I want the truth. Links or some kind of proof please

[Ravi]

I keep hearing Obamacare is a massive tax increase because it was upheld on a tax basis.

I'm well aware of the HUGE tax increases across the board to pay for the program but why is everyone suddenly claiming because of the penalty portion it a new unknown tax increase? Is there somehow a new tax exposed or is this just a play on words?

Be honest

What huge tax increases across the board?

Be honest.

 

[chanel]

 

[thereisnospoon]

Really? Did you not pay attention to the actual decision?

Affordable Care Act Upheld | Reuters

Essentially, Chief Justice Roberts stated the mandate was in fact against the constitution. He then immediately upheld the Affordable Health Care Act by stating the mandate was not actually a mandate but rather a tax. Pretzel logic if you ask me but whatever...

The idea that it is a tax comes directly from the SCOTUS as it is the reason the law was upheld.

WRONG AGAIN!

read the decision...

The mandate has a penalty which is called the shared responsibility payment. In the text, the share responsibility payment is called a penalty. This payment will be collected by the IRS, but the IRS is prohibited from using certain practices to collect the payment. Only people who DO NOT buy insurance will be hit with the payment.

Chief Justice Roberts ruled that Congress can call what appears to be a tax a penalty, but that does not mean the penalty is not a tax. For constitutional purposes the penalty is a tax.

The mandate is NOT a tax. The penalty, the shared responsibility payment the mandate imposes IS a tax.

Yeah. The mandate is important, if you take car insurance as an example, when people don't buy car insurance and get in accidents, everybody's premiums go up. With the healthcare, they're putting the onus on those who can afford it but don't buy it.

Also, we have the medicaid expansion offered to the states paid for by the government for the the first three years then they start paying in 2017. That's 17,000,000 people who will be covered, these people are up to 33% above poverty. That is for seniors, kids, families out of work.. Imo, we should do this for our citizens, if we want to remain one of the strongest nations in the world, we should take care of our own.

Here's the problem. Those that earn just above the income threshold to not have to pay for Obamacare( that is a huge number of people, me included) will be hit the hardest.
When you say "WE should take care of our own", what do you mean by that? Because it appears as though you are emotionally projecting right into other people's money.
Those of us who just get by, live within our means and don't make much more than what is required to live, get killed on these deals. We get killed based on someone's idea of compassion using OUR money. Yeah, I'd like to be that charitable, but I have a house to maintain. But we get a bill. Why? because we earn just over the amount that would allow us to receive "free" Obamacare. There are millions of people who make up the bulk of the middle class who have a household income of $75k to $100k annually that are going to take it in shorts. Of course the lefties do not care.
This is why Obamacare is seen as a potential job killer. Many families who are in that $75k to $100k range have one higher wage earner and one lower.
Many families will take a look at their finances. They will look to see what it would take to get below the 400% of poverty threshold so they don't have to pay for insurance. They will examine if they can handle their bills. They will cut back on extras and other wants.
Many will have one spouse leave the workforce in order to get below the threshold.
Business....60% of the workers are employed in small business. That is 50 or fewer employees. Many businesses have JUST OVER 50 people on payroll. Those businesses will look to see if they can eliminate positions to get into the area where they are exempt. That will cost jobs as well.
Obama care....Paving the way to hell with good intentions.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Really? You are well aware of the HUGE tax increases across the board to pay for the program?

How about a link to the truth about that statement. You slip it in there like a fact........but people with a brain see it for what it is.....

Dude..

He asked a question.

Dante and others answered it.

I think ole Grandpa is being honest and looking for a way to understand what happened.

Best thing to do his help him..not insult him.

No. He made a statement and masked it with a question. In order to answer the question, one needs to tacitly agree with the statement. Don't you ever watch FOX news?

I think you are asking me to give the guy a break. Good for you. I'll do that when the loaded questions stop coming with such frequency.

Thanks for the heads up, though. I will try to follow your lead when it comes to restraint.

Go watch you kids play their sports. This is no place for you.
If you'd pay attention to something else besides your little cupcakes, you'd know that the ACA has provisions in it that give the Secretary of Health and Human Services virtual absolute authority over the Act and with that, the power of taxing authority.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Really? You are well aware of the HUGE tax increases across the board to pay for the program?

How about a link to the truth about that statement. You slip it in there like a fact........but people with a brain see it for what it is.....

Dude..

He asked a question.

Dante and others answered it.

I think ole Grandpa is being honest and looking for a way to understand what happened.

Best thing to do his help him..not insult him.

No. He made a statement and masked it with a question. In order to answer the question, one needs to tacitly agree with the statement. Don't you ever watch FOX news?

I think you are asking me to give the guy a break. Good for you. I'll do that when the loaded questions stop coming with such frequency.

Thanks for the heads up, though. I will try to follow your lead when it comes to restraint.

Oh.....First it was a statement. Then you said it was "a loaded question"..BTW "loaded question is liberal code for " I can't answer that one so I will either evade the question, deflect away from it or insult the person asking the question"....And of course there is " that's not the question. The question should be..."
Did someone bop you in the head with an Easton?

 

[thereisnospoon]

If it's collected by the IRS, it's a tax. The claim is there will not be enforcement if a person chooses not to pay it. However, this would invite an audit. Anyone want to go there ?

No..it wouldn't. The law as written forbids that.

from factcheck..
"The law says that the IRS will collect the tax “in the same manner as an assessable penalty under subchapter B of chapter 68” of the tax code. That part of the tax code provides for imposing an additional penalty “equal to the total amount of the tax evaded, or not collected. It also requires written notices to the taxpayer, and provides for court proceedings."

 

[thereisnospoon]

No..it wouldn't. The law as written forbids that.

Oh give me a break ! You think the IRS wouldn't claim the person was audited for a variety of reasons ?

Goddamn naive people !

You can probably count the number of people tossed into jail on charges of tax evasion on one hand.

And most of them..would be illegal immigrants.

The IRS does very little in terms of audits..and/or enforcement.

Unbelievable...

Obama just released $880 billion to hire 16,000 NEW IRS employees to who's job it is to collect the tax.

 

[Si modo]

I keep hearing Obamacare is a massive tax increase because it was upheld on a tax basis.

I'm well aware of the HUGE tax increases across the board to pay for the program but why is everyone suddenly claiming because of the penalty portion it a new unknown tax increase? Is there somehow a new tax exposed or is this just a play on words?

Be honest

I have read the first 150 pages of Obamacare. Link....http://www.healthcare.gov/law/resources/authorities/patient-protection.pdf.
You'll see in many instances where "the Secretary" (Sec'y of Health and Human Services) is mentioned. The Act gives this office virtual absolute authority on how the Act is to be implemented, funding, direction, etc.
This give that Office virtual unlimited taxing authority. At least that is how I see it.
When I see "The Secretary Shall" or "Under the direction of the Secretary" ....I see an unelected accountable to no one individual who serves only at the pleasure of the President have the authority to do just about anything they wish.
That's un-American. There is no checks and balances in the Act.

I just gave that document a cursory examination. Much of what the Secretary of Health and Human Services is charged with is determining if states are in compliance with federal mandates with respect to Medicaid funding. As the SCOTUS ruled that part of the act as unconstitutional, those powers are immediately stripped from that office.

Additionaly, where that document discusses the Secretary's power to determine mandate costs, THAT power has also been stripped of that office by the SCOTUS. It's a tax, not a mandate, and ONLY Congress can levy taxes.

I am most pleased to see the SCOTUS ruling so cleanly strip those powers from that office.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Really? Did you not pay attention to the actual decision?

Affordable Care Act Upheld | Reuters

Essentially, Chief Justice Roberts stated the mandate was in fact against the constitution. He then immediately upheld the Affordable Health Care Act by stating the mandate was not actually a mandate but rather a tax. Pretzel logic if you ask me but whatever...

The idea that it is a tax comes directly from the SCOTUS as it is the reason the law was upheld.

WRONG AGAIN!

read the decision...

The mandate has a penalty which is called the shared responsibility payment. In the text, the shared responsibility payment is called a penalty. This payment will be collected by the IRS, but the IRS is prohibited from using certain practices to collect the payment. Only people who DO NOT buy insurance will be hit with the payment.

Chief Justice Roberts ruled that Congress can call what appears to be a tax a penalty, but that does not mean the penalty is not a tax. For constitutional purposes the penalty is a tax.

The mandate is NOT a tax. The penalty, the shared responsibility payment the mandate imposes IS a tax.

Here's an even sharper knife for you to re split those hairs.
Dude, it's a TAX. No matter how hard you try to spin it. The mandate is a TAX.
The whole Obamacare Act is a TAX.
If the government charges the citizens an amount of money and compels the people to pay the amount, it is a TAX.

So I take it you agree that the Supreme Court got it right in finding the law constitutional.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Im so sick of this stupid right wing notion that taxes are the devils spawn.

No matter how we structure our healthcare the people are the ones who will pay for it.

some just dont want to pay to help others get treated.

yet they do it right now and insurance companies will always make you pay for the other guy who needs more medical care than you.


stupid is stupid and this whole areguement is much ado about nothing.

WAAAHHH She screeched..JUST LEAVE OBAMA ALONE!!!!!!!
When taxes are collected and used in an efficient and fiscally responsible manner, few if any complain at all.
When taxes are collected for uses that waste money, produce fraud, fund projects and programs which NEVER operate within budget and ALWAYS end up costing far more than promised, yeah, that is the shit that pisses us off.
You and those like you see government as your benevolent provider. Like the church going Bible people who offer their tithe to the church you lefties bring your offering to the Government Altar.
The difference is those who attend church do so voluntarily. You people mandate we ALL must pay for your schemes.

 

[Jackson]

Oh give me a break ! You think the IRS wouldn't claim the person was audited for a variety of reasons ?

Goddamn naive people !

You can probably count the number of people tossed into jail on charges of tax evasion on one hand.

And most of them..would be illegal immigrants.

The IRS does very little in terms of audits..and/or enforcement.

Unbelievable...

Obama just released $880 billion to hire 16,000 NEW IRS employees to who's job it is to collect the tax.

And that's just the start.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Obama's Victory Speech Translated

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Obama's Victory Speech Translated
Posted by John Stossel | June 29, 2012

After the Supremes approved Obamacare yesterday, the President gave a speech. I think it needs de-coding.

Obama: Today's decision was a victory for people all over this country...
De-coded: It's a victory for central planners, not "people". One thing I've learned in 42 years of reporting is that centrally planned bureaucracy kills innovation, increases costs, and undercuts personal liberty.

If you're one of the more than 250 million Americans who already have health insurance, you will keep your health insurance...
Unless your insurance company, like Principal Financial, leaves the business, because you've made it bad business. Then people lose their policy[/COLOR].

This law will only make it more secure and more affordable.
It's impossible to do both.

Because of the Affordable Care Act, young adults under the age of 26 are able to stay under their parent's health care plans...
That will make insurance cost more....

A provision that's already helped 6 million young Americans.
And made insurance cost more.

And because of the Affordable Care Act, seniors receive a discount on their prescription drugs - a discount that's already saved more than 5 million seniors on Medicare about 600 dollars each.[/B
]Even rich seniors get a handout. According to Sen. Jeff Sessions (R-Ala.), ObamaCare will cost taxpayers $2.6 trillion in the next 10 years.

These provisions provide common-sense protections for middle class families, and they enjoy broad popular support.
True, because people like "free" stuff.

If you're one of the 30 million Americans who don't yet have health insurance, starting in 2014 this law will offer you an array of quality, affordable, private health insurance plans to choose from.
There were already plenty of options for them, including Medicare and charity. But we in government are only happy if it's all centrally planned.

Now, you'll get to "choose" from a whole "array" of mandated expensive and mediocre healthcare "options."They won't be able to charge you more just because you're a woman.

That's right. They'll just charge everybody more in higher premiums and higher taxes.
But that's nuts! Women visit doctors more than men. Women consume more healthcare.
Not charging women more for health insurance is like not charging Charlie Sheen more for property insurance. People who incur higher costs pay higher insurance rates or insurance doesn't work.

If you're sick, you'll finally have the same chance to get quality, affordable health care as everyone else.
Quality? Affordable? Without a market, how would we know? Quality and innovation come from market competition. That pretty much stops with central planning. Canadians get "free" healthcare, and they have the privilege of waiting 23 hours to see someone at the ER, as opposed to the 4 hours Americans have to endure.

And if you can't afford the premiums, you'll receive a credit that helps pay for it.
And you will be taxed for that. The bill raises premiums by up to 50% -- that's $1,500 for individuals, and $3,300 for families -- according to a study by Blue Cross Blue Shield (BSBA).

Today, the Supreme Court also upheld the principle that people who can afford health insurance should take the responsibility to buy health insurance]B].
Should take responsibility? No. The Supreme Court ruled that the you must buy insurance because the Feds say so. That's not "should take responsibility", that's force....

If you ask insurance companies to cover people with preexisting conditions, but don't require people who can afford it to buy their own insurance, some folks might wait until they're sick to buy the care they need...
We still will. The penalties cost less than insurance. This will drive private insurance companies out of business. Then we will be stuck with government care. Maybe that was the intention all along.

In fact, this idea has enjoyed support from members of both parties, including the current Republican nominee for President.
True. Although he imposed it only on one state. We have 50. Experiments at the state level at least allow comparison. And some freedom. Also, when Obamacare passed, there was not "support from both parties." No Republicans voted for the law and Mitt Romney promises to repeal the law if he gets elected....

I didn't do this because it was good politics. I did it because I believed it was good for the country.
I believe you. Statists think that big intrusive complex government micromanagement is a good thing.They think that government can solve our healthcare problems. I say, "No They Can't."

And now is the time to keep our focus on the most urgent challenge of our time: putting people back to work, paying down our debt, and building an economy where people can have confidence that if they work hard, they can get ahead.
But Obamacare works against all those things. It discourages those who do work from hiring people. It makes it harder to pay down our debt. This study predicts that the healthcare law will add $530 Billion to the national debt in just 10 years....

when we look back five years from now, or 10 years from now, or 20 years from now, we'll be better off because we had the courage to pass this law and keep moving forward.
We'll be better off if we have the sense to repeal it. Government doesn't know best. Central planning, federal mandates, and government controls are a fatal conceit of an arrogant political class. Mr. President, at Harvard Law School, you were taught that you can manage life though paper and procedure. But that is a lie.

Read more: Obama's Victory Speech Translated - Stossel's Take Blog - Fox Business

I'm adding rep for this post..Well done!

 

[Si modo]

WRONG AGAIN!

read the decision...

The mandate has a penalty which is called the shared responsibility payment. In the text, the shared responsibility payment is called a penalty. This payment will be collected by the IRS, but the IRS is prohibited from using certain practices to collect the payment. Only people who DO NOT buy insurance will be hit with the payment.

Chief Justice Roberts ruled that Congress can call what appears to be a tax a penalty, but that does not mean the penalty is not a tax. For constitutional purposes the penalty is a tax.

The mandate is NOT a tax. The penalty, the shared responsibility payment the mandate imposes IS a tax.

Here's an even sharper knife for you to re split those hairs.
Dude, it's a TAX. No matter how hard you try to spin it. The mandate is a TAX.
The whole Obamacare Act is a TAX.
If the government charges the citizens an amount of money and compels the people to pay the amount, it is a TAX.

So I take it you agree that the Supreme Court got it right in finding the law constitutional.

What an awesome lie of omission you did.

Quoted from the opinion: "The Affordable Care Act is constitutional in part and unconstitutional in part."

 

[thereisnospoon]

WRONG AGAIN!

read the decision...

The mandate has a penalty which is called the shared responsibility payment. In the text, the shared responsibility payment is called a penalty. This payment will be collected by the IRS, but the IRS is prohibited from using certain practices to collect the payment. Only people who DO NOT buy insurance will be hit with the payment.

Chief Justice Roberts ruled that Congress can call what appears to be a tax a penalty, but that does not mean the penalty is not a tax. For constitutional purposes the penalty is a tax.

The mandate is NOT a tax. The penalty, the shared responsibility payment the mandate imposes IS a tax.

Here's an even sharper knife for you to re split those hairs.
Dude, it's a TAX. No matter how hard you try to spin it. The mandate is a TAX.
The whole Obamacare Act is a TAX.
If the government charges the citizens an amount of money and compels the people to pay the amount, it is a TAX.

So I take it you agree that the Supreme Court got it right in finding the law constitutional.

No..The statement stands on it's own. Free of ambiguity.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Here's an even sharper knife for you to re split those hairs.
Dude, it's a TAX. No matter how hard you try to spin it. The mandate is a TAX.
The whole Obamacare Act is a TAX.
If the government charges the citizens an amount of money and compels the people to pay the amount, it is a TAX.

So I take it you agree that the Supreme Court got it right in finding the law constitutional.

What an awesome lie of omission you did.

Quoted from the opinion: "The Affordable Care Act is constitutional in part and unconstitutional in part."

Nothing you said has anything to do with my exchange with the other poster. He's proclaiming the mandate a tax, as was the court's majority opinion, which was the court's justification for upholding the law. So I'm wondering if NOW the poster agrees that the law is constitutional...

...that was not that poster's opinion in the past.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Here's an even sharper knife for you to re split those hairs.
Dude, it's a TAX. No matter how hard you try to spin it. The mandate is a TAX.
The whole Obamacare Act is a TAX.
If the government charges the citizens an amount of money and compels the people to pay the amount, it is a TAX.

So I take it you agree that the Supreme Court got it right in finding the law constitutional.

No..The statement stands on it's own. Free of ambiguity.

But the Court used the mandate being a tax as the rationale for finding the law constitutional.

What else is there?

 

[Sallow]

Oh give me a break ! You think the IRS wouldn't claim the person was audited for a variety of reasons ?

Goddamn naive people !

You can probably count the number of people tossed into jail on charges of tax evasion on one hand.

And most of them..would be illegal immigrants.

The IRS does very little in terms of audits..and/or enforcement.

Unbelievable...

Obama just released $880 billion to hire 16,000 NEW IRS employees to who's job it is to collect the tax.

That would be cool if it were true.

Link?

 

[Sallow]

If it's collected by the IRS, it's a tax. The claim is there will not be enforcement if a person chooses not to pay it. However, this would invite an audit. Anyone want to go there ?

No..it wouldn't. The law as written forbids that.

from factcheck..
"The law says that the IRS will collect the tax “in the same manner as an assessable penalty under subchapter B of chapter 68” of the tax code. That part of the tax code provides for imposing an additional penalty “equal to the total amount of the tax evaded, or not collected. It also requires written notices to the taxpayer, and provides for court proceedings."

Again..

Most people don't go to jail for tax evasion..they generally figure out a payment plan.

You guys are ridiculous.

 

[Moonglow]

It's all free! So who cares?

Greedy taxpayers will have to dig a little deeper to pay for the free healthcare for those Democrat voters

It's a win win!

you don't pay anything for this liberal democratic veteran. So get you with the program and stop your constant lying.

 

[Ravi]

You can probably count the number of people tossed into jail on charges of tax evasion on one hand.

And most of them..would be illegal immigrants.

The IRS does very little in terms of audits..and/or enforcement.

Unbelievable...

Obama just released $880 billion to hire 16,000 NEW IRS employees to who's job it is to collect the tax.

That would be cool if it were true.

Link?

That lie has been circulating for at least a year.