Is it an Employer's Right to Discriminate?

[Oldandtired]

And that is exactly what they want to have happen.

They want you to be afraid to hire the white christian man at any cost.

Immie

huh?

discrimination against someone because of their religion IS COVERED and part of this same law!?????

I for one, as a female working in a man's field have been grateful for the anti discrimination laws being in place which allowed me to be hired and advance on my own merits instead of being turned down for the job at the door.

All the while, some other gentleman was turned down at the door.

If, and I am not saying you did, you got your job based on AA then you did not get your job on your own merits.


Immie

And Ironically....My guess is her sex had nothing to do with her hiring. She was likely best qualified for the job.

 

[Ravi]

And the man that was denied the jobn becuase he is a man? How do you think he felt?

And yes.....race, religion, age and sex were all factrors used to determine the "protected groups"

What is not in ANY protected group?

White, male, christian below the age of 50. How do you think they feel? What did they do wrong?

I am not one of them, but interestingly, the few UI have had toi terminate over the years never brought a discrinmination action against me.

But most women and minority that were terminated (as ironic as that sounds) did.

None won.....but I spent 10's of thousands to prove all terminations were warranted....and all of them were.

Ironically...if you are a minority employer, you are just as apt to have action taken against yoiu for discrimination......go figure.,

Actually whites, males, and Christians fall under the same umbrella of non-discrimination. Read the law.

Yes.....

but then look further....Orthodox Jewish MALES are under the protected group
ALL males over 50 as well
The only truely non protected are white christian males under 50......and exactly why are they not protected like everyone else?

That simply isn't true...you may not discriminate against anyone for their race, gender or religious views.

Maybe the problem is that white Christian males under 50 are never discriminated against for any of those reasons.

 

[beowolfe]

It is often been said that conservatives are sexest because they believe in the traditional family of mom stay at home and father go to work. I don't really agree with that but, for argument sake, lets assume this is true. Isn't it someone's right to believe as they do and isn't it someone's personal choice as to what they think is right for their own life without having the PC police telling them otherwise. The next statement liberals make is that this violates someone's rights but how is this true when most conservatives who believe in this "lifestyle choice" usually do not seek laws mandating that to happen which allows a person to execute their personal choice as they see fit over their own lives regardless if that choice is deemed morally right or wrong by others.

The claim that someone's choice of how they want to live their life somehow violates your own choice to live your life differently such as not believing a woman's place is in her home is absurd because it is impossible for someone's independent will to violate your own will of how you should live your own life.

Now I suppose it can be argued that an employer who will not hire a woman because he believes women should stay home and raise kids violates a person's own belief that they shouldn't so the remedy is a law that forces the employers to hire that woman which violates his rights to conduct his life as he wishes.

I ask, at this point, who's rights are being violated by the law? Is it the woman's or is it the employers right to decide how they want to live their life (albeit for reasons most people don't agree with). It can be argued that, without the law, that the woman's rights are being violated but were her rights being violated by any action of the law?

This is where the real root of freedom exists and that is in the absence of law and if you think that the employers has to give up his freedom to be evil then every evil thing that people can do, such as adultry, has to be made illegal. It can be done for the same reason that the woman says it is her right to be treated fairly by an employer and that is it is her right to have a non-cheating husband so now adultry is a crime just like every other evil is which is another loss of freedom because someone believed they had a right over the behaviors of others.

If this is still a question in your mind, you have my sympathies.....

 

[Ravi]

So you don't think the risk of being sued should factor into decision making?

I was talking about your idiotic belief that the chance that someone will get resentful is reason enough to allow racism.

You mean as opposed to your retarded assumption that racism can somehow be disallowed?

I never said that. You on the other hand...

 

[Oldandtired]

Actually whites, males, and Christians fall under the same umbrella of non-discrimination. Read the law.

Yes.....

but then look further....Orthodox Jewish MALES are under the protected group
ALL males over 50 as well
The only truely non protected are white christian males under 50......and exactly why are they not protected like everyone else?

That simply isn't true...you may not discriminate against anyone for their race, gender or religious views.

Maybe the problem is that white Christian males under 50 are never discriminated against for any of those reasons.

You say that is not true?

You state as fact something yoiu obviously do not know as fact.
You are wrong.
There are groups referred to as "protected groups" in labor law.
Do your research before you denopunce what one says.
White christian males under the age of 50 can NOT claim discrimination for any reason...unless they are openly gay...but that is a recent additon ot hte protected groups.

 

[Immanuel]

huh?

discrimination against someone because of their religion IS COVERED and part of this same law!?????

I for one, as a female working in a man's field have been grateful for the anti discrimination laws being in place which allowed me to be hired and advance on my own merits instead of being turned down for the job at the door.

And the man that was denied the jobn becuase he is a man? How do you think he felt?

And yes.....race, religion, age and sex were all factrors used to determine the "protected groups"

What is not in ANY protected group?

White, male, christian below the age of 50. How do you think they feel? What did they do wrong?

I am not one of them, but interestingly, the few UI have had toi terminate over the years never brought a discrinmination action against me.

But most women and minority that were terminated (as ironic as that sounds) did.

None won.....but I spent 10's of thousands to prove all terminations were warranted....and all of them were.

Ironically...if you are a minority employer, you are just as apt to have action taken against yoiu for discrimination......go figure.,

utter bullcrap.... all the law asks is that you give everyone, regardless of race, gender, religion or age, a FAIR CHANCE on MERIT at getting the job....it DOES NOT tell the private employer who to pick?

You are absolutely correct. The law does not tell the employer to hire minorities, however, in order to protect himself from the costs associated with not hiring minorities the employer compensates by making doggone sure he hires within the guidelines, and the white christian male who just happened to be applying for that particular job suffers the consequences.

Immie

 

[manifold]

I was talking about your idiotic belief that the chance that someone will get resentful is reason enough to allow racism.

You mean as opposed to your retarded assumption that racism can somehow be disallowed?

I never said that. You on the other hand...

Yes you did. But perhaps you're too stupid to understand your own words. *shrug*

I can't really help you there. But if you can clarify for me:

Is racism something that can be disallowed?

If not, then you expose your posts about "allowing" it as the agenda whoring strawmen they appear to be.

 

[Toronado3800]

Racism is something I will try to beat into the ground as much as possible. I embarrass anyone I can who I hear making racist statements to the point I can't believe someone hasn't kicked my butt.

The government can do the same. In the past the Constitution was used as a tool of ignorance supporting slavery. Now we can use laws to "encourage" folks to blend.

I'd even offer tax deductions for interracial marriages and kids. Something to offset the expected trouble they'll receive from 21st century racists.

 

[Oldandtired]

And the man that was denied the jobn becuase he is a man? How do you think he felt?

And yes.....race, religion, age and sex were all factrors used to determine the "protected groups"

What is not in ANY protected group?

White, male, christian below the age of 50. How do you think they feel? What did they do wrong?

I am not one of them, but interestingly, the few UI have had toi terminate over the years never brought a discrinmination action against me.

But most women and minority that were terminated (as ironic as that sounds) did.

None won.....but I spent 10's of thousands to prove all terminations were warranted....and all of them were.

Ironically...if you are a minority employer, you are just as apt to have action taken against yoiu for discrimination......go figure.,

utter bullcrap.... all the law asks is that you give everyone, regardless of race, gender, religion or age, a FAIR CHANCE on MERIT at getting the job....it DOES NOT tell the private employer who to pick?

You are absolutely correct. The law does not tell the employer to hire minorities, however, in order to protect himself from the costs associated with not hiring minorities the employer compensates by making doggone sure he hires within the guidelines, and the white christian male who just happened to be applying for that particular job suffers the consequences.

Immie

And that exact concern was why many oppposed the legislation to begin with.
The fear of reverse dicrimination coupled with the concern that discrimination would be used as an excuse...and actually MINIMIZE the importance of discrmination....

But, of course, those that opposed the legislation were simply against black people getting jobs.

Jeez.....

 

[manifold]

Toranado3800 wants to fight racism with more racism.


That is precisely what makes him an ignorant twat, IMO.

 

[Ravi]

Yes.....

but then look further....Orthodox Jewish MALES are under the protected group
ALL males over 50 as well
The only truely non protected are white christian males under 50......and exactly why are they not protected like everyone else?

That simply isn't true...you may not discriminate against anyone for their race, gender or religious views.

Maybe the problem is that white Christian males under 50 are never discriminated against for any of those reasons.

You say that is not true?

You state as fact something yoiu obviously do not know as fact.
You are wrong.
There are groups referred to as "protected groups" in labor law.
Do your research before you denopunce what one says.
White christian males under the age of 50 can NOT claim discrimination for any reason...unless they are openly gay...but that is a recent additon ot hte protected groups.

Here are the protected classes under WI labor laws. Notice that the only mention of age is "over forty" and that whites, Christians and males are protected.

Race
Generally, a member of a group united or classified together on the basis of common history, nationality or geography
1945
Title VII
Color
Black to white and all colors in between.
1945
Title VII
Creed
Religious, moral or ethical beliefs about right and wrong that are sincerely held. Employer has “duty to accommodate.”
1945
Title VII
Ancestry
The country, nation, tribe or other identifiable group from which one descends.
1945
Title VII
National Origin
Generally a member of a nation by origin, birth or naturalization or having common origins or traditions.
1945
Title VII
Age
Being age 40 or older.
1959
ADEA
Sex/Gender
Being Female or Male.
1961
Title VII & ERP
Handicap Or Disability
Physical or mental impairment making achievement difficult or limiting work capacity or having a record of or being perceived as having a disability. Employer has “duty to accommodate.”
1965
ADA
Arrest/Conviction Record
Information indicating a person was questioned, arrested, charged or convicted of a felony or misdemeanor.
1977
N/A
Marital Status
Status of being married, single, divorced, separated or widowed.
1982
N/A
Sexual Orientation
Having a preference for heterosexuality, homosexuality or bisexuality or having a history of or being identified as having a preference.
1982
N/A
Military Service
“Military service” means service in the U.S. armed forces, the state defense force, the national guard of any state, or any other reserve component of the U.S. armed forces..
2008
N/A
Outside Lawful Products
Use or nonuse of lawful products (e.g., tobacco, alcohol) off the employer’s premises during nonworking hours.
1992
N/A


Fair Employment Law and Complaint Process.

 

[Immanuel]

Ravi,

What do you think would happen if a white christian male aged 32 years walked into court and claimed he had been discriminated against by a potential employer?

Immie

 

[manifold]

What do you think would happen if a white christian male aged 32 years walked into court and claimed he had been discriminated against by a potential employer?

He'd be laughed out of the building.

And to be honest, he'd probably deserve it.

 

[Immanuel]

What do you think would happen if a white christian male aged 32 years walked into court and claimed he had been discriminated against by a potential employer?

He'd be laughed out of the building.

And to be honest, he'd probably deserve it.

Yeah, he'd deserve it for being foolish enough to think that he could bring such a suit to bear.

Immie

 

[manifold]

What do you think would happen if a white christian male aged 32 years walked into court and claimed he had been discriminated against by a potential employer?

He'd be laughed out of the building.

And to be honest, he'd probably deserve it.

Yeah, he'd deserve it for being foolish enough to think that he could bring such a suit to bear.

Immie

Yep.

And for being a grade A pussy.

 

[Ravi]

Ravi,

What do you think would happen if a white christian male aged 32 years walked into court and claimed he had been discriminated against by a potential employer?

Immie

If he were and had evidence of it I imagined he'd be treated just like any other person.

 

[Ravi]

He'd be laughed out of the building.

And to be honest, he'd probably deserve it.

Yeah, he'd deserve it for being foolish enough to think that he could bring such a suit to bear.

Immie

Yep.

And for being a grade A pussy.

Like your firefighter buds?

 

[manifold]

Simply imagining it doesn't make it so Ravi.

 

[Ravi]

The U.S. Supreme Court sided Monday with white firefighters in a workplace discrimination lawsuit, a divisive case over the role race should play in job advancement.

High court backs firefighters in reverse discrimination suit - CNN.com

 

[Oldandtired]

Ravi,

What do you think would happen if a white christian male aged 32 years walked into court and claimed he had been discriminated against by a potential employer?

Immie

If he were and had evidence of it I imagined he'd be treated just like any other person.

Thats the point....and you know it as I have been saying it.

ONLY a white chrsitian age 40 or lower (in your state) has to have proof to claim discrimination.
Protected groups get to claim it and it is up to the employer to prove otherwise.

That is where my complaint is over the laws as they are written. ANd as a result, many cliam diocrimination and "take a chance in court" as it costs them nothing to try....seeing as here in NYC if you make such a claim and you are in a protected grooupo, you do not need to see a lawyer. The DoL automatically goes to the employer and asks for proof it was NOT discrimination. If it is found it is, you recieve restitution.

WHite Christian males under 50 do not have that advantage.....AT ALL.