How would you handle this dilemma regarding a daughter's confiscated cell phone?

Parents who don't monitor their children's interactions with other people end up being parents of Columbine shooters
This is ridiculous. Perhaps you should just go ahead and call them nazis while you're at it? How irrational. Do not dare substitute ideas about parenting in regards to psychiatric PATHOLOGY. If you actually decided to educate yourself on this matter instead of draw bullshit conclusions from your limited experience of being ONE parent, you'd have known the parents of the Columbine psychopath ran the house very strictly due to military experience. Now that the FACTS are on my side, I could draw the same ridiculous conclusion that being super strict and intrusive leads to school shootings. But the kid had a psychiatric disorder. I would no more blame the parenting for that then if their kid had Down syndrome.

Not only that, I think a kid has to be 18 to open a facebook page. That implies something right there. If they need my permission, guess what, I'm going to monitor it. There are all sorts of sick fucks out there, and kids are supremely stupid.
So are parents, apparently. Age to join facebook or any other social website is 13. The only thing you just "implied" is that you have no clue what you're talking about. So when you go on to say things like "if they need my permission I'm going to monitor it", guess what?! They don't! And let me guess, you still think you should monitor it, which shows your "justification" is a poor attempt at charade. Don't make excuses for your poor reasoning, ESPECIALLY when it doesn't apply because you don't know what you're talking about.

Bullshit.
Ah. I see. The legitimate research from across the world analyzing thousands of families that is published after being highly scrutinized in reputable peer reviewed journals can be completely discredit NOT because it's bad research, but because one mom doesn't agree. You just exhibited ignorance in a nutshell. You can't find any research that suggests invasion of privacy in adolescents leads to any good outcomes.

You keep asking these desperate questions regarding my experience in parenting in an attempt to discredit me. Forget MY experience. What about yours? As I see it, your experience is as large as ONE household. Maybe two if you want to include your parents. The research I presented draws on experience from THOUSANDS of families. Your unsupported beliefs are insignificant in comparison.

In summation:
  • You know nothing about adolescent psychology
  • You refuse to believe published knowledge well known to the medical community on adolescent psychology
  • You make up poor excuses as to why you should invade privacy, even if those excuses don't apply
  • You know nothing about the parenting techniques of adolescent psychopaths, completely fabricating poor assumptions to fill in your deficits
  • You know nothing about the actual constrictions of electronic communication, completing fabricating poor assumptions to fill in your deficits, and yet despite all these limitations and shortcomings:
  • You still think you are in a good position to tell others "how it is"

What you haven't realized is that there's more than one way to skin a cat. Instead of forcing your safety upon them through privacy invasion, at the cost of increased likelihood of poor grades, depression, and anxiety, why not teach them how to fend for themselves? Or perhaps you believe your children are too moronic to understand strangers with candy are bad?

I know it can be very upsetting and insulting to hear that thousands of families prove your method of parenting is not actually the best way to raise a young adult. I get that's why you're very defensive right now. Chances are even if you remain stubborn instead of acknowledging legitimate research, your children are still going to turn out just fine. There will just be much more anxiety, conflict, and depression taking the place of learning and fostering independence.

Oh yawn. You are so wrong it's painful. I hope you'll learn as you age, before you have kids.

The columbine kids' parents knew NOTHING about what those kids were doing in their spare time. They respected their privacy.

Come to think of it..Jeffrey Dahmer is another example of a kid who was MSWs generally agree with my view. We talk about this stuff on a daily basis.
 
Parents who don't monitor their children's interactions with other people end up being parents of Columbine shooters
This is ridiculous.



Bullshit.
Ah. I see.

In summation:
  • You know nothing about adolescent psychology
.

Oh yawn. You are so wrong it's painful. I hope you'll learn as you age, before you have kids.

The columbine kids' parents knew NOTHING about what those kids were doing in their spare time. They respected their privacy.

Come to think of it..Jeffrey Dahmer is another example of a kid who was MSWs generally agree with my view. We talk about this stuff on a daily basis.

Do you guys honestly believe the kid in the OP has Jeffrey Dahmer potential?

....14 yr old daughter, my youngest and last child. She's fallen down on the job, as she's starting to spread her wings in her first year of High School. She's a great kid, strong-willed, highly intelligent, plays soccer, responsible student, and very pretty, blue-eyed blond adorable.

That she's been taking pics of half-eaten corpses and keeping them on her cell phone?
 
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One thing I know, teenagers of today are given way too much freedom. A lot of them are handed the keys to the car, or given their own cars, without much accountability. There is social pressure on parents, as well, to cave into this unfortunate societal norm. Especially our daughters need our protection and oversight, in these days when giving blow jobs not considered anything more than making out, and some girls will do anything to keep a boyfriend. Date rape drugs can be easily slipped into drinks at parties, with dire results, as is what happened in these parts only very recently.

Teenage girls are naive and vulnerable.

I'm guessing you are a grand champion Dad, Middleman. And while it does help to share your thoughts and get input and perspectives, you know your daughter better than any of us here. Some are right that a cell phone is not a necessity these days, but if I still had kids with 'roaming privileges' at home, they would have one. I would hate to think that they needed to get out of a bad situation and would have no way to call for help. Public phones are almost impossible to come by these days.

And I also agree that trusting a 14-yr-old to exercise good judgment in all things is a very foolish thing to do, but I think your instincts re trusting a daughter who has thus far merited trust is a wise thing to do. If there is no reward for mostly responsible behavior, there might be less reason to bother being responsible.

I also was 14 once and I had thoughts and said stuff and talked about stuff that was not bad, but I would have been terribly embarrassed to know that my parents or other adults knew about it. And that could account for locking the phone.

I liked your instincts to just ask her why she locked it. Or if you want to be sneakier about it (albeit a bit more dishonest), 'misplace' your phone and ask her to unlock hers so you can call yours. And that would give you an opening to ask how come she locked it?

I'm guessing you're more on the right track here than you're giving yourself credit for.
 
This is ridiculous.




Ah. I see.

In summation:
  • You know nothing about adolescent psychology
.

Oh yawn. You are so wrong it's painful. I hope you'll learn as you age, before you have kids.

The columbine kids' parents knew NOTHING about what those kids were doing in their spare time. They respected their privacy.

Come to think of it..Jeffrey Dahmer is another example of a kid who was MSWs generally agree with my view. We talk about this stuff on a daily basis.

Do you guys honestly believe the kid in the OP has Jeffrey Dahmer potential?

....14 yr old daughter, my youngest and last child. She's fallen down on the job, as she's starting to spread her wings in her first year of High School. She's a great kid, strong-willed, highly intelligent, plays soccer, responsible student, and very pretty, blue-eyed blond adorable.

That she's been taking pics of half-eaten corpses and keeping them on her cell phone?

Statistically speaking, it's unlikely.

The point is, parents never think their kids are being targeted, or targeting others, until it's too late. And that is because... (drum roll)....

they have opted out of their kids' lives. Affording them all the privacy they would afford to their bosses (since it's unlikely they'd allow co-workers to have that much privacy) and other adult figures of authority.

In other words, pretending the kids are grown up, responsible adults long before they are, and at the peril of their kid.
 
Oh yawn. You are so wrong it's painful. I hope you'll learn as you age, before you have kids.

The columbine kids' parents knew NOTHING about what those kids were doing in their spare time. They respected their privacy.

This is still false. Had you bothered to read the news article I gave you that outlined the parenting of those kids, you would have seen that they were involved. I don't see it too high of an expectation for you to use rational facts instead of making up details, especially when I provide you directly with the facts. Their parents immediately intervened with psychiatric help and intervention when they quickly found out small pipe bombs were being made. What you continue to fail to acknowledge is that this kid was a psychopath. Trying to compare any child to a psychopath with regard to parenting is just desperate reasoning. Middleman's 14 year old daughter didn't call home when she was supposed to. Stop comparing her to someone who tried to kill others. Part of life is appropriate reaction, and that does NOT include spying on your children when they've done absolutely nothing wrong to deserve distrust.

The fact still remains that if a 14 year old wants to hide something from you, they will. If you search their room on a weekly basis, guess where they WON'T be putting the things they are hiding. If they know you're accessing their Facebook account, they'll just make a second you don't know about. If they know you're reading their texts, they need but delete them from the phone and you'll never see them. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to hide something from a predictably overbearing parent. The only foolish thing is believing you know everything about your child. Convince yourself you're smarter than them all you like, but they can and will outsmart you if desired.

Statistically speaking, it's unlikely.

The point is, parents never think their kids are being targeted, or targeting others, until it's too late. And that is because... (drum roll)....

they have opted out of their kids' lives. Affording them all the privacy they would afford to their bosses (since it's unlikely they'd allow co-workers to have that much privacy) and other adult figures of authority.

In other words, pretending the kids are grown up, responsible adults long before they are, and at the peril of their kid.
Again, you seem to only see this issue in extremes, where kids are either prone to any exploration you deem fit without regard for privacy, or they're your boss and completely off limits. Had you read the articles, you'd see that limit setting is a perfectly beneficial hands-on method of interaction. TEACHING your kids what to identify and ASKING them about their lives is much better than FORCING things from them.

You have yet to bridge the point that hands on parenting without intrusion into privacy makes them any more likely to be targeted. This is yet anther poorly constructed assumption you pulled out of thin air. I've lost track of how many you're up to at this point.
 
I know everyone's been dying for my opinion, so here it is... :)

Tell your daughter she may not lock her phone unless she gives you the password. If she does, she loses the phone permanently.

Tell her you will not read her texts unless you have cause to believe she is going off the rails.

Easy.

This is good, simple advise actually. It also requires some trust on her part. Because, putting a password on her phone tells me that she distrusts me, when on the other hand she would like me to totally trust her. It's direct and to the point too.
 
YOu have the phone bill? All calls to and from are logged on the bill.

As are all text messages.

Unless you are afraid she is sexting (kind of early for that with a 14 year old) I would just check the bill. Which is what you should be doing anyway

While I think it is good for young teens to have a cell phone. I would never want mine to have one with a Camera or Internet or any of that crap.

To many ways to get in trouble with that.
 
By not trusting her, she loses a bit of trust in you. You'll scour the phone to find out she's a good kid, which apparently you weren't able to tell from the start.

So what do you think she's learned from this? What have you taught her?
 
By not trusting her, she loses a bit of trust in you. You'll scour the phone to find out she's a good kid, which apparently you weren't able to tell from the start.

So what do you think she's learned from this? What have you taught her?

You are negative and judgmental, aren't you? And smarter than a hick, congrats. :clap2:
 
You've taught her that you are willing to shoulder her displeasure in order to keep her safe and enforce the rules.

It's a good lesson.

Check your kids' phones and facebook pages and keep them safe.

I'm starting to think that Hick may be using them as some sort of venue.
 
You pay the bill, you have the right to know the code. No code, no phone. Having the code does not mean you will or would violate her privacy, but should, God forbid, something happen to her and all you have is her phone, access to information on the phone could be crucial to figuring things out. Should her personality change for some reason, again, information on the phone could be crucial in finding out what's going on.

I've had this conversation with my eighteen year old daughter. I told her, as long as I pay the bill, I don't care if you're thirty, I get the code. I told her I woulod not violate her privacy unless she or a situation gave me a very good reason to do so.
 
And discuss regularly with the kids when texting is appropriate, and when it isn''t. And what is appropriate on facebook...and what isn't. It's not a place to spill your guts or to advertise your loneliness or your schedule.
 
How I got the code is as follows:

My older daughter's friend spent the night on Saturday. She had gotten her phone confiscated many times last year. She came downstairs before the other girls woke up, and I was up. I asked her if she had a code on her phone, and if so had her mom wanted her code when she took the phone. I asked her how she felt and how she thought my daughter would feel. We talked about the situation and she gave me her insights. I told her not to blab our conversation, knowing she probably would.

We had a shopping trip planned for a town 30 miles from here that has a Fred Meyers, which is the closest 'real' shopping. The girls were going to go the the public indoor pool, then they needed new bras and also wanted to spend some of their own money. On the way home, they were able to work the subject of cellphone codes into the conversation 'coincidentally', lol. I mentioned to younger daughter that I had noticed she had put a code on her phone before handing it over. She didn't want to have to change it because she thought it was a great code, I said I didn't want to discuss it right then (in front of the other girls)

I brought up the subject when we were alone, once we got home and she gave me the code. I told her that I wasn't nosy and didn't want to invade her privacy, but I that I paid for the phone and needed the code.

It went really well and she seemed unruffled. I'm proud of her because she's acting more mature and appreciative than normal. She was really happy about getting all the bras and very courteous in thanking me, and it all seemed genuine.
 
And discuss regularly with the kids when texting is appropriate, and when it isn''t. And what is appropriate on facebook...and what isn't. It's not a place to spill your guts or to advertise your loneliness or your schedule.

I think the kids rely on texting too much. They want to discuss everything via text.

That was part of this whole problem. I need a real conversation before making a decision regarding giving permission for something. I think texting is not an appropriate media for important conversations.
 
And discuss regularly with the kids when texting is appropriate, and when it isn''t. And what is appropriate on facebook...and what isn't. It's not a place to spill your guts or to advertise your loneliness or your schedule.

I think the kids rely on texting too much. They want to discuss everything via text.

That was part of this whole problem. I need a real conversation before making a decision regarding giving permission for something. I think texting is not an appropriate media for important conversations.

It certainly is not an appropriate media for texting something you don't want plastered all over Facebook or otherwise made widely public. Ditto for pictures and other stuff that could be an embarrassment or used against you later on.
 
And discuss regularly with the kids when texting is appropriate, and when it isn''t. And what is appropriate on facebook...and what isn't. It's not a place to spill your guts or to advertise your loneliness or your schedule.

I think the kids rely on texting too much. They want to discuss everything via text.

That was part of this whole problem. I need a real conversation before making a decision regarding giving permission for something. I think texting is not an appropriate media for important conversations.

It certainly is not an appropriate media for texting something you don't want plastered all over Facebook or otherwise made widely public. Ditto for pictures and other stuff that could be an embarrassment or used against you later on.

Confiscating the phone, and breaking into the photos with the secret code will not prevent the daughter's distribution of skanky pics if that's the way she wants to play (which I doubt based on MM's description of his daughter in the OP).
 
well middle did you unlock the phone and look?

i would. simple as that.....kids can bluff and they are rely on the fact that most parents dont really want to know
 

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