I think I may have to fire my lead crewman.

Remodeling Maidiac

Diamond Member
Jun 13, 2011
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Laid him off last week after a job was butchered. He has been complaining since early summer about physical ailments and I've told him regularly to goto the damn doctor. It has gotten to the point that it is severely affecting his reliability & skill.
Last week I told him to take some time off and get to the doctor. I've called him every day and asked what the doctors had to say and he's said "I haven't gone yet".
Today he informed me that he's feeling fine and ready to go. Thing is I've heard this before a dozen times.

I feel like I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. The man has given me 16 loyal years and i consider him a friend but the judgment & quality of his work has slipped dramatically. Not to mention almost every remodel has gone over the allotted time by 2 to 5 days in the last few months. While that may not sound like a lot it is a schedule busting nightmare and is costing me a fortune in lost income.
I am TRUELY tortured with this decision.

Any constructive feedback would be appreciated.
 
Laid him off last week after a job was butchered. He has been complaining since early summer about physical ailments and I've told him regularly to goto the damn doctor. It has gotten to the point that it is severely affecting his reliability & skill.
Last week I told him to take some time off and get to the doctor. I've called him every day and asked what the doctors had to say and he's said "I haven't gone yet".
Today he informed me that he's feeling fine and ready to go. Thing is I've heard this before a dozen times.

I feel like I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. The man has given me 16 loyal years and i consider him a friend but the judgment & quality of his work has slipped dramatically. Not to mention almost every remodel has gone over the allotted time by 2 to 5 days in the last few months. While that may not sound like a lot it is a schedule busting nightmare and is costing me a fortune in lost income.
I am TRUELY tortured with this decision.

Any constructive feedback would be appreciated.

You know the answer- you just don't like it- it is a hard one.

I am not in your situation- but IF you have a desire to take him back- tell him he can't come back to work until he gets checked out by a doctor and gets the doctor;s okay.

And then tell him what you have told us- and said continuing with you is dependent on him
a) being there and
b) bringing his quality back up to what it used to be

And that the next time it slips he is out.

If you are up front with him- and deal with any medical condition he may actually have- I think you are doing the best you can do.

As a business man- you are probably better off getting rid of him- but you are also a human being- so do what you feel is right.
 
Laid him off last week after a job was butchered. He has been complaining since early summer about physical ailments and I've told him regularly to goto the damn doctor. It has gotten to the point that it is severely affecting his reliability & skill.
Last week I told him to take some time off and get to the doctor. I've called him every day and asked what the doctors had to say and he's said "I haven't gone yet".
Today he informed me that he's feeling fine and ready to go. Thing is I've heard this before a dozen times.

I feel like I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. The man has given me 16 loyal years and i consider him a friend but the judgment & quality of his work has slipped dramatically. Not to mention almost every remodel has gone over the allotted time by 2 to 5 days in the last few months. While that may not sound like a lot it is a schedule busting nightmare and is costing me a fortune in lost income.
I am TRUELY tortured with this decision.

Any constructive feedback would be appreciated.
Sounds like he's afraid of what the doctor might tell him.
 
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Laid him off last week after a job was butchered. He has been complaining since early summer about physical ailments and I've told him regularly to goto the damn doctor. It has gotten to the point that it is severely affecting his reliability & skill.
Last week I told him to take some time off and get to the doctor. I've called him every day and asked what the doctors had to say and he's said "I haven't gone yet".
Today he informed me that he's feeling fine and ready to go. Thing is I've heard this before a dozen times.

I feel like I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. The man has given me 16 loyal years and i consider him a friend but the judgment & quality of his work has slipped dramatically. Not to mention almost every remodel has gone over the allotted time by 2 to 5 days in the last few months. While that may not sound like a lot it is a schedule busting nightmare and is costing me a fortune in lost income.
I am TRUELY tortured with this decision.

Any constructive feedback would be appreciated.

You know the answer- you just don't like it- it is a hard one.

I am not in your situation- but IF you have a desire to take him back- tell him he can't come back to work until he gets checked out by a doctor and gets the doctor;s okay.

And then tell him what you have told us- and said continuing with you is dependent on him
a) being there and
b) bringing his quality back up to what it used to be

And that the next time it slips he is out.

If you are up front with him- and deal with any medical condition he may actually have- I think you are doing the best you can do.

As a business man- you are probably better off getting rid of him- but you are also a human being- so do what you feel is right.
You speak soundly I just don't know if I have it in me to put up with it anymore.
I feel like the only solution is to be on his jobsite everyday and for the money I'm paying him that's not going to happen.
I had planned to will the business, websites, equipment & customer base to him but now I'm stuck in this shitty box and don't know what to do.
The business side of me says CUT HIM LOOSE. The human side of me says try to help him but I'm tired of losing money.

FUUUUUUCK
 
Laid him off last week after a job was butchered. He has been complaining since early summer about physical ailments and I've told him regularly to goto the damn doctor. It has gotten to the point that it is severely affecting his reliability & skill.
Last week I told him to take some time off and get to the doctor. I've called him every day and asked what the doctors had to say and he's said "I haven't gone yet".
Today he informed me that he's feeling fine and ready to go. Thing is I've heard this before a dozen times.

I feel like I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. The man has given me 16 loyal years and i consider him a friend but the judgment & quality of his work has slipped dramatically. Not to mention almost every remodel has gone over the allotted time by 2 to 5 days in the last few months. While that may not sound like a lot it is a schedule busting nightmare and is costing me a fortune in lost income.
I am TRUELY tortured with this decision.

Any constructive feedback would be appreciated.

Could you give him a job that does not involve him doing anything physical/manual? If you can then you should, if you cannot then as crap as it's going to make you feel you are going to have to let him go.

Also I agree anyone who is sick and repeatedly avoids going to a doctor is afraid of what the doctor might find. This is not a good idea, many sicknesses can be combated if they have an early diagnosis, avoiding medical help is not the sensible thing to do.
 
Suspend him until he gets a doctor's note about the problem. The note should state when his fitness is expected to return.
That is a given no matter what choice I make.
Here's the one I'm facing. My tool shed was left unlocked on purpose because one said another wanted in it later. The other person had their own key. My pressure washer was stolen. The one who left it unlocked is expecting his vacation check.
I'm going to withhold his check and take out the price of a new pressure washer and then fire him. I imagine it will go to court but I think I will win.
 
Laid him off last week after a job was butchered. He has been complaining since early summer about physical ailments and I've told him regularly to goto the damn doctor. It has gotten to the point that it is severely affecting his reliability & skill.
Last week I told him to take some time off and get to the doctor. I've called him every day and asked what the doctors had to say and he's said "I haven't gone yet".
Today he informed me that he's feeling fine and ready to go. Thing is I've heard this before a dozen times.

I feel like I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. The man has given me 16 loyal years and i consider him a friend but the judgment & quality of his work has slipped dramatically. Not to mention almost every remodel has gone over the allotted time by 2 to 5 days in the last few months. While that may not sound like a lot it is a schedule busting nightmare and is costing me a fortune in lost income.
I am TRUELY tortured with this decision.

Any constructive feedback would be appreciated.
Since you like this guy as much as you do, maybe it's time for some communication before you pull the trigger. It's your responsibility to make sure he understands your expectations as clearly as possible. If this happens, then that will happen.

I'd sit him down and tell him what you told us. And then tell him that this will be has last opportunity.

If it happens again, he can't say that you didn't warn him. And then you can sleep at night.
.
 
Laid him off last week after a job was butchered. He has been complaining since early summer about physical ailments and I've told him regularly to goto the damn doctor. It has gotten to the point that it is severely affecting his reliability & skill.
Last week I told him to take some time off and get to the doctor. I've called him every day and asked what the doctors had to say and he's said "I haven't gone yet".
Today he informed me that he's feeling fine and ready to go. Thing is I've heard this before a dozen times.

I feel like I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. The man has given me 16 loyal years and i consider him a friend but the judgment & quality of his work has slipped dramatically. Not to mention almost every remodel has gone over the allotted time by 2 to 5 days in the last few months. While that may not sound like a lot it is a schedule busting nightmare and is costing me a fortune in lost income.
I am TRUELY tortured with this decision.

Any constructive feedback would be appreciated.

Could you give him a job that does not involve him doing anything physical/manual? If you can then you should, if you cannot then as crap as it's going to make you feel you are going to have to let him go.

Also I agree anyone who is sick and repeatedly avoids going to a doctor is afraid of what the doctor might find. This is not a good idea, many sicknesses can be combated if they have an early diagnosis, avoiding medical help is not the sensible thing to do.
Of course this isn't Austria, so going to the doctor probably costs money... 20 years ago my girlfriend had a sister who was a social worker in Germany. She told her to go to rehab dot-dot-dot cost my girlfriend $12,000... She did not have...
 
Laid him off last week after a job was butchered. He has been complaining since early summer about physical ailments and I've told him regularly to goto the damn doctor. It has gotten to the point that it is severely affecting his reliability & skill.
Last week I told him to take some time off and get to the doctor. I've called him every day and asked what the doctors had to say and he's said "I haven't gone yet".
Today he informed me that he's feeling fine and ready to go. Thing is I've heard this before a dozen times.

I feel like I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. The man has given me 16 loyal years and i consider him a friend but the judgment & quality of his work has slipped dramatically. Not to mention almost every remodel has gone over the allotted time by 2 to 5 days in the last few months. While that may not sound like a lot it is a schedule busting nightmare and is costing me a fortune in lost income.
I am TRUELY tortured with this decision.

Any constructive feedback would be appreciated.

Could you give him a job that does not involve him doing anything physical/manual? If you can then you should, if you cannot then as crap as it's going to make you feel you are going to have to let him go.

Also I agree anyone who is sick and repeatedly avoids going to a doctor is afraid of what the doctor might find. This is not a good idea, many sicknesses can be combated if they have an early diagnosis, avoiding medical help is not the sensible thing to do.
I wish I could but I have tried giving him estimate responsibilities and he's such a easy going nice guy he always tries to "throw in" shit that should be paid for.
Design and blueprints isn't going to happen because he has no training or schooling in it. He was a chef when i convinced him to switch careers. He always complained about the hours & the stress of his former job.
That's how we met, he had cooked me food several times and we just started talking about our careers.

And I sense you guys may be right on the medical front. I have seen him struggle with his pain but he always says it's no big deal.

This last job was the final straw. I had over two hundred feet of custom marble trim for the job and he tried to do the job without using it.
The customer lost her shit on me and said he worked really hard and it was my fault it wasn't done properly. This was a customer I had had him work for on another project a decade earlier. It got so bad that she refused to pay for the plumbing and electrical supplies that I had to supply to connect her absurdly over priced purchases that she made WITH MY WHOLESALE DISCOUNT.
 
Laid him off last week after a job was butchered. He has been complaining since early summer about physical ailments and I've told him regularly to goto the damn doctor. It has gotten to the point that it is severely affecting his reliability & skill.
Last week I told him to take some time off and get to the doctor. I've called him every day and asked what the doctors had to say and he's said "I haven't gone yet".
Today he informed me that he's feeling fine and ready to go. Thing is I've heard this before a dozen times.

I feel like I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. The man has given me 16 loyal years and i consider him a friend but the judgment & quality of his work has slipped dramatically. Not to mention almost every remodel has gone over the allotted time by 2 to 5 days in the last few months. While that may not sound like a lot it is a schedule busting nightmare and is costing me a fortune in lost income.
I am TRUELY tortured with this decision.

Any constructive feedback would be appreciated.
Since you like this guy as much as you do, maybe it's time for some communication before you pull the trigger. It's your responsibility to make sure he understands your expectations as clearly as possible. If this happens, then that will happen.

I'd sit him down and tell him what you told us. And then tell him that this will be has last opportunity.

If it happens again, he can't say that you didn't warn him. And then you can sleep at night.
.
I'v done that already. This has been an ongoing problem for near a year now.
The Last time it got bad I even demoted his pay dramatically. It cleared up and I put him back on a % salary.

I think I'm letting my friendship & emotions get in the way. I guess I'm just looking for reassurance that doing the business dick thing is ok cause my own emotions won't let me pull the trigger.

Having said that just talking it out in this thread has given me an idea. Maybe I could take in small bullshit projects that I normally wouldn't even consider and feed them to him at a 70 or 80% rate. Keep him from becoming direct competition at my suppliers while still making a buck. If the quality still declines cut all deals. Essentially do his leg work getting the job, design & materials lined up?

Dumb idea based on a few drinks or legit option?
 
Laid him off last week after a job was butchered. He has been complaining since early summer about physical ailments and I've told him regularly to goto the damn doctor. It has gotten to the point that it is severely affecting his reliability & skill.
Last week I told him to take some time off and get to the doctor. I've called him every day and asked what the doctors had to say and he's said "I haven't gone yet".
Today he informed me that he's feeling fine and ready to go. Thing is I've heard this before a dozen times.

I feel like I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. The man has given me 16 loyal years and i consider him a friend but the judgment & quality of his work has slipped dramatically. Not to mention almost every remodel has gone over the allotted time by 2 to 5 days in the last few months. While that may not sound like a lot it is a schedule busting nightmare and is costing me a fortune in lost income.
I am TRUELY tortured with this decision.

Any constructive feedback would be appreciated.
Since you like this guy as much as you do, maybe it's time for some communication before you pull the trigger. It's your responsibility to make sure he understands your expectations as clearly as possible. If this happens, then that will happen.

I'd sit him down and tell him what you told us. And then tell him that this will be has last opportunity.

If it happens again, he can't say that you didn't warn him. And then you can sleep at night.
.
I'v done that already. This has been an ongoing problem for near a year now.
The Last time it got bad I even demoted his pay dramatically. It cleared up and I put him back on a % salary.

I think I'm letting my friendship & emotions get in the way. I guess I'm just looking for reassurance that doing the business dick thing is ok cause my own emotions won't let me pull the trigger.

Having said that just talking it out in this thread has given me an idea. Maybe I could take in small bullshit projects that I normally wouldn't even consider and feed them to him at a 70 or 80% rate. Keep him from becoming direct competition at my suppliers while still making a buck. If the quality still declines cut all deals. Essentially do his leg work getting the job, design & materials lined up?

Dumb idea based on a few drinks or legit option?
I don't see a problem with that, if he'll do it. Who knows, maybe he'd welcome the idea, knowing that you're not happy. A change like that can be a new start.

You can only do so much. If you have made this clear and it's still happening, you can do what's best for the business with a clear conscience.
.
 
Laid him off last week after a job was butchered. He has been complaining since early summer about physical ailments and I've told him regularly to goto the damn doctor. It has gotten to the point that it is severely affecting his reliability & skill.
Last week I told him to take some time off and get to the doctor. I've called him every day and asked what the doctors had to say and he's said "I haven't gone yet".
Today he informed me that he's feeling fine and ready to go. Thing is I've heard this before a dozen times.

I feel like I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. The man has given me 16 loyal years and i consider him a friend but the judgment & quality of his work has slipped dramatically. Not to mention almost every remodel has gone over the allotted time by 2 to 5 days in the last few months. While that may not sound like a lot it is a schedule busting nightmare and is costing me a fortune in lost income.
I am TRUELY tortured with this decision.

Any constructive feedback would be appreciated.
Since you like this guy as much as you do, maybe it's time for some communication before you pull the trigger. It's your responsibility to make sure he understands your expectations as clearly as possible. If this happens, then that will happen.

I'd sit him down and tell him what you told us. And then tell him that this will be has last opportunity.

If it happens again, he can't say that you didn't warn him. And then you can sleep at night.
.
I'v done that already. This has been an ongoing problem for near a year now.
The Last time it got bad I even demoted his pay dramatically. It cleared up and I put him back on a % salary.

I think I'm letting my friendship & emotions get in the way. I guess I'm just looking for reassurance that doing the business dick thing is ok cause my own emotions won't let me pull the trigger.

Having said that just talking it out in this thread has given me an idea. Maybe I could take in small bullshit projects that I normally wouldn't even consider and feed them to him at a 70 or 80% rate. Keep him from becoming direct competition at my suppliers while still making a buck. If the quality still declines cut all deals. Essentially do his leg work getting the job, design & materials lined up?

Dumb idea based on a few drinks or legit option?
You got grandchildren to RAISE. That demands you protect your assets for their raising first.
Fire him!
 
Laid him off last week after a job was butchered. He has been complaining since early summer about physical ailments and I've told him regularly to goto the damn doctor. It has gotten to the point that it is severely affecting his reliability & skill.
Last week I told him to take some time off and get to the doctor. I've called him every day and asked what the doctors had to say and he's said "I haven't gone yet".
Today he informed me that he's feeling fine and ready to go. Thing is I've heard this before a dozen times.

I feel like I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. The man has given me 16 loyal years and i consider him a friend but the judgment & quality of his work has slipped dramatically. Not to mention almost every remodel has gone over the allotted time by 2 to 5 days in the last few months. While that may not sound like a lot it is a schedule busting nightmare and is costing me a fortune in lost income.
I am TRUELY tortured with this decision.

Any constructive feedback would be appreciated.

Could you give him a job that does not involve him doing anything physical/manual? If you can then you should, if you cannot then as crap as it's going to make you feel you are going to have to let him go.

Also I agree anyone who is sick and repeatedly avoids going to a doctor is afraid of what the doctor might find. This is not a good idea, many sicknesses can be combated if they have an early diagnosis, avoiding medical help is not the sensible thing to do.
Of course this isn't Austria, so going to the doctor probably costs money... 20 years ago my girlfriend had a sister who was a social worker in Germany. She told her to go to rehab dot-dot-dot cost my girlfriend $12,000... She did not have...

We have a two tier health system so basically everyone if they need medical attention this is provided from public funding and we have the choice of getting private medical insurance, my family that is my entire family have always paid privately for any medical attention we have needed. We also do not have something like the British have the NHS and the NHS in Britain is not a good system IMHO.

What happens in America if someone has an accident and they have no health insurance do they turn them down or what happens?

That also could be why or a combination of why Grampa's friend is afraid of what doctors tests will tell him and also the cost of the tests.
 
Laid him off last week after a job was butchered. He has been complaining since early summer about physical ailments and I've told him regularly to goto the damn doctor. It has gotten to the point that it is severely affecting his reliability & skill.
Last week I told him to take some time off and get to the doctor. I've called him every day and asked what the doctors had to say and he's said "I haven't gone yet".
Today he informed me that he's feeling fine and ready to go. Thing is I've heard this before a dozen times.

I feel like I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. The man has given me 16 loyal years and i consider him a friend but the judgment & quality of his work has slipped dramatically. Not to mention almost every remodel has gone over the allotted time by 2 to 5 days in the last few months. While that may not sound like a lot it is a schedule busting nightmare and is costing me a fortune in lost income.
I am TRUELY tortured with this decision.

Any constructive feedback would be appreciated.



Let him have tomorrow and if it’s the same thing let him clearly know, maybe remind him what is expected and that he should know what’s expected after 16 years of working together. Good guys are hard to come by, really hard, but if he can’t or won’t keep up then tell him he will have to go. Just do not be angrey or annoyed. You ain’t dogging his ass, y’all are working it out.
 
Laid him off last week after a job was butchered. He has been complaining since early summer about physical ailments and I've told him regularly to goto the damn doctor. It has gotten to the point that it is severely affecting his reliability & skill.
Last week I told him to take some time off and get to the doctor. I've called him every day and asked what the doctors had to say and he's said "I haven't gone yet".
Today he informed me that he's feeling fine and ready to go. Thing is I've heard this before a dozen times.

I feel like I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. The man has given me 16 loyal years and i consider him a friend but the judgment & quality of his work has slipped dramatically. Not to mention almost every remodel has gone over the allotted time by 2 to 5 days in the last few months. While that may not sound like a lot it is a schedule busting nightmare and is costing me a fortune in lost income.
I am TRUELY tortured with this decision.

Any constructive feedback would be appreciated.

Could you give him a job that does not involve him doing anything physical/manual? If you can then you should, if you cannot then as crap as it's going to make you feel you are going to have to let him go.

Also I agree anyone who is sick and repeatedly avoids going to a doctor is afraid of what the doctor might find. This is not a good idea, many sicknesses can be combated if they have an early diagnosis, avoiding medical help is not the sensible thing to do.
I wish I could but I have tried giving him estimate responsibilities and he's such a easy going nice guy he always tries to "throw in" shit that should be paid for.
Design and blueprints isn't going to happen because he has no training or schooling in it. He was a chef when i convinced him to switch careers. He always complained about the hours & the stress of his former job.
That's how we met, he had cooked me food several times and we just started talking about our careers.

And I sense you guys may be right on the medical front. I have seen him struggle with his pain but he always says it's no big deal.

This last job was the final straw. I had over two hundred feet of custom marble trim for the job and he tried to do the job without using it.
The customer lost her shit on me and said he worked really hard and it was my fault it wasn't done properly. This was a customer I had had him work for on another project a decade earlier. It got so bad that she refused to pay for the plumbing and electrical supplies that I had to supply to connect her absurdly over priced purchases that she made WITH MY WHOLESALE DISCOUNT.

You'll have to do what Fury says, you'll have to sit him down and explain what you explain in this thread and also I agree he should be told in the gentlest way possible that he does no work until he gets a doctors note re. his exact fitness level.

"I had over two hundred feet of custom marble trim for the job and he tried to do the job without using it. The customer lost her shit on me and said he worked really hard and it was my fault it wasn't done properly. This was a customer I had had him work for on another project a decade earlier. It got so bad that she refused to pay for the plumbing and electrical supplies that I had to supply to connect her absurdly over priced purchases that she made WITH MY WHOLESALE DISCOUNT."

That's bad, he's lost it completely, you need to deal with this ASAP not only are you losing money but if it continues you are going to lose customers.
 
Laid him off last week after a job was butchered. He has been complaining since early summer about physical ailments and I've told him regularly to goto the damn doctor. It has gotten to the point that it is severely affecting his reliability & skill.
Last week I told him to take some time off and get to the doctor. I've called him every day and asked what the doctors had to say and he's said "I haven't gone yet".
Today he informed me that he's feeling fine and ready to go. Thing is I've heard this before a dozen times.

I feel like I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. The man has given me 16 loyal years and i consider him a friend but the judgment & quality of his work has slipped dramatically. Not to mention almost every remodel has gone over the allotted time by 2 to 5 days in the last few months. While that may not sound like a lot it is a schedule busting nightmare and is costing me a fortune in lost income.
I am TRUELY tortured with this decision.

Any constructive feedback would be appreciated.
Since you like this guy as much as you do, maybe it's time for some communication before you pull the trigger. It's your responsibility to make sure he understands your expectations as clearly as possible. If this happens, then that will happen.

I'd sit him down and tell him what you told us. And then tell him that this will be has last opportunity.

If it happens again, he can't say that you didn't warn him. And then you can sleep at night.
.
I'v done that already. This has been an ongoing problem for near a year now.
The Last time it got bad I even demoted his pay dramatically. It cleared up and I put him back on a % salary.

I think I'm letting my friendship & emotions get in the way. I guess I'm just looking for reassurance that doing the business dick thing is ok cause my own emotions won't let me pull the trigger.

Having said that just talking it out in this thread has given me an idea. Maybe I could take in small bullshit projects that I normally wouldn't even consider and feed them to him at a 70 or 80% rate. Keep him from becoming direct competition at my suppliers while still making a buck. If the quality still declines cut all deals. Essentially do his leg work getting the job, design & materials lined up?

Dumb idea based on a few drinks or legit option?
You got grandchildren to RAISE. That demands you protect your assets for their raising first.
Fire him!

Yes but Grampa must be gentle about it, think how bad his friend is going to feel he probably already knows he's not physically capable of doing this work anymore so he already would be feeling bad about the situation.

You can't just fire someone like that you have to think of the kindest way to do it that doesn't crush them emotionally.
 
Tell him that you are concerned about him and you feel he should have a physical and a Dr. to sign off on his return to work. If he asks why, be frank about his work performance. It help relieve you of liability if something should go wrong, and protects your worker if should there be a problem he isn't aware of.
 

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