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the UN resolution are why the charter wasnt violatedUsing the UN Resolutions that Iraq violated sure was popular for those who supported the invasion.
So sometimes the UN=good and sometimes the UN=bad,,,nothing like wanting it both ways.
With all due respect, the original rationale for the US invasion of Iraq, as presented by Colin Powell at the UN, was to capture and destroy the WMD that Saddam was hiding from the weapons inspectors.{Something that looks an awful lot like democracy is beginning to take hold in Iraq. It may not be 'mission accomplished'—but it's a start.
"Iraqi democracy will succeed," President George W. Bush declared in November 2003, "and that success will send forth the news from Damascus to Tehran that freedom can be the future of every nation." The audience at the National Endowment for Democracy in Washington answered with hearty applause. Bush went on: "The establishment of a free Iraq at the heart of the Middle East will be a watershed event in the global democratic revolution."}
A Democratic Iraq Is Emerging - Newsweek
Well gawddamn - looks like Bush was 100% right.
the UN resolution are why the charter wasnt violatedUsing the UN Resolutions that Iraq violated sure was popular for those who supported the invasion.
So sometimes the UN=good and sometimes the UN=bad,,,nothing like wanting it both ways.
With all due respect, the original rationale for the US invasion of Iraq, as presented by Colin Powell at the UN, was to capture and destroy the WMD that Saddam was hiding from the weapons inspectors.{Something that looks an awful lot like democracy is beginning to take hold in Iraq. It may not be 'mission accomplished'but it's a start.
"Iraqi democracy will succeed," President George W. Bush declared in November 2003, "and that success will send forth the news from Damascus to Tehran that freedom can be the future of every nation." The audience at the National Endowment for Democracy in Washington answered with hearty applause. Bush went on: "The establishment of a free Iraq at the heart of the Middle East will be a watershed event in the global democratic revolution."}
A Democratic Iraq Is Emerging - Newsweek
Well gawddamn - looks like Bush was 100% right.
As it turned out, the capacity to create such weapons was destryed during the bombing and Cruise missile attacks during the Clinton Administration. Bringing "democracy" to Iraq only became a objective on the Bush Administration's "wish-list" once the presence of WMD was discredited.
- the Bush Administration was wrong on the presence of WMD
- it was wrong when it argued there was a link between Saddam and Al Qaeda
- it selected a neo-conservative Secretary of Defence (Donald Rumsfeld) with "tunnel vision"
- key members of the Pentagon and the military resigned rather than work under a the autovratic Rumsfeld
- they were replaced by "yes-men" who knew their jobs depended on telling their superiors what they wanted to hear
- it totally ignored previous military studies on an Iraq invasion, prepared by General Zinni
- it refused send in enough troops required to patrol Iraq resulting in a "power vacuum
- with insufficient US troops to protest the population from widespread looting and terrorism, America lost the confidence of the Iraqi people
- because if troop limitations, it took a year before the US military even attempted to secure Iraq's border with Syria (which was allowed to become a major supplier of weapovs and cash for the "insurgents")
- Meyers, the newly arrived US civilian administrator, unilaterally disbanded the Iraqi military and dismissed all Bathist members from government without consulting the American military
- it failed to send in troops trained to combat urban terrorism
- it failed to allow decisive leadership, by dividing decision making between a military and a civilian administrators (who rarely communicated with each other
- civilian appointments were too short to get an understanding of the problems and used to reward Republican supporters
- military commanders were allowed to conduct indiscriminant "sweeps" that flooded the prisons with innocent largely bystanders and without the trained personale to interrogate them
- the Bush Administration was totally unprepared to restore the basic necessities - electricity, water, sewage, banking, access to food in the cities
Based on so many shortcomings of judgment, why should anybody have confidence in Bush's self-serving assessment that his Administration succeeded in the "establishment of a free Iraq at the heart of the Middle East will be a watershed event ....."
With all due respect, the original rationale for the US invasion of Iraq, as presented by Colin Powell at the UN, was to capture and destroy the WMD that Saddam was hiding from the weapons inspectors.{Something that looks an awful lot like democracy is beginning to take hold in Iraq. It may not be 'mission accomplished'but it's a start.
"Iraqi democracy will succeed," President George W. Bush declared in November 2003, "and that success will send forth the news from Damascus to Tehran that freedom can be the future of every nation." The audience at the National Endowment for Democracy in Washington answered with hearty applause. Bush went on: "The establishment of a free Iraq at the heart of the Middle East will be a watershed event in the global democratic revolution."}
A Democratic Iraq Is Emerging - Newsweek
Well gawddamn - looks like Bush was 100% right.
As it turned out, the capacity to create such weapons was destryed during the bombing and Cruise missile attacks during the Clinton Administration. Bringing "democracy" to Iraq only became a objective on the Bush Administration's "wish-list" once the presence of WMD was discredited.
- the Bush Administration was wrong on the presence of WMD
- it was wrong when it argued there was a link between Saddam and Al Qaeda
- it selected a neo-conservative Secretary of Defence (Donald Rumsfeld) with "tunnel vision"
- key members of the Pentagon and the military resigned rather than work under a the autovratic Rumsfeld
- they were replaced by "yes-men" who knew their jobs depended on telling their superiors what they wanted to hear
- it totally ignored previous military studies on an Iraq invasion, prepared by General Zinni
- it refused send in enough troops required to patrol Iraq resulting in a "power vacuum
- with insufficient US troops to protest the population from widespread looting and terrorism, America lost the confidence of the Iraqi people
- because if troop limitations, it took a year before the US military even attempted to secure Iraq's border with Syria (which was allowed to become a major supplier of weapovs and cash for the "insurgents")
- Meyers, the newly arrived US civilian administrator, unilaterally disbanded the Iraqi military and dismissed all Bathist members from government without consulting the American military
- it failed to send in troops trained to combat urban terrorism
- it failed to allow decisive leadership, by dividing decision making between a military and a civilian administrators (who rarely communicated with each other
- civilian appointments were too short to get an understanding of the problems and used to reward Republican supporters
- military commanders were allowed to conduct indiscriminant "sweeps" that flooded the prisons with innocent largely bystanders and without the trained personale to interrogate them
- the Bush Administration was totally unprepared to restore the basic necessities - electricity, water, sewage, banking, access to food in the cities
Based on so many shortcomings of judgment, why should anybody have confidence in Bush's self-serving assessment that his Administration succeeded in the "establishment of a free Iraq at the heart of the Middle East will be a watershed event ....."
The Oval Office
10:16 P.M. EST
THE PRESIDENT: My fellow citizens, at this hour, American and coalition forces are in the early stages of military operations to disarm Iraq, to free its people and to defend the world from grave danger.
except there was no "tranquility"With all due respect, the original rationale for the US invasion of Iraq, as presented by Colin Powell at the UN, was to capture and destroy the WMD that Saddam was hiding from the weapons inspectors.
As it turned out, the capacity to create such weapons was destryed during the bombing and Cruise missile attacks during the Clinton Administration. Bringing "democracy" to Iraq only became a objective on the Bush Administration's "wish-list" once the presence of WMD was discredited.
- the Bush Administration was wrong on the presence of WMD
- it was wrong when it argued there was a link between Saddam and Al Qaeda
- it selected a neo-conservative Secretary of Defence (Donald Rumsfeld) with "tunnel vision"
- key members of the Pentagon and the military resigned rather than work under a the autovratic Rumsfeld
- they were replaced by "yes-men" who knew their jobs depended on telling their superiors what they wanted to hear
- it totally ignored previous military studies on an Iraq invasion, prepared by General Zinni
- it refused send in enough troops required to patrol Iraq resulting in a "power vacuum
- with insufficient US troops to protest the population from widespread looting and terrorism, America lost the confidence of the Iraqi people
- because if troop limitations, it took a year before the US military even attempted to secure Iraq's border with Syria (which was allowed to become a major supplier of weapovs and cash for the "insurgents")
- Meyers, the newly arrived US civilian administrator, unilaterally disbanded the Iraqi military and dismissed all Bathist members from government without consulting the American military
- it failed to send in troops trained to combat urban terrorism
- it failed to allow decisive leadership, by dividing decision making between a military and a civilian administrators (who rarely communicated with each other
- civilian appointments were too short to get an understanding of the problems and used to reward Republican supporters
- military commanders were allowed to conduct indiscriminant "sweeps" that flooded the prisons with innocent largely bystanders and without the trained personale to interrogate them
- the Bush Administration was totally unprepared to restore the basic necessities - electricity, water, sewage, banking, access to food in the cities
Based on so many shortcomings of judgment, why should anybody have confidence in Bush's self-serving assessment that his Administration succeeded in the "establishment of a free Iraq at the heart of the Middle East will be a watershed event ....."
The Oval Office
10:16 P.M. EST
THE PRESIDENT: My fellow citizens, at this hour, American and coalition forces are in the early stages of military operations to disarm Iraq, to free its people and to defend the world from grave danger.
Well "W" got two out of three right. We disarmed Iraq from their anitiquated arms and the people were freed from the tranquility between the Sunnis and the Shia but defending the world from a grave danger,,,not so much.
Well "W" got two out of three right. We disarmed Iraq from their anitiquated arms and the people were freed from the tranquility between the Sunnis and the Shia but defending the world from a grave danger,,,not so much.
Document 25: Department of State, Office of the Assistant Secretary for Near Eastern and South Asian Affairs Action Memorandum from Jonathan T. Howe to Lawrence S. Eagleburger. "Iraqi Use of Chemical Weapons" [Includes Cables Entitled "Deterring Iraqi Use of Chemical Weapons" and "Background of Iraqi Use of Chemical Weapons"], November 21, 1983.
State Department officials recommend discussing the use of chemical weapons with Iraqi officials soon, in order to deter further use and "to avoid unpleasantly surprising Iraq through public positions we may have to take on this issue." A background cable says that Iraq used lethal chemical weapons in October 1982 and, reportedly, against Iranian forces July and August 1983 "and more recently against Kurdish insurgents."
Source: Declassified under the Freedom of Information Act
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/#docs
Apparently Saddam became a "monster" only after he was no longer required to fight the Reagan Administration's "proxy" war against Iran during the 1980's.Document 52: Department of State Cable from George P. Shultz to the United States Embassy in Lebanon [et al.]. "Department Press Briefing, March 30, 1984," March 31, 1984.
The State Department announces it has imposed foreign policy controls on Iran and Iraq for exports of chemical weapons precursors. It responds to questions from the press about U.S. policy regarding the Iran-Iraq war, and a department spokesperson says Iraq's chemical weapons use will not change U.S. interest in pursuing closer U.S.-Iraq relations.
Source: Declassified under the Freedom of Information Act
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/#docs
Well "W" got two out of three right. We disarmed Iraq from their anitiquated arms and the people were freed from the tranquility between the Sunnis and the Shia but defending the world from a grave danger,,,not so much.
Yep, Iraq was a veritable paradise.
{He was a monster even by the standards of Saddam Hussein's Iraq, a sadist with a taste for cruelty so extreme that even his father was forced to acknowledge that his first-born son would not be a worthy heir.
And yet for all that Uday Saddam Hussein symbolised the brutality of the Iraqi regime, his powers were severely circumscribed. Although he retained the privileges of the much-indulged son of a dictator, he was shunted from the real centres of power in the military and security services by his quieter, younger brother Qusay.}
Uday: career of rape, torture and murder | World news | The Guardian
{The punishments include fingers being chopped or shot off, tips of tongues being cut off, wrists being broken by sharp blows from a wooden rod, lashes by whip or cane, a bound man being tossed off a building, a beheading involving a sword and a knife and a man being humiliated by riding a donkey backwards.
Several scenes show charges being read out, ranging from disobeying an order to desertion, before punishments are inflicted.
"When you have people filming in front of crowds cheering and clapping -- you have people cutting off people's tongues and heads and chopping off their fingers and hands throwing them off three-story buildings -- you learn something about a group of people and how they lived their lives and treated their people and we are so fortunate that they are gone and those 23 million people are liberated," Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld told reporters during a Pentagon briefing Thursday.}
FOXNews.com - Videotape Shows Saddam's Men Torturing Iraqis - U.S. & World
Or maybe you're just a fucking liar.
Hey, your shameful party is way too important to let things like facts and reality creep in.
You serve your party and say whatever needs to be said to further the aims of the party.
Oh cry me a river!
Secondly, what shameful party are you referring to? Sorry but unlike you, I don't need a party/ideology dictating my thought process,
Apparently Saddam became a "monster" only after he was no longer required to fight the Reagan Administration's "proxy" war against Iran during the 1980's.
ROFL
If not for dishonesty, leftists would be utterly mute.
Iran
Document 25: Department of State, Office of the Assistant Secretary for Near Eastern and South Asian Affairs Action Memorandum from Jonathan T. Howe to Lawrence S. Eagleburger. "Iraqi Use of Chemical Weapons" [Includes Cables Entitled "Deterring Iraqi Use of Chemical Weapons" and "Background of Iraqi Use of Chemical Weapons"], November 21, 1983.
State Department officials recommend discussing the use of chemical weapons with Iraqi officials soon, in order to deter further use and "to avoid unpleasantly surprising Iraq through public positions we may have to take on this issue." A background cable says that Iraq used lethal chemical weapons in October 1982 and, reportedly, against Iranian forces July and August 1983 "and more recently against Kurdish insurgents."
Source: Declassified under the Freedom of Information Act
Shaking Hands with Saddam HusseinApparently Saddam became a "monster" only after he was no longer required to fight the Reagan Administration's "proxy" war against Iran during the 1980's.Document 52: Department of State Cable from George P. Shultz to the United States Embassy in Lebanon [et al.]. "Department Press Briefing, March 30, 1984," March 31, 1984.
The State Department announces it has imposed foreign policy controls on Iran and Iraq for exports of chemical weapons precursors. It responds to questions from the press about U.S. policy regarding the Iran-Iraq war, and a department spokesperson says Iraq's chemical weapons use will not change U.S. interest in pursuing closer U.S.-Iraq relations.
Source: Declassified under the Freedom of Information Act
Shaking Hands with Saddam Hussein
According to Reagan Administration's own declassified documents, the US was well aware that not only was Saddam using WMD against Iran, but also against Kurd civilians inside of Iraq. (Document 25, November 21, 1983.)
At the time, the Reagan Administration (in which GWH Bush served as Vice President) deliberately chose to ignore such major human rights violations and its official response was "..... Iraq's chemical weapons use will not change U.S. interest in pursuing closer U.S.-Iraq relations. (Doctment 52 - March 30, 1984)
Now that the tables have been turned, it should be interesting to see if "Uncensored2008" is just as passionate about allowing "things like facts and reality creep in" when they portray the Republicans as the true "shameful party."
funny how Reagan got Saddam to start a "proxy war" months before he took office, and even months before he even won the electionDocument 25: Department of State, Office of the Assistant Secretary for Near Eastern and South Asian Affairs Action Memorandum from Jonathan T. Howe to Lawrence S. Eagleburger. "Iraqi Use of Chemical Weapons" [Includes Cables Entitled "Deterring Iraqi Use of Chemical Weapons" and "Background of Iraqi Use of Chemical Weapons"], November 21, 1983.
State Department officials recommend discussing the use of chemical weapons with Iraqi officials soon, in order to deter further use and "to avoid unpleasantly surprising Iraq through public positions we may have to take on this issue." A background cable says that Iraq used lethal chemical weapons in October 1982 and, reportedly, against Iranian forces July and August 1983 "and more recently against Kurdish insurgents."
Source: Declassified under the Freedom of Information Act
Shaking Hands with Saddam HusseinApparently Saddam became a "monster" only after he was no longer required to fight the Reagan Administration's "proxy" war against Iran during the 1980's.Document 52: Department of State Cable from George P. Shultz to the United States Embassy in Lebanon [et al.]. "Department Press Briefing, March 30, 1984," March 31, 1984.
The State Department announces it has imposed foreign policy controls on Iran and Iraq for exports of chemical weapons precursors. It responds to questions from the press about U.S. policy regarding the Iran-Iraq war, and a department spokesperson says Iraq's chemical weapons use will not change U.S. interest in pursuing closer U.S.-Iraq relations.
Source: Declassified under the Freedom of Information Act
Shaking Hands with Saddam Hussein
According to Reagan Administration's own declassified documents, the US was well aware that not only was Saddam using WMD against Iran, but also against Kurd civilians inside of Iraq. (Document 25, November 21, 1983.)
At the time, the Reagan Administration (in which GWH Bush served as Vice President) deliberately chose to ignore such major human rights violations and its official response was "..... Iraq's chemical weapons use will not change U.S. interest in pursuing closer U.S.-Iraq relations. (Doctment 52 - March 30, 1984)
Now that the tables have been turned, it should be interesting to see if "Uncensored2008" is just as passionate about allowing "things like facts and reality creep in" when they portray the Republicans as the true "shameful party."
the Cited document seems to say Kurdish insurgents, not Kurd Civilians, such as the entire village.
Apparently Saddam became a "monster" only after he was no longer required to fight the Reagan Administration's "proxy" war against Iran during the 1980's.
ROFL
If not for dishonesty, leftists would be utterly mute.
Iran
jg wants to ignore that fact we helped both sides in that war, to maintain the status quo, and that saddam chose to start that one totally of his own design
I've taken the time to read through the declassified documents - and they say no such thing. I defy "DiveCon" to produce documented evidence that shows that the Reagan Administration was interested in maintaining the status quo or was interested in helping Iran!Document 61: United States District Court (Florida: Southern District) Affidavit. "United States of America, Plaintiff, v. Carlos Cardoen [et al.]" [Charge that Teledyne Wah Chang Albany Illegally Provided a Proscribed Substance, Zirconium, to Cardoen Industries and to Iraq], January 31, 1995.
Former Reagan administration National Security Council staff member Howard Teicher says that after Ronald Reagan signed a national security decision directive calling for the U.S. to do whatever was necessary to prevent Iraq's defeat in the Iran-Iraq war, Director of Central Intelligence William Casey personally led efforts to ensure that Iraq had sufficient weapons, including cluster bombs, and that the U.S. provided Iraq with financial credits, intelligence, and strategic military advice. The CIA also provided Iraq, through third parties that included Israel and Egypt, with military hardware compatible with its Soviet-origin weaponry .....
Source: Court case
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/#docs
diposhit, did you ever hear of Iran-Contra?I've taken the time to read through the declassified documents - and they say no such thing. I defy "DiveCon" to produce documented evidence that shows that the Reagan Administration was interested in maintaining the status quo or was interested in helping Iran!jg wants to ignore that fact we helped both sides in that war, to maintain the status quo, and that saddam chose to start that one totally of his own design
Iraq was an illegal invasion of a sovereign nation based on fear,
I'm not interested in your Obama verses.
The FACT is that Bush stated his intent, and it appears to be going just like he said. Look like the middle east IS exploding in a massive move to democratically elected and free nations.
Put down your holy book, and THINK.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but did we ever find any WMD's in Iraq?
jg wants to ignore that fact we helped both sides in that war, to maintain the status quo, and that saddam chose to start that one totally of his own design
I've taken the time to read through the declassified documents - and they say no such thing. I defy "DiveCon" to produce documented evidence that shows that the Reagan Administration was interested in maintaining the status quo or was interested in helping Iran!
