I never thought I'd see the day...

[Plasmaball]

who?

Perhaps not overtly, but there exists a faction of people who believe the president( must be lib progressive) should be an ultimate authority figure free to set aside the Constitution when he or she sees fit.
This is exhibited in the oft used "I think the president should be able to..."

Actually wrong. It's the neo cons that feel that way. Hence the patriot act. Also please will one of you fucking coward right wingers tell me what American Obama has ordered the death of.

no you are both wrong. There is certain factions within both parties that tend to support a sitting President regardless of what they do. It tends to hover around 20% give or take.

Bush has the Patriot act and wiretapping. Things Obama pushed forward as well, Plus Ndaa ( which Romney supported as well).

you both are being dishonest about reality.

 

[Plasmaball]

Must be nice to sit behind a computer and call someone that.

oh trust me, i would call you one to your face as well.

No you wouldn't. Unless you would desire to see your face in need of medical attention.
Stop it. And stop using words you don't understand. Such as "trust".

oh no i would and if you decided to strike at me, well i would take proper action back.

 

[Lakhota]

I never thought I'd see the day...

Yeah, many of us were hoping...

 

[Plasmaball]

The right wing bluster is no sillier than your petty insults. But you're probably right. Most Americans today are frightened sheep, ready to do whatever they're told for fleeting promises of security.

Yeah I got called unamerican and a terrorist supporter for being against the Patriot Act.

Did that criticism really have any effect on your daily life? Move on.
BTW, I was not in support of certain provisions of the Patriot Act.
I thought the law in general was an over reaction to an otherwise scary time in our nation's history.
One issue though I could not fathom. That was certain people screaming about "phone taps" and monitoring of internet and telephone communications.
The fact is, the federal government had not with the Patriot Act, taken control of ISP's or the telcos.
The Patriot Act in theory was a good idea. However we can always count on politicians to muck up a good bill with a lot of horseshit piled into the final legislation.

um....It was shown in federal court that they where doing this and thus where told to stop.

But hey why be honest?

 

[Avatar4321]

...where there were actually Americans who are against the Constitution. And, not just one, but many, many Americans who are against the Constitution.

Never did I think I would see that. Stunning.

There are so many people ignorant of the Constitution, im not sure many know enough to be against it.

There are robbers among us. And they want to keep us ignorant and overthrow our freedom. Otherwise they might have to get a job.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Yes, our modern Gadianton robbers in secret combinations are found in organized crime and those gangs and militias with their secret identifications and passwords.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Well, that part of the right that sees Ron Paul as keeper of the true Constitution can be either comforted or dismayed that he has come out adamantly against the NRA's arming the schools plan.

 

[nodoginnafight]

...where there were actually Americans who are against the Constitution. And, not just one, but many, many Americans who are against the Constitution.

Never did I think I would see that. Stunning.

Those who voted to repeal prohibition were "against the constitution"
Those who voted to give blacks and women the vote were "against the constitution"
Those who voted to abolish slavery were "against the constitution"
Those who voted for the direct election of senators were "against the constitution"
Those who voted to limits presidents to two terms were "against the constitution"
Those who voted to abolished poll taxes were "against the constitution"
Those who voted to give 18 year olds the vote were "against the constitution"

etc ....

Now what are you "so shocked" about ?????

 

[boedicca]

...where there were actually Americans who are against the Constitution. And, not just one, but many, many Americans who are against the Constitution.

Never did I think I would see that. Stunning.

Those who voted to repeal prohibition were "against the constitution"
Those who voted to give blacks and women the vote were "against the constitution"
Those who voted to abolish slavery were "against the constitution"
Those who voted for the direct election of senators were "against the constitution"
Those who voted to limits presidents to two terms were "against the constitution"
Those who voted to abolished poll taxes were "against the constitution"
Those who voted to give 18 year olds the vote were "against the constitution"

etc ....

Now what are you "so shocked" about ?????

When someone plays The Race Card, he admits he has no valid argument, bub.

 

[nodoginnafight]

...where there were actually Americans who are against the Constitution. And, not just one, but many, many Americans who are against the Constitution.

Never did I think I would see that. Stunning.

Those who voted to repeal prohibition were "against the constitution"
Those who voted to give blacks and women the vote were "against the constitution"
Those who voted to abolish slavery were "against the constitution"
Those who voted for the direct election of senators were "against the constitution"
Those who voted to limits presidents to two terms were "against the constitution"
Those who voted to abolished poll taxes were "against the constitution"
Those who voted to give 18 year olds the vote were "against the constitution"

etc ....

Now what are you "so shocked" about ?????

When someone plays The Race Card, he admits he has no valid argument, bub.

when was "the race card" played?

 

[Avatar4321]

Yes, our modern Gadianton robbers in secret combinations are found in organized crime and those gangs and militias with their secret identifications and passwords.

They are in our government. They have corrupted both parties. They renamed Robbery - Redistribution and have convinced people that it's a good thing.

 

[g5000]

...where there were actually Americans who are against the Constitution. And, not just one, but many, many Americans who are against the Constitution.

Never did I think I would see that. Stunning.

You just got around to reading the Patriot Act, eh?

.

 

[Avatar4321]

Those who voted to repeal prohibition were "against the constitution"

No they weren't. They used the Constitution process to amend the Constitution. You can't be against something if you are using it.

Those who voted to give blacks and women the vote were "against the constitution"

No they weren't. The Constitution was never against blacks or women voting. In fact, both voted long before the amendment was added to the Constitution to preserve a right that already existed.

Those who voted to abolish slavery were "against the constitution"

Again, no, they used the amendment process. If you were against the Constitution, you would ignore it completely.

Those who voted for the direct election of senators were "against the constitution"

Again, Amendment process

Those who voted to limits presidents to two terms were "against the constitution"

Again amendment process

Those who voted to abolished poll taxes were "against the constitution"

What exactly does the poll tax have to do with the Constitution?

Those who voted to give 18 year olds the vote were "against the constitution"

Amendment process

etc ....

Now what are you "so shocked" about ?????

Just that people cant tell the difference between being against something and using the legitimate process to amend something.

 

[nodoginnafight]

They were against the constitution as written.
You're trying to play silly word games.

 

[JakeStarkey]

No, no, no: legal We the People taxation by our elected legislatures is not robbery. Those who attempt to avoid it in secret combinations are Gadiantons.

Yes, our modern Gadianton robbers in secret combinations are found in organized crime and those gangs and militias with their secret identifications and passwords.

They are in our government. They have corrupted both parties. They renamed Robbery - Redistribution and have convinced people that it's a good thing.

 

[emilynghiem]

...where there were actually Americans who are against the Constitution. And, not just one, but many, many Americans who are against the Constitution.

Never did I think I would see that. Stunning.

Would it help to put it in perspective:
by considering the centuries and countless lives lost to Crusades and Holy Wars, Inquisitions
and Genocides in the name of God and Christ that we can clearly see would be against
ANYTHING that God and Christ could truly stand for. If people could go against the Christian message to kill out of unforgivness and retribution, isn't it totally foreseeable how people could go against what the Govt and Constitution were written for, and do things in the name of Govt authority that totally contradict the spirit of the laws?

Also, look up the photos and video of the "everyday" people running the Concentration Camps in Nazi Germany. There is one photo showing a group of people posing and smiling on a bridge, where it is clear they were just regular folks who would stop and take a group photo like a small group would do at work. And in Peter Loth's testimonies about forgiveness and healing, he includes video footage that shows Nazi Christians stopping to sing "Christian hymnals" as if taking a break for church, before returning to the killing and torture of Jews.

The greatest tragedy is when we realize that from minor bullying incidents to major genocides, these involve regular people who really believe they are doing the right thing.

Please also have hope.

If it took mass corruption by Catholic authorities, twisting and abusing the meaning of Scripture and repentance/absolution to sell "indulgences" for economic and political gain,
before church members rose up and initiated the Reformation to govern themselves directly under God by scripture (without relying on church officials as their authority which they declared void) then the same type of Reformation is happening with Govt and laws which we should be following by the spirit, not by the letter which is corrupted by political greed.

If we follow and learn from history, we can gain the same benefits while avoiding the bloodshed. We can liberate the masses civilly by "redistribution of knowledge" of the laws,
which is the greatest wealth of all, the truth that sets us free from enslavement and strife.

 

[Avatar4321]

No, no, no: legal We the People taxation by our elected legislatures is not robbery. Those who attempt to avoid it in secret combinations are Gadiantons.

Yes, our modern Gadianton robbers in secret combinations are found in organized crime and those gangs and militias with their secret identifications and passwords.

They are in our government. They have corrupted both parties. They renamed Robbery - Redistribution and have convinced people that it's a good thing.

The use of force to redistribute money to those who did not earn it is robbery. Robbers love to use laws to legitimize their crimes to people. Those who are corrupted by them go along with them.

 

[Avatar4321]

They were against the constitution as written.
You're trying to play silly word games.

No. Not at all. Just speaking the truth. If you amend the Constitution using the Constitutional amendment process, you aren't going against the Constitution. You are using it. You are legitimizing the Constitution because you are recognizing it as the way to proceed.

We are talking about people who want to abolish the Constitution and put something else in it's place when we talk about being against the Constitution.

 

[nodoginnafight]

They were against the constitution as written.
You're trying to play silly word games.

No. Not at all. Just speaking the truth. If you amend the Constitution using the Constitutional amendment process, you aren't going against the Constitution. You are using it. You are legitimizing the Constitution because you are recognizing it as the way to proceed.

We are talking about people who want to abolish the Constitution and put something else in it's place when we talk about being against the Constitution.

which people are trying to abolish the constitution?

 

[emilynghiem]

They were against the constitution as written.
You're trying to play silly word games.

No. Not at all. Just speaking the truth. If you amend the Constitution using the Constitutional amendment process, you aren't going against the Constitution. You are using it. You are legitimizing the Constitution because you are recognizing it as the way to proceed.

We are talking about people who want to abolish the Constitution and put something else in it's place when we talk about being against the Constitution.

There is a whole gray area, where people have mastered the art of appearing to meet the "letter of the law" while completely subverting the spirit, meaning and purpose of the law.

Some examples:
(1) using the "given system legally" in ways that benefit and empower "corporate entities" and interests to have greater benefit and representation than regular individual citizens the laws were designed to protect. Where corporations claim civil rights and freedom as "individuals" but in fact wield collective influence, authority and resources (much like govt) WITHOUT having to answer to the same Bill of Rights that limits govt to protect individuals and states. This still follows the given laws, and appears to be "legal" but in spirit it is subverting the very reason we have the Bill of Rights to PREVENT the abuse of collective power of govt.
(2) the legal and political system, which normally are designed to provide defense and representation for people, are "legally" abused to override the voice and consent of the public and give unequal political favor to larger corporate interests with more influence on election campaigns and financing
(3) the secular trend of "separation of church and state" has been abused in a BIASED way to discriminate AGAINST certain religious views or groups, arguing this is to prevent from favoring them over secular, nontheist or atheist views. By the letter, it is argued that the govt should not be in the business of promoting religion publicly, but in spirit, such one-sided suits favor the secular side and thus risk ABRIDGING religious freedom of the other. The proper way to prevent govt authority from being abused to interfere with religious matters, either by imposing or by denying/obstructing religion, is to resolve conflicts DIRECTLY between the sides, where govt does not intervene at all, but people solve their own religious differences personally among themselves to protect their views equally.

These are just a few common examples of how people can abuse the political process to "follow the law" by the "letter" but overall, violate the very spirit and purpose of the law!