In 2016... What the hell does "Gay" even mean?

[Boss]

I just find it odd that he would find another man sexually attractive and not be gay or bi.

Again... it's NATURE. The male of any species has an inherent attribute built in for mating purposes. They instinctively know how to attract a female of the species so they can reproduce.... the birds and the bees man.

So given that you're not some freak of nature that doesn't possess this attribute, you have to have some idea of what makes a man sexually appealing to a female. You seem to believe that admitting that makes you gay or bi. I think NOT admitting something that is inherent nature makes you a homophobic bigot who doesn't want to admit that's what he is... and you exemplify this by continuing to denigrate those who aren't afraid to admit what is natural.

 

[Asclepias]

Well you already said that you found another man sexually attractive so its hard to believe you.

I havent judged you I am trying to help you sort out your feelings for other men.

Thats a long paragraph and you admitted you were exasperated. Yes its common knowledge unless you have been living under a rock for a couple of decades.

No... I wrote an average paragraph in compliance with standard English composition. I admitted I am exasperated by this ambiguous label of 'gay' which doesn't seem to have any definitive parameters other than opinions. It's simply NOT common knowledge or we'd all be in agreement on this and we're obviously not

I do find other men sexually attractive. Not sexually arousing to me personally but I prefer women. I find some women very sexually unattractive and unarousing... does that mean I'm not straight? I sometimes find lesbian women sexually attractive and arousing... does that mean I'm gay again? Watching two guys make out doesn't do anything for me but I don't mind watching two women make out.

It's the 21st century man... Sexuality is beyond our trite little catchphrases we've invented to denigrate, insult, ostracize, ridicule, condemn, exploit or use against people we don't like. I'm not the one living under the rock.... you seem to be.

The problem with your diatribe is the word is not ambiguous nor was it made up to denigrate or insult anyone. Gay people made the word up themselves. Yes this is common knowledge.

If you find other men sexually attractive then you are probably gay but it sounds like you are most likely bi since you also find women sexually attractive.

Again gay people made up the term gay so if that angers you then you should take it up with them. I'm all for calling people what they want me to call them.

 

[JustAnotherNut]

There is nothing wrong or 'homosexual' about being able to appreciate the beauty of another person's physical atributes of the same gender & doesn't qualify as being gay or homosexual or even having such tendencies.
I think a true homosexual person is one that is only sexually attracted to the same gender. BUT there are many out there that 'claim' they are gay, but are really only following the crowd because it's kind of the 'big' thing to do. A type of rebellion.


But, am I the only one that remembers the word 'gay' meant happy? And homosexuals were called queer?

I don't know that I'd use the word 'many'. There aren't that many homosexuals in general, at least compared to total population, and I doubt that anything close to a majority of those who identify as gay are just rebelling.

Come on out to Seattle and surrounding areas, more than you can shake a stick at.

How do you know that the people identifying as gay are not actually gay?

And before this goes further, I find it entirely plausible that some people, particularly young people, might claim to be gay as a form of rebellion, or to fit in with a particular crowd, things like that. It just seems unlikely to me that it would be particularly widespread.

You're right I don't, but those who claim gay identity has skyrocketed in just the past few years, more so than ever before. Yes part of this is because of 'coming out of the closet' and being more widely accepted than the old 'shame on you' attitudes of history. But all of it?

 

[emilynghiem]

I think gay is slang for homosexual. How did you get so confused about what gay means?

Well okay.. so what makes one a "homosexual" then? Do you have to engage in homosexual relations? Or is it just the simple attraction that makes you gay? And what if you are some combination of both? Or any of the myriad of examples I presented? Where do we actually define this "gayness" thing?

OK let's make this simple Boss.
If you think being gay is relative, like being a "little bit gay"
then FU IT you're not gay. It's like being "a little bit pregnant."
If you have to think about it, and ask, then NO.

If you are gay to the same degree that other people are heterosexual, then yes, you are gay.

You think and feel in terms of that orientation, you are attracted to and look for people with that orientation, and you establish relations with that orientation -- ALL THREE LEVELS -- body mind and spirit, thought word action. Internal, external, relations.

The same way people identify as heterosexual
and aren't "a little bit heterosexual"
the same for when you are homosexual.

And bisexual does not necessarily mean "ambiguous"
or "ambivalent" -- it can mean someone is 100% heterosexual and 100% homosexual at the same time, like being 100% fluent in French and 100% fluent in Spanish at the same time.

It does NOT have to mean "unable to decide" between French and Spanish; it means that when you relate to a French audience, then you naturally speak in French, and likewise you naturally speak in Spanish when relating to a Spanish audience.

The people IN the relationship will naturally choose words, focus, direction and activities that they ALL AGREE are real for that relationship, so it's 100%.

Well you said "make this simple" and you presented one of your famous meandering posts that is very confusing. Sexuality has nothing in common with various languages we can choose to learn. I fail to see any correlation there.

The language is related to the TWO PEOPLE COMMUNICATING WITH EACH OTHER.

The homosexuality/heterosexuality is determined by the TWO PEOPLE IN THE RELATIONSHIP.

You can take that literal or deeper.

A friend of mine pointed out that in the LITERAL sense of the word homosexual, then FOOTBALL is a homosexual sport because all the team players are the same gender.

So you can just keep it literal if you want.

If you want to go deeper then you can use homosexual/heterosexual to mean the deeper spiritual and sexual/romantic partnership between "soul mates" and then the GENDER of the two "soulmates" determines if the RELATIONSHIP that connects those two people is homosexual or hetereosexual.

If so, then if those two people identify with that relationship and orientation, then that is why they call themselves either
homosexual or heterosexual.

So you can start with literal gender of the two people in a relationship,
and then take it further to mean the actual connection between the two people, and then take it further to refer to how THEY IDENTIFY and call themselves.

It is totally appropriate to use the terms heterosexual/homosexual at any of these levels, from literal to personal identity.

Then, it depends on the context and level that someone is referring to.
Either on the surface, if it means LITERALLY homosexual/heterosexual.
Or if it means there is a special connection between the people.
Or if it means how the people actually IDENTITY and call themselves.

What on earth does team sports have to do with sexual orientation? What definition of homosexual would make the members of a sports team homosexual because they are of the same gender? Would it apply to other groups.....your small business only has women working in it? They are gay! Taking a tour of the Kremlin and there are only men? They are gay!

If you take the word "homosexual" to mean completely literally on the surface, then anything that is all the same gender can be labeled homosexual.

Obviously that's not what we're talking about
when we are referring to sexual orientation and preference.

On the other extreme, some people use heterosexual/homosexual to refer to the INDIVIDUAL identity and NOT just to the 'relationship with another person'

I am pointing out there are three levels that people can use homosexual as a label
* on the surface anything that is homogeneous in gender
* or in reference to the RELATIONSHIP and CONNECTION between two people
* or referring to the individual's actual IDENTITY as a person and how they see their gender and orientation

Instead of Boss asking what does gay or homosexual mean as if there is only ONE answer this could mean, I am saying there are different levels where people use the term homosexual to mean different things.

If we distinguish these three levels that people can be referring to,
then we can make sure we're talking about the same thing,
and not HAGGLE over what does gay/homosexual mean.
It means all three of these levels, depending on the context and focus.
So I would look at the CONTENT or concept that someone means,
and not haggle if that is different from someone else's concept or focus,
and what THEY MEAN when they use those terms.

 

[Asclepias]

I just find it odd that he would find another man sexually attractive and not be gay or bi.

Again... it's NATURE. The male of any species has an inherent attribute built in for mating purposes. They instinctively know how to attract a female of the species so they can reproduce.... the birds and the bees man.

So given that you're not some freak of nature that doesn't possess this attribute, you have to have some idea of what makes a man sexually appealing to a female. You seem to believe that admitting that makes you gay or bi. I think NOT admitting something that is inherent nature makes you a homophobic bigot who doesn't want to admit that's what he is... and you exemplify this by continuing to denigrate those who aren't afraid to admit what is natural.

It may be your inherent nature but its not mine. I dont find any men sexually attractive. I dont have a clue what women find sexually attractive about men either. If I was a woman I would be a raging bull dyke. Of course I think saying you find another man sexually attractive means you are gay or bi. Whats sexually attractive about another man? I am attracted to soft things like breasts and curves. I dont know any men that have those things.

 

[Montrovant]

I just find it odd that he would find another man sexually attractive and not be gay or bi.

Again... it's NATURE. The male of any species has an inherent attribute built in for mating purposes. They instinctively know how to attract a female of the species so they can reproduce.... the birds and the bees man.

So given that you're not some freak of nature that doesn't possess this attribute, you have to have some idea of what makes a man sexually appealing to a female. You seem to believe that admitting that makes you gay or bi. I think NOT admitting something that is inherent nature makes you a homophobic bigot who doesn't want to admit that's what he is... and you exemplify this by continuing to denigrate those who aren't afraid to admit what is natural.

You seem to be saying that what someone finds sexually attractive is

There is nothing wrong or 'homosexual' about being able to appreciate the beauty of another person's physical atributes of the same gender & doesn't qualify as being gay or homosexual or even having such tendencies.
I think a true homosexual person is one that is only sexually attracted to the same gender. BUT there are many out there that 'claim' they are gay, but are really only following the crowd because it's kind of the 'big' thing to do. A type of rebellion.


But, am I the only one that remembers the word 'gay' meant happy? And homosexuals were called queer?

I don't know that I'd use the word 'many'. There aren't that many homosexuals in general, at least compared to total population, and I doubt that anything close to a majority of those who identify as gay are just rebelling.

Come on out to Seattle and surrounding areas, more than you can shake a stick at.

How do you know that the people identifying as gay are not actually gay?

And before this goes further, I find it entirely plausible that some people, particularly young people, might claim to be gay as a form of rebellion, or to fit in with a particular crowd, things like that. It just seems unlikely to me that it would be particularly widespread.

You're right I don't, but those who claim gay identity has skyrocketed in just the past few years, more so than ever before. Yes part of this is because of 'coming out of the closet' and being more widely accepted than the old 'shame on you' attitudes of history. But all of it?

Not all......but I would think the majority, possibly the vast majority, are because of acceptance. "Shame on you" doesn't exactly cover what someone had to deal with if they were openly gay in the not so distant past. For that matter, there is still plenty of "shame on you" or worse to go around now, it's just far less of an acceptable social norm.

I could be wrong; I certainly don't have an extensive enough social circle to make any definitive statements on the subject.

 

[Montrovant]

Well okay.. so what makes one a "homosexual" then? Do you have to engage in homosexual relations? Or is it just the simple attraction that makes you gay? And what if you are some combination of both? Or any of the myriad of examples I presented? Where do we actually define this "gayness" thing?

OK let's make this simple Boss.
If you think being gay is relative, like being a "little bit gay"
then FU IT you're not gay. It's like being "a little bit pregnant."
If you have to think about it, and ask, then NO.

If you are gay to the same degree that other people are heterosexual, then yes, you are gay.

You think and feel in terms of that orientation, you are attracted to and look for people with that orientation, and you establish relations with that orientation -- ALL THREE LEVELS -- body mind and spirit, thought word action. Internal, external, relations.

The same way people identify as heterosexual
and aren't "a little bit heterosexual"
the same for when you are homosexual.

And bisexual does not necessarily mean "ambiguous"
or "ambivalent" -- it can mean someone is 100% heterosexual and 100% homosexual at the same time, like being 100% fluent in French and 100% fluent in Spanish at the same time.

It does NOT have to mean "unable to decide" between French and Spanish; it means that when you relate to a French audience, then you naturally speak in French, and likewise you naturally speak in Spanish when relating to a Spanish audience.

The people IN the relationship will naturally choose words, focus, direction and activities that they ALL AGREE are real for that relationship, so it's 100%.

Well you said "make this simple" and you presented one of your famous meandering posts that is very confusing. Sexuality has nothing in common with various languages we can choose to learn. I fail to see any correlation there.

The language is related to the TWO PEOPLE COMMUNICATING WITH EACH OTHER.

The homosexuality/heterosexuality is determined by the TWO PEOPLE IN THE RELATIONSHIP.

You can take that literal or deeper.

A friend of mine pointed out that in the LITERAL sense of the word homosexual, then FOOTBALL is a homosexual sport because all the team players are the same gender.

So you can just keep it literal if you want.

If you want to go deeper then you can use homosexual/heterosexual to mean the deeper spiritual and sexual/romantic partnership between "soul mates" and then the GENDER of the two "soulmates" determines if the RELATIONSHIP that connects those two people is homosexual or hetereosexual.

If so, then if those two people identify with that relationship and orientation, then that is why they call themselves either
homosexual or heterosexual.

So you can start with literal gender of the two people in a relationship,
and then take it further to mean the actual connection between the two people, and then take it further to refer to how THEY IDENTIFY and call themselves.

It is totally appropriate to use the terms heterosexual/homosexual at any of these levels, from literal to personal identity.

Then, it depends on the context and level that someone is referring to.
Either on the surface, if it means LITERALLY homosexual/heterosexual.
Or if it means there is a special connection between the people.
Or if it means how the people actually IDENTITY and call themselves.

What on earth does team sports have to do with sexual orientation? What definition of homosexual would make the members of a sports team homosexual because they are of the same gender? Would it apply to other groups.....your small business only has women working in it? They are gay! Taking a tour of the Kremlin and there are only men? They are gay!

If you take the word "homosexual" to mean completely literally on the surface, then anything that is all the same gender can be labeled homosexual.

Obviously that's not what we're talking about
when we are referring to sexual orientation and preference.

On the other extreme, some people use heterosexual/homosexual to refer to the INDIVIDUAL identity and NOT just to the 'relationship with another person'

I am pointing out there are three levels that people can use homosexual as a label
* on the surface anything that is homogeneous in gender
* or in reference to the RELATIONSHIP and CONNECTION between two people
* or referring to the individual's actual IDENTITY as a person and how they see their gender and orientation

Instead of Boss asking what does gay or homosexual mean as if there is only ONE answer this could mean, I am saying there are different levels where people use the term homosexual to mean different things.

If we distinguish these three levels that people can be referring to,
then we can make sure we're talking about the same thing,
and not HAGGLE over what does gay/homosexual mean.
It means all three of these levels, depending on the context and focus.
So I would look at the CONTENT or concept that someone means,
and not haggle if that is different from someone else's concept or focus,
and what THEY MEAN when they use those terms.

I think I understand now. You mean if you break it down to mean 'single gender'.

 

[Boss]

YOU don't find the men sexually attractive unless you are sexually attracted to them. If you see how they are attractive to others, but not to you, then you don't find them sexually attractive. I don't know why you keep repeating this. You are basically saying, "I find these people attractive, but I don't find them attractive.". It doesn't make sense.

No... I can certainly find people sexually attractive and not be aroused sexually by their sexual attractiveness.

Person A:

Person B:

You're honestly trying to tell me that you don't see any differentiation between the sexual attractiveness of Person A and Person B? ...Really?

 

[JustAnotherNut]

There is nothing wrong or 'homosexual' about being able to appreciate the beauty of another person's physical atributes of the same gender & doesn't qualify as being gay or homosexual or even having such tendencies.
I think a true homosexual person is one that is only sexually attracted to the same gender. BUT there are many out there that 'claim' they are gay, but are really only following the crowd because it's kind of the 'big' thing to do. A type of rebellion.


But, am I the only one that remembers the word 'gay' meant happy? And homosexuals were called queer?

Who said anything was wrong with it? I just find it odd that he would find another man sexually attractive and not be gay or bi. Yes I remember when gay meant happy. I never heard the word queer until I was on this site.

Really? What about fag or faggot? All terms used to indicate a homosexual up to around late 70's, early 80's maybe?

 

[aris2chat]

Well you already said that you found another man sexually attractive so its hard to believe you.

I havent judged you I am trying to help you sort out your feelings for other men.

Thats a long paragraph and you admitted you were exasperated. Yes its common knowledge unless you have been living under a rock for a couple of decades.

No... I wrote an average paragraph in compliance with standard English composition. I admitted I am exasperated by this ambiguous label of 'gay' which doesn't seem to have any definitive parameters other than opinions. It's simply NOT common knowledge or we'd all be in agreement on this and we're obviously not.

I do find other men sexually attractive. Not sexually arousing to me personally but I prefer women. I find some women very sexually unattractive and unarousing... does that mean I'm not straight? I sometimes find lesbian women sexually attractive and arousing... does that mean I'm gay again? Watching two guys make out doesn't do anything for me but I don't mind watching two women make out.

It's the 21st century man... Sexuality is beyond our trite little catchphrases we've invented to denigrate, insult, ostracize, ridicule, condemn, exploit or use against people we don't like. I'm not the one living under the rock.... you seem to be.

YOU don't find the men sexually attractive unless you are sexually attracted to them. If you see how they are attractive to others, but not to you, then you don't find them sexually attractive. I don't know why you keep repeating this. You are basically saying, "I find these people attractive, but I don't find them attractive.". It doesn't make sense.

love is beyond skin deep, love in the person inside

 

[aris2chat]

There is nothing wrong or 'homosexual' about being able to appreciate the beauty of another person's physical atributes of the same gender & doesn't qualify as being gay or homosexual or even having such tendencies.
I think a true homosexual person is one that is only sexually attracted to the same gender. BUT there are many out there that 'claim' they are gay, but are really only following the crowd because it's kind of the 'big' thing to do. A type of rebellion.


But, am I the only one that remembers the word 'gay' meant happy? And homosexuals were called queer?

Who said anything was wrong with it? I just find it odd that he would find another man sexually attractive and not be gay or bi. Yes I remember when gay meant happy. I never heard the word queer until I was on this site.

Really? What about fag or faggot? All terms used to indicate a homosexual up to around late 70's, early 80's maybe?

a rose by any other name.......

 

[Boss]

Well you already said that you found another man sexually attractive so its hard to believe you.

I havent judged you I am trying to help you sort out your feelings for other men.

Thats a long paragraph and you admitted you were exasperated. Yes its common knowledge unless you have been living under a rock for a couple of decades.

No... I wrote an average paragraph in compliance with standard English composition. I admitted I am exasperated by this ambiguous label of 'gay' which doesn't seem to have any definitive parameters other than opinions. It's simply NOT common knowledge or we'd all be in agreement on this and we're obviously not

I do find other men sexually attractive. Not sexually arousing to me personally but I prefer women. I find some women very sexually unattractive and unarousing... does that mean I'm not straight? I sometimes find lesbian women sexually attractive and arousing... does that mean I'm gay again? Watching two guys make out doesn't do anything for me but I don't mind watching two women make out.

It's the 21st century man... Sexuality is beyond our trite little catchphrases we've invented to denigrate, insult, ostracize, ridicule, condemn, exploit or use against people we don't like. I'm not the one living under the rock.... you seem to be.

The problem with your diatribe is the word is not ambiguous nor was it made up to denigrate or insult anyone. Gay people made the word up themselves. Yes this is common knowledge.

If you find other men sexually attractive then you are probably gay but it sounds like you are most likely bi since you also find women sexually attractive.

Again gay people made up the term gay so if that angers you then you should take it up with them. I'm all for calling people what they want me to call them.

You continue to imply this is a "diatribe" even after I have corrected you several times on that assertion. This is me trying to have a civilized discussion about sexuality in 2016 and what we mean by the term "gay". A "diatribe" is a forceful and bitter verbal attack against someone or something... that seems to be describing YOUR responses to my postings.

The term "gay" is certainly ambiguous because we've yet to settle on a firm definition... is it the act of homosexual behavior or the attraction to same gender? Is it the exclusive attraction and is it attraction and not arousal? Are there gay virgins?

If you find other men sexually attractive then you are probably gay...

And you're basing this on what? Certainly not nature... if I am a young budding peacock looking around at other male peacocks, I naturally realize what behavior attracts female peacocks and I naturally try to emulate that.... why would you think humans are any different?

You've seemingly indicated you lack this ability to instinctively be aware of what makes males sexually attractive to females so maybe YOU are the freak of nature? Maybe you're in denial of your own homosexuality? If that's not the case, I suspect you're denying that you have this ability because you think that might imply that you are gay or people will think you're gay and you are a homophobe.

 

[Searcher44]

I am serious here... what does it actually mean this day and age? Is a person "gay" because they are attracted to the same gender? Or do they have to act upon their attraction and have a homosexual relationship to qualify? If someone acknowledges that someone of the same gender is sexually appealing, does that make them gay? What if you are physically attracted to both genders? Are you gay by default? Do you have to engage in actual sexual relationships and how far can you go without being actually gay? What if you get turned on by making yourself intentionally attractive to same gender but you're not interested in having sexual relations? Like a gay tease? Is that gay? Does that make you a gay person? What if you enjoy the mystique of the closet gay lifestyle, slipping around and frequenting gay bars to have promiscuous sex with same gender but you are happily married to the opposite gender? Does that mean you're gay or straight? What if you are completely heterosexual but you enjoy entertaining people dressed as a transgender? Are you gay then? What if you are straight but attracted to same gender transsexuals? What if you don't have sex at all and you love all people of both genders and see them as equally appealing sexually? Is that gay? What if you have been straight your entire life, always knew you were straight, never had any desire to be with the same gender physically and you get drunk one night and have homosexual relations... are you made gay by that one-off? What if you're in high school and you don't really know what you are and you experiment with homosexual relations but decide you didn't like it... can you become "ungay" or are you forever gay?

Just curious... it seems we've painted ourselves into a rather bigoted corner.

Are there any homosexual animals?

A female Japanese macaque mounts another female

".... in some populations, homosexual behaviour among females is not only common, it's the norm. One female will mount another, then stimulate her genitals by rubbing them against the other female. Some hold onto each other with their limbs using a "double foot clasp mount", while others sit on top of their mates in a sort of jockey-style position, says Paul Vasey of the University of Lethbridge in Alberta, Canada, who has been studying these macaques for over 20 years."

"For some animals, homosexual behaviour isn't an occasional event – which we might put down to simple mistakes – but a regular thing"

"Bonobos are often described as our "over-sexed" relatives. They engage in an enormous amount of sex, so much so that it's often referred to as a "bonobo handshake", and that includes homosexual behaviour among both males and females." Like the macaques, they seem to enjoy it, according to Frans de Waal of Emory University in Atlanta, Georgia, US. Writing inScientific American in 1995, he described pairs of female bonobos rubbing their genitals together, and "emitting grins and squeals that probably reflect orgasmic experiences".

"In flocks of sheep, up to 8% of the males prefer other males even when fertile females are around. In 1994, neuroscientists found that these males had slightly different brains to the rest. A part of their brain called the hypothalamus, which is known to control the release of sex hormones, was smaller in the homosexual males than in the heterosexual males." That is in line with a much-discussed study by the neuroscientist Simon LeVay. In 1991, he described a similar difference in brain structure between gay and straight men. (OP's note: this is
a relatively old study, I wouldn't use it for argument purposes unless confirmed by more contemporary sources.)

LeVay suggests that the same gene that promotes homosexual behaviour in male sheep could also make females more fertile, or increase their desire to mate. The female siblings of homosexual sheep could even produce more offspring than average. "If these genes are having such a beneficial effect in females, they outweigh the effect in males and then the gene is going to persist," says LeVay.
(OP note: Suggested or proven?)

"It seems obvious that this built-in need to keep reproducing would manifest itself in a powerful sex drive, one that might well spill over into mating while females are infertile, or same-sex matings. Victorian scientists saw animals having more offspring than seemed necessary: today we see animals having more sex than seems necessary.

"We may never find a wild animal that is strictly homosexual in the way some humans are. But we can expect to find many more animals that don't conform to traditional categories of sexual orientation. They are using sex to satisfy all sorts of needs, from simple pleasure to social advancement, and that means being flexible."
http://www.yalescientific.org/2012/03/do-animals-exhibit-homosexuality/
Do Animals Exhibit Homosexuality?


"Recent research has found that homosexual behavior in animals may be much more common than previously thought. Although Darwin’s theory of natural selection predicts an evolutionary disadvantage for animals that fail to pass along their traits through reproduction with the opposite sex, the validity of this part of his theory has been questioned with the discoveries of homosexual behavior in more than 10% of prevailing species throughout the world."

"Biologists Nathan W. Bailey and Marlene Zuk from the University of California, Riverside have investigated the evolutionary consequences and implications of same-sex behavior, and their findings demonstrate benefits to what seems to be an evolutionary paradox. For example, their studies of the Laysan albatross show that female-female pairing can increase fitness by taking advantage of the excess of females and shortage of males in the population and provide superior care for offspring. Moreover, same-sex pairing in many species actually alleviates the likelihood of divorce and curtails the pressure on the opposite sex by allowing members to exhibit more flexibility to form partnerships, which in turn strengthens social bonds and reduces competition. Thus, not only do animals exhibit homosexuality, but the existence of this behavior is quite prevalent and may also confer certain evolutionary advantages."

I don't know if that answers any questions but some interesting stuff there, eh?
And don't forget Humans are creative animals with enhanced soaring imaginations so the tendency to be always trying something new, in sex or extreme sports or art should not surprise us.

 

[JustAnotherNut]

I just find it odd that he would find another man sexually attractive and not be gay or bi.

Again... it's NATURE. The male of any species has an inherent attribute built in for mating purposes. They instinctively know how to attract a female of the species so they can reproduce.... the birds and the bees man.

So given that you're not some freak of nature that doesn't possess this attribute, you have to have some idea of what makes a man sexually appealing to a female. You seem to believe that admitting that makes you gay or bi. I think NOT admitting something that is inherent nature makes you a homophobic bigot who doesn't want to admit that's what he is... and you exemplify this by continuing to denigrate those who aren't afraid to admit what is natural.

You seem to be saying that what someone finds sexually attractive is

There is nothing wrong or 'homosexual' about being able to appreciate the beauty of another person's physical atributes of the same gender & doesn't qualify as being gay or homosexual or even having such tendencies.
I think a true homosexual person is one that is only sexually attracted to the same gender. BUT there are many out there that 'claim' they are gay, but are really only following the crowd because it's kind of the 'big' thing to do. A type of rebellion.


But, am I the only one that remembers the word 'gay' meant happy? And homosexuals were called queer?

I don't know that I'd use the word 'many'. There aren't that many homosexuals in general, at least compared to total population, and I doubt that anything close to a majority of those who identify as gay are just rebelling.

Come on out to Seattle and surrounding areas, more than you can shake a stick at.

How do you know that the people identifying as gay are not actually gay?

And before this goes further, I find it entirely plausible that some people, particularly young people, might claim to be gay as a form of rebellion, or to fit in with a particular crowd, things like that. It just seems unlikely to me that it would be particularly widespread.

You're right I don't, but those who claim gay identity has skyrocketed in just the past few years, more so than ever before. Yes part of this is because of 'coming out of the closet' and being more widely accepted than the old 'shame on you' attitudes of history. But all of it?

Not all......but I would think the majority, possibly the vast majority, are because of acceptance. "Shame on you" doesn't exactly cover what someone had to deal with if they were openly gay in the not so distant past. For that matter, there is still plenty of "shame on you" or worse to go around now, it's just far less of an acceptable social norm.

I could be wrong; I certainly don't have an extensive enough social circle to make any definitive statements on the subject.

I understand what you are saying. And I also know that 'shame on you' doesn't do justice to the enormity of the injustice they've endured. My thought here is the incident in Wyoming. I just couldn't think of a more proper term at the moment.

I just don't think there really are as many 'true' homosexuals vs those making a conscious choice. I have met a few true homosexuals and they are nothing like the many same sex couples I've seen on the street or dealt with when working with the public. It almost seems more like some movement similar to a political movement. Seems as though they are everywhere, even young teens in the local schools and not just a few. There are LGBT parades, holidays, etc. and a lot of this is as if they are pushing it 'in your face'.
I don't know, sometimes I wonder if there are any heterosexuals left out there.

 

[Boss]

You know exactly what I'm talking about. You said that guy was sexually attractive. If he is attractive to you then you are attracted to him.

I am attracted to a well-cooked T-bone steak... I don't want to have sex with it. I think Halle Berry is a sexually attractive female but she is not my type, she doesn't turn me on sexually. I think George Clooney is a sexually attractive male but I don't get a boner when I see him without a shirt... I don't have fantasies about him... I wouldn't have sex with him... I'm not sexually stimulated by him. I've never found another male to be sexually arousing but I can often acknowledge sexually attractive men.

My ex wife used to be crazy about Sean Connery. She said he was the sexiest man alive... I never really saw that.. he seemed handsome in a way, but I thought Roger Moore and Pierce Brosnan were sexier James Bonds. Back in my single days when I went out clubbing, looking to pick up women, I wanted to go with guys who were sexy looking like me and not some dumpy nerds who couldn't pick up chicks... but I didn't want to go with guys who were hotter than me either.

I've just never had the problem with recognizing sexual attractiveness in both males and females and I don't understand how any male really does because it's perfectly natural and it's okay. It doesn't make you gay. Much of my career, I spent making men more attractive in the way they dress and present themselves to appeal to the female market. Sexual attractiveness is such a huge part of marketing and it's very important to know what works and what doesn't. That said, in my field, there were a lot of "gay" males. But really... in 2016... why do we cling to these ambiguous labels that simply keep us segregated? It seems so dumb and backward-thinking to me.

 

[JustAnotherNut]

Sean Connery IS the sexiest man alive. Not was, IS.

 

[Fang]

Gay means the same thing in 2016 that it meant in 1990, 1950, 1850, etc. If you're a man and you're gay you like to take it up the ass. Disgusting I know. But thats what it means.

 

[LoneLaugher]

I am serious here... what does it actually mean this day and age? Is a person "gay" because they are attracted to the same gender? Or do they have to act upon their attraction and have a homosexual relationship to qualify? If someone acknowledges that someone of the same gender is sexually appealing, does that make them gay? What if you are physically attracted to both genders? Are you gay by default? Do you have to engage in actual sexual relationships and how far can you go without being actually gay? What if you get turned on by making yourself intentionally attractive to same gender but you're not interested in having sexual relations? Like a gay tease? Is that gay? Does that make you a gay person? What if you enjoy the mystique of the closet gay lifestyle, slipping around and frequenting gay bars to have promiscuous sex with same gender but you are happily married to the opposite gender? Does that mean you're gay or straight? What if you are completely heterosexual but you enjoy entertaining people dressed as a transgender? Are you gay then? What if you are straight but attracted to same gender transsexuals? What if you don't have sex at all and you love all people of both genders and see them as equally appealing sexually? Is that gay? What if you have been straight your entire life, always knew you were straight, never had any desire to be with the same gender physically and you get drunk one night and have homosexual relations... are you made gay by that one-off? What if you're in high school and you don't really know what you are and you experiment with homosexual relations but decide you didn't like it... can you become "ungay" or are you forever gay?

Just curious... it seems we've painted ourselves into a rather bigoted corner.

Yes. We all know. You are "just curious". It's OK. It's 2016 and you can be yourself. There are still some states where you can be fired if your boss finds out....but that's OK. Your boss doesn't hate you. He hates the sin.

 

[LoneLaugher]

[/QUOTE]So you can be banging chicks left and right... biggest man whore around... but if you have attraction to males, even if you don't act on it... you're gay?[/QUOTE]

No. Relax. You are bisexual. Not gay. Feel better?

 

[Ravi]

I feel sorry for the OP. Looks like he spent a long night struggling with his sexual identity. The pictures of "attractive" males he's posted look gay.