If God is the Father...Who is the Mother?

[Gracie]

I started this thread in this forum for one reason: NO TROLLING. Too bad this rule cannot apply to the religion forum. So, here it is.

I was just wondering about this topic. I found a few things on the net but I wound up cross eyed and more confused than I planned. Some said "Mother Earth" but that seems kinda weird. Is God both Father and Mother but He is used instead of She because women are second place to men or something? The time of books written, it was/is "a man's world", or passages that state "HE made man out of HIS image", Father this, Father that, and similar phrases?

So, you are taught by parents who were taught who were also taught by theirs and on and on it goes. But in your heart...what do you think? Is there an unknown Goddess not spoken of? Or is He a She as well?

REMEMBER..YOU ARE IN THE LOUNGE. No snarky comments, please.

 

[Gracie]

I found these and I got the deer in headlights look. So I am hoping @TheIrishRam can assist me in making sense of it all.

First of all, the Bible says both men and women were made in His image. In Genesis 1:27 where we read, "And God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them."

Secondly, we are taught in John 4 that God is Spirit and does not reside in a physical body. So he's not literally, biologically a male. Strictly speaking, man's physical body is not patterned after a physical appearance of God. But our bodies do reflect God's image insofar as being one in substance. God as a trinity is one being, acting with as much unity as our soul acts with our body. When we speak of being made in God's image, we refer to things like our rationality, free will, intelligence, as well as our comprehension of good and evil. Also, a huge way in which the image of God manifests itself in us is that only man can be aware of God and is capable of fellowshipping with Him.

Even though God is not physically male, there are, however, two reasons for using the exclusive use of masculine pronouns and imagery for Him. One issue is whether we have the authority to change the of God used by Christ and the Bible. The traditional defense of masculine imagery for God rests on the premise (which I'm sure you reject) that the Bible is divine revelation, not culturally relative, negotiable and changeable. As C.S. Lewis put it, "Christians believe that God himself has told us how to speak of him."

The other reason for calling God "he" is historical. Except for Judaism, all other known anchient religions had goddesses as well as gods. The Jewish revelation was distinctive in its exclusively masculine pronoun because it was distinctive in its theology of the divine transcendence. That seems to be the point of the masculine imagery. As a man comes into a woman from without to make her pregnant, so God creates the universe from without rather than birthing it form within and impregnates our souls with Grace or supernatural life from without. As a woman cannot impregnate herself, so the universe cannot create itself, nor can the soul redeem itself.

There is an inherant connection between these two radically distinctive features of Judaism, Christianity and Islam: their unique view of a transcendent God creating nature out of nothing and their refusal to call God "she" despite the fact that Scripture ascribes to Him feminine attributes like compassionate nursing (Is.49:15), motherly comfort (Is.66:13) and carrying an infant (Is.46:3). So the masculine pronoun safguards (1) the transcendence of God against the illusioun that nature is born from God as a mother rather than created and (2) the grace of God against the illusion that we can somehow save ourselves - two illusiouns widely present and inevitable in the history of religion.

 

[Gracie]

And then this doozy. One eye was stuck to the left of the socket, the other eye was rolling around in confusion:

From the first covenant, Yahweh presented an image of a harsh, daunting God. His character almost demanded the birth of an entity like Shekhina. Also, He could not be seen by human eyes, and only a few prophets heard His voice. Yet almost every religion shows that human nature seeks intimacy with a deity. The manifestation of a loving maternal entity, ready to defend her people even from God Himself, brings a feeling of comfort that a paternal, invisible entity like Yahweh cannot bestow upon His worshippers. Shekhina represented compassion in its purest form, and despite being, officially, the female side of God, she was visible and audible as a feminine entity in her own right. A beautiful being of light, whose most important function was to intercede with God on behalf of her children. Such an entity had to come into being to soften the harshness of the original Judaism.

But how did such a complex entity develop? It started with the changing of God's dwelling. During Biblical times, people assumed God dwelled in the clouds. When the Israelites built the desert Tabernacle, and later, Solomon's Temple, Yahweh descended in a cloud and dwelt there. The word Shekhina, in Hebrew, is derived from the Biblical verb shakhan, meaning "the act of dwelling" but taking the feminine form. Therefore, at the beginning of the Talmudic era, the word Shekhina meant the aspect of God that dwelt among people and could be apprehended by the senses. For example, one Talmudic verse said: "Let them make Me a sanctuary that I may dwell (ve'shakhanti) among them." However, in a later version, the translation said "Let them make Me a Sanctuary so that My Shekhina will dwell among them." In other words, a separate entity.

Slowly, the manifested entity became stronger. A complete distinction appears in a Talmudic quotation from the end of the 1st century BCE: "...while the Children of Israel were still in Egypt, the Holy One, blessed be He, stipulated that He would liberate them from Egypt only in order that they built him a Sanctuary so that He can let His Shekhina dwell among them... As soon as the Tabernacle was erected, the Shekhina descended and dwelt among them." Another quotation from early 3rd century says: "On that day a thing came about which had never existed since the creation of the world. From the creation of the world and up to that hour the Shekhina had never dwelt among the lower beings. But from the time that the Tabernacle was erected, she did dwell among them."

Another tradition claimed that she had always dwelt among her people, but their sins drove her, on and off, into Heaven. However, she was drawn back to her children and tried to save them, over and over. By that time, her image was so ingrained into real historical events, that when the Jews were exiled to Babylonia, she transferred her seat there, and appeared alternately in two major synagogues. She often made herself visible to the congregations there, particularly in one synagogue, which was built of stones and dust taken from a holy place in Jerusalem.

As the Jews dispersed further, sightings occurred in Italy, Spain, Germany, Poland, Russia - in every town where Jews lived. Shekhina comforted the sick, the poor, the suffering, and had a particular concern for repentant sinners "These are accepted by the Shekhina as if they were righteous and pious persons who never sinned. They are carried aloft and seated next to the Shekhina...he whose heart is broken and whose spirit is low, and whose mouth rarely utters a word, the Shekhina walks with him every day...".

The paradox of dwelling in one place, and being in various places and with many people at the same time, had to be resolved. The Talmud reconciled the two ideas beautifully in a well-known anecdote. "The Emperor said to Raban Gamaliel: ‘You say that wherever ten men are assembled, the Shekhina dwells among them. How many Shekhinas are there?' Thereupon Raban Gamaliel beckoned a servant and began to beat him, saying: ‘Why did you let the sun enter the Emperor's house?' ‘Have you gone mad?' said the Emperor, surprised at the violence of the usually gentle Raban Gamaliel, ‘the sun shines all over the world!' ‘If the sun,' answered Gamaliel ‘which is only one of a thousand myriad servants of God, shines all over the world, how much more so the Shekhina of God!"

As time went by, her position strengthened. An interesting Medieval anecdote shows the Shekhina as a total separate entity, in her most important role - interceding on behalf of her children. "The Shekhina comes to the defense of sinful Israel by saying first to Israel: ‘Be not a witness against thy neighbor without a cause' and then thereafter saying to God: ‘Say not: I will do to him as he hath done to me..' " This is obviously a conversation taking place among three distinct entities - Israel, God, and the Shekhina. Another significant passage from the 11th century, describes Rabbi Akiva (a second century sage) saying: "When the Holy One, blessed be He, considered the deeds of the generation of Enoch and that they were spoiled and evil, He removed Himself and His Shekhina from their midst and ascended into the heights with blasts of trumpets..."

Like any good mother, she could punish too. When she behaved violently, her character came closer to her powerful aspect of the great Asherah, Yahweh's Canaanite Consort. She descended to Earth to punish Adam, Eve, and the Serpent when they sinned at the Garden of Eden. She confused the builders of the Tower of Babel. She drowned the Egyptians at the Red Sea crossing during Exodus. When needed, she even killed righteous people. Since the beginning of time, six people -- Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Aaron, and Miriam -- could not be taken by the Angel of Death because of their perfect purity. Someone had to bring their souls to Heaven, and only Shekhina could do that. By kissing them, she released their souls from bondage to this world. In a particularly touching story, after kissing and releasing Moses' soul, she carried his body for a long distance on her wings, to his secret grave. This myth connects Shekhina to another ancient goddess, Anath. According to the legends, Moses had to live apart from his wife so that he would always be pure enough to communicate with the Shekhina. This gave rise to the curious myth, later elaborated on in the Kabbalah, that Moses and Shekhina lived as husband and wife. The image of Shekhina, carrying the dead body of her husband to his final resting place, resembles the myth of Anath, carrying the body of her husband Baal to his burial place.

 

[The Great Goose]

Satan is the mother.

 

[JustAnotherNut]

I don't know about all that & I can see why you're confused too. Sorry, but I'm not going to read it all to figure it out. I can only speak from my own experience & point of view. I was not 'raised in the church', in fact about as far from it as you can get. I came to it of my own free will as an adult, after having gone thru my own personal hell, so to speak. Some bizarre incidences, surviving things without a scratch when I should have been dead and finally having a 'life after death' experience I finally had to admit there was something more than what I could see, hear, taste, smell or feel. "Something' much larger than myself and even the world itself as I knew it. I know my Redeemer lives and He lives in me.
Anyway, to answer about God being the Father & who is the mother question. According to the Bible, since God created man from the earth & woman was formed by God from mans rib, God is the Father as Creator. In Christianity there is no mother at creation, God & some woman didn't have sex, her go thru 9 months of pregnancy & give birth. That is the human way & God is not human & not subject to human desires, frailties, or needs. Nor is God man, or man-like. He has no body as we would understand, but more like a Spirit.

But to describe in words what God is? Is difficult. God is the thunder during the storm, the pain in heartbreak, the struggle in indecision, sand between your toes,
the breeze rustling thru leaves. He is the squeal of delight of a child on Christmas morning, the tears of mourning the loss of a loved one. He is all things and His love for us is greater than anything we can even imagine.

 

[Gracie]

What did you see in your NDE? Do you want to share it or is it too personal?

 

[JustAnotherNut]

Not anything like you hear about. I didn't see a bright light at the end of some tunnel or loved ones lost. I was just 'in' the light and that light was the greatest love and acceptance. The essence of knowing that for all the wrong I had done, it was okay, I was loved and nothing else mattered. People argue over such trivial things & make such a big deal over nothing that if they knew what it was really like, it would truly be a peaceful world.
It's difficult to describe because words just don't give it justice. Kinda like standing in a thick blanket of pure white Light and that Light is pure Love and it seeps deep into the darkest corners of your soul.
One thing is for sure, before this I had been absolutely terrified of dying & would even hyperventilate when at a hospital, even to visit others. I couldn't stay long, somehow hospitals represented death to me. After this experience, I was no longer afraid & would even now welcome it....well, maybe not just yet. There are still things I want to do & life to live...but I think you understand what I mean.

 

[Penelope]

Earth, Mother Earth.

 

[Boss]

Mother Nature! Haven't you heard, it's not nice to fool Mother Nature?

 

[OZman]

I started this thread in this forum for one reason: NO TROLLING. Too bad this rule cannot apply to the religion forum. So, here it is.

I was just wondering about this topic. I found a few things on the net but I wound up cross eyed and more confused than I planned. Some said "Mother Earth" but that seems kinda weird. Is God both Father and Mother but He is used instead of She because women are second place to men or something? The time of books written, it was/is "a man's world", or passages that state "HE made man out of HIS image", Father this, Father that, and similar phrases?

So, you are taught by parents who were taught who were also taught by theirs and on and on it goes. But in your heart...what do you think? Is there an unknown Goddess not spoken of? Or is He a She as well?

REMEMBER..YOU ARE IN THE LOUNGE. No snarky comments, please.

From the book of Job.

 

[Care4all]

didn't read what was pasted yet, but there are some older scripts that have God with a wife and I believe she even had a name....now i need to google it...or maybe you already pasted stuff about it....?

 

[Gracie]

I think the second post has her name in it. Not sure.

Just looked.
Shekhina

 

[ABikerSailor]

Nothing gave birth to Something........

And the Something gave birth to the 10,000 things.

Something gave birth to Father (which I call God), which means we all came from something.

I just wish that people would realize that we all come from the same stuff.

As some physicists would say, "we all come from stardust".

 

[Boss]

As some physicists would say, "we all come from stardust".

Ah... but the problem is when we look at the stardust on a subatomic level.

 

[jon_berzerk]

Asherah

 

[Gracie]

She isn't mentioned in the bible, is she? And..was she, HE, but the ones that decided which books would be included in what is now the bible ...did they decide to leave her out of any mention that could have been written about because during that time, women were looked upon like what Muslims thinks of their women to this day. SOMEONE decided which gospels would make it into the final book. So...what else has been left out?

 

[Gracie]

Or...did God appear as a She at that time she was mentioned wherever she was mentioned?
So confusing.

 

[Boss]

She isn't mentioned in the bible, is she? And..was she, HE, but the ones that decided which books would be included in what is now the bible ...did they decide to leave her out of any mention that could have been written about because during that time, women were looked upon like what Muslims thinks of their women to this day. SOMEONE decided which gospels would make it into the final book. So...what else has been left out?

You do understand the Bible isn't God's memoirs or autobiography... right?

 

[Gracie]

I understand the Bible is just a book, written by man, who claim it is God's words.

 

[Boss]

I understand the Bible is just a book, written by man, who claim it is God's words.

Okay, just making sure... 'cause it sounded like you thought there might have been some kind of conspiratorial cover-up and men decided not to tell us the truth about God being a woman.

For the record, I don't think God is a male or female. The perception of God in the Bible is presented as male because it's a male-dominant world. However, it is allegoric labeling... like how a ship or country is often a "she" or "her" but has no actual gender.

I get this is just a fun conversation to have, I'm just picking at you.