I guess the leftists better thank Dubya

[rdean]

I'm not interested in your Obama verses.

The FACT is that Bush stated his intent, and it appears to be going just like he said. Look like the middle east IS exploding in a massive move to democratically elected and free nations.

Put down your holy book, and THINK.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but did we ever find any WMD's in Iraq?

yes, just not the stockpiles that were expected

Then you disagree with Dick Cheney, George Bush, Colin Powell and Donald Rumsfeld?

In Rumsfeld's new book, he said Saddam was only "looking into acquiring" nuclear weapons, but didn't actually have any.

 

[jgarden]

I've taken the time to read through the declassified documents - and they say no such thing. I defy "DiveCon" to produce documented evidence that shows that the Reagan Administration was interested in maintaining the status quo or was interested in helping Iran!

Yep, no complaints from the left about the Reagan administration selling weapons to Iran....

None at all....


ROFL

There truly is no hypocrisy like demopocrisy..

Document 49: United States Embassy in Bahrain Cable from Donald Charles Seidel to the Department of State. "Middle East Mission: U.S. Efforts to Stop Arms Transfers to Iran," March 24, 1984.

In preparation for his second round of meetings with officials in Baghdad, Donald Rumsfeld asks for a list of the countries that the U.S. has approached in order to persuade them to cut off arms sales to Iran.

Source: Declassified under the Freedom of Information Act

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/#docs

Notice that throughout this whole "debate" not one of my conservative "friends" has bothered provide a specific reference or source to support any of their accusations!

 

[rdean]

yes, just not the stockpiles that were expected

Did they? Link?

sorry, its water under the bridge, and i didnt save links as the web is constantly changing and links tend to expire

You post links? Wow, I'm shocked. You've called me names in a hundred posts, called me a liar and never, not a single time did you post a link disproving anything I've said.

If you post links, post some for someone who would appreciate them. Me. I want to be convinced.

 

[gekaap]

Still, there is no denying that Bush openly claimed that establishing Iraq as a middle east democracy would drive nations throughout the region to rise up and demand what Iraq has.

There is no denying that this is EXACTLY what is occurring.

Yes, there IS room to question whether this is happening in any significant amount. And there is absolutely nothing to suggest that if it is happening, it's has anything to do with Iraq.

 

[DiveCon]

Did they? Link?

sorry, its water under the bridge, and i didnt save links as the web is constantly changing and links tend to expire

You post links? Wow, I'm shocked. You've called me names in a hundred posts, called me a liar and never, not a single time did you post a link disproving anything I've said.

If you post links, post some for someone who would appreciate them. Me. I want to be convinced.

you are too fucking stupid, finding links for you is a waste of time

 

[DiveCon]

I've taken the time to read through the declassified documents - and they say no such thing. I defy "DiveCon" to produce documented evidence that shows that the Reagan Administration was interested in maintaining the status quo or was interested in helping Iran!

Yep, no complaints from the left about the Reagan administration selling weapons to Iran....

None at all....


ROFL

There truly is no hypocrisy like demopocrisy..

Document 49: United States Embassy in Bahrain Cable from Donald Charles Seidel to the Department of State. "Middle East Mission: U.S. Efforts to Stop Arms Transfers to Iran," March 24, 1984.

In preparation for his second round of meetings with officials in Baghdad, Donald Rumsfeld asks for a list of the countries that the U.S. has approached in order to persuade them to cut off arms sales to Iran.

Source: Declassified under the Freedom of Information Act

Shaking Hands with Saddam Hussein

Notice that throughout this whole "debate" not one of my conservative "friends" has bothered provide a specific reference or source to support any of their accusations!

again, dipshit here doesnt remember Iran-Contra

 

[DiveCon]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but did we ever find any WMD's in Iraq?

yes, just not the stockpiles that were expected

Then you disagree with Dick Cheney, George Bush, Colin Powell and Donald Rumsfeld?

In Rumsfeld's new book, he said Saddam was only "looking into acquiring" nuclear weapons, but didn't actually have any.

you DO know that WMD means more than just nukes, right?

 

[jillian]

Saying something will happen, and then nearly 10 years later the first beginnings of a first step in taking a first step does not a fulfilled prophecy make.

I understand your discomfort, Reagan caused the USSR to collapse, now Bush is bringing democracy to the middle east.

Still, there is no denying that Bush openly claimed that establishing Iraq as a middle east democracy would drive nations throughout the region to rise up and demand what Iraq has.

There is no denying that this is EXACTLY what is occurring.

bush?

where are you idiots coming from?

 

[jillian]

sorry, its water under the bridge, and i didnt save links as the web is constantly changing and links tend to expire

You post links? Wow, I'm shocked. You've called me names in a hundred posts, called me a liar and never, not a single time did you post a link disproving anything I've said.

If you post links, post some for someone who would appreciate them. Me. I want to be convinced.

you are too fucking stupid, finding links for you is a waste of time

not as stupid as the O/P.

 

[xsited1]

{Something that looks an awful lot like democracy is beginning to take hold in Iraq. It may not be 'mission accomplished'—but it's a start.

"Iraqi democracy will succeed," President George W. Bush declared in November 2003, "and that success will send forth the news from Damascus to Tehran that freedom can be the future of every nation." The audience at the National Endowment for Democracy in Washington answered with hearty applause. Bush went on: "The establishment of a free Iraq at the heart of the Middle East will be a watershed event in the global democratic revolution."}

A Democratic Iraq Is Emerging - Newsweek


Well gawddamn - looks like Bush was 100% right.

As much as I despise GWB, history will judge whether he was right or not. But we may never recover from all the debt. If the Republicans hadn't spent money like drunken sailors, Pelosi, Reid and Obama - the really big spenders - would never have come to power. Americans have paid a high price.

 

[DiveCon]

You post links? Wow, I'm shocked. You've called me names in a hundred posts, called me a liar and never, not a single time did you post a link disproving anything I've said.

If you post links, post some for someone who would appreciate them. Me. I want to be convinced.

you are too fucking stupid, finding links for you is a waste of time

not as stupid as the O/P.

that might be debatable

 

[SFC Ollie]

{Something that looks an awful lot like democracy is beginning to take hold in Iraq. It may not be 'mission accomplished'—but it's a start.

"Iraqi democracy will succeed," President George W. Bush declared in November 2003, "and that success will send forth the news from Damascus to Tehran that freedom can be the future of every nation." The audience at the National Endowment for Democracy in Washington answered with hearty applause. Bush went on: "The establishment of a free Iraq at the heart of the Middle East will be a watershed event in the global democratic revolution."}

A Democratic Iraq Is Emerging - Newsweek


Well gawddamn - looks like Bush was 100% right.

As much as I despise GWB, history will judge whether he was right or not. But we may never recover from all the debt. If the Republicans hadn't spent money like drunken sailors, Pelosi, Reid and Obama - the really big spenders - would never have come to power. Americans have paid a high price.

Good point.

 

[midcan5]

I understand your discomfort, Reagan caused the USSR to collapse, now Bush is bringing democracy to the middle east.

Still, there is no denying that Bush openly claimed that establishing Iraq as a middle east democracy would drive nations throughout the region to rise up and demand what Iraq has.

There is no denying that this is EXACTLY what is occurring.

No one with any knowledge at all agrees with anything you wrote above. Russia collapsed from the inside and the changes with Khrushchev and Gorbachev were key parts of that change. So was time, which has a way of moving forward and causing changes in attitude that eventually lead to real change on the ground.

Egypt could be the biggest change for democracy in the middle east if it is a success. We shall see. Killing people in an illegal invasion and then paying them to be good is hardly admirable stuff. FactCheck.org: Is the U.S. government paying factions in Iraq not to fight us?

Here is an excellent piece on Iraq war. America, Orwell, Iraq: Michael Massing See also: [ame]http://www.amazon.com/What-Orwell-Didnt-Know-Propaganda/dp/1586485601/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8[/ame]


And for those interested in a bit of real history on Communism's fall see: [ame=http://www.amazon.com/Rise-Fall-Communism-Archie-Brown/dp/0061138797/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8]Amazon.com: The Rise and Fall of Communism (9780061138799): Archie Brown: Books[/ame]

 

[kiwiman127]

Oh cry me a river!

You lied, you got caught.


You're a leftist - obviously you have no integrity.

Secondly, what shameful party are you referring to? Sorry but unlike you, I don't need a party/ideology dictating my thought process,

Yep, you just lie for shits and giggles - not to promote the fascist agenda of the democratic party.

I mean, why wouldn't I take your word for it?

Now,,,what did I lie about, please be specific.

Secondly, I am not a member of any party. Considering how far right you are, Ronald Reagan looks like a liberal.

All you do is repeat the same old shit that all far right comedians repeat. Not to many original thoughts come out of your narrow thinking little mind. Your thoughts appeal to a narrow group of people.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Notice that throughout this whole "debate" not one of my conservative "friends" has bothered provide a specific reference or source to support any of their accusations!

You made a ridiculously foolish statement. The left has done nothing but scream about Reagan selling arms to the Iranians for 30 years.

What you did was to perfectly illustrate the fact that leftists say anything to smear the opposition with absolutely no regard for facts or reality.

You serve the party, you say whatever you need to promote the party. What you say today may contradict what you said yesterday - but it will serve the party.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Yes, there IS room to question whether this is happening in any significant amount. And there is absolutely nothing to suggest that if it is happening, it's has anything to do with Iraq.

So you'll hold your breath until you turn BLUE?

{Monday's protests saw thousands of people descend on central Tehran in support of the uprisings across Arab nations.

But Iranian politicians have called for opposition leaders to be handed the death penalty following the protests, accusing them of fomenting unrest.

"Mehdi Karroubi and Mirhossein Mousavi are corrupts on earth and should be tried," politicians were quoted as saying by the official Irna news agency.

The term "corrupt on earth", a charge which has been leveled at political dissidents in the past, carries the death penalty in the Islamic republic.}

Deaths reported in Iran protest - Middle East - Al Jazeera English

{Egypt's military rulers have appointed a retired judge to head a committee tasked with amending the constitution to allow for democratic elections later this year.}

Egypt's Military Appoints Panel to Amend Constitution | News | English

{The series of protests, which began Friday evening as a small demonstration in celebration of the resignation of Egypt's Hosni Mubarak, has swelled into daily, boisterous and violent clashes pitting antiregime protesters—many of them students and young activists—against pro-government supporters.

Human-rights activists have accused the pro-government supporters of using violence to intimidate protesters. In clashes on Monday, pro-government supporters threw rocks at demonstrators, according to eyewitnesses.}

Protests Swell in Yemen - WSJ.com

 

[BlindBoo]

UN Charter which we are bound to as a signatory was violated.

What you say is false, as you well know.

However, the UN Charter has no weight of law, much to the chagrin of the left, the USA is a sovereign nation not bound by the laws or edicts of foreign nations.

So in essence, there was no violation of law and you are just engaging in mindless demagoguery on behalf of your shameful party in an attempt to besmirch an enemy of your party.

The US is bound by its treaty obligations. Iraq did not attack us and was not in a position to do so.

Members of both Democrats and Republican voted to give the President the power. They both shame the US.

The enemy is foriegn interventionism. A path followed by both parties.

 

[BlindBoo]

Using the UN Resolutions that Iraq violated sure was popular for those who supported the invasion.
So sometimes the UN=good and sometimes the UN=bad,,,nothing like wanting it both ways.

UNSC Res. 1441 superceeded all resolution cited against Iraq. It was decided that a final round of weapons inspectors were to determine if Iraq had any of the items it was accuse of having. There was no military action clause in that resolution. Several members of the SC rejected the military clause. The SC agreed to reconvine to decide the next step if Saddam interfered with there job or if they found the Weapons the US alleged were there. They were not allowed to finish their job. As we well know the alleged WMD were never found by the UN or the US.

 

[BlindBoo]

jg wants to ignore that fact we helped both sides in that war, to maintain the status quo, and that saddam chose to start that one totally of his own design

I don't think the average leftist has the requisite intellect to comprehend the idea of playing both ends against the middle. Arming both sides was of course brilliant, adn kept the two dictatorships at each others throats for the better part of a decade.

Actually arming both sides in a war conflict is dispicable. Not only did it prolong the agony of war for both sides, mostly young uneducated Iranian/Iraqis draftees who were killed, but likely resulted in the Iraqi attack on the USS Stark which killed 37 sailors.

 

[BlindBoo]

I've taken the time to read through the declassified documents - and they say no such thing. I defy "DiveCon" to produce documented evidence that shows that the Reagan Administration was interested in maintaining the status quo or was interested in helping Iran!

Yep, no complaints from the left about the Reagan administration selling weapons to Iran....

None at all....


ROFL

There truly is no hypocrisy like demopocrisy..

You just have blinders on. The complaint was twofold. One, that he negociated with the Terrorist regime in Iran after saying publicly that he would not. The deal was that they would try and influence Hezbollah into releasing several hostages held in Lebanon. Two, his administration diverted the funds illegally to the a paramilitary group carryingout subversive activities against Nicaragua. Reagan was a criminal but he didn't remember it that way.......