Is it an Employer's Right to Discriminate?

[mudwhistle]

Are you trying to say the employer's rights to hire on his beliefs trump the employees' rights to be hired on their qualifications?

I'm saying that an employer can hire anyone for any reason and discriminate based on any reason he wants even if that reason is really wrong to begin with because you do not have a right to be hired on your qualifications since it is the employer's choice to hire for whatever reason they want so whatever rights you have are ultmately transferred to you from the employer and the right for your employer to turn you into an obedient slave is ultmately transferred from you to the employer.

You right to be hired on your qualifications is not a right since it might violate the free action of an employers who chooses to hire for other reasons.

This line of thinking is precisely why laws are needed.

Why....you think forcing employers to hire against their better judgment is a good idea?

It's thinking like this that closes businesses down and causes unemployment.

You can't tell a business owner who they have to hire. Many of them would rather fire everyone and just do it themselves or sell their business and tell folks like you to go fuck themselves.

 

[Skull Pilot]

I'm saying that an employer can hire anyone for any reason and discriminate based on any reason he wants even if that reason is really wrong to begin with because you do not have a right to be hired on your qualifications since it is the employer's choice to hire for whatever reason they want so whatever rights you have are ultmately transferred to you from the employer and the right for your employer to turn you into an obedient slave is ultmately transferred from you to the employer.

You right to be hired on your qualifications is not a right since it might violate the free action of an employers who chooses to hire for other reasons.

This line of thinking is precisely why laws are needed.

Why....you think forcing employers to hire against their better judgment is a good idea?

It's thinking like this that closes businesses down and causes unemployment.

You can't tell a business owner who they have to hire. Many of them would rather fire everyone and just do it themselves or sell their business and tell folks like you to go fuck themselves.

The bolded line above sums it up.

Some people think they have a right to be hired.

Well the right to be hired or to work in nonexistent.

 

[Douger]

[/QUOTE]

Absolutely.

The owner of a business should be able to hire or not hire or fire or not fire anyone he wants.

Period.[/QUOTE]

that's why I live where I live

 

[Toronado3800]

What do you care if someone else is a racist as long as you believe you're not?

I contend it is my problem if I'm around a large number of racists.

Then don't hang out with people you think are racists

These evil seeds need nipped early.

So it's the thought police? It's my job to know what you're thinking and report it?

Think on a bigger level. We know its not safe to just let some gang banger plan his conquest of his territory out even if "we're not hanging out with him". SOMEONE who knows the gangster thug needs to drop a tip on the police or he'll grow into a regular godfather type.

The same can be extrapolated to a group of racists. First thing you know its a group of whites (or blacks) hanging out in a bar getting drunk making jokes about this or that. Next thing they think its acceptable not to hire folks based on skin color. Not based on looking like a greasy Italian mobster or stoner but based on skin color.

Before you know it there is a whole gang of these guys who get together and feel better about themselves after putting down blacks or jews or whoever and they're the Klan.

Lord forbid they start to get some political power by claiming gene purity as a goal or get one of their boys elected sheriff.

It happens, really. As much as the crack head down the street is my problem the racist is.

Oh, and you'll get caught when you have 50 or more employees and they're ALL white, men, women, black, white, or whatever. (affirmative action is always another fun debate)

Affirmative action is another law that should be repealed.[/QUOTE]
Gets old paying for the sins of our fathers doesn't it. Affirmative action is here to artificially stir up the melting pot and remove boundaries between the economic classes.

 

[manifold]

Toranado3800 = Dumbest motherfucker to post in this thread by a mile.

 

[manifold]

and then some!

 

[Oldandtired]

An employer should have the right to hire the most qualified at the most cost efficient salary....with absolutely no concern about race religion or sex.

Unfortunately they can not as many times when we pass on someone, it is automatically assumed the white christian gentleman was hired becuase of discrimination.

Any of you non business owners know how much it costs to defend against discrimination suits and accusations?

Any of you non business owners know how much time must be spent with the department of labor to prove we did not dscriminate?

It almost puts us in a psotion to discriminate against white christian men.

 

[Toronado3800]

Toranado3800 = Dumbest motherfucker to post in this thread by a mile.

So I take it you disagree with something I said?

What and why?

 

[AllieBaba]

Employers do have a right to discriminate and do so all the time.

They're just not allowed to (legally) discriminate based on race, gender, religion, and I think one or two more.

But they can certainly discriminate based on intelligence, personality, relocation, and even your favorite sports team or rock band.

Please let the colleges and reservations know that it is discrimination to give more "points" to some races who are seeking enrollment or employment, than others.

 

[Toronado3800]

An employer should have the right to hire the most qualified at the most cost efficient salary....with absolutely no concern about race religion or sex.

Unfortunately they can not as many times when we pass on someone, it is automatically assumed the white christian gentleman was hired becuase of discrimination.

Any of you non business owners know how much it costs to defend against discrimination suits and accusations?

Any of you non business owners know how much time must be spent with the department of labor to prove we did not dscriminate?

It almost puts us in a psotion to discriminate against white christian men.

Yes if not for the racist ideals of our ancestors employers would have that right.

Instead a lower uneducated class of folks was created in this country and affirmative action is an attempt to stir the classes together. An attempt to make it safe for your children to go to school w/o being kidnapped and held for ransom by a large disenfranchised lower class.

The costs are high. I understand that. I feel the cost of not forcing equality down the throats of historically racist America is higher.

 

[Oldandtired]

Employers do have a right to discriminate and do so all the time.

They're just not allowed to (legally) discriminate based on race, gender, religion, and I think one or two more.

But they can certainly discriminate based on intelligence, personality, relocation, and even your favorite sports team or rock band.

Please let the colleges and reservations know that it is discrimination to give more "points" to some races who are seeking enrollment or employment, than others.

That IS discrimination.

Anytime a group is given an edge, it is dicrimination against another gropu.

In employment law, there are what is kjnown as "protected groups".....and THAT is discrimination to the nth degree against the "non protected" groups.

 

[Oldandtired]

An employer should have the right to hire the most qualified at the most cost efficient salary....with absolutely no concern about race religion or sex.

Unfortunately they can not as many times when we pass on someone, it is automatically assumed the white christian gentleman was hired becuase of discrimination.

Any of you non business owners know how much it costs to defend against discrimination suits and accusations?

Any of you non business owners know how much time must be spent with the department of labor to prove we did not dscriminate?

It almost puts us in a psotion to discriminate against white christian men.

Yes if not for the racist ideals of our ancestors employers would have that right.

Instead a lower uneducated class of folks was created in this country and affirmative action is an attempt to stir the classes together. An attempt to make it safe for your children to go to school w/o being kidnapped and held for ransom by a large disenfranchised lower class.

The costs are high. I understand that. I feel the cost of not forcing equality down the throats of historically racist America is higher.

"An attempt to make it safe for your children to go to school w/o being kidnapped and held for ransom by a large disenfranchised lower class."

A disgraceful statement by you.

 

[AllieBaba]

I love it when elitists show their fear of the poor.

 

[Oldandtired]

I love it when elitists show their fear of the poor.

Actually, you are the one who siad affirmative action was designed to ALLEVIATE our fear of the poor.

I think YOU fear the poor. No one else seems to imply it.

 

[AllieBaba]

When did I say that?

Oh, wait. Never.

 

[Oldandtired]

When did I say that?

Oh, wait. Never.

My mistake...it was Tornado that said it.
I apologize.

 

[Care4all]

Are you trying to say the employer's rights to hire on his beliefs trump the employees' rights to be hired on their qualifications?

Absolutely.

The owner of a business should be able to hire or not hire or fire or not fire anyone he wants.

Period.

I agree. Even if the reasons are unfair to begin with.

Living in a free society pretty much means that someone else can live by their own moral beliefs. Thats why I am a "liberal" and think that these fair hiring laws should be removed.

so you are AGAINST the civil rights act and the acts that followed -protecting from discrimination?

 

[manifold]

People seem to ignore the fact that humans will always be human and you cannot legislate away how people think and feel.

Consider the following:

- How many rabid racists do you think are made to be less racist by anti-discrimination and affirmative action laws? I say zero.

- How many non-racists do you think would become racist if they are denied a job because of anti-discrimination and affirmative action laws? I say more than zero.

By this math, albeit simple, anti-discrimination and affirmative actions laws create more racists than there would otherwise be.

Racism will likely never go away completely. But as long as we continue to legislate based on race, it's here to stay... in an unnecessarily BIG way.

 

[manifold]

Absolutely.

The owner of a business should be able to hire or not hire or fire or not fire anyone he wants.

Period.

I agree. Even if the reasons are unfair to begin with.

Living in a free society pretty much means that someone else can live by their own moral beliefs. Thats why I am a "liberal" and think that these fair hiring laws should be removed.

so you are AGAINST the civil rights act and the acts that followed -protecting from discrimination?

I'm all for the CRA being applied to government. But extending it to the private sector does more harm than good IMO.

 

[Oldandtired]

Absolutely.

The owner of a business should be able to hire or not hire or fire or not fire anyone he wants.

Period.

I agree. Even if the reasons are unfair to begin with.

Living in a free society pretty much means that someone else can live by their own moral beliefs. Thats why I am a "liberal" and think that these fair hiring laws should be removed.

so you are AGAINST the civil rights act and the acts that followed -protecting from discrimination?

Not at all against the premise.

Completely against how the concept is abused.

Case in point...happened to me when I was 23 years old and had just been fired for excessive absenteeism:

Unemployment Rep: DO you feel you were discriminated against.

Me: No...I had an absentee problem.

Unemployment: You realize that if you admit to an absentee problem, you may be denied unemployment by your employer of record and then by us as well?

Me: Yes. I am aware. But I am guilty of absenteeism.

Unemployment: Did others in your office also have an absentee problem but not get fired?

Me: I dont know. I did not keep tabs.

Unemployment: I suggest we submit this to the Department of Labor as a possible case of discrimination and see how it pans out. At the least you will be granted unemployment.

Me: I prefer to tell the truth. I had an absentee problem...

ANd I walked out and did not collect a single check by choice.....and most important? I moved on and sold my first company 5 years later.

Just sayin'.