Huge Solar Fail

[Old Rocks]

It's impossible to power a home 100% on solar alone. My solar array provides about 40% of the energy I need, on a good day. My water wheel on the other hand is very useful providing 60% 24/7 until winter freezes up the creek, then we have to rely solely on grid power which is way cheaper than the generator we have in case there is a grid failure.

And, as usual, Walleyes is lying through his teeth. Completely possible, either with a grid tied system, or a stand alone system.

Solar-powering a House - HowStuffWorks

What would you have to do to power your house with solar energy? Although it's not as simple as just slapping some modules on your roof, it's not extremely difficult to do, either.

How many solar panels do I need on my house to become energy independent MIT School of Engineering

Mailoa would rephrase the question as follows to get at some of the necessary details: “Given my average consumption of X kWh of electricity per year, and the annual average of Y kWh/m2/day of solar insolation, how many solar panels of efficiency Z% will I need to install for my home to become energy independent?”

The first of those variables is the amount of energy your house uses, which depends on things we’re all pretty aware of—whether you turn the lights off when you leave a room, how much you run your air conditioning unit when it gets hot, etc. The less electricity you use, the fewer solar panels you’ll need.

Now Walleyes says you cannot completely power your home with solar. MIT says you can. Oh, who to believe.

 

[westwall]

It's impossible to power a home 100% on solar alone. My solar array provides about 40% of the energy I need, on a good day. My water wheel on the other hand is very useful providing 60% 24/7 until winter freezes up the creek, then we have to rely solely on grid power which is way cheaper than the generator we have in case there is a grid failure.

And, as usual, Walleyes is lying through his teeth. Completely possible, either with a grid tied system, or a stand alone system.

Solar-powering a House - HowStuffWorks

What would you have to do to power your house with solar energy? Although it's not as simple as just slapping some modules on your roof, it's not extremely difficult to do, either.

How many solar panels do I need on my house to become energy independent MIT School of Engineering

Mailoa would rephrase the question as follows to get at some of the necessary details: “Given my average consumption of X kWh of electricity per year, and the annual average of Y kWh/m2/day of solar insolation, how many solar panels of efficiency Z% will I need to install for my home to become energy independent?”

The first of those variables is the amount of energy your house uses, which depends on things we’re all pretty aware of—whether you turn the lights off when you leave a room, how much you run your air conditioning unit when it gets hot, etc. The less electricity you use, the fewer solar panels you’ll need.

Now Walleyes says you cannot completely power your home with solar. MIT says you can. Oh, who to believe.

Maybe I should have put it this way....if you only have to power a few lights, and a refrigerator, and maybe a computer for a short period of time, and the sun is up 24/7 and there are never storms to block the sun, then yes. You can power your house with solar. However, those of us who don't live in small houses, and have freezers, and other large power users, and don't live in the desert, and don't live where there are storms....we can't seem to make solar work.

How's your solar set up going? Have you bought your e pickup truck yet? Have you been able to cash any dividend checks from Ivanpah? Why is it that they are so far down on power generation? Why can't they make a 1.6 BILLION dollar solar system work? Hmmmm? MIT says it's easy. So what's the story?

 

[Old Rocks]

Oh my, who to believe, the engineers at MIT, or Walleyes. LOL

 

[elektra]

Oh my, who to believe, the engineers at MIT, or Walleyes. LOL

Oh my God, its Old Crock, who does not know a thing about anything, last I posted I called you out on the Steel Industry Old Crock claims to have had a career in, Old Crock you know nothing about steel let alone MIT, let alone Solar.

Old Crock hides from most posts that are fact, if Old Crock replies its with an insult.

I do not need to follow one link or read one of Old Crock's posts to know, that.....

Old Crock is simply a, "CROCK", and yes, I know, "link", well, here you go, the link Old Crock always demands.

Urban Dictionary crock of shit

crock of shit
More politely known as "a pile of poo", the term "a crock of shit" derives from an ancient Roman custom that coincidentally took place in Roman times. It referred literally to a pot into which people would excrete if they were particularly bored by whichever freelance philosoper happened to be talking rubbish at the time. The Roman empire employed crock-monitors who were each assigned to a philosopher, and it was their job to monitor the pot (or crock). Should the crock become full, it would be presented to the philospher, who was obliged, by law, to announce that it bore a remarkable resembence to himself, thus proclaiming he was full of crap and was, in fact, talking a crock of shit.

 

[daveman]

One project not doing so good, but look at these.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/24/b...-win-on-price-vs-conventional-fuels.html?_r=0

In Texas, Austin Energy signed a deal this spring for 20 years of output from a solar farm at less than 5 cents a kilowatt-hour. In September, the Grand River Dam Authority in Oklahoma announced its approval of a new agreement to buy power from a new wind farm expected to be completed next year. Grand River estimated the deal would save its customers roughly $50 million from the project.

And, also in Oklahoma, American Electric Power ended up tripling the amount of wind power it had originally sought after seeing how low the bids came in last year.

“Wind was on sale — it was a Blue Light Special,” said Jay Godfrey, managing director of renewable energy for the company. He noted that Oklahoma, unlike many states, did not require utilities to buy power from renewable sources.

“We were doing it because it made sense for our ratepayers,” he said.

According to a study by the investment banking firm Lazard, the cost of utility-scale solar energy is as low as 5.6 cents a kilowatt-hour, and wind is as low as 1.4 cents. In comparison, natural gas comes at 6.1 cents a kilowatt-hour on the low end and coal at 6.6 cents. Without subsidies, the firm’s analysis shows, solar costs about 7.2 cents a kilowatt-hour at the low end, with wind at 3.7 cents.

“It is really quite notable, when compared to where we were just five years ago, to see the decline in the cost of these technologies,” said Jonathan Mir, a managing director at Lazard, which has been comparing the economics of power generation technologies since 2008.

Projections and wishful thinking. These projects won't be successful until they deliver on their promises.

And so far, very, very few have.

 

[westwall]

Oh my, who to believe, the engineers at MIT, or Walleyes. LOL

I believe it was MIT engineers who built the failed 1.6 billion dollar Ivanpah solar plant, so clearly they aren't to be listened too.

 

[elektra]

Anybody ever put a dollar amount on the Free Research given to Solar from all our government Universities, such as MIT.

All that money diverted from stuff like Childhood Cancer research, so that a the Socialists can try a Utopian dream.

It really is a tragedy, the money wasted, the money unaccounted for, while hunger and poverty get worst because of all these failed ideas.

 

[Politico]

No way you are putting up an array on a house that will power it in full for ten grand. I follow the prices here, waiting for the ever promised " its going to be cheaper ...." blah blah blah.......try 20 grand ya might be close.

It could be done if you live like a Hobbit. That is not the point. Making a logistical comparison between a single home and a power plant is idiotic.

 

[Saigon]

Well, this project seems to work....

Ivanpah
BrightSource’s LPT solar thermal system is operating at the Ivanpah Solar Electric Generating System (ISEGS) in California’s Mojave Desert. Ivanpah, which began commercial operation in 2013, is delivering power to PG&E and Southern California Edison. The project is currently the largest solar thermal power plant in the world. Ivanpah was constructed by Bechtel and is operated by NRG Energy, one of the project's equity investors.

A 377 megawatt net solar complex using mirrors to focus the power of the sun on solar receivers atop power towers.

• The electricity generated by all three plants is enough to serve more than 140,000 homes in California during the peak hours of the day.
• The complex will reduce carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions by more than 400,000 tons per year.
• Located in Ivanpah, approximately 50 miles northwest of Needles, California (about five miles from the California-Nevada border) on federal land managed by the Bureau of Land Management.
• The facility is comprised of three separate plants built in phases between 2010 and 2013, and uses BrightSource Energy’s LPT solar thermal technology.

Solar Project in California Desert Ivanpah World s Largest Solar Plant

It's also worth keeping in mind that up to 90% of homes in some Mediterranean countries have solar panels. I think the residents of those homes would be surprised to hear that it doesn't work....

 

[Old Rocks]

Our 'Conservatives' are some of the most willfully ignorant people in the world. They beleive that if they cannot see it from their front porch, it does not exist.

Solar is working all over the world, and is wonderfully scalable from installations measured in wattage, to those measure in multiple megawattage. A, like the one in Texas that will be delivering electricity for less than a nickel a kilowatt, they, and wind, are going to shut down the coal fired plants on simple economics.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/24/b...-win-on-price-vs-conventional-fuels.html?_r=0

In Texas, Austin Energy signed a deal this spring for 20 years of output from a solar farm at less than 5 cents a kilowatt-hour. In September, the Grand River Dam Authority in Oklahoma announced its approval of a new agreement to buy power from a new wind farm expected to be completed next year. Grand River estimated the deal would save its customers roughly $50 million from the project.

 

[Old Rocks]

Oh my, who to believe, the engineers at MIT, or Walleyes. LOL

Oh my God, its Old Crock, who does not know a thing about anything, last I posted I called you out on the Steel Industry Old Crock claims to have had a career in, Old Crock you know nothing about steel let alone MIT, let alone Solar.

Old Crock hides from most posts that are fact, if Old Crock replies its with an insult.

I do not need to follow one link or read one of Old Crock's posts to know, that.....

Old Crock is simply a, "CROCK", and yes, I know, "link", well, here you go, the link Old Crock always demands.

Urban Dictionary crock of shit

crock of shit
More politely known as "a pile of poo", the term "a crock of shit" derives from an ancient Roman custom that coincidentally took place in Roman times. It referred literally to a pot into which people would excrete if they were particularly bored by whichever freelance philosoper happened to be talking rubbish at the time. The Roman empire employed crock-monitors who were each assigned to a philosopher, and it was their job to monitor the pot (or crock). Should the crock become full, it would be presented to the philospher, who was obliged, by law, to announce that it bore a remarkable resembence to himself, thus proclaiming he was full of crap and was, in fact, talking a crock of shit.

My, my. LOL

 

[mamooth]

World's biggest solar farm, 550 MW, goes online in California. It's only world's biggest until next year, when a 579 MW facility also comes online.

Watch the world s largest solar power plant being built Huge farm generates energy for 160 000 homes using nine MILLION panels Daily Mail Online
---
Spanning a huge 9.5 square miles (25 square km) - a third of the size of Manhattan - the Topaz Solar Farm consists of nine million solar panels and has a capacity of 550 megawatts.
---

 

[westwall]

Well, this project seems to work....

Ivanpah
BrightSource’s LPT solar thermal system is operating at the Ivanpah Solar Electric Generating System (ISEGS) in California’s Mojave Desert. Ivanpah, which began commercial operation in 2013, is delivering power to PG&E and Southern California Edison. The project is currently the largest solar thermal power plant in the world. Ivanpah was constructed by Bechtel and is operated by NRG Energy, one of the project's equity investors.

A 377 megawatt net solar complex using mirrors to focus the power of the sun on solar receivers atop power towers.

• The electricity generated by all three plants is enough to serve more than 140,000 homes in California during the peak hours of the day.
• The complex will reduce carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions by more than 400,000 tons per year.
• Located in Ivanpah, approximately 50 miles northwest of Needles, California (about five miles from the California-Nevada border) on federal land managed by the Bureau of Land Management.
• The facility is comprised of three separate plants built in phases between 2010 and 2013, and uses BrightSource Energy’s LPT solar thermal technology.

Solar Project in California Desert Ivanpah World s Largest Solar Plant

It's also worth keeping in mind that up to 90% of homes in some Mediterranean countries have solar panels. I think the residents of those homes would be surprised to hear that it doesn't work....

You idiot! That's the 1.6 BILLION dollar project that has failed that we are talking about nimrod!

Here are some links to get you caught up to the real world. I thought you claimed to be a "journalist"?..

VIDEO: Ivanpah solar power plant not generating as much power as expected
VIDEO Ivanpah solar power plant not generating as much power as expected - Electric Light Power

The Ivanpah concentrated solar power plant in the California Mojave desert near Primm Nevada is not producing nearly as much electricity as predicted. Natural gas, not the heat of the sun, is being used more than originally projected to power the turbines. CSP works by reflecting the heat of the sun from heliostat mirrors to a central tower to run the turbines. Ivanpah has produced a mere 25% of expected electricity since December 2013 when it began production, a dismal result indeed. - See more at: Ivanpah solar power plant generating way less power than expected Politics in the Zeros

Ivanpah solar power plant generating way less power than expected Politics in the Zeros


"Factors such as clouds, jet contrails and weather have had a greater impact on the plant than the owners anticipated," the agency said in a statement.
It could take until 2018 for the plant backed by $1.6 billion in federal loan guarantees to hit its annual peak target, said NRG Energy Inc., which operates the plant and co-owns it with Google Inc. and BrightSource Energy.
"During startup we have experienced ... equipment challenges, typical with any new technology, combined with irregular weather patterns," NRG spokesman Jeff Holland said in a statement. "We are confident that Ivanpah's long-term generation projections will meet expectations."
The technology used at Ivanpah is different than the familiar photovoltaic panels commonly used for rooftop solar installations. The plant's solar-thermal system — sometimes called concentrated-solar thermal — relies on nearly 350,000 computer-controlled mirrors at the site, each the size of a garage door."

Ivanpah Solar Plant Lags In Early Production



There you go genius. Get caught up. Your fundamental lack of knowledge on something so easily researched demolishes whatever credibility you thought you had. Jesus wept man...how can you be so grossly incompetent!

 

[westwall]

World's biggest solar farm, 550 MW, goes online in California. It's only world's biggest until next year, when a 579 MW facility also comes online.

Watch the world s largest solar power plant being built Huge farm generates energy for 160 000 homes using nine MILLION panels Daily Mail Online
---
Spanning a huge 9.5 square miles (25 square km) - a third of the size of Manhattan - the Topaz Solar Farm consists of nine million solar panels and has a capacity of 550 megawatts.
---

And how much do you want to bet that it performs just as shitty as Ivanpah does?

 

[mamooth]

Back in reality, a place far from Denierstan, the clean energy loan program has made profits for the government.

After Solyndra Loss U.S. Energy Loan Program Turning A Profit NPR
---
Overall, the agency has loaned $34.2 billion to a variety of businesses, under a program designed to speed up development of clean-energy technology. Companies have defaulted on $780 million of that — a loss rate of 2.28 percent. The agency also has collected $810 million in interest payments, putting the program $30 million in the black.
---

 

[westwall]

Back in reality, a place far from Denierstan, the clean energy loan program has made profits for the government.

After Solyndra Loss U.S. Energy Loan Program Turning A Profit NPR
---
Overall, the agency has loaned $34.2 billion to a variety of businesses, under a program designed to speed up development of clean-energy technology. Companies have defaulted on $780 million of that — a loss rate of 2.28 percent. The agency also has collected $810 million in interest payments, putting the program $30 million in the black.
---

Sure they have. They have had to resort to robbing Peter to pay Paul, just like GM had to borrow money from the government to pay off the government loans. Really, mammy. If you are going to make your arguments this poorly you should just quit. You're losing it.

 

[mamooth]

Yet I'm not the one inventing a new conspiracy theory to cover for his old conspiracy theory getting debunked.

Your anti-renewable vendetta keeps looking dumber. Do you plan to cling to it forever, or will you be staging a stealthy retreat from it soon? I'd suggest the latter. Don't worry, I won't hang it over your head.

 

[Manonthestreet]

Germany building coal plants as quick as they can cause ....solar and wind fail.....ooooopppps

 

[westwall]

Yet I'm not the one inventing a new conspiracy theory to cover for his old conspiracy theory getting debunked.

Your anti-renewable vendetta keeps looking dumber. Do you plan to cling to it forever, or will you be staging a stealthy retreat from it soon? I'd suggest the latter. Don't worry, I won't hang it over your head.

I don't have an "anti-renewable" agenda. I do have a anti-inefficient, anti-corruption agenda though. Solar power exists purely because of tax payer dollars. If they were gone, so would the solar industry be gone. The same go's for wind and all the other renewable projects. The people who are funded by those tax dollars are cronies of the politicians in power. That is what I am against.

 

[Old Rocks]

Yet I'm not the one inventing a new conspiracy theory to cover for his old conspiracy theory getting debunked.

Your anti-renewable vendetta keeps looking dumber. Do you plan to cling to it forever, or will you be staging a stealthy retreat from it soon? I'd suggest the latter. Don't worry, I won't hang it over your head.

I don't have an "anti-renewable" agenda. I do have a anti-inefficient, anti-corruption agenda though. Solar power exists purely because of tax payer dollars. If they were gone, so would the solar industry be gone. The same go's for wind and all the other renewable projects. The people who are funded by those tax dollars are cronies of the politicians in power. That is what I am against.

Once again, Walleyes resorts to lies to cover the fact that he is against any kind of energy that does not use fossil fuels.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/24/b...-win-on-price-vs-conventional-fuels.html?_r=0

And, also in Oklahoma, American Electric Power ended up tripling the amount of wind power it had originally sought after seeing how low the bids came in last year.

“Wind was on sale — it was a Blue Light Special,” said Jay Godfrey, managing director of renewable energy for the company. He noted that Oklahoma, unlike many states, did not require utilities to buy power from renewable sources.

“We were doing it because it made sense for our ratepayers,” he said.

According to a study by the investment banking firm Lazard, the cost of utility-scale solar energy is as low as 5.6 cents a kilowatt-hour, and wind is as low as 1.4 cents. In comparison, natural gas comes at 6.1 cents a kilowatt-hour on the low end and coal at 6.6 cents. Without subsidies, the firm’s analysis shows, solar costs about 7.2 cents a kilowatt-hour at the low end, with wind at 3.7 cents.

Given coal and gas also get subsidies, wind and solar are going to push both out of the market in the coming decade. Grid scale batteries will see to that.

Oncor proposes giant leap for grid batteries Dallas Morning News

Oncor, which runs Texas’ largest power line network, is willing to bet battery technology is ready for wide-scale deployment across the grid.

In a move that stands to radically shift the dynamics of the industry, Oncor is set to announce Monday that it is prepared to invest more than $2 billion to store electricity in thousands of batteries across North and West Texas beginning in 2018.
..........................................................................................
The Dallas-based transmission company is proposing the installation of 5,000 megawatts of batteries not just in its service area but across Texas’ entire grid. That is the equivalent of four nuclear power plants on a grid with a capacity of about 81,000 megawatts.

Ranging from refrigerator- to dumpster-size, the batteries would be installed behind shopping centers and in neighborhoods. Statewide, Oncor estimates a total price tag of $5.2 billion. A study commissioned by Oncor with the Brattle Group, a Massachusetts consulting firm that provides power market analysis for state regulators, says the project would not raise bills. Revenue from rental of storage space on the batteries, along with a decrease in power prices and transmission costs, should actually decrease the average Texas residential power bill 34 cents to $179.66 a month, the report said.