I want the truth. Links or some kind of proof please

[old navy]

I keep hearing Obamacare is a massive tax increase because it was upheld on a tax basis.

I'm well aware of the HUGE tax increases across the board to pay for the program but why is everyone suddenly claiming because of the penalty portion it a new unknown tax increase? Is there somehow a new tax exposed or is this just a play on words?

Be honest

Really? You are well aware of the HUGE tax increases across the board to pay for the program?

How about a link to the truth about that statement. You slip it in there like a fact........but people with a brain see it for what it is.....

Dude..

He asked a question.

Dante and others answered it.

I think ole Grandpa is being honest and looking for a way to understand what happened.

Best thing to do his help him..not insult him.

I read Grandpa's post the same you sallow.

In fact, it looks like he is challenging righties to show where the PPACA will actually cost massive amounts of money, hurt small businesses, and further drag down an already down economy. Much of that of course remains to be seen as the provisions of the law are implemented. Will the health care industry adjust? Will enough waivers be handed out to save businesses? Will there be enough health care providers and provider extenders? The CBO seems to come up with different numbers every time they rate it. Other industry raters come up with negative ratings and adverse effects on medical loss ratios.

Anyway, those are a few of my observations.

 

[NYcarbineer]

There are varying estimates, but somewhere around 30 million Americans will be affected by the mandate.

Some will get insurance, some will not. Bottom line is, the amount that will ultimately be paid as the penalty/tax will not be 'huge'.

 

[Mac1958]

.

There's one thing about which we can depend:

"The Truth" now always means "how I see things from my slanted, ideological perspective." It's a worthless word.

.

 

[Zxereus]

No..it wouldn't. The law as written forbids that.

Oh give me a break ! You think the IRS wouldn't claim the person was audited for a variety of reasons ?

Goddamn naive people !

You can probably count the number of people tossed into jail on charges of tax evasion on one hand.

And most of them..would be illegal immigrants.

The IRS does very little in terms of audits..and/or enforcement.

Oh brother

 

[Too Tall]

If it's collected by the IRS, it's a tax. The claim is there will not be enforcement if a person chooses not to pay it. However, this would invite an audit. Anyone want to go there ?

Wrong.

Correct, it does not imply an audit. It does say the IRS will SUE if you don't pay. Audits don't cost anything, lawyers cost hundreds if not thousands of dollars.

 

[Zxereus]

Really? You are well aware of the HUGE tax increases across the board to pay for the program?

How about a link to the truth about that statement. You slip it in there like a fact........but people with a brain see it for what it is.....

Dude..

He asked a question.

Dante and others answered it.

I think ole Grandpa is being honest and looking for a way to understand what happened.

Best thing to do his help him..not insult him.

I read Grandpa's post the same you sallow.

In fact, it looks like he is challenging righties to show where the PPACA will actually cost massive amounts of money, hurt small businesses, and further drag down an already down economy. Much of that of course remains to be seen as the provisions of the law are implemented. Will the health care industry adjust? Will enough waivers be handed out to save businesses? Will there be enough health care providers and provider extenders? The CBO seems to come up with different numbers every time they rate it. Other industry raters come up with negative ratings and adverse effects on medical loss ratios.

Anyway, those are a few of my observations.

At this point I think anyone who knows how this will or will not affect businesses is simply trying to read tea leaves.
I look at it this way, we know we are going to have trouble paying for SS/Medicare/Medicaid down the road. Now we are opening the door to a whole new entitlement that based on any other government program, will only grow.
I think this can of worms that has now been opened will eventually lead to what we now have in places like Greece.

 

[chanel]

And IRS agents cost money. Why would the WH hire 5000 new IRS agents if there won't be additional audits? Good Lord. People are naive. Or dishonest.

• “IRS will need up to $10 billion to administer the new health care program this decade;
• “IRS may need to hire as many as 16,500 additional auditors, agents and other employees to investigate and collect billions in new taxes from Americans.” (House Ways & Means Committee, “Ways And Means Republicans’ Report: Democrats’ Health Care Bill Contains Massive Expansion Of IRS’ Power,” Press Release, 3/18/10)

ObamaCare

 

[thereisnospoon]

I keep hearing Obamacare is a massive tax increase because it was upheld on a tax basis.

I'm well aware of the HUGE tax increases across the board to pay for the program but why is everyone suddenly claiming because of the penalty portion it a new unknown tax increase? Is there somehow a new tax exposed or is this just a play on words?

Be honest

from what i know, there is no new taxes...the list of 21 taxes in the bill stuff, are fees and taxes that were ALWAYS known and used to score the cost of the act???

So, must be a partisan, maneuvering play...is my best guess....?

You know very little.

 

[Sallow]

Oh give me a break ! You think the IRS wouldn't claim the person was audited for a variety of reasons ?

Goddamn naive people !

You can probably count the number of people tossed into jail on charges of tax evasion on one hand.

And most of them..would be illegal immigrants.

The IRS does very little in terms of audits..and/or enforcement.

Oh brother

My bad..

On second thought..they did go after Mafia bosses.

So you got me.

 

[NYcarbineer]

The mandate tax is a tax that 99% of Americans will never have to pay.

 

[Si modo]

You can probably count the number of people tossed into jail on charges of tax evasion on one hand.

And most of them..would be illegal immigrants.

The IRS does very little in terms of audits..and/or enforcement.

Oh brother

My bad..

On second thought..they did go after Mafia bosses.

So you got me.

Just in March 2012, 10% of federal white collar convictions were IRS related. White Collar Crime Convictions for March 2012

 

[thereisnospoon]

I keep hearing Obamacare is a massive tax increase because it was upheld on a tax basis.

I'm well aware of the HUGE tax increases across the board to pay for the program but why is everyone suddenly claiming because of the penalty portion it a new unknown tax increase? Is there somehow a new tax exposed or is this just a play on words?

Be honest

I have read the first 150 pages of Obamacare. Link....http://www.healthcare.gov/law/resources/authorities/patient-protection.pdf.
You'll see in many instances where "the Secretary" (Sec'y of Health and Human Services) is mentioned. The Act gives this office virtual absolute authority on how the Act is to be implemented, funding, direction, etc.
This give that Office virtual unlimited taxing authority. At least that is how I see it.
When I see "The Secretary Shall" or "Under the direction of the Secretary" ....I see an unelected accountable to no one individual who serves only at the pleasure of the President have the authority to do just about anything they wish.
That's un-American. There is no checks and balances in the Act.

 

[Truthmatters]

Im so sick of this stupid right wing notion that taxes are the devils spawn.

No matter how we structure our healthcare the people are the ones who will pay for it.

some just dont want to pay to help others get treated.

yet they do it right now and insurance companies will always make you pay for the other guy who needs more medical care than you.


stupid is stupid and this whole areguement is much ado about nothing.

 

[Contumacious]

from what i know, there is no new taxes...the list of 21 taxes in the bill stuff, are fees and taxes that were ALWAYS known and used to score the cost of the act??? So, must be a partisan, maneuvering play...is my best guess....?

Today, Congress got everything it wanted.

First, their massive health care reform law was upheld. Second, their power to tax was broadened. Third, they will have to pay no political price for having passed a massive tax hike in 2010 — that is, unless the people will now hold them accountable.

.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Really? Did you not pay attention to the actual decision?

Affordable Care Act Upheld | Reuters

Writing the majority opinion, Chief Justice John Roberts agreed with this argument and said that the individual mandate would violate the Commerce Clause. However, the Chief Justice then said that the mandate could be upheld as a tax. So while Congress cannot force you to purchase anything in the marketplace, it does have the power to tax you.

Essentially, Chief Justice Roberts stated the mandate was in fact against the constitution. He then immediately upheld the Affordable Health Care Act by stating the mandate was not actually a mandate but rather a tax. Pretzel logic if you ask me but whatever...

The idea that it is a tax comes directly from the SCOTUS as it is the reason the law was upheld.

WRONG AGAIN!

read the decision...

The mandate has a penalty which is called the shared responsibility payment. In the text, the shared responsibility payment is called a penalty. This payment will be collected by the IRS, but the IRS is prohibited from using certain practices to collect the payment. Only people who DO NOT buy insurance will be hit with the payment.

Chief Justice Roberts ruled that Congress can call what appears to be a tax a penalty, but that does not mean the penalty is not a tax. For constitutional purposes the penalty is a tax.

The mandate is NOT a tax. The penalty, the shared responsibility payment the mandate imposes IS a tax.

According to factcheck.org. failure to pay the tax will trigger "normal tax collection proceedings" which includes court proceedings.
Nothing changes. It's a tax and the federal IRS has the authority to use the law to collect the tax.
Text from factcheck..
"The law says that the IRS will collect the tax “in the same manner as an assessable penalty under subchapter B of chapter 68” of the tax code. That part of the tax code provides for imposing an additional penalty “equal to the total amount of the tax evaded, or not collected.” It also requires written notices to the taxpayer, and provides for court proceedings."

 

[Sarah G]

Oh brother

My bad..

On second thought..they did go after Mafia bosses.

So you got me.

Just in March 2012, 10% of federal white collar convictions were IRS related. White Collar Crime Convictions for March 2012

They will hound someone for $50 a month which would be the largest amount one will have to pay and that is in 2017 but you won't find yourself in a levy situation. In 2014, you would pay $8 a month each month you are uninsured.

White collar convictions can be in the millions of dollars. This is chump change.

 

[Wry Catcher]

I keep hearing Obamacare is a massive tax increase because it was upheld on a tax basis.

I'm well aware of the HUGE tax increases across the board to pay for the program but why is everyone suddenly claiming because of the penalty portion it a new unknown tax increase? Is there somehow a new tax exposed or is this just a play on words?

Be honest

FACT CHECK: On keeping your current health plan & the "huge" tax increase that isn't:
FACT CHECK: On keeping your current health plan - Yahoo! News

 

[thereisnospoon]

Really? Did you not pay attention to the actual decision?

Affordable Care Act Upheld | Reuters

Writing the majority opinion, Chief Justice John Roberts agreed with this argument and said that the individual mandate would violate the Commerce Clause. However, the Chief Justice then said that the mandate could be upheld as a tax. So while Congress cannot force you to purchase anything in the marketplace, it does have the power to tax you.

Essentially, Chief Justice Roberts stated the mandate was in fact against the constitution. He then immediately upheld the Affordable Health Care Act by stating the mandate was not actually a mandate but rather a tax. Pretzel logic if you ask me but whatever...

The idea that it is a tax comes directly from the SCOTUS as it is the reason the law was upheld.

WRONG AGAIN!

read the decision...

The mandate has a penalty which is called the shared responsibility payment. In the text, the shared responsibility payment is called a penalty. This payment will be collected by the IRS, but the IRS is prohibited from using certain practices to collect the payment. Only people who DO NOT buy insurance will be hit with the payment.

Chief Justice Roberts ruled that Congress can call what appears to be a tax a penalty, but that does not mean the penalty is not a tax. For constitutional purposes the penalty is a tax.

The mandate is NOT a tax. The penalty, the shared responsibility payment the mandate imposes IS a tax.

Here's an even sharper knife for you to re split those hairs.
Dude, it's a TAX. No matter how hard you try to spin it. The mandate is a TAX.
The whole Obamacare Act is a TAX.
If the government charges the citizens an amount of money and compels the people to pay the amount, it is a TAX.

 

[Si modo]

My bad..

On second thought..they did go after Mafia bosses.

So you got me.

Just in March 2012, 10% of federal white collar convictions were IRS related. White Collar Crime Convictions for March 2012

They will hound someone for $50 a month which would be the largest amount one will have to pay and that is in 2017 but you won't find yourself in a levy situation. In 2014, you would pay $8 a month each month you are uninsured.

White collar convictions can be in the millions of dollars. This is chump change.

Links, please.

 

[Jackson]

Obama's Victory Speech Translated

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Obama's Victory Speech Translated
Posted by John Stossel | June 29, 2012

After the Supremes approved Obamacare yesterday, the President gave a speech. I think it needs de-coding.

Obama: Today's decision was a victory for people all over this country...
De-coded: It's a victory for central planners, not "people". One thing I've learned in 42 years of reporting is that centrally planned bureaucracy kills innovation, increases costs, and undercuts personal liberty.

If you're one of the more than 250 million Americans who already have health insurance, you will keep your health insurance...
Unless your insurance company, like Principal Financial, leaves the business, because you've made it bad business. Then people lose their policy[/COLOR].

This law will only make it more secure and more affordable.
It's impossible to do both.

Because of the Affordable Care Act, young adults under the age of 26 are able to stay under their parent's health care plans...
That will make insurance cost more....

A provision that's already helped 6 million young Americans.
And made insurance cost more.

And because of the Affordable Care Act, seniors receive a discount on their prescription drugs - a discount that's already saved more than 5 million seniors on Medicare about 600 dollars each.[/B
]Even rich seniors get a handout. According to Sen. Jeff Sessions (R-Ala.), ObamaCare will cost taxpayers $2.6 trillion in the next 10 years.

These provisions provide common-sense protections for middle class families, and they enjoy broad popular support.
True, because people like "free" stuff.

If you're one of the 30 million Americans who don't yet have health insurance, starting in 2014 this law will offer you an array of quality, affordable, private health insurance plans to choose from.
There were already plenty of options for them, including Medicare and charity. But we in government are only happy if it's all centrally planned.

Now, you'll get to "choose" from a whole "array" of mandated expensive and mediocre healthcare "options."They won't be able to charge you more just because you're a woman.

That's right. They'll just charge everybody more in higher premiums and higher taxes.
But that's nuts! Women visit doctors more than men. Women consume more healthcare.
Not charging women more for health insurance is like not charging Charlie Sheen more for property insurance. People who incur higher costs pay higher insurance rates or insurance doesn't work.

If you're sick, you'll finally have the same chance to get quality, affordable health care as everyone else.
Quality? Affordable? Without a market, how would we know? Quality and innovation come from market competition. That pretty much stops with central planning. Canadians get "free" healthcare, and they have the privilege of waiting 23 hours to see someone at the ER, as opposed to the 4 hours Americans have to endure.

And if you can't afford the premiums, you'll receive a credit that helps pay for it.
And you will be taxed for that. The bill raises premiums by up to 50% -- that's $1,500 for individuals, and $3,300 for families -- according to a study by Blue Cross Blue Shield (BSBA).

Today, the Supreme Court also upheld the principle that people who can afford health insurance should take the responsibility to buy health insurance]B].
Should take responsibility? No. The Supreme Court ruled that the you must buy insurance because the Feds say so. That's not "should take responsibility", that's force....

If you ask insurance companies to cover people with preexisting conditions, but don't require people who can afford it to buy their own insurance, some folks might wait until they're sick to buy the care they need...
We still will. The penalties cost less than insurance. This will drive private insurance companies out of business. Then we will be stuck with government care. Maybe that was the intention all along.

In fact, this idea has enjoyed support from members of both parties, including the current Republican nominee for President.
True. Although he imposed it only on one state. We have 50. Experiments at the state level at least allow comparison. And some freedom. Also, when Obamacare passed, there was not "support from both parties." No Republicans voted for the law and Mitt Romney promises to repeal the law if he gets elected....

I didn't do this because it was good politics. I did it because I believed it was good for the country.
I believe you. Statists think that big intrusive complex government micromanagement is a good thing.They think that government can solve our healthcare problems. I say, "No They Can't."

And now is the time to keep our focus on the most urgent challenge of our time: putting people back to work, paying down our debt, and building an economy where people can have confidence that if they work hard, they can get ahead.
But Obamacare works against all those things. It discourages those who do work from hiring people. It makes it harder to pay down our debt. This study predicts that the healthcare law will add $530 Billion to the national debt in just 10 years....

when we look back five years from now, or 10 years from now, or 20 years from now, we'll be better off because we had the courage to pass this law and keep moving forward.
We'll be better off if we have the sense to repeal it. Government doesn't know best. Central planning, federal mandates, and government controls are a fatal conceit of an arrogant political class. Mr. President, at Harvard Law School, you were taught that you can manage life though paper and procedure. But that is a lie.

Read more: Obama's Victory Speech Translated - Stossel's Take Blog - Fox Business