Huge Solar Fail

[westwall]

Yet I'm not the one inventing a new conspiracy theory to cover for his old conspiracy theory getting debunked.

Your anti-renewable vendetta keeps looking dumber. Do you plan to cling to it forever, or will you be staging a stealthy retreat from it soon? I'd suggest the latter. Don't worry, I won't hang it over your head.

I don't have an "anti-renewable" agenda. I do have a anti-inefficient, anti-corruption agenda though. Solar power exists purely because of tax payer dollars. If they were gone, so would the solar industry be gone. The same go's for wind and all the other renewable projects. The people who are funded by those tax dollars are cronies of the politicians in power. That is what I am against.

Once again, Walleyes resorts to lies to cover the fact that he is against any kind of energy that does not use fossil fuels.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/24/b...-win-on-price-vs-conventional-fuels.html?_r=0

And, also in Oklahoma, American Electric Power ended up tripling the amount of wind power it had originally sought after seeing how low the bids came in last year.

“Wind was on sale — it was a Blue Light Special,” said Jay Godfrey, managing director of renewable energy for the company. He noted that Oklahoma, unlike many states, did not require utilities to buy power from renewable sources.

“We were doing it because it made sense for our ratepayers,” he said.

According to a study by the investment banking firm Lazard, the cost of utility-scale solar energy is as low as 5.6 cents a kilowatt-hour, and wind is as low as 1.4 cents. In comparison, natural gas comes at 6.1 cents a kilowatt-hour on the low end and coal at 6.6 cents. Without subsidies, the firm’s analysis shows, solar costs about 7.2 cents a kilowatt-hour at the low end, with wind at 3.7 cents.

Given coal and gas also get subsidies, wind and solar are going to push both out of the market in the coming decade. Grid scale batteries will see to that.

Oncor proposes giant leap for grid batteries Dallas Morning News

Oncor, which runs Texas’ largest power line network, is willing to bet battery technology is ready for wide-scale deployment across the grid.

In a move that stands to radically shift the dynamics of the industry, Oncor is set to announce Monday that it is prepared to invest more than $2 billion to store electricity in thousands of batteries across North and West Texas beginning in 2018.
..........................................................................................
The Dallas-based transmission company is proposing the installation of 5,000 megawatts of batteries not just in its service area but across Texas’ entire grid. That is the equivalent of four nuclear power plants on a grid with a capacity of about 81,000 megawatts.

Ranging from refrigerator- to dumpster-size, the batteries would be installed behind shopping centers and in neighborhoods. Statewide, Oncor estimates a total price tag of $5.2 billion. A study commissioned by Oncor with the Brattle Group, a Massachusetts consulting firm that provides power market analysis for state regulators, says the project would not raise bills. Revenue from rental of storage space on the batteries, along with a decrease in power prices and transmission costs, should actually decrease the average Texas residential power bill 34 cents to $179.66 a month, the report said.

The only liar here is you. The fossil fuel "subsidies" are the normal tax abatements that ANY business gets. The renewable energy sector would cease to exist the second the taxpayer money was taken away from it. The only effect that taking away the rebates to the fossil fuel industry would be to see our energy rates go up. And not by that much either. If you take away the extra taxes we have to pay to the energy companies that they have to give to the feds to support the crap, the rates would be lower.

See how that works?


And I love how you blissfully ignore the toxic impact that 5000 megawatts of batteries would have on any area where they are manufactured and emplaced. Talk about a brainless fool. You truly take the cake.

 

[Decus]

Isn't Ivanpah the solar plant that:

• received a $1.6 billion dollar federal loan and is now asking for a $500 million dollar grant to help pay pay down the federal loan?
• the solar plant that is producing less than 50% of it's promised energy production?
• the solar plant that recently asked for permission to use more natural gas to keep it's turbines running so that it could produce energy?
• the solar plant that covers some 5 square miles of public lands managed by the federal government?
• the solar plant that kills birds at an alarming rate for such an "environmentally-friendly" facility?

Ivanpah is a failure on ohh so many levels.

 

[Decus]

I forgot to mention that Ivanpah is only capable of powering some 170.000 homes. What a waste of resources.

 

[mamooth]

The root of the anti-renewable conspiracy theory seems to be a hatred of success.

That is, their own side always fails, so success makes them look bad, so they have to concoct these ever wilder conspiracy theories to deny the success.

 

[Decus]

If reality disagrees with your hopes than it must be a conspiracy.

 

[mamooth]

Your kook logic is "Ivanpah isn't doing well, therefore all renewables are failing."

That's an amazingly stupid thing to conclude. Do you say it because you're just awful at basic logic, or do you say it because your cult ordered you to?

Not especially important, of course. Reality-deniers like you are just boring, not worth spending excessive time on.

 

[Decus]

I never said all renewables are failing. You really are delusional.

The investments made and promised energy production not achieved are facts regarding Ivanpah's performance and increasingly show it to be a waste of resources and a failure.

 

[HenryBHough]

Imagine what one flock of well-fed sea gulls could to to the output stats in a single low pass.

 

[westwall]

The root of the anti-renewable conspiracy theory seems to be a hatred of success.

That is, their own side always fails, so success makes them look bad, so they have to concoct these ever wilder conspiracy theories to deny the success.

The root of anti-science asshattery is claiming that a total failure is somehow successful. And you dipshits wonder why the Dems got swept from office....

 

[westwall]

Your kook logic is "Ivanpah isn't doing well, therefore all renewables are failing."

That's an amazingly stupid thing to conclude. Do you say it because you're just awful at basic logic, or do you say it because your cult ordered you to?

Not especially important, of course. Reality-deniers like you are just boring, not worth spending excessive time on.

Then why post your anti-factual BS? If we're soooooo unimportant you should feel free to ignore us.

 

[Old Rocks]

Given that the utilities ultra-liberal states of Texas and Oklahoma are investing big in alternatives and grid scale batteries, I would say that the people that matter have felt very free to ignore your ignorant rants.

 

[elektra]

Solar and wind use massive amounts of oil, no wonder the oil companies and places like Texas want them, an increase in oil demand is just more profit.

Biggest things in the world, made with oil.

And yet after all these record breaking massive in size renewable green energy projects, we need more oil, not less?

 

[Roguewave]

Those here and elsewhere making excuses for this colossal rent-seeking boondoggle should take on the points made in two articles by the American Enterprise Institute. In those, math is not your friend. It is spelled out how this project produces electricity at grossly exorbitant rates in comparison with reliable conventional methods even as it must be backed by those reliable methods during times it cannot produce electricity. And that was before the projections for Ivanpah upon which they made their pitch to tap into the public till fell short by 75% in actual practice. This solar tower project was priced at three times the uncompetitive cost of even shore-based wind projects before the real production figures 4X less than promised came in. Abysmal.

A rose by any other name is still a rose. Whatever name you want to call a grant, the $539M now being demanded by the Ivanpah owners from taxpayers to pay off a loan already given them by those same taxpayers merely exposes the financial circle-jerk behind the subsidizing of this Solyndra in the desert.

That the project is now revising its methane burning up by 450% to levels equal to a gas generation power plant of 200 MWh is icing on the cake of critics. You fanboys have a lot more excusing to do.

http://www.aei.org/publication/cali...burning-up-taxpayer-money-land-and-wildlife/q

Chutzpah and Soviet agriculture An update on the Ivanpah solar power monstrosity AEI

Incidentally, even if one buys into the excuses issued for "bad weather" as the cause of the gross shortfall in production, it should be noted they were forewarned by people who lived there that the weather in the area was far from what their "experts" forecasted in planning.

Ivanpah Solar Electric generating System Capacity

Dollars is how we keep score.

 

[mamooth]

Check it out, another one who thinks Ivanpah is the only solar facility in the world.

I suppose they have to deflect somehow from all their failed predictions of doom.

 

[Roguewave]

It is the sine qua non of econuts and largest investment in that solar Renaissance we have been promised since all those puff pieces in Popular Science from the fifties to today. It is your center piece. Google even bought half of the thing, and is now demanding $539,000,000 to keep it limping along. It has made Google a begger. Now that's progress.

 

[westwall]

Check it out, another one who thinks Ivanpah is the only solar facility in the world.

I suppose they have to deflect somehow from all their failed predictions of doom.

Feel free to present evidence that ANY solar plant is producing as much energy as they claimed they would. mamooth

 

[mamooth]

Nice red herring, Westwall. Was there a point to it? Solar is still succeeding whether or not solar plants achieve 100% of rating all the time.

Oh, I see the point of it now. You're deflecting from the sad failure of all your predictions of doom. Carry on.

 

[elektra]

Nice red herring, Westwall. Was there a point to it? Solar is still succeeding whether or not solar plants achieve 100% of rating all the time.

Oh, I see the point of it now. You're deflecting from the sad failure of all your predictions of doom. Carry on.

Solyndra?

 

[Spare_change]

If it doesnt work in the desert exactly where will it work....

Last weekend in Santa Cruz I helped my friend install 16 panels on his roof. I guess you could call Santa Cruz a coastal desert. Total capacity at noon on a sunny day will be about 3.1 kilowatts.

He brought me in to be a strong back and a weak mind. But, I learned quite a bit. It's almost plug and play. The connections are designed to snap together. Hooked it up to the Romex and down to the fuse box.

It took a few years of talking, and $10,000. But now he's free. He has purchased his freedom. He makes his own power.

Gigantic stimulus-program solar projects out in the desert are not an appropriate application of solar. Where the interests of progtards and Reptards meet is on the homeowner rooftop. It's up on those composite shingles.

The power companies want to keep sending you a bill every month, whether they're selling alternative energy or coal. The future is in distributed power and the grid equivalent of a mesh network where the excess power you generate flows to your most immediate neighbor in need. Harmonious anarchy.

That's what we're setting up here in California. Solar panels are contagious.

You probably want to talk to your friend -- especially, given that the state of California has suspended construction of solar energy sites while a complete environmental assessment is completed (it seems the solar panels reflect heat that has been, literally, cooking birds that fly over).

In addition, virtually every city in California has a law that says you can't produce 100% of your own energy needs - that you are required to purchase a certain percentage of your energy (depending on the city) from the local power company. This is done in order to help them offset the infrastructure costs of their power generation and distribution systems.

Your friend is a lawbreaker ----

 

[westwall]

Nice red herring, Westwall. Was there a point to it? Solar is still succeeding whether or not solar plants achieve 100% of rating all the time.

Oh, I see the point of it now. You're deflecting from the sad failure of all your predictions of doom. Carry on.

Yes, the point is that NO solar plant, anywhere on the planet, is producing as much energy as you all claim they will. NOT ONE! That is the very definition of epic fail. And where have I ever predicted "doom"? That's your schtick.