How will eliminating the Estate Tax benefit the Middle class?

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Syriusly, Sep 27, 2017.

  1. Syriusly
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    Syriusly Diamond Member

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    You pretty much gave up from your first post.
     
  2. Spare_change
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    Spare_change Gold Member

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    Your final assumption (declaration?) is intrinsically false. Labor, like any other resource, is priced according to its contribution to the final product. If you are willing to pay an extra $10,000 for an American-made car, then labor has a higher value. If you are willing to pay an extra $11 for an American-made shirt, then labor has a higher value.

    You seem to be under the misconception that labor is an arbitrary value - independent of all other factors. It isn't - it is directly related to the willingness of the consumer to pay a particular price for a particular product. Producers are willing to pay workers exactly as much as the consumer is willing to pay for the product - after costs, after resources, and after a fair profit for those who took the risk of investing.

    Now, as to your "... wealthy have been getting wealthier, and the middle class have been getting poorer." The wealthy have increased their wealth, that is true - but HOW have they increased their wealth? They have invested their money, and recouped a return. They bought stock, they bought insurance, they bought property ... and they have been rewarded. "Their money works for them". They have put their money to work in markets that get them the highest return. That would seem to be the eminently logical approach, don't you think?

    The middle class, on the other hand, has stagnated. They haven't increased their education levels or technical capabilities. They haven't been willing They somehow believe that buggy whip makers should make more money, regardless of the call of the market. They, simply, have not increased the value of the product THEY sell - their labor. "They have to work for their money."

    About the rest of your post - you're right . All those things COULD happen. But, they don't. Yes, you will find some millionaire somewhere who bought a Greek yacht, but then you realize he is docking it in Miami, he is hiring people to guard it, to maintain it, to operate it. All those people are contributing to the US economy, just like all your "seasonal Eastern European workers" at Mar-a-Lago.

    You need to deal in reality - not in fictional scenarios created to justify a spurious position.
     
  3. Syriusly
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    Syriusly Diamond Member

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    "You need to deal in reality - not in fictional scenarios created to justify a spurious position"

    Funny you say that- while at the same time you provide absolutely nothing to back up your justify your spurious position.

    As for my 'final' assumption- I didn't mention the value of labor. That is your strawman.

    Producers are willing to pay workers exactly as much as the consumer is willing to pay for the product - after costs, after resources, and after a fair profit for those who took the risk of investing.

    No- producers are willing to pay workers as low as they can get away with- just as consumers will pay as low as they can get away with. "Fair profit"- really? What is a 'fair' profit? A producer will get as much profit- or lose as much money- as the market circumstances dictate. In a bad year, a producer may be losing money while in a good year, a producer may be raking in the dough- there is nothing 'fair' about Capitalism- the market doesn't care about 'fair'.


    The wealthy have increased their wealth, that is true - but HOW have they increased their wealth? They have invested their money, and recouped a return. They bought stock, they bought insurance, they bought property ... and they have been rewarded. "Their money works for them". They have put their money to work in markets that get them the highest return. That would seem to be the eminently logical approach, don't you think?

    Certainly the wealthy have 'invested' their money. Some have bought real estate and profited by the boom in rising housing prices. Some have bought stocks in existing companies- hence the stock market boom. They have put their money to work- certainly- but that doesn't automatically- as we have seen in the last 20 years- translate into a benefit for the middle class.

    Investments outside the United States not only do not benefit the American middle class, they provide capital for companies to compete against the American middle class. Yes- those producers are putting their money to work- and that doesn't mean it will benefit the American middle class.

    Nor am I saying that investment must benefit the middle class. That has never been my position.

    My position is that Trump and the Republicans are lying to the American people by claiming that this package of tax cuts is specifically to benefit the middle class and to create jobs.

    The Estate tax does not specifically do either. Yes- there may be some trickle down benefit- but you can't quantify it- nor have you even attempted to provide any facts to support your spurious position that eliminating the Estate Tax is for the benefit of the middle class.

    Eliminating the Estate tax is primarily to benefit the wealthiest Americans- and one of the biggest beneficiaries to the elimination of the Estate tax would be the family of Donald Trump.

    If you want to show how the middle class will benefit from the elimination of the estate tax- well provide real numbers- Middle class means singles making between $24,000 and $72,000 annually are middle class.

    70% of Americans consider themselves middle class—but only 50% are

    How much will a single person making $72,000 benefit from the elimination of the Estate Tax?
     
  4. Spare_change
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    Spare_change Gold Member

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    I will defend to the death your right to be deluded and wrong.
     
  5. Conservative65
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    Conservative65 BANNED

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    "Fair" has nothing to do with it.

    Are you OK with lying about anything related to Trump because you can't stand that your bitch lost.
     
  6. Conservative65
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    Conservative65 BANNED

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    Syriusly is the type that if you don't give an answer he likes, he considers it as not answering.
     
  7. Conservative65
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    Conservative65 BANNED

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    Wait, you are so programmed to hear a certain answer that when you don't, you claim people didn't provide one.

    Pucker up, NL. Think for yourself instead of the way your BOY programmed you to think.
     
  8. tigerred59
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    tigerred59 Gold Member

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    (sigh)....when in hell will the GOP realize that trickle down does not work? What fuckin planet does these people live on???? The last entity in this country who needs tax relief are corporations. You can not on the one had, Trump, GOP brag about the market and how booming the highs have been, when wages haven't went up, good paying jobs have yet to materialize and job growth hasn't risen....yet, corporate america rolls trillions in profit, trickle's nothing down and we want to lower their tax rates, which few pay any fuckin way????? The only investing these companies do with these mega profits, is automate their business's and take most of their products on line, creating warehouse jobs.

    Trump, please don't play us as fools, this plan does nothing to help anybody but the rich as usual!!
     
  9. tigerred59
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    tigerred59 Gold Member

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    All this does is help the Trump brats...when daddy dies from clogged arteries and toxic hair dye poisoning.
     
  10. tigerred59
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    tigerred59 Gold Member

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    Fact, the reason Clinton and OBama has such success in jobs growth...they raised taxes on the wealthy!!
     

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