Is there a god?

[hobelim]

Out of mild curiosity, how do you believe the universe and we came into existence?

Through the Big Bang.

What causes the Big Bang?

We don't know. But not knowing doesn't automatically default to an invisible superbeing in another dimension who wants us to follow a book.

Logic dictates that it didn't cause itself and that something outside of the universe "caused" it to happen. My guess is that is our creator but, you're right, I can't PROVE it. However, the preponderance of the evidence supports a creator. But if you want to believe the fairy tale that the universe magically "caused" itself to come into existence, that's ok with me. I'd like to believe that too, but I just don't have the FAITH.

I think that an outside creator is a possibility (I'm agnostic) but an outside creator who wants us to follow a book that even believers argue over is kinda ludicrous, still possible, however remote the chances of that happening are. That's why I'm agnostic, there's no proof either way for or against the possibility of a god, but given real proof either way, I'm open to changing my mind. Seems pretty fair to me.

And one problem you have with your argument is that if there HAS to be a beginning to the universe, then why not a beginning to your god? It seems totally possible. So what I'm saying is that there are as many possibilities as there are ways we can come up with, and then some, so for myself, I'll simply enjoy the ride and keep abreast of the latest scientific discoveries in this domain.

If there was another world of superior intelligences in another dimension or on the other side of the universe how else would they be able to communicate with us if not by providing instructions on how to communicate with them?

How could they overcome the limitations of space and time to do that?

Think about quantum mechanics, the dual nature of light and how electrons, even you, can be in two places at the same time.......,,


if the electron can be in two places at the same time, it means that the universe has split into two universes.

 

[K9Buck]

And one problem you have with your argument is that if there HAS to be a beginning to the universe, then why not a beginning to your god?

Well, someone or something HAD to come first that didn't need to be caused by someone or something else, right?

 

[Taz]

Through the Big Bang.

What causes the Big Bang?

We don't know. But not knowing doesn't automatically default to an invisible superbeing in another dimension who wants us to follow a book.

Logic dictates that it didn't cause itself and that something outside of the universe "caused" it to happen. My guess is that is our creator but, you're right, I can't PROVE it. However, the preponderance of the evidence supports a creator. But if you want to believe the fairy tale that the universe magically "caused" itself to come into existence, that's ok with me. I'd like to believe that too, but I just don't have the FAITH.

I think that an outside creator is a possibility (I'm agnostic) but an outside creator who wants us to follow a book that even believers argue over is kinda ludicrous, still possible, however remote the chances of that happening are. That's why I'm agnostic, there's no proof either way for or against the possibility of a god, but given real proof either way, I'm open to changing my mind. Seems pretty fair to me.

And one problem you have with your argument is that if there HAS to be a beginning to the universe, then why not a beginning to your god? It seems totally possible. So what I'm saying is that there are as many possibilities as there are ways we can come up with, and then some, so for myself, I'll simply enjoy the ride and keep abreast of the latest scientific discoveries in this domain.

If there was another world of superior intelligences in another dimension or on the other side of the universe how else would they be able to communicate with us if not by providing instructions on how to communicate with them?

How could they overcome the limitations of space and time to do that?

Think about quantum mechanics, the dual nature of light and how electrons, even you, can be in two places at the same time.......,,


if the electron can be in two places at the same time, it means that the universe has split into two universes.

So your god is in another part of the universe?

 

[Taz]

And one problem you have with your argument is that if there HAS to be a beginning to the universe, then why not a beginning to your god?

Well, someone or something HAD to come first that didn't need to be caused by someone or something else, right?

No, you'd need to prove that. And you can't.

 

[K9Buck]

And one problem you have with your argument is that if there HAS to be a beginning to the universe, then why not a beginning to your god?

Well, someone or something HAD to come first that didn't need to be caused by someone or something else, right?

No, you'd need to prove that. And you can't.

It's just logic 101.

 

[ding]

And one problem you have with your argument is that if there HAS to be a beginning to the universe, then why not a beginning to your god?

Well, someone or something HAD to come first that didn't need to be caused by someone or something else, right?

No, you'd need to prove that. And you can't.

It's just logic 101.

Logic isn't her strong suit.

Taz = Mudda

 

[ding]

If there was another world of superior intelligences in another dimension or on the other side of the universe how else would they be able to communicate with us if not by providing instructions on how to communicate with them?

Through the laws of nature which were in place before space and time were created and controlled the outcomes.

 

[hobelim]

If there was another world of superior intelligences in another dimension or on the other side of the universe how else would they be able to communicate with us if not by providing instructions on how to communicate with them?

Through the laws of nature which were in place before space and time were created and controlled the outcomes.

fartsmoke.

 

[ding]

If there was another world of superior intelligences in another dimension or on the other side of the universe how else would they be able to communicate with us if not by providing instructions on how to communicate with them?

Through the laws of nature which were in place before space and time were created and controlled the outcomes.

fartsmoke.

We live in a deterministic universe where every cause has an effect. Standards exist for a reason. When one deviates from the standard and normalizes the deviance, predictable surprises will eventually occur.

 

[hobelim]

If there was another world of superior intelligences in another dimension or on the other side of the universe how else would they be able to communicate with us if not by providing instructions on how to communicate with them?

Through the laws of nature which were in place before space and time were created and controlled the outcomes.

fartsmoke.

We live in a deterministic universe where every cause has an effect. Standards exist for a reason. When one deviates from the standard and normalizes the deviance, predictable surprises will eventually occur.

Oh yeah? The square of the length of the hypotenuse equals the sum of the squares of the lengths of the other two sides.

Thats a fact!

 

[ding]

If there was another world of superior intelligences in another dimension or on the other side of the universe how else would they be able to communicate with us if not by providing instructions on how to communicate with them?

Through the laws of nature which were in place before space and time were created and controlled the outcomes.

fartsmoke.

We live in a deterministic universe where every cause has an effect. Standards exist for a reason. When one deviates from the standard and normalizes the deviance, predictable surprises will eventually occur.

Oh yeah? The square of the length of the hypotenuse equals the sum of the squares of the lengths of the other two sides.

Thats a fact!

So are standards, normalization of deviance and predictable surprises.

 

[hobelim]

What causes the Big Bang?

We don't know. But not knowing doesn't automatically default to an invisible superbeing in another dimension who wants us to follow a book.

Logic dictates that it didn't cause itself and that something outside of the universe "caused" it to happen. My guess is that is our creator but, you're right, I can't PROVE it. However, the preponderance of the evidence supports a creator. But if you want to believe the fairy tale that the universe magically "caused" itself to come into existence, that's ok with me. I'd like to believe that too, but I just don't have the FAITH.

I think that an outside creator is a possibility (I'm agnostic) but an outside creator who wants us to follow a book that even believers argue over is kinda ludicrous, still possible, however remote the chances of that happening are. That's why I'm agnostic, there's no proof either way for or against the possibility of a god, but given real proof either way, I'm open to changing my mind. Seems pretty fair to me.

And one problem you have with your argument is that if there HAS to be a beginning to the universe, then why not a beginning to your god? It seems totally possible. So what I'm saying is that there are as many possibilities as there are ways we can come up with, and then some, so for myself, I'll simply enjoy the ride and keep abreast of the latest scientific discoveries in this domain.

If there was another world of superior intelligences in another dimension or on the other side of the universe how else would they be able to communicate with us if not by providing instructions on how to communicate with them?

How could they overcome the limitations of space and time to do that?

Think about quantum mechanics, the dual nature of light and how electrons, even you, can be in two places at the same time.......,,


if the electron can be in two places at the same time, it means that the universe has split into two universes.

So your god is in another part of the universe?

I would put it another way..

If conscious existence was like a ladder with God, the kingdom of heaven, and eternal life at the top, most people on earth are currently lingering at the bottom where there is no God, with one foot in the fire, one foot in the grave.

 

[hobelim]

If there was another world of superior intelligences in another dimension or on the other side of the universe how else would they be able to communicate with us if not by providing instructions on how to communicate with them?

Through the laws of nature which were in place before space and time were created and controlled the outcomes.

fartsmoke.

We live in a deterministic universe where every cause has an effect. Standards exist for a reason. When one deviates from the standard and normalizes the deviance, predictable surprises will eventually occur.

Oh yeah? The square of the length of the hypotenuse equals the sum of the squares of the lengths of the other two sides.

Thats a fact!

So are standards, normalization of deviance and predictable surprises.

Damn. Are you in for a surprise when you find out that its obvious to everyone who can read that you are full of shit.

 

[ding]

Through the laws of nature which were in place before space and time were created and controlled the outcomes.

fartsmoke.

We live in a deterministic universe where every cause has an effect. Standards exist for a reason. When one deviates from the standard and normalizes the deviance, predictable surprises will eventually occur.

Oh yeah? The square of the length of the hypotenuse equals the sum of the squares of the lengths of the other two sides.

Thats a fact!

So are standards, normalization of deviance and predictable surprises.

Damn. Are you in for a surprise when you find out that its obvious to everyone who can read that you are full of shit.

My obligation is satisfied when I present the information. What people do with it is on them.

 

[EGR one]

" I said there are both literal and figurative truths in the Bible."

That's called cherry-picking. Now you know.

And if you choose to not believe certain things in the bible as being true, how can you justify believing other parts to be true? Who decides? And how? By simply saying "this is stupid and can't have happened so it's figurative, but this part sounds like something someone could have said, so we go with it"? Flip a coin?

No. That is called intellectual honesty. The Bible has several literary types; allegorical, historical, law, poetic, prophetic, epistle and proverbial. I'm sure others may add or subtract to this list, but this is a pretty good start. When trying to understand the meaning of passages it is helpful to understand which literary type one is reading and also to place or read the passage in the proper historical light. Something that people who are intellectually dishonest don't do.

Taz knows better than to make the arguments he / she is making. But now there is an even better explanation for Bible interpretation. Thanks for the good job.

You guys are living in a fantasy world. None of the big stuff in the bible can be proven to have happened. Like seriously, you think that god poofed man into being? That's a seriously thick slice of nonsense. And that the earth was formed before the sun? It's completely unfounded and goes against all scientific knowledge.

Scientific knowledge of the universe and it's creation is extremely limited. Many theories, few facts.

A computer programmer can create games that are almost lifelike. It would stand to reason that a far superior intelligence could do much better and on a grander scale. The Bible hints that all of this is not real, and the laws of physics can be suspended if one has enough faith in his/her ability to do so. If it is not real, then all of it is illusion.

I think they meant that the bible is an illusion.

I doubt you think that, but it must have seemed smart when you typed it.

 

[ding]

The moral standards which exist are not constructs of men. The moral standards which exist are independent of men, they are natural laws which have consequences. These consequences serve as a feedback to men. Such that it allows them to discover the moral law or standard through the outcomes or consequences of their behavior. Successful behaviors naturally lead to success. Failed behaviors naturally lead to failure. The problem is that the consequences of moral laws are not immediate, they are by nature, probabilistic. So people like Taz and hobelim tend to ignore that they exist. Thus dooming them to repeating the same mistakes over and over again.

 

[Taz]

And one problem you have with your argument is that if there HAS to be a beginning to the universe, then why not a beginning to your god?

Well, someone or something HAD to come first that didn't need to be caused by someone or something else, right?

No, you'd need to prove that. And you can't.

It's just logic 101.

Logic 101 would say that we don't know. Why are you folks so hung up on that your invisible friend came first? There's no logic to that. It's possibility, nothing more.

 

[Taz]

And one problem you have with your argument is that if there HAS to be a beginning to the universe, then why not a beginning to your god?

Well, someone or something HAD to come first that didn't need to be caused by someone or something else, right?

No, you'd need to prove that. And you can't.

It's just logic 101.

Logic isn't her strong suit.

Taz = Mudda

Says the guy who believes in an invisible being who wants us to read a book.

 

[Humorme]

The moral standards which exist are not constructs of men. The moral standards which exist are independent of men, they are natural laws which have consequences. These consequences serve as a feedback to men. Such that it allows them to discover the moral law or standard through the outcomes or consequences of their behavior. Successful behaviors naturally lead to success. Failed behaviors naturally lead to failure. The problem is that the consequences of moral laws are not immediate, they are by nature, probabilistic. So people like Taz and hobelim tend to ignore that they exist. Thus dooming them to repeating the same mistakes over and over again.

Most civilized people - Most third world people for that matter do not kill their own. When you speak about moral standards, it brought this to mind:

"But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, said the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people." Jeremiah 31 : 33

So there is a moral standard that we know is inherent in us that is not done by the animal species. It's these little things that attest to the fact that God exists.

I noticed the post following mine upon a second reading. Many people never came into contact with a book.

 

[Taz]

We don't know. But not knowing doesn't automatically default to an invisible superbeing in another dimension who wants us to follow a book.

Logic dictates that it didn't cause itself and that something outside of the universe "caused" it to happen. My guess is that is our creator but, you're right, I can't PROVE it. However, the preponderance of the evidence supports a creator. But if you want to believe the fairy tale that the universe magically "caused" itself to come into existence, that's ok with me. I'd like to believe that too, but I just don't have the FAITH.

I think that an outside creator is a possibility (I'm agnostic) but an outside creator who wants us to follow a book that even believers argue over is kinda ludicrous, still possible, however remote the chances of that happening are. That's why I'm agnostic, there's no proof either way for or against the possibility of a god, but given real proof either way, I'm open to changing my mind. Seems pretty fair to me.

And one problem you have with your argument is that if there HAS to be a beginning to the universe, then why not a beginning to your god? It seems totally possible. So what I'm saying is that there are as many possibilities as there are ways we can come up with, and then some, so for myself, I'll simply enjoy the ride and keep abreast of the latest scientific discoveries in this domain.

If there was another world of superior intelligences in another dimension or on the other side of the universe how else would they be able to communicate with us if not by providing instructions on how to communicate with them?

How could they overcome the limitations of space and time to do that?

Think about quantum mechanics, the dual nature of light and how electrons, even you, can be in two places at the same time.......,,


if the electron can be in two places at the same time, it means that the universe has split into two universes.

So your god is in another part of the universe?

I would put it another way..

If conscious existence was like a ladder with God, the kingdom of heaven, and eternal life at the top, most people on earth are currently lingering at the bottom where there is no God, with one foot in the fire, one foot in the grave.

So your god basically can't communicate with anyone except through a book.