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I will defend to the death your right to be deluded and wrong.Well then inform us. Tell us how this will directly benefit the middle class.
Now, give me that same $100. I invest it, because I don't need a new car, a new mattress, or a new tv. That $100 is invested into a company who uses it to open a new plant in Kentucky. That $100 doesn't cycle down - it cycles UP. I build a plant, I hire people, I produce products. The value of the plant goes UP. The value of the company goes UP. The company's income goes UP. They can invest MORE money in labor, materials, and jobs. The $100 I gave you ends up back in my pocket..
You 'invest it'? Maybe you do- perhaps you buy up a vineyard in France. Perhaps you build a new plant in China.
Or perhaps you 'park' your money in offshore banks that offer higher returns on investments.
Or perhaps you buy a Greek made yacht from a broker in Majorca.
That $100.00 you have can be used in the United States- where it might benefit the middle class, or it might be used in the United States to pay for your membership to Mar A Lago- where it will help benefit the seasonal workers from Eastern Europe brought in to work at the resort. Or you could invest it in Apple stock.......
Or that $100 could be used for investments overseas- taken right out of the United States to be used to compete directly with American workers.
What you can't do is predict with any accuracy how anyone will use their inheritance windfall.
See- I can speculate as easily as you can- but I am not going to pretend my speculation is somehow proof of anything.
For the last 20 years the wealthy have been getting wealthier, and the middle class have been getting poorer. If the wealthy getting more money in their pockets translates to more jobs and more money for the middle class- why hasn't this been happening for the last 20 years?
Your final assumption (declaration?) is intrinsically false. Labor, like any other resource, is priced according to its contribution to the final product. If you are willing to pay an extra $10,000 for an American-made car, then labor has a higher value. If you are willing to pay an extra $11 for an American-made shirt, then labor has a higher value.
You seem to be under the misconception that labor is an arbitrary value - independent of all other factors. It isn't - it is directly related to the willingness of the consumer to pay a particular price for a particular product. Producers are willing to pay workers exactly as much as the consumer is willing to pay for the product - after costs, after resources, and after a fair profit for those who took the risk of investing.
Now, as to your "... wealthy have been getting wealthier, and the middle class have been getting poorer." The wealthy have increased their wealth, that is true - but HOW have they increased their wealth? They have invested their money, and recouped a return. They bought stock, they bought insurance, they bought property ... and they have been rewarded. "Their money works for them". They have put their money to work in markets that get them the highest return. That would seem to be the eminently logical approach, don't you think?
The middle class, on the other hand, has stagnated. They haven't increased their education levels or technical capabilities. They haven't been willing They somehow believe that buggy whip makers should make more money, regardless of the call of the market. They, simply, have not increased the value of the product THEY sell - their labor. "They have to work for their money."
About the rest of your post - you're right . All those things COULD happen. But, they don't. Yes, you will find some millionaire somewhere who bought a Greek yacht, but then you realize he is docking it in Miami, he is hiring people to guard it, to maintain it, to operate it. All those people are contributing to the US economy, just like all your "seasonal Eastern European workers" at Mar-a-Lago.
You need to deal in reality - not in fictional scenarios created to justify a spurious position.
"You need to deal in reality - not in fictional scenarios created to justify a spurious position"
Funny you say that- while at the same time you provide absolutely nothing to back up your justify your spurious position.
As for my 'final' assumption- I didn't mention the value of labor. That is your strawman.
Producers are willing to pay workers exactly as much as the consumer is willing to pay for the product - after costs, after resources, and after a fair profit for those who took the risk of investing.
No- producers are willing to pay workers as low as they can get away with- just as consumers will pay as low as they can get away with. "Fair profit"- really? What is a 'fair' profit? A producer will get as much profit- or lose as much money- as the market circumstances dictate. In a bad year, a producer may be losing money while in a good year, a producer may be raking in the dough- there is nothing 'fair' about Capitalism- the market doesn't care about 'fair'.
The wealthy have increased their wealth, that is true - but HOW have they increased their wealth? They have invested their money, and recouped a return. They bought stock, they bought insurance, they bought property ... and they have been rewarded. "Their money works for them". They have put their money to work in markets that get them the highest return. That would seem to be the eminently logical approach, don't you think?
Certainly the wealthy have 'invested' their money. Some have bought real estate and profited by the boom in rising housing prices. Some have bought stocks in existing companies- hence the stock market boom. They have put their money to work- certainly- but that doesn't automatically- as we have seen in the last 20 years- translate into a benefit for the middle class.
Investments outside the United States not only do not benefit the American middle class, they provide capital for companies to compete against the American middle class. Yes- those producers are putting their money to work- and that doesn't mean it will benefit the American middle class.
Nor am I saying that investment must benefit the middle class. That has never been my position.
My position is that Trump and the Republicans are lying to the American people by claiming that this package of tax cuts is specifically to benefit the middle class and to create jobs.
The Estate tax does not specifically do either. Yes- there may be some trickle down benefit- but you can't quantify it- nor have you even attempted to provide any facts to support your spurious position that eliminating the Estate Tax is for the benefit of the middle class.
Eliminating the Estate tax is primarily to benefit the wealthiest Americans- and one of the biggest beneficiaries to the elimination of the Estate tax would be the family of Donald Trump.
If you want to show how the middle class will benefit from the elimination of the estate tax- well provide real numbers- Middle class means singles making between $24,000 and $72,000 annually are middle class.
70% of Americans consider themselves middle class—but only 50% are
How much will a single person making $72,000 benefit from the elimination of the Estate Tax?
Trump’s Tax Plan Cuts Rates for Individuals and Corporations and Eliminates Many Deductions
“My plan is for working people and my plan is for jobs,” Mr. Trump said. “I don’t benefit. Very, very strongly I think there’s very little benefit for people of wealth.”
The Estate tax in 2017 only applies to estates of $5,490,000 or more. If Donald Trump died tomorrow Melania, as his spouse, would still not have to pay any estate taxes on Donald's supposed $10 billion dollars- because of the spousal exemption. If both of them died tomorrow- then yes- his kids would face estate taxes.
How does eliminating the estate tax benefit 'working people'? How does it generate jobs?
Provisions such as the alternative minimum tax and the estate tax, a tax on inherited wealth which Mr. Trump has derided over the years, would be gone under the Republican proposal.
How does it do anything but benefit the families of the wealthiest Americans?
Save me the arguments that the Estate tax is 'unfair'- Trump and the Republicans are claiming these tax cuts are all about generating jobs and benefiting the middle class- if you want to claim that the reason to eliminate the estate tax is because the tax is 'unfair'- then go ahead and admit that Trump and the Republicans are lying to Americans about what the tax cuts are for- and who they are supposed to benefit.
The estate tax should be zero. That you and your family can't live above the poverty level doesn't mean someone that made it should pay taxes so you can have more for nothing.
Again- 'its not fair'
Still not one Conservative who has bothered to even attempt to address the OP.
Are you okay with Trump and the Republicans lying to Americans about the intent of the tax cut?
"Fair" has nothing to do with it.
Are you OK with lying about anything related to Trump t.
Trump’s Tax Plan Cuts Rates for Individuals and Corporations and Eliminates Many Deductions
“My plan is for working people and my plan is for jobs,” Mr. Trump said. “I don’t benefit. Very, very strongly I think there’s very little benefit for people of wealth.”
The Estate tax in 2017 only applies to estates of $5,490,000 or more. If Donald Trump died tomorrow Melania, as his spouse, would still not have to pay any estate taxes on Donald's supposed $10 billion dollars- because of the spousal exemption. If both of them died tomorrow- then yes- his kids would face estate taxes.
How does eliminating the estate tax benefit 'working people'? How does it generate jobs?
Provisions such as the alternative minimum tax and the estate tax, a tax on inherited wealth which Mr. Trump has derided over the years, would be gone under the Republican proposal.
How does it do anything but benefit the families of the wealthiest Americans?
Save me the arguments that the Estate tax is 'unfair'- Trump and the Republicans are claiming these tax cuts are all about generating jobs and benefiting the middle class- if you want to claim that the reason to eliminate the estate tax is because the tax is 'unfair'- then go ahead and admit that Trump and the Republicans are lying to Americans about what the tax cuts are for- and who they are supposed to benefit.
The estate tax should be zero. That you and your family can't live above the poverty level doesn't mean someone that made it should pay taxes so you can have more for nothing.
Again- 'its not fair'
Still not one Conservative who has bothered to even attempt to address the OP.
Are you okay with Trump and the Republicans lying to Americans about the intent of the tax cut?
I will, and did, address the OP. Trump and the Republicans did not lie to Americans. That kinda shoots your whole premise in the ass, don't you think? Changing the estate tax WILL benefit middle class America. Clearly, your decidedly shallow understanding of macroeconomics keeps you from understanding how.
Syriusly is the type that if you don't give an answer he likes, he considers it as not answering.
Trump’s Tax Plan Cuts Rates for Individuals and Corporations and Eliminates Many Deductions
“My plan is for working people and my plan is for jobs,” Mr. Trump said. “I don’t benefit. Very, very strongly I think there’s very little benefit for people of wealth.”
The Estate tax in 2017 only applies to estates of $5,490,000 or more. If Donald Trump died tomorrow Melania, as his spouse, would still not have to pay any estate taxes on Donald's supposed $10 billion dollars- because of the spousal exemption. If both of them died tomorrow- then yes- his kids would face estate taxes.
How does eliminating the estate tax benefit 'working people'? How does it generate jobs?
Provisions such as the alternative minimum tax and the estate tax, a tax on inherited wealth which Mr. Trump has derided over the years, would be gone under the Republican proposal.
How does it do anything but benefit the families of the wealthiest Americans?
Save me the arguments that the Estate tax is 'unfair'- Trump and the Republicans are claiming these tax cuts are all about generating jobs and benefiting the middle class- if you want to claim that the reason to eliminate the estate tax is because the tax is 'unfair'- then go ahead and admit that Trump and the Republicans are lying to Americans about what the tax cuts are for- and who they are supposed to benefit.
The estate tax should be zero. That you and your family can't live above the poverty level doesn't mean someone that made it should pay taxes so you can have more for nothing.
Again- 'its not fair'
Still not one Conservative who has bothered to even attempt to address the OP.
Are you okay with Trump and the Republicans lying to Americans about the intent of the tax cut?
I will, and did, address the OP. Trump and the Republicans did not lie to Americans. That kinda shoots your whole premise in the ass, don't you think? Changing the estate tax WILL benefit middle class America. .
How.
Specifically.
Oh wait- like Trump- you like to make unsubstantiated claims and then run away.
Wait, you are so programmed to hear a certain answer that when you don't, you claim people didn't provide one..
Fools? Yeah, that's pretty much the truth ...(sigh)....when in hell will the GOP realize that trickle down does not work? What fuckin planet does these people live on???? The last entity in this country who needs tax relief are corporations. You can not on the one had, Trump, GOP brag about the market and how booming the highs have been, when wages haven't went up, good paying jobs have yet to materialize and job growth hasn't risen....yet, corporate america rolls trillions in profit, trickle's nothing down and we want to lower their tax rates, which few pay any fuckin way????? The only investing these companies do with these mega profits, is automate their business's and take most of their products on line, creating warehouse jobs.Trump’s Tax Plan Cuts Rates for Individuals and Corporations and Eliminates Many Deductions
“My plan is for working people and my plan is for jobs,” Mr. Trump said. “I don’t benefit. Very, very strongly I think there’s very little benefit for people of wealth.”
The Estate tax in 2017 only applies to estates of $5,490,000 or more. If Donald Trump died tomorrow Melania, as his spouse, would still not have to pay any estate taxes on Donald's supposed $10 billion dollars- because of the spousal exemption. If both of them died tomorrow- then yes- his kids would face estate taxes.
How does eliminating the estate tax benefit 'working people'? How does it generate jobs?
Provisions such as the alternative minimum tax and the estate tax, a tax on inherited wealth which Mr. Trump has derided over the years, would be gone under the Republican proposal.
How does it do anything but benefit the families of the wealthiest Americans?
Save me the arguments that the Estate tax is 'unfair'- Trump and the Republicans are claiming these tax cuts are all about generating jobs and benefiting the middle class- if you want to claim that the reason to eliminate the estate tax is because the tax is 'unfair'- then go ahead and admit that Trump and the Republicans are lying to Americans about what the tax cuts are for- and who they are supposed to benefit.
Trump, please don't play us as fools, this plan does nothing to help anybody but the rich as usual!!
Trump’s Tax Plan Cuts Rates for Individuals and Corporations and Eliminates Many Deductions
“My plan is for working people and my plan is for jobs,” Mr. Trump said. “I don’t benefit. Very, very strongly I think there’s very little benefit for people of wealth.”
The Estate tax in 2017 only applies to estates of $5,490,000 or more. If Donald Trump died tomorrow Melania, as his spouse, would still not have to pay any estate taxes on Donald's supposed $10 billion dollars- because of the spousal exemption. If both of them died tomorrow- then yes- his kids would face estate taxes.
How does eliminating the estate tax benefit 'working people'? How does it generate jobs?
Provisions such as the alternative minimum tax and the estate tax, a tax on inherited wealth which Mr. Trump has derided over the years, would be gone under the Republican proposal.
How does it do anything but benefit the families of the wealthiest Americans?
Save me the arguments that the Estate tax is 'unfair'- Trump and the Republicans are claiming these tax cuts are all about generating jobs and benefiting the middle class- if you want to claim that the reason to eliminate the estate tax is because the tax is 'unfair'- then go ahead and admit that Trump and the Republicans are lying to Americans about what the tax cuts are for- and who they are supposed to benefit.
The estate tax should be zero. That you and your family can't live above the poverty level doesn't mean someone that made it should pay taxes so you can have more for nothing.
Again- 'its not fair'
Still not one Conservative who has bothered to even attempt to address the OP.
Are you okay with Trump and the Republicans lying to Americans about the intent of the tax cut?
"Fair" has nothing to do with it.
Are you OK with lying about anything related to Trump t.
Are you okay with lying about me to defend Trump?
Still not one Conservative who has bothered to even attempt to address the OP.
Why don't you elucidate on that?Fact, the reason Clinton and OBama has such success in jobs growth...they raised taxes on the wealthy!!Same ol' BS .... "if we allow the wealthy to keep their money, it won't benefit the middle class. There will be no jobs created, there will be no companies invested in."
Y'all need to wake up to reality. Until then, a discussion based on a false strawman is an exercise in mental masturbation.
Trump’s Tax Plan Cuts Rates for Individuals and Corporations and Eliminates Many Deductions
“My plan is for working people and my plan is for jobs,” Mr. Trump said. “I don’t benefit. Very, very strongly I think there’s very little benefit for people of wealth.”
The Estate tax in 2017 only applies to estates of $5,490,000 or more. If Donald Trump died tomorrow Melania, as his spouse, would still not have to pay any estate taxes on Donald's supposed $10 billion dollars- because of the spousal exemption. If both of them died tomorrow- then yes- his kids would face estate taxes.
How does eliminating the estate tax benefit 'working people'? How does it generate jobs?
Provisions such as the alternative minimum tax and the estate tax, a tax on inherited wealth which Mr. Trump has derided over the years, would be gone under the Republican proposal.
How does it do anything but benefit the families of the wealthiest Americans?
Save me the arguments that the Estate tax is 'unfair'- Trump and the Republicans are claiming these tax cuts are all about generating jobs and benefiting the middle class- if you want to claim that the reason to eliminate the estate tax is because the tax is 'unfair'- then go ahead and admit that Trump and the Republicans are lying to Americans about what the tax cuts are for- and who they are supposed to benefit.
The estate tax should be zero. That you and your family can't live above the poverty level doesn't mean someone that made it should pay taxes so you can have more for nothing.
Again- 'its not fair'
Still not one Conservative who has bothered to even attempt to address the OP.
Are you okay with Trump and the Republicans lying to Americans about the intent of the tax cut?
I will, and did, address the OP. Trump and the Republicans did not lie to Americans. That kinda shoots your whole premise in the ass, don't you think? Changing the estate tax WILL benefit middle class America. Clearly, your decidedly shallow understanding of macroeconomics keeps you from understanding how.
Syriusly is the type that if you don't give an answer he likes, he considers it as not answering.
Conservative is the type that believes everything that Trump and the Republicans tell him- and will never question what his Dear Leader claims.
I will defend to the death your right to be deluded and wrong.Now, give me that same $100. I invest it, because I don't need a new car, a new mattress, or a new tv. That $100 is invested into a company who uses it to open a new plant in Kentucky. That $100 doesn't cycle down - it cycles UP. I build a plant, I hire people, I produce products. The value of the plant goes UP. The value of the company goes UP. The company's income goes UP. They can invest MORE money in labor, materials, and jobs. The $100 I gave you ends up back in my pocket..
You 'invest it'? Maybe you do- perhaps you buy up a vineyard in France. Perhaps you build a new plant in China.
Or perhaps you 'park' your money in offshore banks that offer higher returns on investments.
Or perhaps you buy a Greek made yacht from a broker in Majorca.
That $100.00 you have can be used in the United States- where it might benefit the middle class, or it might be used in the United States to pay for your membership to Mar A Lago- where it will help benefit the seasonal workers from Eastern Europe brought in to work at the resort. Or you could invest it in Apple stock.......
Or that $100 could be used for investments overseas- taken right out of the United States to be used to compete directly with American workers.
What you can't do is predict with any accuracy how anyone will use their inheritance windfall.
See- I can speculate as easily as you can- but I am not going to pretend my speculation is somehow proof of anything.
For the last 20 years the wealthy have been getting wealthier, and the middle class have been getting poorer. If the wealthy getting more money in their pockets translates to more jobs and more money for the middle class- why hasn't this been happening for the last 20 years?
Your final assumption (declaration?) is intrinsically false. Labor, like any other resource, is priced according to its contribution to the final product. If you are willing to pay an extra $10,000 for an American-made car, then labor has a higher value. If you are willing to pay an extra $11 for an American-made shirt, then labor has a higher value.
You seem to be under the misconception that labor is an arbitrary value - independent of all other factors. It isn't - it is directly related to the willingness of the consumer to pay a particular price for a particular product. Producers are willing to pay workers exactly as much as the consumer is willing to pay for the product - after costs, after resources, and after a fair profit for those who took the risk of investing.
Now, as to your "... wealthy have been getting wealthier, and the middle class have been getting poorer." The wealthy have increased their wealth, that is true - but HOW have they increased their wealth? They have invested their money, and recouped a return. They bought stock, they bought insurance, they bought property ... and they have been rewarded. "Their money works for them". They have put their money to work in markets that get them the highest return. That would seem to be the eminently logical approach, don't you think?
The middle class, on the other hand, has stagnated. They haven't increased their education levels or technical capabilities. They haven't been willing They somehow believe that buggy whip makers should make more money, regardless of the call of the market. They, simply, have not increased the value of the product THEY sell - their labor. "They have to work for their money."
About the rest of your post - you're right . All those things COULD happen. But, they don't. Yes, you will find some millionaire somewhere who bought a Greek yacht, but then you realize he is docking it in Miami, he is hiring people to guard it, to maintain it, to operate it. All those people are contributing to the US economy, just like all your "seasonal Eastern European workers" at Mar-a-Lago.
You need to deal in reality - not in fictional scenarios created to justify a spurious position.
"You need to deal in reality - not in fictional scenarios created to justify a spurious position"
Funny you say that- while at the same time you provide absolutely nothing to back up your justify your spurious position.
As for my 'final' assumption- I didn't mention the value of labor. That is your strawman.
Producers are willing to pay workers exactly as much as the consumer is willing to pay for the product - after costs, after resources, and after a fair profit for those who took the risk of investing.
No- producers are willing to pay workers as low as they can get away with- just as consumers will pay as low as they can get away with. "Fair profit"- really? What is a 'fair' profit? A producer will get as much profit- or lose as much money- as the market circumstances dictate. In a bad year, a producer may be losing money while in a good year, a producer may be raking in the dough- there is nothing 'fair' about Capitalism- the market doesn't care about 'fair'.
The wealthy have increased their wealth, that is true - but HOW have they increased their wealth? They have invested their money, and recouped a return. They bought stock, they bought insurance, they bought property ... and they have been rewarded. "Their money works for them". They have put their money to work in markets that get them the highest return. That would seem to be the eminently logical approach, don't you think?
Certainly the wealthy have 'invested' their money. Some have bought real estate and profited by the boom in rising housing prices. Some have bought stocks in existing companies- hence the stock market boom. They have put their money to work- certainly- but that doesn't automatically- as we have seen in the last 20 years- translate into a benefit for the middle class.
Investments outside the United States not only do not benefit the American middle class, they provide capital for companies to compete against the American middle class. Yes- those producers are putting their money to work- and that doesn't mean it will benefit the American middle class.
Nor am I saying that investment must benefit the middle class. That has never been my position.
My position is that Trump and the Republicans are lying to the American people by claiming that this package of tax cuts is specifically to benefit the middle class and to create jobs.
The Estate tax does not specifically do either. Yes- there may be some trickle down benefit- but you can't quantify it- nor have you even attempted to provide any facts to support your spurious position that eliminating the Estate Tax is for the benefit of the middle class.
Eliminating the Estate tax is primarily to benefit the wealthiest Americans- and one of the biggest beneficiaries to the elimination of the Estate tax would be the family of Donald Trump.
If you want to show how the middle class will benefit from the elimination of the estate tax- well provide real numbers- Middle class means singles making between $24,000 and $72,000 annually are middle class.
70% of Americans consider themselves middle class—but only 50% are
How much will a single person making $72,000 benefit from the elimination of the Estate Tax?
Well thank you for supporting my right to free speech.
I will defend your right to post your delusional nonsense here at USMB while at the same time pointing out that you have been completely unable to provide any evidence that eliminating the estate tax will benefit ANY American in the middle class.
But it sure will benefit Trump's heirs.
It has been addressed repeatedly, proven repeatedly, and reiterated repeatedly.Trump’s Tax Plan Cuts Rates for Individuals and Corporations and Eliminates Many Deductions
“My plan is for working people and my plan is for jobs,” Mr. Trump said. “I don’t benefit. Very, very strongly I think there’s very little benefit for people of wealth.”
The Estate tax in 2017 only applies to estates of $5,490,000 or more. If Donald Trump died tomorrow Melania, as his spouse, would still not have to pay any estate taxes on Donald's supposed $10 billion dollars- because of the spousal exemption. If both of them died tomorrow- then yes- his kids would face estate taxes.
How does eliminating the estate tax benefit 'working people'? How does it generate jobs?
Provisions such as the alternative minimum tax and the estate tax, a tax on inherited wealth which Mr. Trump has derided over the years, would be gone under the Republican proposal.
How does it do anything but benefit the families of the wealthiest Americans?
Save me the arguments that the Estate tax is 'unfair'- Trump and the Republicans are claiming these tax cuts are all about generating jobs and benefiting the middle class- if you want to claim that the reason to eliminate the estate tax is because the tax is 'unfair'- then go ahead and admit that Trump and the Republicans are lying to Americans about what the tax cuts are for- and who they are supposed to benefit.
The estate tax should be zero. That you and your family can't live above the poverty level doesn't mean someone that made it should pay taxes so you can have more for nothing.
Again- 'its not fair'
Still not one Conservative who has bothered to even attempt to address the OP.
Are you okay with Trump and the Republicans lying to Americans about the intent of the tax cut?
"Fair" has nothing to do with it.
Are you OK with lying about anything related to Trump t.
Are you okay with lying about me to defend Trump?
Still not one Conservative who has bothered to even attempt to address the OP.
It has been addressed repeatedly, proven repeatedly, and reiterated repeatedly.Trump’s Tax Plan Cuts Rates for Individuals and Corporations and Eliminates Many Deductions
“My plan is for working people and my plan is for jobs,” Mr. Trump said. “I don’t benefit. Very, very strongly I think there’s very little benefit for people of wealth.”
The Estate tax in 2017 only applies to estates of $5,490,000 or more. If Donald Trump died tomorrow Melania, as his spouse, would still not have to pay any estate taxes on Donald's supposed $10 billion dollars- because of the spousal exemption. If both of them died tomorrow- then yes- his kids would face estate taxes.
How does eliminating the estate tax benefit 'working people'? How does it generate jobs?
Provisions such as the alternative minimum tax and the estate tax, a tax on inherited wealth which Mr. Trump has derided over the years, would be gone under the Republican proposal.
How does it do anything but benefit the families of the wealthiest Americans?
Save me the arguments that the Estate tax is 'unfair'- Trump and the Republicans are claiming these tax cuts are all about generating jobs and benefiting the middle class- if you want to claim that the reason to eliminate the estate tax is because the tax is 'unfair'- then go ahead and admit that Trump and the Republicans are lying to Americans about what the tax cuts are for- and who they are supposed to benefit.
The estate tax should be zero. That you and your family can't live above the poverty level doesn't mean someone that made it should pay taxes so you can have more for nothing.
Again- 'its not fair'
Still not one Conservative who has bothered to even attempt to address the OP.
Are you okay with Trump and the Republicans lying to Americans about the intent of the tax cut?
"Fair" has nothing to do with it.
Are you OK with lying about anything related to Trump t.
Are you okay with lying about me to defend Trump?
Still not one Conservative who has bothered to even attempt to address the OP.
You simply don't like it when somebody points out that you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.
Trump’s Tax Plan Cuts Rates for Individuals and Corporations and Eliminates Many Deductions
“My plan is for working people and my plan is for jobs,” Mr. Trump said. “I don’t benefit. Very, very strongly I think there’s very little benefit for people of wealth.”
The Estate tax in 2017 only applies to estates of $5,490,000 or more. If Donald Trump died tomorrow Melania, as his spouse, would still not have to pay any estate taxes on Donald's supposed $10 billion dollars- because of the spousal exemption. If both of them died tomorrow- then yes- his kids would face estate taxes.
How does eliminating the estate tax benefit 'working people'? How does it generate jobs?
Provisions such as the alternative minimum tax and the estate tax, a tax on inherited wealth which Mr. Trump has derided over the years, would be gone under the Republican proposal.
How does it do anything but benefit the families of the wealthiest Americans?
Save me the arguments that the Estate tax is 'unfair'- Trump and the Republicans are claiming these tax cuts are all about generating jobs and benefiting the middle class- if you want to claim that the reason to eliminate the estate tax is because the tax is 'unfair'- then go ahead and admit that Trump and the Republicans are lying to Americans about what the tax cuts are for- and who they are supposed to benefit.
Taxing death isn't fair or reasonable. They have already taxed every cent you had while alive, then treat themselves to it all again when you die.
Generational farmers don't make a lot. Here they do it for the love of the farm. Before they go to work, and after they get home from work. One had to take out a loan to pay the death tax after his father died. Others have to sell off parts of land that has been in their family for several hundred years. It is ridiculous.
Trump’s Tax Plan Cuts Rates for Individuals and Corporations and Eliminates Many Deductions
“My plan is for working people and my plan is for jobs,” Mr. Trump said. “I don’t benefit. Very, very strongly I think there’s very little benefit for people of wealth.”
The Estate tax in 2017 only applies to estates of $5,490,000 or more. If Donald Trump died tomorrow Melania, as his spouse, would still not have to pay any estate taxes on Donald's supposed $10 billion dollars- because of the spousal exemption. If both of them died tomorrow- then yes- his kids would face estate taxes.
How does eliminating the estate tax benefit 'working people'? How does it generate jobs?
Provisions such as the alternative minimum tax and the estate tax, a tax on inherited wealth which Mr. Trump has derided over the years, would be gone under the Republican proposal.
How does it do anything but benefit the families of the wealthiest Americans?
Save me the arguments that the Estate tax is 'unfair'- Trump and the Republicans are claiming these tax cuts are all about generating jobs and benefiting the middle class- if you want to claim that the reason to eliminate the estate tax is because the tax is 'unfair'- then go ahead and admit that Trump and the Republicans are lying to Americans about what the tax cuts are for- and who they are supposed to benefit.
And who cares if it helps he middle class.......
Trump’s Tax Plan Cuts Rates for Individuals and Corporations and Eliminates Many Deductions
“My plan is for working people and my plan is for jobs,” Mr. Trump said. “I don’t benefit. Very, very strongly I think there’s very little benefit for people of wealth.”
The Estate tax in 2017 only applies to estates of $5,490,000 or more. If Donald Trump died tomorrow Melania, as his spouse, would still not have to pay any estate taxes on Donald's supposed $10 billion dollars- because of the spousal exemption. If both of them died tomorrow- then yes- his kids would face estate taxes.
How does eliminating the estate tax benefit 'working people'? How does it generate jobs?
Provisions such as the alternative minimum tax and the estate tax, a tax on inherited wealth which Mr. Trump has derided over the years, would be gone under the Republican proposal.
How does it do anything but benefit the families of the wealthiest Americans?
Save me the arguments that the Estate tax is 'unfair'- Trump and the Republicans are claiming these tax cuts are all about generating jobs and benefiting the middle class- if you want to claim that the reason to eliminate the estate tax is because the tax is 'unfair'- then go ahead and admit that Trump and the Republicans are lying to Americans about what the tax cuts are for- and who they are supposed to benefit.
The estate tax should be zero. That you and your family can't live above the poverty level doesn't mean someone that made it should pay taxes so you can have more for nothing.
Again- 'its not fair'
Still not one Conservative who has bothered to even attempt to address the OP.
Are you okay with Trump and the Republicans lying to Americans about the intent of the tax cut?
"Fair" has nothing to do with it.
Are you OK with lying about anything related to Trump t.
Are you okay with lying about me to defend Trump?
Still not one Conservative who has bothered to even attempt to address the OP.
I haven't lied about you. Nothing but the truth.
The estate tax should be zero. That you and your family can't live above the poverty level doesn't mean someone that made it should pay taxes so you can have more for nothing.
Again- 'its not fair'
Still not one Conservative who has bothered to even attempt to address the OP.
Are you okay with Trump and the Republicans lying to Americans about the intent of the tax cut?
I will, and did, address the OP. Trump and the Republicans did not lie to Americans. That kinda shoots your whole premise in the ass, don't you think? Changing the estate tax WILL benefit middle class America. Clearly, your decidedly shallow understanding of macroeconomics keeps you from understanding how.
Syriusly is the type that if you don't give an answer he likes, he considers it as not answering.
Conservative is the type that believes everything that Trump and the Republicans tell him- and will never question what his Dear Leader claims.
Pucker up, n-lover.
I will defend to the death your right to be deluded and wrong.You 'invest it'? Maybe you do- perhaps you buy up a vineyard in France. Perhaps you build a new plant in China.
Or perhaps you 'park' your money in offshore banks that offer higher returns on investments.
Or perhaps you buy a Greek made yacht from a broker in Majorca.
That $100.00 you have can be used in the United States- where it might benefit the middle class, or it might be used in the United States to pay for your membership to Mar A Lago- where it will help benefit the seasonal workers from Eastern Europe brought in to work at the resort. Or you could invest it in Apple stock.......
Or that $100 could be used for investments overseas- taken right out of the United States to be used to compete directly with American workers.
What you can't do is predict with any accuracy how anyone will use their inheritance windfall.
See- I can speculate as easily as you can- but I am not going to pretend my speculation is somehow proof of anything.
For the last 20 years the wealthy have been getting wealthier, and the middle class have been getting poorer. If the wealthy getting more money in their pockets translates to more jobs and more money for the middle class- why hasn't this been happening for the last 20 years?
Your final assumption (declaration?) is intrinsically false. Labor, like any other resource, is priced according to its contribution to the final product. If you are willing to pay an extra $10,000 for an American-made car, then labor has a higher value. If you are willing to pay an extra $11 for an American-made shirt, then labor has a higher value.
You seem to be under the misconception that labor is an arbitrary value - independent of all other factors. It isn't - it is directly related to the willingness of the consumer to pay a particular price for a particular product. Producers are willing to pay workers exactly as much as the consumer is willing to pay for the product - after costs, after resources, and after a fair profit for those who took the risk of investing.
Now, as to your "... wealthy have been getting wealthier, and the middle class have been getting poorer." The wealthy have increased their wealth, that is true - but HOW have they increased their wealth? They have invested their money, and recouped a return. They bought stock, they bought insurance, they bought property ... and they have been rewarded. "Their money works for them". They have put their money to work in markets that get them the highest return. That would seem to be the eminently logical approach, don't you think?
The middle class, on the other hand, has stagnated. They haven't increased their education levels or technical capabilities. They haven't been willing They somehow believe that buggy whip makers should make more money, regardless of the call of the market. They, simply, have not increased the value of the product THEY sell - their labor. "They have to work for their money."
About the rest of your post - you're right . All those things COULD happen. But, they don't. Yes, you will find some millionaire somewhere who bought a Greek yacht, but then you realize he is docking it in Miami, he is hiring people to guard it, to maintain it, to operate it. All those people are contributing to the US economy, just like all your "seasonal Eastern European workers" at Mar-a-Lago.
You need to deal in reality - not in fictional scenarios created to justify a spurious position.
"You need to deal in reality - not in fictional scenarios created to justify a spurious position"
Funny you say that- while at the same time you provide absolutely nothing to back up your justify your spurious position.
As for my 'final' assumption- I didn't mention the value of labor. That is your strawman.
Producers are willing to pay workers exactly as much as the consumer is willing to pay for the product - after costs, after resources, and after a fair profit for those who took the risk of investing.
No- producers are willing to pay workers as low as they can get away with- just as consumers will pay as low as they can get away with. "Fair profit"- really? What is a 'fair' profit? A producer will get as much profit- or lose as much money- as the market circumstances dictate. In a bad year, a producer may be losing money while in a good year, a producer may be raking in the dough- there is nothing 'fair' about Capitalism- the market doesn't care about 'fair'.
The wealthy have increased their wealth, that is true - but HOW have they increased their wealth? They have invested their money, and recouped a return. They bought stock, they bought insurance, they bought property ... and they have been rewarded. "Their money works for them". They have put their money to work in markets that get them the highest return. That would seem to be the eminently logical approach, don't you think?
Certainly the wealthy have 'invested' their money. Some have bought real estate and profited by the boom in rising housing prices. Some have bought stocks in existing companies- hence the stock market boom. They have put their money to work- certainly- but that doesn't automatically- as we have seen in the last 20 years- translate into a benefit for the middle class.
Investments outside the United States not only do not benefit the American middle class, they provide capital for companies to compete against the American middle class. Yes- those producers are putting their money to work- and that doesn't mean it will benefit the American middle class.
Nor am I saying that investment must benefit the middle class. That has never been my position.
My position is that Trump and the Republicans are lying to the American people by claiming that this package of tax cuts is specifically to benefit the middle class and to create jobs.
The Estate tax does not specifically do either. Yes- there may be some trickle down benefit- but you can't quantify it- nor have you even attempted to provide any facts to support your spurious position that eliminating the Estate Tax is for the benefit of the middle class.
Eliminating the Estate tax is primarily to benefit the wealthiest Americans- and one of the biggest beneficiaries to the elimination of the Estate tax would be the family of Donald Trump.
If you want to show how the middle class will benefit from the elimination of the estate tax- well provide real numbers- Middle class means singles making between $24,000 and $72,000 annually are middle class.
70% of Americans consider themselves middle class—but only 50% are
How much will a single person making $72,000 benefit from the elimination of the Estate Tax?
Well thank you for supporting my right to free speech.
I will defend your right to post your delusional nonsense here at USMB while at the same time pointing out that you have been completely unable to provide any evidence that eliminating the estate tax will benefit ANY American in the middle class.
But it sure will benefit Trump's heirs.
If you want to understand how it works - I suggest you start here: Economics and finance | Khan Academy.
It has been addressed repeatedly, proven repeatedly, and reiterated repeatedly.Trump’s Tax Plan Cuts Rates for Individuals and Corporations and Eliminates Many Deductions
“My plan is for working people and my plan is for jobs,” Mr. Trump said. “I don’t benefit. Very, very strongly I think there’s very little benefit for people of wealth.”
The Estate tax in 2017 only applies to estates of $5,490,000 or more. If Donald Trump died tomorrow Melania, as his spouse, would still not have to pay any estate taxes on Donald's supposed $10 billion dollars- because of the spousal exemption. If both of them died tomorrow- then yes- his kids would face estate taxes.
How does eliminating the estate tax benefit 'working people'? How does it generate jobs?
Provisions such as the alternative minimum tax and the estate tax, a tax on inherited wealth which Mr. Trump has derided over the years, would be gone under the Republican proposal.
How does it do anything but benefit the families of the wealthiest Americans?
Save me the arguments that the Estate tax is 'unfair'- Trump and the Republicans are claiming these tax cuts are all about generating jobs and benefiting the middle class- if you want to claim that the reason to eliminate the estate tax is because the tax is 'unfair'- then go ahead and admit that Trump and the Republicans are lying to Americans about what the tax cuts are for- and who they are supposed to benefit.
The estate tax should be zero. That you and your family can't live above the poverty level doesn't mean someone that made it should pay taxes so you can have more for nothing.
Again- 'its not fair'
Still not one Conservative who has bothered to even attempt to address the OP.
Are you okay with Trump and the Republicans lying to Americans about the intent of the tax cut?
"Fair" has nothing to do with it.
Are you OK with lying about anything related to Trump t.
Are you okay with lying about me to defend Trump?
Still not one Conservative who has bothered to even attempt to address the OP.
You simply don't like it when somebody points out that you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.
The estate tax should be zero. That you and your family can't live above the poverty level doesn't mean someone that made it should pay taxes so you can have more for nothing.
Again- 'its not fair'
Still not one Conservative who has bothered to even attempt to address the OP.
Are you okay with Trump and the Republicans lying to Americans about the intent of the tax cut?
"Fair" has nothing to do with it.
Are you OK with lying about anything related to Trump t.
Are you okay with lying about me to defend Trump?
Still not one Conservative who has bothered to even attempt to address the OP.
I haven't lied about you. Nothing but the truth.
Yep- you lied about me- but then again- you are as comfortable with your lies as you are with your racism.
Still not one Conservative who has bothered to even attempt to address the OP.
