I'm A Boy-Girl

[Amanda]

WTF? I've never seen that except when the bagpipe corps comes by in a parade or at a Renaissance festival and even in those cases it would have been a very small percentage compared to the number of people involved. Where do you get "a lot" from?

I think she meant a lot as in not just within the confines of the U.S.

Not only that, but many people here wear them as part of their everyday wardrobe, Allie lives in some secluded place where they are not effected by fashion trends. We have a store just a block from where I live that sells them as well, they make a fortune. Changing the name doesn't change the fact that they are skirts.

Also, throughout history, in the 1600's everyone with money wore dresses, and all the poor wore pants and blouses (they didn't have teeshirts back then). Also all the men wore really womanly looking headresses and wigs. Seriously ... it's fucking clothes. Thank your lucky stars they aren't asking where babies come from at age 3 and get over yourself. Wearing certain clothing doesn't magically change their gender. When I was young I had to go into the "boys" department a lot, because you just can't have a flowing dress on when working with machines, not a good idea. Luckily my father didn't see the world so black and white, in spite of being a redneck, he though everyone should wear jeans (now they do but meh) and teeshirts and live on ranches. So again, what is the difference between "male" clothes and "female" clothes?

Since you weren't around in the 1600's and you said you saw it a LOT I'd like some clarification on what you think "a lot" is. I see "a lot" of people everyday and none of the men are in dresses or skirts or anything of the kind. I'd like to know "a lot" applies to this alleged horde of male cheerleaders too. On any given squad I've never seen more than 2 and they weren't in skirts so I'm not even sure their official designation was "cheerleader".

I won't dispute that there probably are men that wear skirts outside of drag shows and maybe some male "cheerleaders" think of themselves as cheerleaders, but "many"? "a lot"? WTF does that mean?

I suspect you're using vague terms so the weakness of the case you're trying to make can't be easily scrutinized but I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

 

[AllieBaba]

Boys and girls have much the same lifestyle, so their clothing is of course similar.

 

[KittenKoder]

You are really close minded. Cheerleading is far more than "pom poms" first of all, and there are a LOT of boys in it, that's moot. So, what is to say that something is "just for boys/girls"? Really. Because of not being allowed to explore technology when I was young, I wasted 16 years of my fucking life when I turned 18 trying to "find myself" ... all thanks to my mother thinking I wasn't "acting like a girl" ... yeah, that's such a great thing. Instead of wasint my childhood arguing with her, I could have instead been finding myself then, like we as humans are suppose to, but no, she abused me instead and tried to force me to be how she "thought" I was suppose to be. Seriously, do you ever think past tomorrow?

There were not many male cheerleaders in the 80s. That was only a for instance. You have issues with your mother and abuse but don't project it onto me. This is more than the clothes to you. I know what I want my 8 year old to wear...PERIOD! You can dress your son up like a girl and send him to school to get his ass kicked if you want. That is your choice. If my son decides he wants to be gay or act like a girl, he's gonna do it with boy clothes on.

When my older boys were growing up, they went through a phase where they would not go to school wearing the clothes I could afford to buy them...in other words, generic Wal Mart and JC Penney's jeans (they refused to wear Wranglers, which are better but they hated). I explained to them, when you are buying the clothes, you can buy whatever you like...and if you want a specific thing, I'll do my best. But I'm sorry, I'm not going to be your clothing co-dependent when it comes to ridiculously overpriced status items.

It's the same with the little boys and their girly stages. I think most boys experiment with girls clothes (especially if they have a sister) and dolls and high heels. It ISN'T an indication there's a queer in there trying to get out. It's just a new awareness of things. And I don't think it bodes well for the future of ANY child to veer from your parental path to accomodate them on whatever crazy path they go down. Parents are the bedrock that secures children to earth....they should bounce back and forth, but kids do better if there's a standard and it's adhered to (provided the standard isn't a crazy one).

They can work out their sexuality issues when they're old enough to have sex, on their own time.

*yawn* Excuses. Identity is not sexuality either, that's just a really lame excuse. They are looking for their identity at that age, and none of them should be looking at their sexuality until teens anyway. Just because you think it's always about sex doesn't mean it is.

 

[Tech_Esq]

I dunno folks, but it seems like we are trivializing the events in the story. I don't think it's about what clothes the kid wants to where and I really hope this is more than soft touch parents caving to the slightest whim of an 8 year old. This is Omaha after all not San Francisco. Granted I only spent 15 years in Omaha, but it certainly wasn't the kind of place where people would get a hell of a lot of support for these kinds of actions when I was there.

And yes, little Katie will be in for a few ass whippings.

But, I really have to believe that the parents tried a few other things before they decided that kid needs to live as a girl. Although, maybe the kid just said he didn't love the Huskers. That would be grounds for gender reassignment in Nebraska.

 

[KittenKoder]

I dunno folks, but it seems like we are trivializing the events in the story. I don't think it's about what clothes the kid wants to where and I really hope this is more than soft touch parents caving to the slightest whim of an 8 year old. This is Omaha after all not San Francisco. Granted I only spent 15 years in Omaha, but it certainly wasn't the kind of place where people would get a hell of a lot of support for these kinds of actions when I was there.

And yes, little Katie will be in for a few ass whippings.

But, I really have to believe that the parents tried a few other things before they decided that kid needs to live as a girl. Although, maybe the kid just said he didn't love the Huskers. That would be grounds for gender reassignment in Nebraska.

As usual, a very well worded point.

 

[jgbkab]

So what happens if this child decides (after getting his ass kicked 35 - 40 times) that he doesn't want to be around other people anymore and the parents try to do everything they can do but he just won't go outside? Should they just say oh well, we've tried so we'll just have to keep our 8 1/2 year old inside for the rest of his life.

I think you have to be parents and protect your children from others and from themselves. They have to know the physical and verbal abuse that this child will endure. I just don't think the child is old enough to understand actions and consequences.

 

[KittenKoder]

So what happens if this child decides (after getting his ass kicked 35 - 40 times) that he doesn't want to be around other people anymore and the parents try to do everything they can do but he just won't go outside? Should they just say oh well, we've tried so we'll just have to keep our 8 1/2 year old inside for the rest of his life.

I think you have to be parents and protect your children from others and from themselves. They have to know the physical and verbal abuse that this child will endure. I just don't think the child is old enough to understand actions and consequences.

Well ... shit happens, no matter how you look at it, it's a no win situation because there is always a chance of something bad happening. When a child is forced to live the way their parents "believe" they are suppose to though, they lose touch with their family completely, and often grow to hate them. I know this for a fact.

 

[KittenKoder]

P.S.: I hate humans because of how I was treated by my family specifically, the logic is that if you can't trust family to treat you right, you can never trust other people.

 

[Tech_Esq]

So what happens if this child decides (after getting his ass kicked 35 - 40 times) that he doesn't want to be around other people anymore and the parents try to do everything they can do but he just won't go outside? Should they just say oh well, we've tried so we'll just have to keep our 8 1/2 year old inside for the rest of his life.

I think you have to be parents and protect your children from others and from themselves. They have to know the physical and verbal abuse that this child will endure. I just don't think the child is old enough to understand actions and consequences.

He definitely is not. Again, I got the impression the parents were not just reacting to the desires of the 8 yo, but had done some due diligence on their own.

If they have taken these steps with less than a few trips to the psychologist, they are idiots. Do recognize I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt. As with most news stories, there is not enough here to make a valid judgment. On hearing the complete record, I might decide they are idiots anyway.

I can't imagine the circumstances that would have led to either of my three boys wearing a skirt to school. I just can't think what it would take, but as a parent, I can say that you have to be prepared to roll with the unexpected and what life deals you. So, I'm not ruling it out as a possible path. But the burden is mighty high.

 

[AllieBaba]

I would never send my boy to school in a skirt, I don't care what school or what the reasoning.

You can be gay and still wear trousers, for Pete's sake. School clothing is all about not becoming a distraction.

That's why my kids wear sturdy, good-fitting clothes and my daughter wears t-shirts and slips. That way they're free to be whomever they want to be, and they don't have to worry about their clothing distracting people from who they are.

 

[AllieBaba]

BTW, my mom stepped in and helped with my teenaged boys who wanted to wear status/gang clothing by getting them ridiculously overpriced clothing for their birthdays and Christmas. Which personally I think was a bit of a cop out. When they were in the last years of high school, I gave them each $200 and took them to TJ Maxx...and they were A-OK with that.

Now they are both very sensible about clothing, bless their hearts, and nobody thinks I repressed their inner girl child.

 

[KittenKoder]

I would never send my boy to school in a skirt, I don't care what school or what the reasoning.

You can be gay and still wear trousers, for Pete's sake. School clothing is all about not becoming a distraction.

That's why my kids wear sturdy, good-fitting clothes and my daughter wears t-shirts and slips. That way they're free to be whomever they want to be, and they don't have to worry about their clothing distracting people from who they are.

The fact that you think the two are connected shows you know too little about identity.

 

[jgbkab]

I just can't see this under any circumstances. If not letting my son wear girl clothes is considered abuse, then I would rather him endure my abuse than the abuse from others.

KK, I feel that it was up to your parents to make it right with you. I've seen too many people (including my own family members) hold grudges to the death and wish they could have done things differently or let things go. And if my child was abused by something that I did, I feel it is my obligation to mend ties with him/her. I feel like everyone that I know has done me wrong at one point or another...friends and family members alike. And I too would hold grudges and not speak to them or avoid them until my dad died. When I went to visit him in the hospital, it was my intent to mend fences with him but the room was full and I didn't want our dirty laundry aired in front of those people and I told him that I would come back early the next morning and talk to him. I wasn't home long enough to take off my shoes before I got the call....

 

[AllieBaba]

I would never send my boy to school in a skirt, I don't care what school or what the reasoning.

You can be gay and still wear trousers, for Pete's sake. School clothing is all about not becoming a distraction.

That's why my kids wear sturdy, good-fitting clothes and my daughter wears t-shirts and slips. That way they're free to be whomever they want to be, and they don't have to worry about their clothing distracting people from who they are.

The fact that you think the two are connected shows you know too little about identity.

I have no idea what you're talking about. I think the two what are connected? I think I stated clearly that clothes should not be allowed to distract from identity...

 

[KittenKoder]

I would never send my boy to school in a skirt, I don't care what school or what the reasoning.

You can be gay and still wear trousers, for Pete's sake. School clothing is all about not becoming a distraction.

That's why my kids wear sturdy, good-fitting clothes and my daughter wears t-shirts and slips. That way they're free to be whomever they want to be, and they don't have to worry about their clothing distracting people from who they are.

The fact that you think the two are connected shows you know too little about identity.

I have no idea what you're talking about. I think the two what are connected? I think I stated clearly that clothes should not be allowed to distract from identity...

Wanting to dress in a specific fashion or style connected somehow with sexuality, that's sad really if you think so.

 

[AllieBaba]

I still have no idea what you're talking about. You're all over the place. Maybe a nap is in order?

 

[KittenKoder]

I still have no idea what you're talking about. You're all over the place. Maybe a nap is in order?

Why is it straight people always make everything about sex?

 

[Tank]

Claptrap. What you're saying is I should have allowed my children to dictate how they were raised with regards to sex.

If you did not "dictate how they were raised with regards to sex", do you think they would be homosexual today?