I want the truth. Links or some kind of proof please

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Grampa Murked U, Jul 2, 2012.

  1. Grampa Murked U
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    Grampa Murked U Gold Member

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    I keep hearing Obamacare is a massive tax increase because it was upheld on a tax basis.

    I'm well aware of the HUGE tax increases across the board to pay for the program but why is everyone suddenly claiming because of the penalty portion it a new unknown tax increase? Is there somehow a new tax exposed or is this just a play on words?

    Be honest
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  2. Sarah G
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    Sarah G Find the Joy Supporting Member

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    More at Factcheck
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  3. Care4all
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    Care4all Warrior Princess Supporting Member

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    from what i know, there is no new taxes...the list of 21 taxes in the bill stuff, are fees and taxes that were ALWAYS known and used to score the cost of the act???

    So, must be a partisan, maneuvering play...is my best guess....?
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  4. FA_Q2
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    FA_Q2 VIP Member

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    Really? Did you not pay attention to the actual decision?

    Affordable Care Act Upheld | Reuters
    Essentially, Chief Justice Roberts stated the mandate was in fact against the constitution. He then immediately upheld the Affordable Health Care Act by stating the mandate was not actually a mandate but rather a tax. Pretzel logic if you ask me but whatever...

    The idea that it is a tax comes directly from the SCOTUS as it is the reason the law was upheld.
  5. Dante
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    Dante cereal offender Supporting Member

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    WRONG AGAIN! :lmao:

    read the decision...

    The mandate has a penalty which is called the shared responsibility payment. In the text, the shared responsibility payment is called a penalty. This payment will be collected by the IRS, but the IRS is prohibited from using certain practices to collect the payment. Only people who DO NOT buy insurance will be hit with the payment.

    Chief Justice Roberts ruled that Congress can call what appears to be a tax a penalty, but that does not mean the penalty is not a tax. For constitutional purposes the penalty is a tax.

    The mandate is NOT a tax. The penalty, the shared responsibility payment the mandate imposes IS a tax.
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    Last edited: Jul 2, 2012
  6. Plasmaball
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    Plasmaball VIP Member

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    You can't handle the truth!
  7. Sarah G
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    Sarah G Find the Joy Supporting Member

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    Yeah. The mandate is important, if you take car insurance as an example, when people don't buy car insurance and get in accidents, everybody's premiums go up. With the healthcare, they're putting the onus on those who can afford it but don't buy it.

    Also, we have the medicaid expansion offered to the states paid for by the government for the the first three years then they start paying in 2017. That's 17,000,000 people who will be covered, these people are up to 33% above poverty. That is for seniors, kids, families out of work.. Imo, we should do this for our citizens, if we want to remain one of the strongest nations in the world, we should take care of our own.
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  8. LoneLaugher
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    LoneLaugher <<Be an originalist!

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    Really? You are well aware of the HUGE tax increases across the board to pay for the program?

    How about a link to the truth about that statement. You slip it in there like a fact........but people with a brain see it for what it is.....
  9. candycorn
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    candycorn Alis volat propriis

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    Ya beat me to it.
  10. CrusaderFrank
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    CrusaderFrank Gold Member

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    It's all free! So who cares?

    Greedy taxpayers will have to dig a little deeper to pay for the free healthcare for those Democrat voters

    It's a win win!
  11. Sallow
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    Sallow The Big Bad Wolf. Supporting Member

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    Dude..

    He asked a question.

    Dante and others answered it.

    I think ole Grandpa is being honest and looking for a way to understand what happened.

    Best thing to do his help him..not insult him.
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  12. LoneLaugher
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    LoneLaugher <<Be an originalist!

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    No. He made a statement and masked it with a question. In order to answer the question, one needs to tacitly agree with the statement. Don't you ever watch FOX news?

    I think you are asking me to give the guy a break. Good for you. I'll do that when the loaded questions stop coming with such frequency.

    Thanks for the heads up, though. I will try to follow your lead when it comes to restraint.
  13. Zxereus
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    Zxereus BANNED

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    If it's collected by the IRS, it's a tax. The claim is there will not be enforcement if a person chooses not to pay it. However, this would invite an audit. Anyone want to go there ?
  14. Sallow
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    Sallow The Big Bad Wolf. Supporting Member

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    No..it wouldn't. The law as written forbids that.
  15. Sarah G
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    Sarah G Find the Joy Supporting Member

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    Wrong.
  16. Zxereus
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    Zxereus BANNED

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    Oh give me a break ! You think the IRS wouldn't claim the person was audited for a variety of reasons ?

    Goddamn naive people !
  17. Si modo
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    Si modo Senior Member

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    :rolleyes:


    "law regulating the substantial effects of the failure to purchase health insurance, neither can it be upheld as a “necessary and proper” component of the insurance reforms."

    "The individual mandate cannot be upheld as an exercise of Congress’s power under the Commerce Clause."

    "The Affordable Care Act is constitutional in part and unconstitutional in part. The individual mandate cannot be upheld as an exercise of Congress’s power under the Commerce Clause. That Clause authorizes Congress to regulate interstate commerce, not to order individuals to engage in it."

    For example.
  18. Sallow
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    Sallow The Big Bad Wolf. Supporting Member

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    You can probably count the number of people tossed into jail on charges of tax evasion on one hand.

    And most of them..would be illegal immigrants.

    The IRS does very little in terms of audits..and/or enforcement.
  19. Mac1958
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    Mac1958 Gold Member

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    .

    Tax, fee, penalty. Hell, who cares, call it a saxophone.

    It's also a bloated pig, but it's all our "leaders" could come up with.

    .
  20. NYcarbineer
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    NYcarbineer VIP Member

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    In his first comment about the ruling, Romney said he disagreed with the majority opinion and agreed with the dissent.

    Therefore he is taking the position that the mandate penalty is not a tax. I doubt that will deter his campaign from running against it as a tax.

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