Individual mandate in trouble?

[Katzndogz]

It pretty much looks like this is going down. Mostly because the precedent is too dangerous. Once the government can mandate an individual pay for something the government wants, the sky is the limit. The question about mandating cell phones was a particularly interesting and observant one.

 

[Conservative]

DTMB,

Here ya go...............learn something. Because something is does not mean that it should be.

John Marshall, Marbury v. Madison, and Judicial Review

Just shut the fuck up and stop embarrassing yourself. Seriously. Nothing is more pathetic than someone too stupid to realize it.

Lesson Plans: Grades 9-12

 

[Katzndogz]

Why would single payer be unconstitutional? Note, we already have a single-payer system for senior citizens.

Not really since any senior can get a private supplemental policy. Portions of it are single payer but there is certainly a provision for additional insurance taking it out of a mandated single payer only system.

Okay, but that would also be the case if we passed a universal single-payer system. You'd still be able to buy insurance for things the single-payer insurance does not cover.

The terms universal and single payer escapes you.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

And it's [Medicare] going bankrupt and many doctors no longer accept it because it underpays them,

Both of which would be solved if Medicare was expanded to cover everyone. That would give it the leverage to hold down health-care prices, and make it so that physicians would not have the option of refusing to accept it.

Yeah, great idea, brainiac. Then bring on the rationing because we'll have less people becoming doctors.

which is one of the reasons why the cost of health care is going up, by the way.

No, it's not.

Uh... yeah, IT IS!

Has it been challenged?

Good question. Obviously not successfully, but lemme do a quick search:

Yes, apparently there have been court challenges involving Medicare. Here's one recent example.

Court says Medicare beneficiaries are stuck with government program - The Hill's Healthwatch

That lawsuit did not challenge the Constitutionality of the program, therefore it is irrelevant.

 

[LoneLaugher]

DTMB,

Here ya go...............learn something. Because something is does not mean that it should be.

John Marshall, Marbury v. Madison, and Judicial Review

Just shut the fuck up and stop embarrassing yourself. Seriously. Nothing is more pathetic than someone too stupid to realize it.

I am still waiting for you to impress me with your knowledge of how the USC gave the Supreme Court the right to even hear this case? Whassamatta? Constitution not working for you today?

 

[Polk]

Not really since any senior can get a private supplemental policy. Portions of it are single payer but there is certainly a provision for additional insurance taking it out of a mandated single payer only system.

Okay, but that would also be the case if we passed a universal single-payer system. You'd still be able to buy insurance for things the single-payer insurance does not cover.

The terms universal and single payer escapes you.

I understand it perfectly well. Why is a single-payer system for senior citizens constitutional, but a single-payer system for all citizens not?

 

[SniperFire]

CommieCare, and by extension, Obama's re-election, is toast!

 

[SniperFire]

It pretty much looks like this is going down. Mostly because the precedent is too dangerous. Once the government can mandate an individual pay for something the government wants, the sky is the limit. The question about mandating cell phones was a particularly interesting and observant one.

The Government lawyer said that was 'different.' Except, he could not explain why.

 

[Polk]

It pretty much looks like this is going down. Mostly because the precedent is too dangerous. Once the government can mandate an individual pay for something the government wants, the sky is the limit. The question about mandating cell phones was a particularly interesting and observant one.

The Government lawyer said that was 'different.' Except, he could not explain why.

He quite easily explained why: because it is impossible to escape the market for health care. Saying you can "opt out" of health care makes as much sense as saying you can "opt out" of dying.

 

[M14 Shooter]

It pretty much looks like this is going down. Mostly because the precedent is too dangerous. Once the government can mandate an individual pay for something the government wants, the sky is the limit. The question about mandating cell phones was a particularly interesting and observant one.

The Government lawyer said that was 'different.' Except, he could not explain why.

Several times. He was not allowed to get away with it either.
"But that's different" is the usual liberal response to their own standards applied against them.

 

[Annie]

It pretty much looks like this is going down. Mostly because the precedent is too dangerous. Once the government can mandate an individual pay for something the government wants, the sky is the limit. The question about mandating cell phones was a particularly interesting and observant one.

The Government lawyer said that was 'different.' Except, he could not explain why.

He quite easily explained why: because it is impossible to escape the market for health care. Saying you can "opt out" of health care makes as much sense as saying you can "opt out" of dying.

So why not mandate burial insurance? We're all going to die.

 

[M14 Shooter]

It pretty much looks like this is going down. Mostly because the precedent is too dangerous. Once the government can mandate an individual pay for something the government wants, the sky is the limit. The question about mandating cell phones was a particularly interesting and observant one.

The Government lawyer said that was 'different.' Except, he could not explain why.

He quite easily explained why: because it is impossible to escape the market for health care.

As with any numbe of other things, which were brought up.
"But but but.. that's different"

Saying you can "opt out" of health care makes as much sense as saying you can "opt out" of dying.

Interesting that you mention that, given that the idea of requiring burial insurance was brought up.
"But but but.. that's different"

 

[Valerie]

The Government lawyer said that was 'different.' Except, he could not explain why.

He quite easily explained why: because it is impossible to escape the market for health care. Saying you can "opt out" of health care makes as much sense as saying you can "opt out" of dying.

So why not mandate burial insurance? We're all going to die.

So funny you should say that! When I was listening to some of the rationale, I had that very same thought...

 

[The T]

I hope you're right. They need to shoot this down and go back to the drawing board. I know of no one who is against helping the truly needy in our country and we helped with their healthcare through Medicaid and many states have additional programs.

It feels completely wrong having the government tell you that you have to buy something, at a higher price than you are now, or you will face fines and maybe jail. Obama kept going back and forth on the mandate, saying it's a tax, it's not a tax........ He knows it's unconstitutional and he couldn't spin it to make it look otherwise.

If those liberal judges opt to set a precedent by effectively altering our constitution, kiss the country goodbye. Once they hand power to government to make these kinds of changes in our foundation, it's all down hill.

Indeed. as ObamaCare is written? It is all about nothing but an open door for total control over the private individual. IF the Individual mandate stands? Katy bar the Door. Precident is set, and Government can mandate anything they like.

 

[francoHFW]

Kennedy said Health Care might be unique. duh. You people against this are totally deluded, ignorant, and duped. Also goes for single payer people. NOT GOING TO HAPPEN, and Holland and Switz. are happy with their similar to ACA systems...

If they say the mandate is is no go, who needs it? LOL Obama doesn't need it...

 

[The T]

Kennedy said Health Care might be unique. duh. You people against this are totally deluded, ignorant, and duped. Also goes for single payer people. NOT GOING TO HAPPEN, and Holland and Switz. are happy with their similar to ACA systems...

If they say the mandate is is no go, who needs it? LOL Obama doesn't need it...

IF the mandate goes? Then where's the funding going to come from? YOU DO know that they are counting on the individual mandate the fund it, right?

If the mandate is struck down? ObamaCare folds like a flimsy house of cards.

 

[M14 Shooter]

I hope you're right. They need to shoot this down and go back to the drawing board. I know of no one who is against helping the truly needy in our country and we helped with their healthcare through Medicaid and many states have additional programs.

It feels completely wrong having the government tell you that you have to buy something, at a higher price than you are now, or you will face fines and maybe jail. Obama kept going back and forth on the mandate, saying it's a tax, it's not a tax........ He knows it's unconstitutional and he couldn't spin it to make it look otherwise.

If those liberal judges opt to set a precedent by effectively altering our constitution, kiss the country goodbye. Once they hand power to government to make these kinds of changes in our foundation, it's all down hill.

Indeed. as ObamaCare is written? It is all about nothing but an open door for total control over the private individual. IF the Individual mandate stands? Katy bar the Door. Precident is set, and Government can mandate anything they like.

Unquestionably.
Everyone is in the transportation market, and their mode of transportation, whatever it is and how ofthen they may use it, affects the costs of everyone elses transportation. Therefore, we're going to require that everyone buy an electric car.
Same-same.

 

[Valerie]

The Government lawyer said that was 'different.' Except, he could not explain why.

He quite easily explained why: because it is impossible to escape the market for health care. Saying you can "opt out" of health care makes as much sense as saying you can "opt out" of dying.

So why not mandate burial insurance? We're all going to die.

How about food? We all need food... And shelter... We all need shelter............

The Supreme Court's five conservative justices on Tuesday sharply challenged the Obama administration's arguments for the health-care law, with Justice Anthony Kennedy saying the government has a "very heavy burden of justification" for the measure's requirement that people carry health insurance or pay a penalty.

Conservative Justices Challenge Government Over Health Law - WSJ.com

 

[Annie]

I hope you're right. They need to shoot this down and go back to the drawing board. I know of no one who is against helping the truly needy in our country and we helped with their healthcare through Medicaid and many states have additional programs.

It feels completely wrong having the government tell you that you have to buy something, at a higher price than you are now, or you will face fines and maybe jail. Obama kept going back and forth on the mandate, saying it's a tax, it's not a tax........ He knows it's unconstitutional and he couldn't spin it to make it look otherwise.

If those liberal judges opt to set a precedent by effectively altering our constitution, kiss the country goodbye. Once they hand power to government to make these kinds of changes in our foundation, it's all down hill.

Indeed. as ObamaCare is written? It is all about nothing but an open door for total control over the private individual. IF the Individual mandate stands? Katy bar the Door. Precident is set, and Government can mandate anything they like.

I think the whole idea of 'health insurance' should be rewritten at it was over 40 years ago, to 'hospitalization' or 'catastrophic health insurance.' Stop the payouts and coverages on things people can afford, such as immunizations, sports and health physicals, eyeglasses, etc. Cover pregnancy and other expensive items. Hospital care in general and expensive out patient care like chemo or dialysis.

The deductibles can pretty much cover what should be covered, say $1k.

 

[M14 Shooter]

He quite easily explained why: because it is impossible to escape the market for health care. Saying you can "opt out" of health care makes as much sense as saying you can "opt out" of dying.

So why not mandate burial insurance? We're all going to die.

How about food? We all need food... And shelter... We all need shelter............

The Supreme Court's five conservative justices on Tuesday sharply challenged the Obama administration's arguments for the health-care law, with Justice Anthony Kennedy saying the government has a "very heavy burden of justification" for the measure's requirement that people carry health insurance or pay a penalty.

Conservative Justices Challenge Government Over Health Law - WSJ.com

JUSTICE ALITO:
All right, suppose that you and I walked around downtown Washington at lunch hour and we found a couple of healthy young people and we stopped them and we said, "You know what you're doing? You are financing your burial services right now because eventually you're going to die, and somebody is going to have to pay for it, and if you don't have burial insurance and you haven't saved money for it, you're going to shift the cost to somebody else." Isn't that a very artificial way of talking about what somebody is doing?

GENERAL VERRILLI:
No, that -*

JUSTICE ALITO:
And if that's true, why isn't it equally artificial to say that somebody who is doing absolutely nothing about health care is financing health care services?

Resposnse:
"but but but... thats different"