If this board is any

[Intense]

What I think is that Your perception of Locke and American History is out of context and Jaded. You are Still arguing a false premise that confuses Private Property with Real Estate. Possessions are Private Property. Currency is Private Property.

Absurd. Currency is not private property or even property at all. If currency is private property, start destroying greenbacks in front of the treasury department and see what happens. If currency was private property, wages couldn't be garnished and items could not be repossessed. Every person is allowed to accumulate currency, but it is still under the control of the government. That's why there are all those funny numbers on it.

If this is going to digress into some sort of weird tax-protester digression, I'll know we have jumped the shark.

At any rate, it might be your belief that your money is "private property" but it is most certainly not the belief of our laws. Since we are a nation of laws, your opinion doesn't trump the law.

To own Real Estate, One needed the Purchase price. It was not an entitlement, nor did the lack of Ownership deny One the Justice. Your Perception is Jaded and Biased. Your understanding of the 3/5th's for the Census is over simplified and out of context, again Jaded.

You keep dodging the very plain fact by calling me "jaded". Your position is that we should return our country to the "Lockian" perspective. My point is that it never existed to begin with. Again, the fact is (which historians agree with) is that our founding fathers did not believe everyone was entitled to property.

Your silly insults about my inability to comprehend the issue are absurd, especially when you keep deflecting away from my basic points. You have said nothing that I haven't grasped, I have just pointed out that your logic and beliefs are flawed in the context of history.

You don't fight well on your heels.

It is obvious You have No concept of Unalienable Right, Enumerated Power, or Due Process. Your ramblings are evident of a poor education. You have no concept of Principle or Ideal in It's relation to the forming of Society. The only delusion is Your failure to recognize offense, on Individual Members of Society, and Your failure to address Government's problem with over stepping It's Authority.

I deflect? When Money is in Your pocket, it is Your property. When You own Possessions, be it a car now, or a horse then, it is protected under civil law. Your argument is absurd. You are either knowingly or unknowingly arguing that all possessions, all form of property are the possession of the State. What You suggest is Totalitarian.

A person enters into Society with Possessions, they are Property, They are not Surrendered to the State, neither is His Purse.

You should stay away from the term "Logic", You have yet to earn the right to associate with it in any way.

 

[Intense]

What I think is that Your perception of Locke and American History is out of context and Jaded. You are Still arguing a false premise that confuses Private Property with Real Estate. Possessions are Private Property. Currency is Private Property.

Absurd. Currency is not private property or even property at all. If currency is private property, start destroying greenbacks in front of the treasury department and see what happens. If currency was private property, wages couldn't be garnished and items could not be repossessed. Every person is allowed to accumulate currency, but it is still under the control of the government. That's why there are all those funny numbers on it.

If this is going to digress into some sort of weird tax-protester digression, I'll know we have jumped the shark.

At any rate, it might be your belief that your money is "private property" but it is most certainly not the belief of our laws. Since we are a nation of laws, your opinion doesn't trump the law.

To own Real Estate, One needed the Purchase price. It was not an entitlement, nor did the lack of Ownership deny One the Justice. Your Perception is Jaded and Biased. Your understanding of the 3/5th's for the Census is over simplified and out of context, again Jaded.

You keep dodging the very plain fact by calling me "jaded". Your position is that we should return our country to the "Lockian" perspective. My point is that it never existed to begin with. Again, the fact is (which historians agree with) is that our founding fathers did not believe everyone was entitled to property.

Your silly insults about my inability to comprehend the issue are absurd, especially when you keep deflecting away from my basic points. You have said nothing that I haven't grasped, I have just pointed out that your logic and beliefs are flawed in the context of history.

You don't fight well on your heels.

Your position is that we should return our country to the "Lockian" perspective.
Show Me where That was claimed, other than by You? I respect Locke, and credit Him for much of Our Foundation. Yet His Philosophy was based in Christ. There is a Heavenly Kingdom, and an Earthly Kingdom, the gap between the two, is not a Justification to Steal, or defraud. The Ideal, is worthy of the struggle. That is not delusion. You deny the Power and Right of the Individual, against the abuse of Society or Government, by Right of the Government's Existence and ability. I Defend the Right of the Individual, by Reason of Being, and say, show cause before obstructing. Government by the consent of the Governed. Due Process. Your Possessions are Your Property.

 

[geauxtohell]

What I think is that Your perception of Locke and American History is out of context and Jaded. You are Still arguing a false premise that confuses Private Property with Real Estate. Possessions are Private Property. Currency is Private Property.

Absurd. Currency is not private property or even property at all. If currency is private property, start destroying greenbacks in front of the treasury department and see what happens. If currency was private property, wages couldn't be garnished and items could not be repossessed. Every person is allowed to accumulate currency, but it is still under the control of the government. That's why there are all those funny numbers on it.

If this is going to digress into some sort of weird tax-protester digression, I'll know we have jumped the shark.

At any rate, it might be your belief that your money is "private property" but it is most certainly not the belief of our laws. Since we are a nation of laws, your opinion doesn't trump the law.

To own Real Estate, One needed the Purchase price. It was not an entitlement, nor did the lack of Ownership deny One the Justice. Your Perception is Jaded and Biased. Your understanding of the 3/5th's for the Census is over simplified and out of context, again Jaded.

You keep dodging the very plain fact by calling me "jaded". Your position is that we should return our country to the "Lockian" perspective. My point is that it never existed to begin with. Again, the fact is (which historians agree with) is that our founding fathers did not believe everyone was entitled to property.

Your silly insults about my inability to comprehend the issue are absurd, especially when you keep deflecting away from my basic points. You have said nothing that I haven't grasped, I have just pointed out that your logic and beliefs are flawed in the context of history.

You don't fight well on your heels.

Your position is that we should return our country to the "Lockian" perspective.
Show Me where That was claimed, other than by You? I respect Locke, and credit Him for much of Our Foundation. Yet His Philosophy was based in Christ. There is a Heavenly Kingdom, and an Earthly Kingdom, the gap between the two, is not a Justification to Steal, or defraud. The Ideal, is worthy of the struggle. That is not delusion. You deny the Power and Right of the Individual, against the abuse of Society or Government, by Right of the Government's Existence and ability. I Defend the Right of the Individual, by Reason of Being, and say, show cause before obstructing. Government by the consent of the Governed. Due Process. Your Possessions are Your Property.

What abuses?

 

[geauxtohell]

The simple fact is the only way to have a chance to end slavery was to count slaves that way, other wise the souths representative power would have made it impossible to achieve in any timeline.

I am well aware of that. The issue at hand here is why the founding fathers would not adapt Locke's mantra of "life, liberty, and property". The view held by historians is that it was not their belief that every man was entitled to property.

I also dispute your notion that the founding fathers were interested in ending slavery.

The larger point is that the country that Intense wants to revert to never really existed. It's an abstract idea.

I am also waiting to see how anyone's rights have been infringed upon by the government.

I posted a list of how, you dismissed it with a shrug.
The Kabuki dance is over.
You are fact proofed.

You listed every tax that you are responsible for. You may feel that taxes infringe on your rights, but that was never the position of the founders. You are not taxed without representation.

So you can whine about it if you want, but the rest of the world will keep on turning.

 

[Intense]

Absurd. Currency is not private property or even property at all. If currency is private property, start destroying greenbacks in front of the treasury department and see what happens. If currency was private property, wages couldn't be garnished and items could not be repossessed. Every person is allowed to accumulate currency, but it is still under the control of the government. That's why there are all those funny numbers on it.

If this is going to digress into some sort of weird tax-protester digression, I'll know we have jumped the shark.

At any rate, it might be your belief that your money is "private property" but it is most certainly not the belief of our laws. Since we are a nation of laws, your opinion doesn't trump the law.



You keep dodging the very plain fact by calling me "jaded". Your position is that we should return our country to the "Lockian" perspective. My point is that it never existed to begin with. Again, the fact is (which historians agree with) is that our founding fathers did not believe everyone was entitled to property.

Your silly insults about my inability to comprehend the issue are absurd, especially when you keep deflecting away from my basic points. You have said nothing that I haven't grasped, I have just pointed out that your logic and beliefs are flawed in the context of history.

You don't fight well on your heels.

Your position is that we should return our country to the "Lockian" perspective.
Show Me where That was claimed, other than by You? I respect Locke, and credit Him for much of Our Foundation. Yet His Philosophy was based in Christ. There is a Heavenly Kingdom, and an Earthly Kingdom, the gap between the two, is not a Justification to Steal, or defraud. The Ideal, is worthy of the struggle. That is not delusion. You deny the Power and Right of the Individual, against the abuse of Society or Government, by Right of the Government's Existence and ability. I Defend the Right of the Individual, by Reason of Being, and say, show cause before obstructing. Government by the consent of the Governed. Due Process. Your Possessions are Your Property.

What abuses?

Your position is that Government is without flaw or fault? Our Government has not once had a misstep, a mistake? You are delusional.

 

[Intense]

I am well aware of that. The issue at hand here is why the founding fathers would not adapt Locke's mantra of "life, liberty, and property". The view held by historians is that it was not their belief that every man was entitled to property.

I also dispute your notion that the founding fathers were interested in ending slavery.

The larger point is that the country that Intense wants to revert to never really existed. It's an abstract idea.

I am also waiting to see how anyone's rights have been infringed upon by the government.

I posted a list of how, you dismissed it with a shrug.
The Kabuki dance is over.
You are fact proofed.

You listed every tax that you are responsible for. You may feel that taxes infringe on your rights, but that was never the position of the founders. You are not taxed without representation.

So you can whine about it if you want, but the rest of the world will keep on turning.

You deny Personal Property. You argue that because the People are taxed, personal property doesn't exist. Personal Property existed before Government existed.

You now project that I am anti-taxation. You are an ass.

 

[geauxtohell]

Your position is that Government is without flaw or fault? Our Government has not once had a misstep, a mistake? You are delusional.

Obviously not, since I gave an example of a recent flaw made by the government.

Do try and keep up.

In the meantime, please tell me how your rights have been infringed upon by an oppressive government.

 

[geauxtohell]

You deny Personal Property. You argue that because the People are taxed, personal property doesn't exist. Personal Property existed before Government existed.

You now project that I am anti-taxation. You are an ass.

No, I deny that money is "personal property". I gave examples of why it is not. You ignored them. You seem to think you have the power of fiat in this matter.

I didn't project anything, I speculated that you were about to use "money is personal property" as an argument against taxation. If that is not the case, then feel free to state your actual position.

For such a great intellect, you sure are easy to offend.

 

[Intense]

Your position is that Government is without flaw or fault? Our Government has not once had a misstep, a mistake? You are delusional.

Obviously not, since I gave an example of a recent flaw made by the government.

Do try and keep up.

In the meantime, please tell me how your rights have been infringed upon by an oppressive government.

There are too many to number, some justified, some not. Fool.

 

[Intense]

You deny Personal Property. You argue that because the People are taxed, personal property doesn't exist. Personal Property existed before Government existed.

You now project that I am anti-taxation. You are an ass.

No, I deny that money is "personal property". I gave examples of why it is not. You ignored them. You seem to think you have the power of fiat in this matter.

I didn't project anything, I speculated that you were about to use "money is personal property" as an argument against taxation. If that is not the case, then feel free to state your actual position.

For such a great intellect, you sure are easy to offend.

You go far beyond claiming that money is not personal property. You have no concept of what Personal Property is. Do You think that everything belongs to the State, and It just loans it to Us?
When My money is in My Wallet, I dare You to lay claim to it. The State has a place for Those unable to know the difference between right and wrong, and act on it. Your argument is false, It fails fails to progress. The State obviously respects the pockets of It's Citizens more than You do. I know that I said You should never teach American History, I feel that You should Never seek employment at the IRS, You might trigger another Revolution.

I have no interest in arguing against Taxation. I'm a Federalist in the Madison sense. You were wrong to speculate. I believe in a Government that reflects on the will of the People. Government by consent, by design, enumerated in Power, capable of fulfilling It's responsibility to the Society. The Government exists to Serve a function. The Society adds and removes Powers as It see's fit. Government, by design, produces or manufactures pretty much next to nothing, that makes It Socialist in how it acquires It's means, to function and pay It's debts. We are taxed to cover that cost. That it is also imperative to qualify that expense is obvious. Our Government is accountable to Each and Every One of Us, collectively and Individually, for direction, cost, process, competency, and results. Where there is found abuse or misuse, there is a reasonable claim for resolution. Every unnecessary Penney spent adds to the debt and the interest it accrues. This has effected All of Our Freedoms and Life Styles.

 

[geauxtohell]

You go far beyond claiming that money is not personal property. You have no concept of what Personal Property is. Do You think that everything belongs to the State, and It just loans it to Us?

When it comes to currency, which you bizarrely think is "personal property", the note is secured by the government and is ultimately regulated and controlled by the government. Citizens can possess money, but it is not the same thing as private property.

When My money is in My Wallet, I dare You to lay claim to it. The State has a place for Those unable to know the difference between right and wrong, and act on it.

More absurdity. If I, as a private citizen, took your money; that would be theft. I never claimed I was personally entitled to your cash. Your reading comprehension either sucks or you are being deliberately obtuse.

That doesn't mean that the government can't take your money from you via taxes, wage garnishment, bankruptcy, etc.

But hey, I am game. Feel free to cite any case law that equates money to private property status.

I am having a hard time wrapping my mind around the notion that currency is property.

Your argument is false, It fails fails to progress. The State obviously respects the pockets of It's Citizens more than You do. I know that I said You should never teach American History, I feel that You should Never seek employment at the IRS, You might trigger another Revolution.

Stop acting like a jackass. You've obviously (and I feel intentionally) misconstrued my statements to make it seem like I believe that I have a right to pick your pocket. I don't believe that, so that non-sense can stop now. Again, I have no desire to work for the IRS or teach. I am a medical student. If all goes as planned, I will be a physician.

I have no interest in arguing against Taxation. I'm a Federalist in the Madison sense. You were wrong to speculate.

I would apologize if you hadn't spent the entire thread projecting and speculating about what I believe, my values system, and what line of employment I am fit for.

I believe in a Government that reflects on the will of the People. Government by consent, by design, enumerated in Power, capable of fulfilling It's responsibility to the Society. The Government exists to Serve a function. The Society adds and removes Powers as It see's fit. Government, by design, produces or manufactures pretty much next to nothing, that makes It Socialist in how it acquires It's means, to function and pay It's debts. We are taxed to cover that cost. That it is also imperative to qualify that expense is obvious. Our Government is accountable to Each and Every One of Us, collectively and Individually, for direction, cost, process, competency, and results. Where there is found abuse or misuse, there is a reasonable claim for resolution. Every unnecessary Penney spent adds to the debt and the interest it accrues. This has effected All of Our Freedoms and Life Styles.

I don't disagree with that.

You've still yet to outline a single "abuse" or infringement upon rights. Hell, I even provided one: the Kelo decision.

I am beginning to suspect that you are blowing smoke and are basically a rebel without a real cause.

Again, "Life, liberty, and property" was never the deal or vision of the founders of this country.

 

[geauxtohell]

Your position is that Government is without flaw or fault? Our Government has not once had a misstep, a mistake? You are delusional.

Obviously not, since I gave an example of a recent flaw made by the government.

Do try and keep up.

In the meantime, please tell me how your rights have been infringed upon by an oppressive government.

There are too many to number, some justified, some not. Fool.

And you can't even list a couple?

In other words, you are either too lazy to support your point or you got nada.

 

[Intense]

DoubleSpeak: When it comes to currency, which you bizarrely think is "personal property", the note is secured by the government and is ultimately regulated and controlled by the government. Citizens can possess money, but it is not the same thing as private property.

It is Regulated by the Government, asshole. When in Your possession, it is owned by You, it is Your Property.

Double Speak: More absurdity. If I, as a private citizen, took your money; that would be theft. I never claimed I was personally entitled to your cash. Your reading comprehension either sucks or you are being deliberately obtuse.

That doesn't mean that the government can't take your money from you via taxes, wage garnishment, bankruptcy, etc.

But hey, I am game. Feel free to cite any case law that equates money to private property status.

I am having a hard time wrapping my mind around the notion that currency is property.


How could it be My money according to what You say?

You really do have a problem with Rule of Law and Due Process.

You should stick to medicine.

 

[Intense]

Obviously not, since I gave an example of a recent flaw made by the government.

Do try and keep up.

In the meantime, please tell me how your rights have been infringed upon by an oppressive government.

There are too many to number, some justified, some not. Fool.

And you can't even list a couple?

In other words, you are either too lazy to support your point or you got nada.

You have Yet to earn a right to that answer. Your Insurance, Tax, Regulation, mandate, Retroactive Tax- Fee-Penalties-Surcharges days are still ahead of You, enjoy. IRS,EPA,DOE, HUD, the Gang that couldn't shoot straight. Neither do You.