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All you're doing, over and over, is proving that I'm right. You prefer bad traditional education dished out at crappy schools to superior education provided at charters.
They aren't superior. That's the problem. Most of them fail badly. Few of them work. Rather then tear apart the ones that don't work it's far better to ignore the problems.
When they are forced to shut down they leave many students stranded. But, you can't even manage to pull your head out of your ass long enough to look at or repair the problems within those.
NBC4 Investigates: Taxpayers Left Holding Bill For Charter Schoo - NBC4: Columbus, Ohio News, Weather, and Sports (WCMH-TV)In 2013, 17 charter schools in Columbus closed, joining 150 other charter schools around Ohio. It's a failure rate of 29 percent.
"$1.4 billion has been spent since 2005 through school year 2012-2013 on charter schools that have never gotten any higher grade than an F or a D," Collins said.
Collins, along with Stephen Dyer of the progressive public policy think tank, Innovation Ohio, said Ohio public schools have paid too high a price to support charter schools.
"We were told at the beginning, 'We can do it cheaper and better.' And they are doing it at twice the cost and it's worse," said Dyer.
Charter schools are funded by the state on the backs of school districts and taxpayers.
Does that look successful to you?
There's more. A lot more. Do you need me to repost those as well?
All you're doing, over and over, is proving that I'm right. You prefer bad traditional education dished out at crappy schools to superior education provided at charters.
They aren't superior. That's the problem. Most of them fail badly. Few of them work. Rather then tear apart the ones that don't work it's far better to ignore the problems.
When they are forced to shut down they leave many students stranded. But, you can't even manage to pull your head out of your ass long enough to look at or repair the problems within those.
NBC4 Investigates: Taxpayers Left Holding Bill For Charter Schoo - NBC4: Columbus, Ohio News, Weather, and Sports (WCMH-TV)In 2013, 17 charter schools in Columbus closed, joining 150 other charter schools around Ohio. It's a failure rate of 29 percent.
"$1.4 billion has been spent since 2005 through school year 2012-2013 on charter schools that have never gotten any higher grade than an F or a D," Collins said.
Collins, along with Stephen Dyer of the progressive public policy think tank, Innovation Ohio, said Ohio public schools have paid too high a price to support charter schools.
"We were told at the beginning, 'We can do it cheaper and better.' And they are doing it at twice the cost and it's worse," said Dyer.
Charter schools are funded by the state on the backs of school districts and taxpayers.
Does that look successful to you?
There's more. A lot more. Do you need me to repost those as well?
First off, I simply just flat out don't believe it. I know better.
I've been to some of the charter schools here in Columbus ohio. I've seen them with my own eyes, and talked to their students face to face. When I was a Senior in high school, the kids going to these charter schools were learning in 8th grade, what I was learning in 12th.
So I just flat out don't believe what this report is saying.
Texas found evidence more in line with what I experienced.
You have to provide the decent education. Thus far it's been a failure.
What evidence do you have that shows either is better for the children?
The US Public Schools have been failing us for a long time and liberals are the first to admit it, because every time we turn around liberals are telling us the schools need more money because we need better education and test scores prove that.
If you read the 2009 Stanford study it shows they are at best equal to or failing. The update says that the remaining charter schools have made modest gains. Not what KG insinuates. I posted two other reports. I can post more.
They aren't superior. That's the problem. Most of them fail badly. Few of them work. Rather then tear apart the ones that don't work it's far better to ignore the problems.
When they are forced to shut down they leave many students stranded. But, you can't even manage to pull your head out of your ass long enough to look at or repair the problems within those.
NBC4 Investigates: Taxpayers Left Holding Bill For Charter Schoo - NBC4: Columbus, Ohio News, Weather, and Sports (WCMH-TV)
Does that look successful to you?
There's more. A lot more. Do you need me to repost those as well?
First off, I simply just flat out don't believe it. I know better.
I've been to some of the charter schools here in Columbus ohio. I've seen them with my own eyes, and talked to their students face to face. When I was a Senior in high school, the kids going to these charter schools were learning in 8th grade, what I was learning in 12th.
So I just flat out don't believe what this report is saying.
Texas found evidence more in line with what I experienced.
Just so we are clear. You are stating that the tax payers were not on the hook for 1.4 billion dollars and those schools were successes and the reason that you don't believe this is because you went to those sites. So, none of the above actually occurred. I want you on record.
They aren't superior. That's the problem. Most of them fail badly. Few of them work. Rather then tear apart the ones that don't work it's far better to ignore the problems.
When they are forced to shut down they leave many students stranded. But, you can't even manage to pull your head out of your ass long enough to look at or repair the problems within those.
NBC4 Investigates: Taxpayers Left Holding Bill For Charter Schoo - NBC4: Columbus, Ohio News, Weather, and Sports (WCMH-TV)
Does that look successful to you?
There's more. A lot more. Do you need me to repost those as well?
First off, I simply just flat out don't believe it. I know better.
I've been to some of the charter schools here in Columbus ohio. I've seen them with my own eyes, and talked to their students face to face. When I was a Senior in high school, the kids going to these charter schools were learning in 8th grade, what I was learning in 12th.
So I just flat out don't believe what this report is saying.
Texas found evidence more in line with what I experienced.
Just so we are clear. You are stating that the tax payers were not on the hook for 1.4 billion dollars and those schools were successes and the reason that you don't believe this is because you went to those sites. So, none of the above actually occurred. I want you on record.
What evidence do you have that shows either is better for the children?
The US Public Schools have been failing us for a long time and liberals are the first to admit it, because every time we turn around liberals are telling us the schools need more money because we need better education and test scores prove that.
If you read the 2009 Stanford study it shows they are at best equal to or failing. The update says that the remaining charter schools have made modest gains. Not what KG insinuates. I posted two other reports. I can post more.
So you are saying charters schools are failing more than public schools? Is that why liberals are asking for money at every turn and complain they need more money because our education system is failing?
Charter school kids consistently test higher in Math and English.
First off, I simply just flat out don't believe it. I know better.
I've been to some of the charter schools here in Columbus ohio. I've seen them with my own eyes, and talked to their students face to face. When I was a Senior in high school, the kids going to these charter schools were learning in 8th grade, what I was learning in 12th.
So I just flat out don't believe what this report is saying.
Texas found evidence more in line with what I experienced.
Just so we are clear. You are stating that the tax payers were not on the hook for 1.4 billion dollars and those schools were successes and the reason that you don't believe this is because you went to those sites. So, none of the above actually occurred. I want you on record.
When you say "those schools", do you means specifically the schools that closed? Or do you mean charter schools in general, that are still operating, and still producing better educated kids than public schools?
Again... *I HAVE BEEN* to those schools. I knew they exist, because I was there. I've talked to kids who at that time were learning stuff 4 years ahead of the public school, and I know this because I was in the public schools at that time.
As for tax payers being on the hook... remember we're talking about the parents of the students, who want their kids in better schools than the public.
Is the tax money those parents paid in, their money or not? Do you think parents should have a choice in where their kids go to school, or not? Should those parents be allowed to choose where their money goes, or not?
And just for a second, let's talk about the charter schools that closed.
You call that a failure. I call that market success.
You don't seem to understand how the market system works. A market system, doesn't promise that no business ever fails. What it promises is that bad business falls out of the market, and good business is promoted.
In the socialized government school system, no public school can fail and close. That's a failure for society. We continue to fund, massive amounts of tax money, into school systems that have absolutely horrendous education.
I would much rather have a few charter schools that did a bad job, fall out of the market and go out of business, than funding for decades on end, public schools that fail to educate.
Those charter schools that are gone, will never suck another dollar out of my wallet. Your object failure public schools, have been, and will continue to, suck dollars out of my wallet for decades. Entire generations of kids have been poorly educated thanks to your system, and at my expense.
Charter school kids consistently test higher in Math and English.
because they're hand-picked for admission, like I said.
Just so we are clear. You are stating that the tax payers were not on the hook for 1.4 billion dollars and those schools were successes and the reason that you don't believe this is because you went to those sites. So, none of the above actually occurred. I want you on record.
When you say "those schools", do you means specifically the schools that closed? Or do you mean charter schools in general, that are still operating, and still producing better educated kids than public schools?
Again... *I HAVE BEEN* to those schools. I knew they exist, because I was there. I've talked to kids who at that time were learning stuff 4 years ahead of the public school, and I know this because I was in the public schools at that time.
As for tax payers being on the hook... remember we're talking about the parents of the students, who want their kids in better schools than the public.
Is the tax money those parents paid in, their money or not? Do you think parents should have a choice in where their kids go to school, or not? Should those parents be allowed to choose where their money goes, or not?
And just for a second, let's talk about the charter schools that closed.
You call that a failure. I call that market success.
You don't seem to understand how the market system works. A market system, doesn't promise that no business ever fails. What it promises is that bad business falls out of the market, and good business is promoted.
In the socialized government school system, no public school can fail and close. That's a failure for society. We continue to fund, massive amounts of tax money, into school systems that have absolutely horrendous education.
I would much rather have a few charter schools that did a bad job, fall out of the market and go out of business, than funding for decades on end, public schools that fail to educate.
Those charter schools that are gone, will never suck another dollar out of my wallet. Your object failure public schools, have been, and will continue to, suck dollars out of my wallet for decades. Entire generations of kids have been poorly educated thanks to your system, and at my expense.
n 2010 at age 17, Al Tonyo dropped out of a vocational high school in Cleveland but still wanted a diploma.
So, he enrolled at Life Skills High School of Cleveland, one of 77 publicly funded Ohio charter schools that markets itself as a flexible alternative to traditional public schools.
Then, he dropped out again.
Tonyo was no exception.
Charter schools such as Life Skills, operated by Akron-based White Hat Management and targeting dropouts, are sending Ohio spinning off in the wrong direction. Dropout rates nationally are on the decline, but Ohios rate is on the rise.
Granted, some dropout charter schools graduate nearly half of their students on time, a notable feat considering students enter these programs at least a year behind their peers in traditional high schools.
But thats not the norm.
Many dropout charter schools, including White Hats chain of Life Skills centers, consistently report single-digit graduation rates. Over the course of last school year, more students dropped out of Life Skills than attended on the average day.
Together, they are dragging down the states overall rate.
After charter schools received the largest funding boosts per pupil in the most recent state budget, state legislators are toying with the idea of giving them more money to fix Ohios dropout problem at a time when charter schools are reporting record-high dropout rates.
Unmotivated students
My parents had high hopes for me, Tonyo, now 22, said. But I wasnt able to grasp the bigger picture.
Tonyo said he lacked motivation, and it didnt help to be surrounded by fellow dropouts who shared his lack of enthusiasm.
It was a whole big negative experience. I didnt even want to be there, he said of his time at Life Skills.
Sixteen years ago, drop-out recovery charter schools didnt exist. Now they enroll roughly 14,000 teenagers and young adults, mostly in cities with high poverty and unemployment.
These students may be prone to dropping out. But charter schools especially struggle to retain and graduate them.
The state counts a dropout as an event, not as a person. If one student drops out three times in one year, that is three dropouts. It happens, a lot.
In the 2012-13 school year, more than 5,300 dropouts a quarter of all Ohio dropouts that year attended one of two online charter schools: the Electronic Classroom of Tomorrow or Ohio Virtual Academy. Collectively, these two charter schools have a dropout rate 45 times higher than traditional public schools, and 10 times higher than the states eight largest city school districts.
Another 6,829 students * about a third of all Ohio dropouts attended charter schools designed specifically for dropouts, among them Invictus and Life Skills. Last year, these dropout charter schools enrolled one percent of Ohios public school students but accounted for roughly the same number of dropout events as did public district schools, which enrolled 91 percent of Ohios students.
Ohio?s charter school dropouts soar, push state in opposite direction of U.S. - Local - Ohio
That free market? It ain't free.
When you say "those schools", do you means specifically the schools that closed? Or do you mean charter schools in general, that are still operating, and still producing better educated kids than public schools?
Again... *I HAVE BEEN* to those schools. I knew they exist, because I was there. I've talked to kids who at that time were learning stuff 4 years ahead of the public school, and I know this because I was in the public schools at that time.
As for tax payers being on the hook... remember we're talking about the parents of the students, who want their kids in better schools than the public.
Is the tax money those parents paid in, their money or not? Do you think parents should have a choice in where their kids go to school, or not? Should those parents be allowed to choose where their money goes, or not?
And just for a second, let's talk about the charter schools that closed.
You call that a failure. I call that market success.
You don't seem to understand how the market system works. A market system, doesn't promise that no business ever fails. What it promises is that bad business falls out of the market, and good business is promoted.
In the socialized government school system, no public school can fail and close. That's a failure for society. We continue to fund, massive amounts of tax money, into school systems that have absolutely horrendous education.
I would much rather have a few charter schools that did a bad job, fall out of the market and go out of business, than funding for decades on end, public schools that fail to educate.
Those charter schools that are gone, will never suck another dollar out of my wallet. Your object failure public schools, have been, and will continue to, suck dollars out of my wallet for decades. Entire generations of kids have been poorly educated thanks to your system, and at my expense.
n 2010 at age 17, Al Tonyo dropped out of a vocational high school in Cleveland but still wanted a diploma.
So, he enrolled at Life Skills High School of Cleveland, one of 77 publicly funded Ohio charter schools that markets itself as a flexible alternative to traditional public schools.
Then, he dropped out again.
Tonyo was no exception.
Charter schools such as Life Skills, operated by Akron-based White Hat Management and targeting dropouts, are sending Ohio spinning off in the wrong direction. Dropout rates nationally are on the decline, but Ohios rate is on the rise.
Granted, some dropout charter schools graduate nearly half of their students on time, a notable feat considering students enter these programs at least a year behind their peers in traditional high schools.
But thats not the norm.
Many dropout charter schools, including White Hats chain of Life Skills centers, consistently report single-digit graduation rates. Over the course of last school year, more students dropped out of Life Skills than attended on the average day.
Together, they are dragging down the states overall rate.
After charter schools received the largest funding boosts per pupil in the most recent state budget, state legislators are toying with the idea of giving them more money to fix Ohios dropout problem at a time when charter schools are reporting record-high dropout rates.
Unmotivated students
My parents had high hopes for me, Tonyo, now 22, said. But I wasnt able to grasp the bigger picture.
Tonyo said he lacked motivation, and it didnt help to be surrounded by fellow dropouts who shared his lack of enthusiasm.
It was a whole big negative experience. I didnt even want to be there, he said of his time at Life Skills.
Sixteen years ago, drop-out recovery charter schools didnt exist. Now they enroll roughly 14,000 teenagers and young adults, mostly in cities with high poverty and unemployment.
These students may be prone to dropping out. But charter schools especially struggle to retain and graduate them.
The state counts a dropout as an event, not as a person. If one student drops out three times in one year, that is three dropouts. It happens, a lot.
In the 2012-13 school year, more than 5,300 dropouts a quarter of all Ohio dropouts that year attended one of two online charter schools: the Electronic Classroom of Tomorrow or Ohio Virtual Academy. Collectively, these two charter schools have a dropout rate 45 times higher than traditional public schools, and 10 times higher than the states eight largest city school districts.
Another 6,829 students * about a third of all Ohio dropouts attended charter schools designed specifically for dropouts, among them Invictus and Life Skills. Last year, these dropout charter schools enrolled one percent of Ohios public school students but accounted for roughly the same number of dropout events as did public district schools, which enrolled 91 percent of Ohios students.
Ohio?s charter school dropouts soar, push state in opposite direction of U.S. - Local - Ohio
That free market? It ain't free.
So an unmotivated student, that dropped out of public school, dropped out of charter school? So drop outs drop out.
First off, I simply just flat out don't believe it. I know better.
I've been to some of the charter schools here in Columbus ohio. I've seen them with my own eyes, and talked to their students face to face. When I was a Senior in high school, the kids going to these charter schools were learning in 8th grade, what I was learning in 12th.
So I just flat out don't believe what this report is saying.
Texas found evidence more in line with what I experienced.
Just so we are clear. You are stating that the tax payers were not on the hook for 1.4 billion dollars and those schools were successes and the reason that you don't believe this is because you went to those sites. So, none of the above actually occurred. I want you on record.
Heres a link to prove the opposite of what you claim.
New Study Shows Better Results For Public Charter School Students Compared To Students In Conventional ... [Michigan Capitol Confidential]
I can't say for sure which is better because each of these studies have money and agendas behind them.
I don't think public schools are any better than charters, that said, charter schools I don't think are any better than public schools, of course neither you or I have the unbiased data, because we both come up with sources either way.
Now, I don't think teachers have a right to tenure, there are some really bad teachers that need to get out of the schools. That said, there are some really good teachers that need rewarded.
Also how many of the rich liberal democrats have their children in the public school system? We know that Biden's kids, Obama's kids, Clinton's kids, the Kennedys all went to private schools, the only exception was Carter.
If public schools are so great, why do liberal elites choose private over public?
That's the follow up to the 2009 study. It shows the small gains.
