Humiliation, fasting, and prayer

[Meriweather]

And I don't see how an entity that's supposed to be all-powerful.............. needs help.

Needs help? What do you mean?

 

[james bond]

This part has always struck me as completely bizzaro:

We are fasting and praying for:

1) Gods will [sic] to be done

--- Let's assume this is supposed to mean "God's will" (the will of a monotheism "God") and not "the will of an indeterminate number of gods" --- why on earth or elsewhere would it ever be necessary to "pray" for God to do its own will? If "God" exists as described ........... then isn't it going to do whatever it wants by definition? How on earth could "God" be prevented from doing its own will, to the extent that it needed help from humanity to convince itself to do and be what it already does and is in the first place?

I'm only responding because you put the smilie there . Figured it was a serious question. The reason we pray to God is because in a free election we have free will. That means humans can mess it up like they messed up paradise. They could vote for the wrong candidate. They could vote illegally. They could not vote. As for humiliation, you've seen the political commercials, ads and what the ex-Hollywood celebs have done. It doesn't make sense to take your clothes off to state a public service announcement if it doesn't make you want to vote, but puke.

"Vote like your life depended on it." C. Handler

Your prayers will do as much for the nation tomorrow as they do to stop the bullets that rip through our regularly murdered schoolchildren.

Prayers can change the will of a nation. Wasn't Hillary undefeatable? Had all the money in the campaign chest. Trump had to spend his own money.

 

[james bond]

Humbling yourself before God, fasting, and prayer... all good ways to reconnect with the force that binds us all but is not part of.

All complete wastes of time which do not accomplish anything.

 

[james bond]

IF we stipulate that "God" is all-powerful......

"All-powerful" may not be the best adjective. "Most-powerful" or "Unlimited power" should also be considered. Most powerful may be more accurate, because it allows others to have power, while still retaining most. Do you consider "All-powerful" to mean no one else has any power at all?

No. I consider it to mean the entity has the capability to do whatever it wants without restrictions.

Therefore, if such an entity wants something, it's done. The only way it would not be done would be if there were some restriction on that entity's power. But if we're stipulating that that restriction does not exist, then there's nothing preventing that "God's will" from getting done. And that means whether we pray for it, pray against it, or don't pray at all. Kind of like the electoral college.

Therefore, what, the question was, could possibly be the point of praying that "God's will be done"? That's already a foregone conclusion; it is by definition impossible for the will of "God", as described, to not be done.

You got it wrong, Pogo. God's will be done on Earth as it is in heaven is through his followers. Non-believers just want him to do miracles and then still don't believe him and that God's will be done.

 

[BreezeWood]

God's will be done on Earth as it is in heaven is through their followers.

on Earth as it is in heaven ... through their followers

those above are not the spirits of the Almighty ... the persecutors.

its been over 2000 years of 4th century christianity and desert religion domination, their phony 10,000 page books are but the harbingers through those followers of uninterrupted persecution and victimization of the true spirits, the innocent victims as that of the 1st century there is yet to be Justus rendered for them by those of wanton and continuous crimes.

 

[Pogo]

IF we stipulate that "God" is all-powerful......

"All-powerful" may not be the best adjective. "Most-powerful" or "Unlimited power" should also be considered. Most powerful may be more accurate, because it allows others to have power, while still retaining most. Do you consider "All-powerful" to mean no one else has any power at all?

No. I consider it to mean the entity has the capability to do whatever it wants without restrictions.

Therefore, if such an entity wants something, it's done. The only way it would not be done would be if there were some restriction on that entity's power. But if we're stipulating that that restriction does not exist, then there's nothing preventing that "God's will" from getting done. And that means whether we pray for it, pray against it, or don't pray at all. Kind of like the electoral college.

Therefore, what, the question was, could possibly be the point of praying that "God's will be done"? That's already a foregone conclusion; it is by definition impossible for the will of "God", as described, to not be done.

You got it wrong, Pogo. God's will be done on Earth as it is in heaven is through his followers. Non-believers just want him to do miracles and then still don't believe him and that God's will be done.

More yammeryammer doubletalk that fails to address the question.

 

[Pogo]

And I don't see how an entity that's supposed to be all-powerful.............. needs help.

Needs help? What do you mean?

It means exactly what it says. It would all be clear if you hadn't cut the context out.

I'm not typing it all over again. Already did that. What you're in effect telling me is that there is no answer and you wish the question would go away. But there it is, isn't it.

 

[Meriweather]

It means exactly what it says. It would all be clear if you hadn't cut the context out.

I'm not typing it all over again. Already did that. What you're in effect telling me is that there is no answer and you wish the question would go away. But there it is, isn't it.

Actually, what I was telling you is that I had gone back and re-read all your posts. I don't wish the question would go away. Call me stupid, but it is not clear to me where you see God needing our help. A specific example where God needs our help might help me better understand what you mean. When, for example, has God needed your help? Had you not been there, would He have been out of luck?

 

[hobelim]

God's will be done on Earth as it is in heaven is through his followers. Non-believers just want him to do miracles and then still don't believe him and that God's will be done.

If Gods will was being done on earth as it is in heaven all of you zombies out there would be condemning talking serpents of all species as low-life's ( see genesis 3:14) instead of buying into the deception that they are enlightened holy men..

 

[james bond]

IF we stipulate that "God" is all-powerful......

"All-powerful" may not be the best adjective. "Most-powerful" or "Unlimited power" should also be considered. Most powerful may be more accurate, because it allows others to have power, while still retaining most. Do you consider "All-powerful" to mean no one else has any power at all?

No. I consider it to mean the entity has the capability to do whatever it wants without restrictions.

Therefore, if such an entity wants something, it's done. The only way it would not be done would be if there were some restriction on that entity's power. But if we're stipulating that that restriction does not exist, then there's nothing preventing that "God's will" from getting done. And that means whether we pray for it, pray against it, or don't pray at all. Kind of like the electoral college.

Therefore, what, the question was, could possibly be the point of praying that "God's will be done"? That's already a foregone conclusion; it is by definition impossible for the will of "God", as described, to not be done.

You got it wrong, Pogo. God's will be done on Earth as it is in heaven is through his followers. Non-believers just want him to do miracles and then still don't believe him and that God's will be done.

More yammeryammer doubletalk that fails to address the question.

It's not BS. God's followers are doing his work here on Earth. A good tree bears good fruit. That's evidence that the triune God exists and his will is being done here on Earth as it is in heaven with the angels.

What happened in heaven first though? The top angel Lucifer and his followers rebelled against God and were sent hellbound. The same is happening on Earth as the wicked and non-believers were sent hellbound through Noah's Flood. Now, we are waiting for the final battle at Armageddon. How is that BS when we all have heard of this?

God is all-powerful, but you want things done by him the way you stipulate. God doesn't work that way. Instead, Jesus will show how you were wrong when the time comes and you'll finally get it.

 

[Pogo]

It means exactly what it says. It would all be clear if you hadn't cut the context out.

I'm not typing it all over again. Already did that. What you're in effect telling me is that there is no answer and you wish the question would go away. But there it is, isn't it.

Actually, what I was telling you is that I had gone back and re-read all your posts. I don't wish the question would go away. Call me stupid, but it is not clear to me where you see God needing our help. A specific example where God needs our help might help me better understand what you mean.

Again, just because you pretend the question isn't there doesn't mean it isn't. Once AGAIN --- the poster called for "praying that God's will be done" which by definition is inevitable. Which then begs the question, why "pray for" the inevitable. It would be like praying that the sun comes up tomorrow or that gravity still exists at four o'clock today. It's going to happen whether you pray for it, pray against it, or don't pray at all. It's a GIVEN.

When, for example, has God needed your help? Had you not been there, would He have been out of luck?

EXACTLY. You just said the same thing I did.

I note that the poster who presented the concept never came back to answer it. And in that he got it right; there is no answer. Which means the premise collapses.

 

[Pogo]

IF we stipulate that "God" is all-powerful......

"All-powerful" may not be the best adjective. "Most-powerful" or "Unlimited power" should also be considered. Most powerful may be more accurate, because it allows others to have power, while still retaining most. Do you consider "All-powerful" to mean no one else has any power at all?

No. I consider it to mean the entity has the capability to do whatever it wants without restrictions.

Therefore, if such an entity wants something, it's done. The only way it would not be done would be if there were some restriction on that entity's power. But if we're stipulating that that restriction does not exist, then there's nothing preventing that "God's will" from getting done. And that means whether we pray for it, pray against it, or don't pray at all. Kind of like the electoral college.

Therefore, what, the question was, could possibly be the point of praying that "God's will be done"? That's already a foregone conclusion; it is by definition impossible for the will of "God", as described, to not be done.

You got it wrong, Pogo. God's will be done on Earth as it is in heaven is through his followers. Non-believers just want him to do miracles and then still don't believe him and that God's will be done.

More yammeryammer doubletalk that fails to address the question.

It's not BS. God's followers are doing his work here on Earth. A good tree bears good fruit. That's evidence that the triune God exists and his will is being done here on Earth as it is in heaven with the angels.

What happened in heaven first though? The top angel Lucifer and his followers rebelled against God and were sent hellbound. The same is happening on Earth as the wicked and non-believers were sent hellbound through Noah's Flood. Now, we are waiting for the final battle at Armageddon. How is that BS when we all have heard of this?

God is all-powerful, but you want things done by him the way you stipulate. God doesn't work that way. Instead, Jesus will show how you were wrong when the time comes and you'll finally get it.

You're continuing to hide behind a word salad because you can't address the question.

 

[BreezeWood]

That's evidence that the triune God exists and his will is being done here on Earth as it is in heaven with the angels.

only by reading your book would that be plausible, not being universally known is proof it is a manufactured belief.

the same as your signature, without having made that universally known to all living beings is proof again it was manufactured for anterior reasons.

Now, we are waiting for the final battle at Armageddon. How is that BS when we all have heard of this?

victory according to the spoken Religion of Antiquity would not be a battle but a by its very nature a peaceful and everlasting transition.

 

[Meriweather]

Again, just because you pretend the question isn't there doesn't mean it isn't. Once AGAIN --- the poster called for "praying that God's will be done" which by definition is inevitable. Which then begs the question, why "pray for" the inevitable. It would be like praying that the sun comes up tomorrow or that gravity still exists at four o'clock today. It's going to happen whether you pray for it, pray against it, or don't pray at all. It's a GIVEN.

The prayer says, "God's will be done on earth as it is in heaven..." which by definition tells us that God's will is not done on earth the way it is done in heaven. Humans have been given free choice meaning we can choose God's ways--or not. Up to us.

 

[Taz]

Again, just because you pretend the question isn't there doesn't mean it isn't. Once AGAIN --- the poster called for "praying that God's will be done" which by definition is inevitable. Which then begs the question, why "pray for" the inevitable. It would be like praying that the sun comes up tomorrow or that gravity still exists at four o'clock today. It's going to happen whether you pray for it, pray against it, or don't pray at all. It's a GIVEN.

The prayer says, "God's will be done on earth as it is in heaven..." which by definition tells us that God's will is not done on earth the way it is done in heaven. Humans have been given free choice meaning we can choose God's ways--or not. Up to us.

But you'll get punished if you don't choose god's way. So no free choice, really.

 

[Meriweather]

But you'll get punished

Or forgiven

 

[Taz]

But you'll get punished

Or forgiven

But you could get punished for not choosing a certain way, so no real free will.

 

[ding]

Again, just because you pretend the question isn't there doesn't mean it isn't. Once AGAIN --- the poster called for "praying that God's will be done" which by definition is inevitable. Which then begs the question, why "pray for" the inevitable. It would be like praying that the sun comes up tomorrow or that gravity still exists at four o'clock today. It's going to happen whether you pray for it, pray against it, or don't pray at all. It's a GIVEN.

The prayer says, "God's will be done on earth as it is in heaven..." which by definition tells us that God's will is not done on earth the way it is done in heaven. Humans have been given free choice meaning we can choose God's ways--or not. Up to us.

But you'll get punished if you don't choose god's way. So no free choice, really.

Again with the false choice logic.

 

[ding]

But you'll get punished

Or forgiven

But you could get punished for not choosing a certain way, so no real free will.

Tell me about this punishment? What is it? How do you know it will happen?

 

[Taz]

Again, just because you pretend the question isn't there doesn't mean it isn't. Once AGAIN --- the poster called for "praying that God's will be done" which by definition is inevitable. Which then begs the question, why "pray for" the inevitable. It would be like praying that the sun comes up tomorrow or that gravity still exists at four o'clock today. It's going to happen whether you pray for it, pray against it, or don't pray at all. It's a GIVEN.

The prayer says, "God's will be done on earth as it is in heaven..." which by definition tells us that God's will is not done on earth the way it is done in heaven. Humans have been given free choice meaning we can choose God's ways--or not. Up to us.

But you'll get punished if you don't choose god's way. So no free choice, really.

Again with the false choice logic.

It's not a free choice if there's a reward for picking a certain way.