

Arabs with Israeli citizenship, blue ID Lipaz, do they have the same color ID as jews?

Who cares?

 

[Lipush]

Arabs with Israeli citizenship, blue ID Lipaz, do they have the same color ID as jews?

Yes.

Why

 

[montelatici]

To identify Jews from non-Jews the Israeli ID shows the date of birth for Jews in the Hebrew calendar.

 

[RoccoR]

montelatici, et al,

So!

To identify Jews from non-Jews the Israeli ID shows the date of birth for Jews in the Hebrew calendar.

(OBSERVATION)

• US Military Identification Tags (Dog Tags) have the actual religious denomination on them. It is not an instrument of "Apartheid."

Jews use both calendars world-wide; it is one of the official calendars of Israel, along with the Gregorian calendar. Even outside of Israel, Jews will write both the Gregorian and Jewish dates on documents used within the community.

(COMMENT)

What we are really taking about in this observation is the secular nature of the Government of Israel.

The implication (masked allegation) made here is that the use of the Hebrew Calendar dates on the Israeli Identity Card (Teudat Zehut) is some sort of latent agenda to further "apartheid." I suppose it could not be something as simple as, how the application is filled-out for the card to start with.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Daniyel]

To identify Jews from non-Jews the Israeli ID shows the date of birth for Jews in the Hebrew calendar.

Why to force Muslims a Christian calendar while they forbidden to use it-but not forbidden to use the Hebrew calendar?

 

[Lipush]

He's trying to force readers to believe Arabs have no rights in Israel by saying that Jews don't force the Jewish law upon them.

That's must be his own twisted logic. Go figure.

That's like the stupid leftist who said Jews are racists for NOT raping Arab women...

 

[Penelope]

You mean the sneaky know the future that they intend to create.

Ahh fresh new conspiracy! Please explain what war crimes Israel found guilt of and by whom - next tell me if it has anything to do with apartheid, that would be an acceptable post, otherwise - don't bother.

What conspiracy, a Jew came up with it, and you had no problem using it against Germany even thought it was a World War and Judea declared war on Germany First, but here are two examples from above:
(d) Deportation or forcible transfer of population;
(e) Imprisonment or other severe deprivation of physical liberty in violation of fundamental rules of international law

You have a double standard, your gov can call anyone it wants a terrorist and that gives them a right to preemptive strike. That preemptive strike is known as terrorism.

We are talking about allegedly apartheid in Israel - which is allegedly directed to Israelis, you have terrible reading comprehension.

You mean the sneaky know the future that they intend to create.

Ahh fresh new conspiracy! Please explain what war crimes Israel found guilt of and by whom - next tell me if it has anything to do with apartheid, that would be an acceptable post, otherwise - don't bother.

What conspiracy, a Jew came up with it, and you had no problem using it against Germany even thought it was a World War and Judea declared war on Germany First, but here are two examples from above:
(d) Deportation or forcible transfer of population;
(e) Imprisonment or other severe deprivation of physical liberty in violation of fundamental rules of international law

You have a double standard, your gov can call anyone it wants a terrorist and that gives them a right to preemptive strike. That preemptive strike is known as terrorism.

We are talking about allegedly apartheid in Israel - which is allegedly directed to Israelis, you have terrible reading comprehension.

Yes I know. Like I said you have a double standard, and Israel gov is above any law except theirs.

Still no hard evidence of actual apartheid actions inside the borders of Israel. Whats wrong cant you find any ?

It happens daily as we post. Ongoing never ending.

 

[Phoenall]

To identify Jews from non-Jews the Israeli ID shows the date of birth for Jews in the Hebrew calendar.

WRONG as that is how the person wants it shown, it is not a forced obligation.

You really should research your claims more thoroughly Abdul, and stop posting ISLAMONAZI LIES.

 

[Phoenall]

montelatici, et al,

So!

To identify Jews from non-Jews the Israeli ID shows the date of birth for Jews in the Hebrew calendar.

(OBSERVATION)

• US Military Identification Tags (Dog Tags) have the actual religious denomination on them. It is not an instrument of "Apartheid."

Jews use both calendars world-wide; it is one of the official calendars of Israel, along with the Gregorian calendar. Even outside of Israel, Jews will write both the Gregorian and Jewish dates on documents used within the community.

(COMMENT)

What we are really taking about in this observation is the secular nature of the Government of Israel.

The implication (masked allegation) made here is that the use of the Hebrew Calendar dates on the Israeli Identity Card (Teudat Zehut) is some sort of latent agenda to further "apartheid." I suppose it could not be something as simple as, how the application is filled-out for the card to start with.

Most Respectfully,
R

In the UK it is prerequisite to fill out an ethnicity form when dealing with any government department, this is not apartheid but a form of census and profiling so that people can be targeted with the best provisions. This leads to better information being made available and tailored responses by staff.

 

[Phoenall]

Ahh fresh new conspiracy! Please explain what war crimes Israel found guilt of and by whom - next tell me if it has anything to do with apartheid, that would be an acceptable post, otherwise - don't bother.

What conspiracy, a Jew came up with it, and you had no problem using it against Germany even thought it was a World War and Judea declared war on Germany First, but here are two examples from above:
(d) Deportation or forcible transfer of population;
(e) Imprisonment or other severe deprivation of physical liberty in violation of fundamental rules of international law

You have a double standard, your gov can call anyone it wants a terrorist and that gives them a right to preemptive strike. That preemptive strike is known as terrorism.

We are talking about allegedly apartheid in Israel - which is allegedly directed to Israelis, you have terrible reading comprehension.

Ahh fresh new conspiracy! Please explain what war crimes Israel found guilt of and by whom - next tell me if it has anything to do with apartheid, that would be an acceptable post, otherwise - don't bother.

What conspiracy, a Jew came up with it, and you had no problem using it against Germany even thought it was a World War and Judea declared war on Germany First, but here are two examples from above:
(d) Deportation or forcible transfer of population;
(e) Imprisonment or other severe deprivation of physical liberty in violation of fundamental rules of international law

You have a double standard, your gov can call anyone it wants a terrorist and that gives them a right to preemptive strike. That preemptive strike is known as terrorism.

We are talking about allegedly apartheid in Israel - which is allegedly directed to Israelis, you have terrible reading comprehension.

Yes I know. Like I said you have a double standard, and Israel gov is above any law except theirs.

Still no hard evidence of actual apartheid actions inside the borders of Israel. Whats wrong cant you find any ?

It happens daily as we post. Ongoing never ending.

Then why are you refusing to provide the hard evidence of this alleged apartheid if it is happening daily inside the borders of Israel ?

Or have you just found out that there are no actual reported cases of apartheid in Israel at all