I think I may have to fire my lead crewman.

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Laid him off last week after a job was butchered. He has been complaining since early summer about physical ailments and I've told him regularly to goto the damn doctor. It has gotten to the point that it is severely affecting his reliability & skill.
Last week I told him to take some time off and get to the doctor. I've called him every day and asked what the doctors had to say and he's said "I haven't gone yet".
Today he informed me that he's feeling fine and ready to go. Thing is I've heard this before a dozen times.

I feel like I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. The man has given me 16 loyal years and i consider him a friend but the judgment & quality of his work has slipped dramatically. Not to mention almost every remodel has gone over the allotted time by 2 to 5 days in the last few months. While that may not sound like a lot it is a schedule busting nightmare and is costing me a fortune in lost income.
I am TRUELY tortured with this decision.

Any constructive feedback would be appreciated.

Could you give him a job that does not involve him doing anything physical/manual? If you can then you should, if you cannot then as crap as it's going to make you feel you are going to have to let him go.

Also I agree anyone who is sick and repeatedly avoids going to a doctor is afraid of what the doctor might find. This is not a good idea, many sicknesses can be combated if they have an early diagnosis, avoiding medical help is not the sensible thing to do.

Of course this isn't Austria, so going to the doctor probably costs money... 20 years ago my girlfriend had a sister who was a social worker in Germany. She told her to go to rehab dot-dot-dot cost my girlfriend $12,000... She did not have...

We have a two tier health system so basically everyone if they need medical attention this is provided from public funding and we have the choice of getting private medical insurance, my family that is my entire family have always paid privately for any medical attention we have needed. We also do not have something like the British have the NHS and the NHS in Britain is not a good system IMHO.

What happens in America if someone has an accident and they have no health insurance do they turn them down or what happens?

That also could be why or a combination of why Grampa's friend is afraid of what doctors tests will tell him and also the cost of the tests.

Scott and I have always had insurance through our wives. We have workcomp for job related shit but that doesn't apply here.
Having said that I don't know what the passage of Obamacare did to his situation and we never really discuss political or deeply personal stuff so his situation may or may not have changed.
Having said that we have hospitals in KC that take you in and if you don't have adequate insurance they have programs to see your illness or injury to the end. They don't just kick you out the door and say "here's a referral"
He has made enough money to not be in that situation but I don't pry into personal lives.

 

[Shrimpbox]

Grampa you have a dilemma but all signs point to a drug problem. He may not want to go,to,the doctor for the blood test and he may be doing drugs for the pain. Having been in the restaurant business he may have been exposed to the culture. Sit the boy down. Tell him he has not been himself and job performance is suffering and that is just not like him, but it can’t keep going on like this. Say you two have been together for a long time and you are concerned about him. Ask him if there are any problems at home or if there is anything bothering him because now is the time to get it off your chest. Tell him you want to help him but you can’t if you don’t know what the problem is. Make him an appointment with your doctor and tell him if he doesn’t keep it don’t bother coming back to work. Pay for it yourself. Your doctor can not divulge what transpires at the appointment but at least you can be sure that the appointment happened.

And gramps sometimes you have to be a little sneaky. You must know some of his friends. Ask them innocently if the guy has been acting differently lately cause he just doesn’t seem to be himself. Investigate on the qt. While I always hope for the best I am most often disappointed, but there is always a chance you can not only help his physical but his mental state too. If not, cut him loose. Good luck.

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

Laid him off last week after a job was butchered. He has been complaining since early summer about physical ailments and I've told him regularly to goto the damn doctor. It has gotten to the point that it is severely affecting his reliability & skill.
Last week I told him to take some time off and get to the doctor. I've called him every day and asked what the doctors had to say and he's said "I haven't gone yet".
Today he informed me that he's feeling fine and ready to go. Thing is I've heard this before a dozen times.

I feel like I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. The man has given me 16 loyal years and i consider him a friend but the judgment & quality of his work has slipped dramatically. Not to mention almost every remodel has gone over the allotted time by 2 to 5 days in the last few months. While that may not sound like a lot it is a schedule busting nightmare and is costing me a fortune in lost income.
I am TRUELY tortured with this decision.

Any constructive feedback would be appreciated.

Could you give him a job that does not involve him doing anything physical/manual? If you can then you should, if you cannot then as crap as it's going to make you feel you are going to have to let him go.

Also I agree anyone who is sick and repeatedly avoids going to a doctor is afraid of what the doctor might find. This is not a good idea, many sicknesses can be combated if they have an early diagnosis, avoiding medical help is not the sensible thing to do.

Of course this isn't Austria, so going to the doctor probably costs money... 20 years ago my girlfriend had a sister who was a social worker in Germany. She told her to go to rehab dot-dot-dot cost my girlfriend $12,000... She did not have...

We have a two tier health system so basically everyone if they need medical attention this is provided from public funding and we have the choice of getting private medical insurance, my family that is my entire family have always paid privately for any medical attention we have needed. We also do not have something like the British have the NHS and the NHS in Britain is not a good system IMHO.

What happens in America if someone has an accident and they have no health insurance do they turn them down or what happens?

That also could be why or a combination of why Grampa's friend is afraid of what doctors tests will tell him and also the cost of the tests.

Scott and I have always had insurance through our wives. We have workcomp for job related shit but that doesn't apply here.
Having said that I don't know what the passage of Obamacare did to his situation and we never really discuss political or deeply personal stuff so his situation may or may not have changed.
Having said that we have hospitals in KC that take you in and if you don't have adequate insurance they have programs to see your illness or injury to the end. They don't just kick you out the door and say "here's a referral"
He has made enough money to not be in that situation but I don't pry into personal lives.

I cannot comprehend the American Healthcare System and I think most Europeans would agree. IMHO a persons health and possibly their life should not have a cost put on it to me this is immoral, adequate and affordable healthcare for people is a basic human right.

A few years ago I read an article about a man in America and he lost his job and he had excruciating tooth pain and he couldn't afford to have his teeth helped and he went and jumped off the Golden Gate Bridge because that's how tormented in pain he was and that was the extreme measure he decided to take to end his pain, by ending his life and I read that article and the rememberence of it is still with me that's how much it affected me.

I do not care what anyone says that sort of situation is wrong on all levels and is immoral, having to kill yourself because you have no health insurance and you need medical attention.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Grampa you have a dilemma but all signs point to a drug problem. He may not want to go,to,the doctor for the blood test and he may be doing drugs for the pain. Having been in the restaurant business he may have been exposed to the culture. Sit the boy down. Tell him he has not been himself and job performance is suffering and that is just not like him, but it can’t keep going on like this. Say you two have been together for a long time and you are concerned about him. Ask him if there are any problems at home or if there is anything bothering him because now is the time to get it off your chest. Tell him you want to help him but you can’t if you don’t know what the problem is. Make him an appointment with your doctor and tell him if he doesn’t keep it don’t bother coming back to work. Pay for it yourself. Your doctor can not divulge what transpires at the appointment but at least you can be sure that the appointment happened.

And gramps sometimes you have to be a little sneaky. You must know some of his friends. Ask them innocently if the guy has been acting differently lately cause he just doesn’t seem to be himself. Investigate on the qt. While I always hope for the best I am most often disappointed, but there is always a chance you can not only help his physical but his mental state too. If not, cut him loose. Good luck.

His woman has access to pharmaceuticals but I would doubt that he's doing that. He does like his whiskey, more than me and you all know me lol.

This is me right now. My stress level is through the roof and my good friend Maker is helping me out. Sadly I have to work tomorrow no thanks to Scott so I can not have the in depth therapy session I need.

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

Grampa you have a dilemma but all signs point to a drug problem. He may not want to go,to,the doctor for the blood test and he may be doing drugs for the pain. Having been in the restaurant business he may have been exposed to the culture. Sit the boy down. Tell him he has not been himself and job performance is suffering and that is just not like him, but it can’t keep going on like this. Say you two have been together for a long time and you are concerned about him. Ask him if there are any problems at home or if there is anything bothering him because now is the time to get it off your chest. Tell him you want to help him but you can’t if you don’t know what the problem is. Make him an appointment with your doctor and tell him if he doesn’t keep it don’t bother coming back to work. Pay for it yourself. Your doctor can not divulge what transpires at the appointment but at least you can be sure that the appointment happened.

And gramps sometimes you have to be a little sneaky. You must know some of his friends. Ask them innocently if the guy has been acting differently lately cause he just doesn’t seem to be himself. Investigate on the qt. While I always hope for the best I am most often disappointed, but there is always a chance you can not only help his physical but his mental state too. If not, cut him loose. Good luck.

"Grampa you have a dilemma but all signs point to a drug problem."

How do you get this from what Grampa has posted about his friend?

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Thank you all for the responses.

It is helpful despite how nasty we can be.

 

[evenflow1969]

Laid him off last week after a job was butchered. He has been complaining since early summer about physical ailments and I've told him regularly to goto the damn doctor. It has gotten to the point that it is severely affecting his reliability & skill.
Last week I told him to take some time off and get to the doctor. I've called him every day and asked what the doctors had to say and he's said "I haven't gone yet".
Today he informed me that he's feeling fine and ready to go. Thing is I've heard this before a dozen times.

I feel like I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. The man has given me 16 loyal years and i consider him a friend but the judgment & quality of his work has slipped dramatically. Not to mention almost every remodel has gone over the allotted time by 2 to 5 days in the last few months. While that may not sound like a lot it is a schedule busting nightmare and is costing me a fortune in lost income.
I am TRUELY tortured with this decision.

Any constructive feedback would be appreciated.

Is he falling out? Does he look tired and sleepy all the time? After 16 years of good service, then all of a sudden these issues, it may be a drug problem. Also could be marriage issues. Good help is hard to find. Especially help that can over see entire projects. Tough decision. May be put some one inside the job to watch and see what has changed. Maybe demote for a while until issues are gone. If they do not go away then you gotta do what ya gotta do!

 

[Flopper]

I've been where you are.

Laid him off last week after a job was butchered. He has been complaining since early summer about physical ailments and I've told him regularly to goto the damn doctor. It has gotten to the point that it is severely affecting his reliability & skill.
Last week I told him to take some time off and get to the doctor. I've called him every day and asked what the doctors had to say and he's said "I haven't gone yet".
Today he informed me that he's feeling fine and ready to go. Thing is I've heard this before a dozen times.

I feel like I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. The man has given me 16 loyal years and i consider him a friend but the judgment & quality of his work has slipped dramatically. Not to mention almost every remodel has gone over the allotted time by 2 to 5 days in the last few months. While that may not sound like a lot it is a schedule busting nightmare and is costing me a fortune in lost income.
I am TRUELY tortured with this decision.

Any constructive feedback would be appreciated.

As the boss, it is your responsibility to make the hard decisions. Your job is to look after the business first. I suggest, you give this employee the goals he must meet to keep his job. If he does not meet those goals and can't offer a satisfactory explanation for not doing so, then you should terminate his employment. That may be hard for you, but that is the job. It's one thing to carry an employee over the rough spots. However, you are responsible for running a business, not a charity.

 

[Shrimpbox]

Well said flop. And gramps, you hint that your health is going downhill too with such a high stress level. That is never worth it. Just like flopper said, you have to ask yourself who is running the show, you or the employees.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

I've been where you are.

Laid him off last week after a job was butchered. He has been complaining since early summer about physical ailments and I've told him regularly to goto the damn doctor. It has gotten to the point that it is severely affecting his reliability & skill.
Last week I told him to take some time off and get to the doctor. I've called him every day and asked what the doctors had to say and he's said "I haven't gone yet".
Today he informed me that he's feeling fine and ready to go. Thing is I've heard this before a dozen times.

I feel like I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. The man has given me 16 loyal years and i consider him a friend but the judgment & quality of his work has slipped dramatically. Not to mention almost every remodel has gone over the allotted time by 2 to 5 days in the last few months. While that may not sound like a lot it is a schedule busting nightmare and is costing me a fortune in lost income.
I am TRUELY tortured with this decision.

Any constructive feedback would be appreciated.

As the boss, it is your responsibility to make the hard decisions. Your job is to look after the business first. I suggest, you give this employee the goals he must meet to keep his job. If he does not meet those goals and can't offer a satisfactory explanation for not doing so, then you should terminate his employment. That may be hard for you, but that is the job. It's one thing to carry an employee over the rough spots. However, you are responsible for running a business, not a charity.

I hear you. About 12 years ago I got a dwi. He had very little knowledge or skill at that point but he showed up every morning to take me to the jobsites as I had no license.
Loyalty to me, means I am in your debt.
I don't ever drink and drive anymore but I remember when someone spends that time to help me in my time of need.

Moral of this story for me is NEVER become friendly with your help.

 

[Flopper]

I've been where you are.

Laid him off last week after a job was butchered. He has been complaining since early summer about physical ailments and I've told him regularly to goto the damn doctor. It has gotten to the point that it is severely affecting his reliability & skill.
Last week I told him to take some time off and get to the doctor. I've called him every day and asked what the doctors had to say and he's said "I haven't gone yet".
Today he informed me that he's feeling fine and ready to go. Thing is I've heard this before a dozen times.

I feel like I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. The man has given me 16 loyal years and i consider him a friend but the judgment & quality of his work has slipped dramatically. Not to mention almost every remodel has gone over the allotted time by 2 to 5 days in the last few months. While that may not sound like a lot it is a schedule busting nightmare and is costing me a fortune in lost income.
I am TRUELY tortured with this decision.

Any constructive feedback would be appreciated.

As the boss, it is your responsibility to make the hard decisions. Your job is to look after the business first. I suggest, you give this employee the goals he must meet to keep his job. If he does not meet those goals and can't offer a satisfactory explanation for not doing so, then you should terminate his employment. That may be hard for you, but that is the job. It's one thing to carry an employee over the rough spots. However, you are responsible for running a business, not a charity.

I hear you. About 12 years ago I got a dwi. He had very little knowledge or skill at that point but he showed up every morning to take me to the jobsites as I had no license.
Loyalty to me, means I am in your debt.
I don't ever drink and drive anymore but I remember when someone spends that time to help me in my time of need.

Moral of this story for me is NEVER become friendly with your help.

If you feel a loyalty to this employee, then the question is how long can you carry him with his current performance. IMHO, he has to share with you his problem if he expects you to help him. I have had hundreds of employees working for me over the last 40 years. I have had employees that have had sharp reductions in job performance with no explanation offered. To the best of my memory, I have had terminate all them.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

I've been where you are.

Laid him off last week after a job was butchered. He has been complaining since early summer about physical ailments and I've told him regularly to goto the damn doctor. It has gotten to the point that it is severely affecting his reliability & skill.
Last week I told him to take some time off and get to the doctor. I've called him every day and asked what the doctors had to say and he's said "I haven't gone yet".
Today he informed me that he's feeling fine and ready to go. Thing is I've heard this before a dozen times.

I feel like I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. The man has given me 16 loyal years and i consider him a friend but the judgment & quality of his work has slipped dramatically. Not to mention almost every remodel has gone over the allotted time by 2 to 5 days in the last few months. While that may not sound like a lot it is a schedule busting nightmare and is costing me a fortune in lost income.
I am TRUELY tortured with this decision.

Any constructive feedback would be appreciated.

As the boss, it is your responsibility to make the hard decisions. Your job is to look after the business first. I suggest, you give this employee the goals he must meet to keep his job. If he does not meet those goals and can't offer a satisfactory explanation for not doing so, then you should terminate his employment. That may be hard for you, but that is the job. It's one thing to carry an employee over the rough spots. However, you are responsible for running a business, not a charity.

I hear you. About 12 years ago I got a dwi. He had very little knowledge or skill at that point but he showed up every morning to take me to the jobsites as I had no license.
Loyalty to me, means I am in your debt.
I don't ever drink and drive anymore but I remember when someone spends that time to help me in my time of need.

Moral of this story for me is NEVER become friendly with your help.

If you feel a loyalty to this employee, then the question is how long can you carry him with his current performance. IMHO, he has to share with you his problem if he expects you to help him. I have had hundreds of employees working for me over the last 40 years. I have had employees that have had sharp reductions in job performance with no explanation offered. To the best of my memory, I have had terminate all them.

I don't have hundreds. I'm small potatoes. At my largest I had 6 crews. Usually 3 per crew

 

[a loss for words]

I'v done that already. This has been an ongoing problem for near a year now.
The Last time it got bad I even demoted his pay dramatically. It cleared up and I put him back on a % salary.

I think I'm letting my friendship & emotions get in the way. I guess I'm just looking for reassurance that doing the business dick thing is ok cause my own emotions won't let me pull the trigger.

Having said that just talking it out in this thread has given me an idea. Maybe I could take in small bullshit projects that I normally wouldn't even consider and feed them to him at a 70 or 80% rate. Keep him from becoming direct competition at my suppliers while still making a buck. If the quality still declines cut all deals. Essentially do his leg work getting the job, design & materials lined up?

Dumb idea based on a few drinks or legit option?

Dumb idea. You must like him a lot, but thi is your retirement he is playing with.

Tell him sorry. And cut him loose

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

I'v done that already. This has been an ongoing problem for near a year now.
The Last time it got bad I even demoted his pay dramatically. It cleared up and I put him back on a % salary.

I think I'm letting my friendship & emotions get in the way. I guess I'm just looking for reassurance that doing the business dick thing is ok cause my own emotions won't let me pull the trigger.

Having said that just talking it out in this thread has given me an idea. Maybe I could take in small bullshit projects that I normally wouldn't even consider and feed them to him at a 70 or 80% rate. Keep him from becoming direct competition at my suppliers while still making a buck. If the quality still declines cut all deals. Essentially do his leg work getting the job, design & materials lined up?

Dumb idea based on a few drinks or legit option?

Dumb idea. You must like him a lot, but thi is your retirement he is playing with.

Tell him sorry. And cut him loose

Thanks for contributing

 

[Likkmee]

Suspend him until he gets a doctor's note about the problem. The note should state when his fitness is expected to return.

THIS is a good plan.You've made each other money over the years but you da boss and plan on going forward. If he wants to be part of the show. Here ya go. Ol fury aint as dumb as he looks ;-)

 

[Coyote]

Lots of good ideas here...I could never be a good businessman because I would hate firing anyone. It sounds like all the best solutions are going to be contingent on his seeing a doctor first.

 

[Flopper]

Lots of good ideas here...I could never be a good businessman because I would hate firing anyone. It sounds like all the best solutions are going to be contingent on his seeing a doctor first.

Getting fired is not the end of the world. In fact, for many people it is a turning point in their lives leading to career changes, returning to school, or relocating.

 

[a loss for words]

Lots of good ideas here...I could never be a good businessman because I would hate firing anyone. It sounds like all the best solutions are going to be contingent on his seeing a doctor first.

Getting fired is not the end of the world. In fact, for many people it is a turning point in their lives leading to career changes, returning to school, or relocating.

one time I was let go because the place I was lost a major contract. I was bummed, I found it a miserable process to get a new job. I hated the place I was working, the pay was horrible. but it was a job. I Applied at a bank just because. I didn't think I would get it. I got hired at a wage $2.50 more an hour and I worked there 13 years and the job was infinitely more satisfying. Being let go from that first job was the best thing that ever happened to me. I still remember how much I grumbled about it.

 

[Flopper]

Lots of good ideas here...I could never be a good businessman because I would hate firing anyone. It sounds like all the best solutions are going to be contingent on his seeing a doctor first.

Getting fired is not the end of the world. In fact, for many people it is a turning point in their lives leading to career changes, returning to school, or relocating.

one time I was let go because the place I was lost a major contract. I was bummed, I found it a miserable process to get a new job. I hated the place I was working, the pay was horrible. but it was a job. I Applied at a bank just because. I didn't think I would get it. I got hired at a wage $2.50 more an hour and I worked there 13 years and the job was infinitely more satisfying. Being let go from that first job was the best thing that ever happened to me. I still remember how much I grumbled about it.

Being let go from a job often leads you to a revaluation of your career.
Do I really like this type of work?
I'm I good at it?
Can I do better in another location?
Should I go back to school?

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Lots of good ideas here...I could never be a good businessman because I would hate firing anyone. It sounds like all the best solutions are going to be contingent on his seeing a doctor first.

Getting fired is not the end of the world. In fact, for many people it is a turning point in their lives leading to career changes, returning to school, or relocating.

56 years old is not the time to change careers.

Just meet him for beers. Told him the doctor visit was a must and even then returning to work in the same capacity was unlikely. Gave him another week to goto the doctor and said we could discuss the future AFTER that.
He wanted to skate by with a visit to one of those pop in clinics. Told him that wasn't sufficient and he needed an in depth examination.

I did learn that he has started smoking pot. Told me when he started and I told him when I think his decline started. I don' think he got it...

 

[Coyote]

Lots of good ideas here...I could never be a good businessman because I would hate firing anyone. It sounds like all the best solutions are going to be contingent on his seeing a doctor first.

Getting fired is not the end of the world. In fact, for many people it is a turning point in their lives leading to career changes, returning to school, or relocating.

56 years old is not the time to change careers.

Just meet him for beers. Told him the doctor visit was a must and even then returning to work in the same capacity was unlikely. Gave him another week to goto the doctor and said we could discuss the future AFTER that.
He wanted to skate by with a visit to one of those pop in clinics. Told him that wasn't sufficient and he needed an in depth examination.

I did learn that he has started smoking pot. Told me when he started and I told him when I think his decline started. I don' think he got it...

Agree at that age job loss can be catastrophic. Wonder if the pot is self medicating for pain? I agree with holding any possibility of coming back to a medical review. Tough position for you