How would you handle this dilemma regarding a daughter's confiscated cell phone?

[SmarterThanHick]

Yes. Research shows that limit setting and teaching kids to be responsible for themselves always produces better results than forcing undesirable outcomes by invasion of privacy. Accountability does not come from spying. That only produces fear and smarter hiding.

Come back when you've raised a teenager and have actual practical experience.

Come back when you've raised over 1000 teenagers and have actual experience outside of a personal anecdote. No one person can compete with the experience and knowledge gained from research on the masses.

The FACT still remains that outside of your incredibly narrow vision of the world regarding your ONE family, invasion of privacy and psychological control has been clearly linked to lower school grades and increased psychiatric symptoms, whereas limit setting and behavioral control leads to increased grades, and good independent decision making.

You can continue to convince yourself that invading your child's privacy somehow helped them, but it didn't. You have NO way to compare to what the outcome would have been had you not used such invasive methods. And I do.

 

[kwc57]

Yes. Research shows that limit setting and teaching kids to be responsible for themselves always produces better results than forcing undesirable outcomes by invasion of privacy. Accountability does not come from spying. That only produces fear and smarter hiding.

Come back when you've raised a teenager and have actual practical experience.

Come back when you've raised over 1000 teenagers and have actual experience outside of a personal anecdote. No one person can compete with the experience and knowledge gained from research on the masses.

The FACT still remains that outside of your incredibly narrow vision of the world regarding your ONE family, invasion of privacy and psychological control has been clearly linked to lower school grades and increased psychiatric symptoms, whereas limit setting and behavioral control leads to increased grades, and good independent decision making.

You can continue to convince yourself that invading your child's privacy somehow helped them, but it didn't. You have NO way to compare to what the outcome would have been had you not used such invasive methods. And I do.

My "narrow" experience goes far beyond raising my only child. I've personally worked one on one with hundreds of kids at church, sports, school and scouts over a 30+ year period. I'll take personal experience over numbers on a page every time, but knock yourself out. Your response lends itself to the assumption by many that you have no children. You sound like the people who like to talk about their "child" (dog) when other people are dsicussing their kids. There is no real comparison.

 

[SmarterThanHick]

Come back when you've raised a teenager and have actual practical experience.

Come back when you've raised over 1000 teenagers and have actual experience outside of a personal anecdote. No one person can compete with the experience and knowledge gained from research on the masses.

The FACT still remains that outside of your incredibly narrow vision of the world regarding your ONE family, invasion of privacy and psychological control has been clearly linked to lower school grades and increased psychiatric symptoms, whereas limit setting and behavioral control leads to increased grades, and good independent decision making.

You can continue to convince yourself that invading your child's privacy somehow helped them, but it didn't. You have NO way to compare to what the outcome would have been had you not used such invasive methods. And I do.

My "narrow" experience goes far beyond raising my only child. I've personally worked one on one with hundreds of kids at church, sports, school and scouts over a 30+ year period. I'll take personal experience over numbers on a page every time, but knock yourself out. Your response lends itself to the assumption by many that you have no children. You sound like the people who like to talk about their "child" (dog) when other people are dsicussing their kids. There is no real comparison.

Oh so you're saying you've physically SEEN lots of kids before, having absolutely nothing to do with their personal experiences with their parents, and believe that somehow "counts" over the "numbers on a page" taken directly from children and families on this very topic. Or are you saying you would invade the privacy of the boys you "worked one on one with" in scouts?

How do you think your experience compares to pediatricians? What about child psychiatrists? What about a combination of many from each of those medical specialties coming together from countries around the world to investigate this very issue? You still think your "30+ year period" of teaching kids how to setup a tent is worth more than beans compared to what these professionals see in a week?

Yes. Your experience remains narrow, and your judgment short-sighted.

 

[kwc57]

Come back when you've raised over 1000 teenagers and have actual experience outside of a personal anecdote. No one person can compete with the experience and knowledge gained from research on the masses.

The FACT still remains that outside of your incredibly narrow vision of the world regarding your ONE family, invasion of privacy and psychological control has been clearly linked to lower school grades and increased psychiatric symptoms, whereas limit setting and behavioral control leads to increased grades, and good independent decision making.

You can continue to convince yourself that invading your child's privacy somehow helped them, but it didn't. You have NO way to compare to what the outcome would have been had you not used such invasive methods. And I do.

My "narrow" experience goes far beyond raising my only child. I've personally worked one on one with hundreds of kids at church, sports, school and scouts over a 30+ year period. I'll take personal experience over numbers on a page every time, but knock yourself out. Your response lends itself to the assumption by many that you have no children. You sound like the people who like to talk about their "child" (dog) when other people are dsicussing their kids. There is no real comparison.

Oh so you're saying you've physically SEEN lots of kids before, having absolutely nothing to do with their personal experiences with their parents, and believe that somehow "counts" over the "numbers on a page" taken directly from children and families on this very topic. Or are you saying you would invade the privacy of the boys you "worked one on one with" in scouts?

How do you think your experience compares to pediatricians? What about child psychiatrists? What about a combination of many from each of those medical specialties coming together from countries around the world to investigate this very issue? You still think your "30+ year period" of teaching kids how to setup a tent is worth more than beans compared to what these professionals see in a week?

Yes. Your experience remains narrow, and your judgment short-sighted.

If you honestly think that teaching a boy how to set up a tent is the sum total of what scouting is about, then you've just proven how clueless you actually are. It's obvious by your lack of response to the question of whether or not you have children that you do not. But you make a great armchair paper quarterback.

 

[Middleman]

My daughter got her cellphone back today. She's doing really well. I'm proud of how she took her medicine. I think the whole incident brought us closer.

 

[SmarterThanHick]

My "narrow" experience goes far beyond raising my only child. I've personally worked one on one with hundreds of kids at church, sports, school and scouts over a 30+ year period. I'll take personal experience over numbers on a page every time, but knock yourself out. Your response lends itself to the assumption by many that you have no children. You sound like the people who like to talk about their "child" (dog) when other people are dsicussing their kids. There is no real comparison.

Oh so you're saying you've physically SEEN lots of kids before, having absolutely nothing to do with their personal experiences with their parents, and believe that somehow "counts" over the "numbers on a page" taken directly from children and families on this very topic. Or are you saying you would invade the privacy of the boys you "worked one on one with" in scouts?

How do you think your experience compares to pediatricians? What about child psychiatrists? What about a combination of many from each of those medical specialties coming together from countries around the world to investigate this very issue? You still think your "30+ year period" of teaching kids how to setup a tent is worth more than beans compared to what these professionals see in a week?

Yes. Your experience remains narrow, and your judgment short-sighted.

If you honestly think that teaching a boy how to set up a tent is the sum total of what scouting is about, then you've just proven how clueless you actually are. It's obvious by your lack of response to the question of whether or not you have children that you do not. But you make a great armchair paper quarterback.

If you honestly think that teaching a boy in scouts is the sum total of what parenting is about, then you've just proven how clueless you actually are. It's obvious by your lack of response to the question of whether or not you've raised thousands of families through both invasion and respect of privacy, and have any pediatric or child psychiatry background that you do not. But you make a great armchair paper quarterback.

The difference between me and you is I provide evidence, and you continue to provide anecdote despite lack of relevant experience.

 

[Emeraldgreen]

I think a parent needs to give a child a sense of privacy. If there is no reason to suspect, then no reason to snoop. and if you are don't do it secretly, ask her to unlock the phone.

 

[kwc57]

Oh so you're saying you've physically SEEN lots of kids before, having absolutely nothing to do with their personal experiences with their parents, and believe that somehow "counts" over the "numbers on a page" taken directly from children and families on this very topic. Or are you saying you would invade the privacy of the boys you "worked one on one with" in scouts?

How do you think your experience compares to pediatricians? What about child psychiatrists? What about a combination of many from each of those medical specialties coming together from countries around the world to investigate this very issue? You still think your "30+ year period" of teaching kids how to setup a tent is worth more than beans compared to what these professionals see in a week?

Yes. Your experience remains narrow, and your judgment short-sighted.

If you honestly think that teaching a boy how to set up a tent is the sum total of what scouting is about, then you've just proven how clueless you actually are. It's obvious by your lack of response to the question of whether or not you have children that you do not. But you make a great armchair paper quarterback.

If you honestly think that teaching a boy in scouts is the sum total of what parenting is about, then you've just proven how clueless you actually are. It's obvious by your lack of response to the question of whether or not you've raised thousands of families through both invasion and respect of privacy, and have any pediatric or child psychiatry background that you do not. But you make a great armchair paper quarterback.

The difference between me and you is I provide evidence, and you continue to provide anecdote despite lack of relevant experience.

You don't provide evidence, you provide statisitcs. I provide actual boots on the ground experience.

He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lampposts—for support rather than for illumination. - Andrew Lang

 

[SmarterThanHick]

You don't provide evidence, you provide statisitcs.

I fail to see the difference. Perhaps I should end my post with an anecdotal quote hoping that lends more support to my argument? No, instead I think I'll just stick to facts. And those facts are shown through extensive research repeated around the world which you continue to blindly deny because of your narrowed world view. It's great you've helped with scouts, but you're delusional if you think that gives you some insight into how or why privacy vs intrusion affects long term outcomes in things completely unrelated to scouts. Or do you really think you can produce a generalized outcome of school grades and psychiatric evaluation by seeing the small fraction of the MALE teenage population that signs up for scouts?

You can stop grasping at straws now.

 

[kwc57]

You don't provide evidence, you provide statisitcs.

I fail to see the difference. Perhaps I should end my post with an anecdotal quote hoping that lends more support to my argument? No, instead I think I'll just stick to facts. And those facts are shown through extensive research repeated around the world which you continue to blindly deny because of your narrowed world view. It's great you've helped with scouts, but you're delusional if you think that gives you some insight into how or why privacy vs intrusion affects long term outcomes in things completely unrelated to scouts. Or do you really think you can produce a generalized outcome of school grades and psychiatric evaluation by seeing the small fraction of the MALE teenage population that signs up for scouts?

You can stop grasping at straws now.

You are of course well aware that statistics can and often are manipulated for a person or groups ends. Global warming comes to mind.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

My youngest (he's 21) came form from college 2 weekends ago. On the drive back to the bus, he told me he forgot his cell phone in his room and that "It's not a big deal, I'll get it back when I'm home again in 2 weeks" and I was like "what the fuck? How is that supposed to work?"

When my oldest went to Italy for a month last May he too said, he didn't need a phone. I got my oldest an International Phone from Verizon for the month he was in Italy and when he came back he said he was grateful to be able to stay in touch with people.

I had my younger one's cell phone on my nightstand that Sunday and and it must have rang 14 different times between 8pm and 8 am.

So, first thing Monday morning the phone is in a FedEx bag so he could have it Tuesday.

Cell phone is how this generation stays in touch, they call they text. Not having one is like dropping off the grid.

 

[SmarterThanHick]

You are of course well aware that statistics can and often are manipulated for a person or groups ends. Global warming comes to mind.

It's sad that the best thing you have to refute this well established evidence is the equivalent to "it's not true". Keep ignoring all evidence, and MAYBE that might start working for you. But we're not talking about a political poll with biased examiners. We're talking about unbiased research with standardized evaluations. Or do you also doubt all of modern medicine because it's just "statistics manipulated for a person"? That's just plain stupid.

You can read the articles and see exactly what they did to acquire their data. The statistics you like to hand waive are just the compilation of those factual data from real people around the world. But that means you'd need to actually read something and address actual methods. And it's clear that's not going to happen from people like you.

 

[AllieBaba]

Hick is an idiot. Research told us at one time that the world was flat. Research is wrong all the time. Research told us that children with polio should be strapped to boards. Wrong.

Add to that the fact that quite often, the research itself is faulty; results are tampered with, populations are hand picked, and often things are just made up. The "psychological" community is still reeling from the fact that Freud was, in fact, primarily a fraud. They're still clinging to his work because it opened up the field; but everybody recognizes his research was pure, unadulterated, unethical crap. He lied. He might have been right in the end about some things....but it wasn't proven by his research because his research was dishonest.

 

[Ravi]

Research didn't tell us the world was flat. Personal anecdote did.

Research told us the world was not flat.

 

[Sarah G]

My youngest (he's 21) came form from college 2 weekends ago. On the drive back to the bus, he told me he forgot his cell phone in his room and that "It's not a big deal, I'll get it back when I'm home again in 2 weeks" and I was like "what the fuck? How is that supposed to work?"

When my oldest went to Italy for a month last May he too said, he didn't need a phone. I got my oldest an International Phone from Verizon for the month he was in Italy and when he came back he said he was grateful to be able to stay in touch with people.

I had my younger one's cell phone on my nightstand that Sunday and and it must have rang 14 different times between 8pm and 8 am.

So, first thing Monday morning the phone is in a FedEx bag so he could have it Tuesday.

Cell phone is how this generation stays in touch, they call they text. Not having one is like dropping off the grid.

Oh yeah, good idea about the international phone but I also had an ipad on my recent trip to Montreal/Quebec City. I put the book I'm reading on it and everyone used it to check email. 1 person changed her phone plan to make international calls so we were covered.

Your college kid needs his phone, nice of you to send it.

 

[Sarah G]

About phone confiscation. I'm against it solely for safety reasons with the kids. I'm pro communication rather than spying. Even if they don't give you any indication of what they talk about, who they're talking to, you should give them info about staying safe and happy.

 

[strollingbones]

My youngest (he's 21) came form from college 2 weekends ago. On the drive back to the bus, he told me he forgot his cell phone in his room and that "It's not a big deal, I'll get it back when I'm home again in 2 weeks" and I was like "what the fuck? How is that supposed to work?"

When my oldest went to Italy for a month last May he too said, he didn't need a phone. I got my oldest an International Phone from Verizon for the month he was in Italy and when he came back he said he was grateful to be able to stay in touch with people.

I had my younger one's cell phone on my nightstand that Sunday and and it must have rang 14 different times between 8pm and 8 am.

So, first thing Monday morning the phone is in a FedEx bag so he could have it Tuesday.

Cell phone is how this generation stays in touch, they call they text. Not having one is like dropping off the grid.

and the cell phone companies love this attitude.....you must have one...you simply must...

 

[Samson]

So, first thing Monday morning the phone is in a FedEx bag so he could have it Tuesday.

Cell phone is how this generation stays in touch, they call they text. Not having one is like dropping off the grid.

and the cell phone companies love this attitude.....you must have one...you simply must...

Yes, exactly 'Bones, and I'm fucking sick of it: I'm still waiting for a MAJOR report from any media source that says that since The Recession, Americans have chosen the option of cutting cell phone use to save money.

Seems like this would be the first frivoluos expense to go, right?


HEEEEEEELLLLLLLLL NO!

 

[Middleman]

About phone confiscation. I'm against it solely for safety reasons with the kids. I'm pro communication rather than spying. Even if they don't give you any indication of what they talk about, who they're talking to, you should give them info about staying safe and happy.

My daughter's friends all have phones, which helped. I was really missing being about to keep in close touch, so I added her best friend to my contact list.

One of the issues we had regarding the phone was that she wasn't communicating adequately with her phone. One of the new rules is that, if she wants to ask permission or discuss anything important, that she call me, not text. She's been really following that guideline.

I'm glad we went through this because it really improved our communication.

My daughter got straight A's on her report card, and is really doing well!

 

[The Infidel]

My daughter got straight A's on her report card, and is really doing well!