How will eliminating the Estate Tax benefit the Middle class?

[Syriusly]

Trump’s Tax Plan Cuts Rates for Individuals and Corporations and Eliminates Many Deductions

“My plan is for working people and my plan is for jobs,” Mr. Trump said. “I don’t benefit. Very, very strongly I think there’s very little benefit for people of wealth.”

The Estate tax in 2017 only applies to estates of $5,490,000 or more. If Donald Trump died tomorrow Melania, as his spouse, would still not have to pay any estate taxes on Donald's supposed $10 billion dollars- because of the spousal exemption. If both of them died tomorrow- then yes- his kids would face estate taxes.

How does eliminating the estate tax benefit 'working people'? How does it generate jobs?

Provisions such as the alternative minimum tax and the estate tax, a tax on inherited wealth which Mr. Trump has derided over the years, would be gone under the Republican proposal.

How does it do anything but benefit the families of the wealthiest Americans?

Save me the arguments that the Estate tax is 'unfair'- Trump and the Republicans are claiming these tax cuts are all about generating jobs and benefiting the middle class- if you want to claim that the reason to eliminate the estate tax is because the tax is 'unfair'- then go ahead and admit that Trump and the Republicans are lying to Americans about what the tax cuts are for- and who they are supposed to benefit.

The estate tax should be zero. That you and your family can't live above the poverty level doesn't mean someone that made it should pay taxes so you can have more for nothing.

Again- 'its not fair'

Still not one Conservative who has bothered to even attempt to address the OP.

Are you okay with Trump and the Republicans lying to Americans about the intent of the tax cut?

I will, and did, address the OP. Trump and the Republicans did not lie to Americans. That kinda shoots your whole premise in the ass, don't you think? Changing the estate tax WILL benefit middle class America. .

How.

Specifically.

Oh wait- like Trump- you like to make unsubstantiated claims and then run away.

 

[K9Buck]

Trump’s Tax Plan Cuts Rates for Individuals and Corporations and Eliminates Many Deductions

“My plan is for working people and my plan is for jobs,” Mr. Trump said. “I don’t benefit. Very, very strongly I think there’s very little benefit for people of wealth.”

The Estate tax in 2017 only applies to estates of $5,490,000 or more. If Donald Trump died tomorrow Melania, as his spouse, would still not have to pay any estate taxes on Donald's supposed $10 billion dollars- because of the spousal exemption. If both of them died tomorrow- then yes- his kids would face estate taxes.

How does eliminating the estate tax benefit 'working people'? How does it generate jobs?

Provisions such as the alternative minimum tax and the estate tax, a tax on inherited wealth which Mr. Trump has derided over the years, would be gone under the Republican proposal.

How does it do anything but benefit the families of the wealthiest Americans?

Save me the arguments that the Estate tax is 'unfair'- Trump and the Republicans are claiming these tax cuts are all about generating jobs and benefiting the middle class- if you want to claim that the reason to eliminate the estate tax is because the tax is 'unfair'- then go ahead and admit that Trump and the Republicans are lying to Americans about what the tax cuts are for- and who they are supposed to benefit.

I think the government should take 110% of the deceased's estate so that we can give it to foreign illegals because I'm a liberal and I put Americans last!

 

[K9Buck]

Taxing death isn't fair or reasonable. They have already taxed every cent you had while alive, then treat themselves to it all again when you die.
Generational farmers don't make a lot. Here they do it for the love of the farm. Before they go to work, and after they get home from work. One had to take out a loan to pay the death tax after his father died. Others have to sell off parts of land that has been in their family for several hundred years. It is ridiculous.

He's a communist. Everything belongs to the fucking government, even your soul.

 

[Spare_change]

Same ol' BS .... "if we allow the wealthy to keep their money, it won't benefit the middle class. There will be no jobs created, there will be no companies invested in."

Y'all need to wake up to reality. Until then, a discussion based on a false strawman is an exercise in mental masturbation.

Wow- talk about a strawman.

Trump and theRepublicans are proposing this tax cut stating specifically it is to benefit the middle class and to create jobs.

Are you agreeing that the Republicans and Trump are lying to Americans as to their stated reason for the tax cut?

Nope - I agree with Trump.

My point was the amazingly silly idea that taxes saved by the rich will NOT result in increased opportunities for the middle class is, in a word, uninformed .

Well then inform us. Tell us how this will directly benefit the middle class.

Oooh ---- you're stepping into uncharted territory, aren't you? I will use small words since, apparently, this is a new concept to you.

It goes like this .... (in this scenario, you are middle class, and I am part of the 1%)

If I gave you a hundred dollars, you would spend it. You would use it to buy a new mattress, a new car, a new tv. Each of those dollars is consumed - it pays a worker to make your tv, it pays a truck driver to ship the mattress. That dollar, in turn, is spent - the truck driver buys food, the worker buys new shoes. But here's what you seem to fail to understand.

Every dollar is consumed. There is a point at which the economic recycling of that dollar becomes so small that it generates nothing. Every dollar spent in the economic cycle is lessened as it goes into its next cycle. For example, the $100 I gave you generates $30 worth of labor for somebody to produce products you consume. That $30 generates $9 of labor to produce the products for the next tier, $3 for the tier after that, $1 for the tier after that, and $0.30 for the tier after that.

Now, give me that same $100. I invest it, because I don't need a new car, a new mattress, or a new tv. That $100 is invested into a company who uses it to open a new plant in Kentucky. That $100 doesn't cycle down - it cycles UP. I build a plant, I hire people, I produce products. The value of the plant goes UP. The value of the company goes UP. The company's income goes UP. They can invest MORE money in labor, materials, and jobs. The $100 I gave you ends up back in my pocket.

The current liberal narrative has so dumbed down the process that some people actually believe that giving a tax break to a rich person means it ends up in his checking account, never to be used again. They believe that it is somehow removed from the economic cycle, never to used for anybody's benefit. Or, maybe it's used to buy a new yacht, a new Rolls, or a new mansion. It might be spent, but i can guarantee one thing - it isn't stuck in a bank account somewhere getting moldy.

The simple fact is this - the middle class works for its money, and the wealthy makes their money work for them. There is a tipping point at which you no longer have to work to survive, you only have to put your money to work for you. The goal of the middle class shouldn't be to see how much they can get for nothing - their goal should be to reach that magic tipping point.

You (the collective middle class) don't work for everything you get - you depend on the tax income from the wealthy to build your bridges, pave your highways, pay for your medical care, etc. You get something for nothing - and yet, you want to take MORE from those who give you that something. How does that make any sense to you at all? How can you look at yourself in the mirror each morning, and say "Well, it's another day of living off someone else." It makes no sense to me at all.

 

[Syriusly]

Trump’s Tax Plan Cuts Rates for Individuals and Corporations and Eliminates Many Deductions

“My plan is for working people and my plan is for jobs,” Mr. Trump said. “I don’t benefit. Very, very strongly I think there’s very little benefit for people of wealth.”

The Estate tax in 2017 only applies to estates of $5,490,000 or more. If Donald Trump died tomorrow Melania, as his spouse, would still not have to pay any estate taxes on Donald's supposed $10 billion dollars- because of the spousal exemption. If both of them died tomorrow- then yes- his kids would face estate taxes.

How does eliminating the estate tax benefit 'working people'? How does it generate jobs?

Provisions such as the alternative minimum tax and the estate tax, a tax on inherited wealth which Mr. Trump has derided over the years, would be gone under the Republican proposal.

How does it do anything but benefit the families of the wealthiest Americans?

Save me the arguments that the Estate tax is 'unfair'- Trump and the Republicans are claiming these tax cuts are all about generating jobs and benefiting the middle class- if you want to claim that the reason to eliminate the estate tax is because the tax is 'unfair'- then go ahead and admit that Trump and the Republicans are lying to Americans about what the tax cuts are for- and who they are supposed to benefit.

I think the government should take 110% of the deceased's estate so that we can give it to foreign illegals because I'm a liberal and I put Americans last!

Finally- you post what you really believe.

 

[Syriusly]

Taxing death isn't fair or reasonable. They have already taxed every cent you had while alive, then treat themselves to it all again when you die.
Generational farmers don't make a lot. Here they do it for the love of the farm. Before they go to work, and after they get home from work. One had to take out a loan to pay the death tax after his father died. Others have to sell off parts of land that has been in their family for several hundred years. It is ridiculous.

He's a communist. Everything belongs to the fucking government, even your soul.

Poor little contard- anyone to you is a communist who dares call Trump on his lies.

 

[Syriusly]

Same ol' BS .... "if we allow the wealthy to keep their money, it won't benefit the middle class. There will be no jobs created, there will be no companies invested in."

Y'all need to wake up to reality. Until then, a discussion based on a false strawman is an exercise in mental masturbation.

Wow- talk about a strawman.

Trump and theRepublicans are proposing this tax cut stating specifically it is to benefit the middle class and to create jobs.

Are you agreeing that the Republicans and Trump are lying to Americans as to their stated reason for the tax cut?

Nope - I agree with Trump.

My point was the amazingly silly idea that taxes saved by the rich will NOT result in increased opportunities for the middle class is, in a word, uninformed .

Well then inform us. Tell us how this will directly benefit the middle class.

Oooh ---- you're stepping into uncharted territory, aren't you? I will use small words since, apparently, this is a new concept to you..

Hardly- I can see that you are unused to being asked to explain you unsubstantiated assertions- so I do find your posts amusing.

 

[Spare_change]

Trump’s Tax Plan Cuts Rates for Individuals and Corporations and Eliminates Many Deductions

“My plan is for working people and my plan is for jobs,” Mr. Trump said. “I don’t benefit. Very, very strongly I think there’s very little benefit for people of wealth.”

The Estate tax in 2017 only applies to estates of $5,490,000 or more. If Donald Trump died tomorrow Melania, as his spouse, would still not have to pay any estate taxes on Donald's supposed $10 billion dollars- because of the spousal exemption. If both of them died tomorrow- then yes- his kids would face estate taxes.

How does eliminating the estate tax benefit 'working people'? How does it generate jobs?

Provisions such as the alternative minimum tax and the estate tax, a tax on inherited wealth which Mr. Trump has derided over the years, would be gone under the Republican proposal.

How does it do anything but benefit the families of the wealthiest Americans?

Save me the arguments that the Estate tax is 'unfair'- Trump and the Republicans are claiming these tax cuts are all about generating jobs and benefiting the middle class- if you want to claim that the reason to eliminate the estate tax is because the tax is 'unfair'- then go ahead and admit that Trump and the Republicans are lying to Americans about what the tax cuts are for- and who they are supposed to benefit.

I think the government should take 110% of the deceased's estate so that we can give it to foreign illegals because I'm a liberal and I put Americans last!

Finally- you post what you really believe.

LOL ---- Oh, sarcasm, thou art a lost skill.

 

[Spare_change]

Same ol' BS .... "if we allow the wealthy to keep their money, it won't benefit the middle class. There will be no jobs created, there will be no companies invested in."

Y'all need to wake up to reality. Until then, a discussion based on a false strawman is an exercise in mental masturbation.

Wow- talk about a strawman.

Trump and theRepublicans are proposing this tax cut stating specifically it is to benefit the middle class and to create jobs.

Are you agreeing that the Republicans and Trump are lying to Americans as to their stated reason for the tax cut?

Nope - I agree with Trump.

My point was the amazingly silly idea that taxes saved by the rich will NOT result in increased opportunities for the middle class is, in a word, uninformed .

Well then inform us. Tell us how this will directly benefit the middle class.

Oooh ---- you're stepping into uncharted territory, aren't you? I will use small words since, apparently, this is a new concept to you..

Hardly- I can see that you are unused to being asked to explain you unsubstantiated assertions- so I do find your posts amusing.

I rest my case -

My dad was right - never argue with idiots, they will drag you down to their level, and beat you with experience. I truly wish, in your case, that I had listened.

 

[Syriusly]

Same ol' BS .... "if we allow the wealthy to keep their money, it won't benefit the middle class. There will be no jobs created, there will be no companies invested in."

Y'all need to wake up to reality. Until then, a discussion based on a false strawman is an exercise in mental masturbation.

Wow- talk about a strawman.

Trump and theRepublicans are proposing this tax cut stating specifically it is to benefit the middle class and to create jobs.

Are you agreeing that the Republicans and Trump are lying to Americans as to their stated reason for the tax cut?

Nope - I agree with Trump.

My point was the amazingly silly idea that taxes saved by the rich will NOT result in increased opportunities for the middle class is, in a word, uninformed .

Well then inform us. Tell us how this will directly benefit the middle class.

Now, give me that same $100. I invest it, because I don't need a new car, a new mattress, or a new tv. That $100 is invested into a company who uses it to open a new plant in Kentucky. That $100 doesn't cycle down - it cycles UP. I build a plant, I hire people, I produce products. The value of the plant goes UP. The value of the company goes UP. The company's income goes UP. They can invest MORE money in labor, materials, and jobs. The $100 I gave you ends up back in my pocket..

You 'invest it'? Maybe you do- perhaps you buy up a vineyard in France. Perhaps you build a new plant in China.

Or perhaps you 'park' your money in offshore banks that offer higher returns on investments.

Or perhaps you buy a Greek made yacht from a broker in Majorca.

That $100.00 you have can be used in the United States- where it might benefit the middle class, or it might be used in the United States to pay for your membership to Mar A Lago- where it will help benefit the seasonal workers from Eastern Europe brought in to work at the resort. Or you could invest it in Apple stock.......

Or that $100 could be used for investments overseas- taken right out of the United States to be used to compete directly with American workers.

What you can't do is predict with any accuracy how anyone will use their inheritance windfall.

See- I can speculate as easily as you can- but I am not going to pretend my speculation is somehow proof of anything.

For the last 20 years the wealthy have been getting wealthier, and the middle class have been getting poorer. If the wealthy getting more money in their pockets translates to more jobs and more money for the middle class- why hasn't this been happening for the last 20 years?

 

[Syriusly]

Wow- talk about a strawman.

Trump and theRepublicans are proposing this tax cut stating specifically it is to benefit the middle class and to create jobs.

Are you agreeing that the Republicans and Trump are lying to Americans as to their stated reason for the tax cut?

Nope - I agree with Trump.

My point was the amazingly silly idea that taxes saved by the rich will NOT result in increased opportunities for the middle class is, in a word, uninformed .

Well then inform us. Tell us how this will directly benefit the middle class.

Oooh ---- you're stepping into uncharted territory, aren't you? I will use small words since, apparently, this is a new concept to you..

Hardly- I can see that you are unused to being asked to explain you unsubstantiated assertions- so I do find your posts amusing.

I rest my case -.

You pretty much gave up from your first post.

 

[Spare_change]

Same ol' BS .... "if we allow the wealthy to keep their money, it won't benefit the middle class. There will be no jobs created, there will be no companies invested in."

Y'all need to wake up to reality. Until then, a discussion based on a false strawman is an exercise in mental masturbation.

Wow- talk about a strawman.

Trump and theRepublicans are proposing this tax cut stating specifically it is to benefit the middle class and to create jobs.

Are you agreeing that the Republicans and Trump are lying to Americans as to their stated reason for the tax cut?

Nope - I agree with Trump.

My point was the amazingly silly idea that taxes saved by the rich will NOT result in increased opportunities for the middle class is, in a word, uninformed .

Well then inform us. Tell us how this will directly benefit the middle class.

Now, give me that same $100. I invest it, because I don't need a new car, a new mattress, or a new tv. That $100 is invested into a company who uses it to open a new plant in Kentucky. That $100 doesn't cycle down - it cycles UP. I build a plant, I hire people, I produce products. The value of the plant goes UP. The value of the company goes UP. The company's income goes UP. They can invest MORE money in labor, materials, and jobs. The $100 I gave you ends up back in my pocket..

You 'invest it'? Maybe you do- perhaps you buy up a vineyard in France. Perhaps you build a new plant in China.

Or perhaps you 'park' your money in offshore banks that offer higher returns on investments.

Or perhaps you buy a Greek made yacht from a broker in Majorca.

That $100.00 you have can be used in the United States- where it might benefit the middle class, or it might be used in the United States to pay for your membership to Mar A Lago- where it will help benefit the seasonal workers from Eastern Europe brought in to work at the resort. Or you could invest it in Apple stock.......

Or that $100 could be used for investments overseas- taken right out of the United States to be used to compete directly with American workers.

What you can't do is predict with any accuracy how anyone will use their inheritance windfall.

See- I can speculate as easily as you can- but I am not going to pretend my speculation is somehow proof of anything.

For the last 20 years the wealthy have been getting wealthier, and the middle class have been getting poorer. If the wealthy getting more money in their pockets translates to more jobs and more money for the middle class- why hasn't this been happening for the last 20 years?

Your final assumption (declaration?) is intrinsically false. Labor, like any other resource, is priced according to its contribution to the final product. If you are willing to pay an extra $10,000 for an American-made car, then labor has a higher value. If you are willing to pay an extra $11 for an American-made shirt, then labor has a higher value.

You seem to be under the misconception that labor is an arbitrary value - independent of all other factors. It isn't - it is directly related to the willingness of the consumer to pay a particular price for a particular product. Producers are willing to pay workers exactly as much as the consumer is willing to pay for the product - after costs, after resources, and after a fair profit for those who took the risk of investing.

Now, as to your "... wealthy have been getting wealthier, and the middle class have been getting poorer." The wealthy have increased their wealth, that is true - but HOW have they increased their wealth? They have invested their money, and recouped a return. They bought stock, they bought insurance, they bought property ... and they have been rewarded. "Their money works for them". They have put their money to work in markets that get them the highest return. That would seem to be the eminently logical approach, don't you think?

The middle class, on the other hand, has stagnated. They haven't increased their education levels or technical capabilities. They haven't been willing They somehow believe that buggy whip makers should make more money, regardless of the call of the market. They, simply, have not increased the value of the product THEY sell - their labor. "They have to work for their money."

About the rest of your post - you're right . All those things COULD happen. But, they don't. Yes, you will find some millionaire somewhere who bought a Greek yacht, but then you realize he is docking it in Miami, he is hiring people to guard it, to maintain it, to operate it. All those people are contributing to the US economy, just like all your "seasonal Eastern European workers" at Mar-a-Lago.

You need to deal in reality - not in fictional scenarios created to justify a spurious position.

 

[Syriusly]

Wow- talk about a strawman.

Trump and theRepublicans are proposing this tax cut stating specifically it is to benefit the middle class and to create jobs.

Are you agreeing that the Republicans and Trump are lying to Americans as to their stated reason for the tax cut?

Nope - I agree with Trump.

My point was the amazingly silly idea that taxes saved by the rich will NOT result in increased opportunities for the middle class is, in a word, uninformed .

Well then inform us. Tell us how this will directly benefit the middle class.

Now, give me that same $100. I invest it, because I don't need a new car, a new mattress, or a new tv. That $100 is invested into a company who uses it to open a new plant in Kentucky. That $100 doesn't cycle down - it cycles UP. I build a plant, I hire people, I produce products. The value of the plant goes UP. The value of the company goes UP. The company's income goes UP. They can invest MORE money in labor, materials, and jobs. The $100 I gave you ends up back in my pocket..

You 'invest it'? Maybe you do- perhaps you buy up a vineyard in France. Perhaps you build a new plant in China.

Or perhaps you 'park' your money in offshore banks that offer higher returns on investments.

Or perhaps you buy a Greek made yacht from a broker in Majorca.

That $100.00 you have can be used in the United States- where it might benefit the middle class, or it might be used in the United States to pay for your membership to Mar A Lago- where it will help benefit the seasonal workers from Eastern Europe brought in to work at the resort. Or you could invest it in Apple stock.......

Or that $100 could be used for investments overseas- taken right out of the United States to be used to compete directly with American workers.

What you can't do is predict with any accuracy how anyone will use their inheritance windfall.

See- I can speculate as easily as you can- but I am not going to pretend my speculation is somehow proof of anything.

For the last 20 years the wealthy have been getting wealthier, and the middle class have been getting poorer. If the wealthy getting more money in their pockets translates to more jobs and more money for the middle class- why hasn't this been happening for the last 20 years?

Your final assumption (declaration?) is intrinsically false. Labor, like any other resource, is priced according to its contribution to the final product. If you are willing to pay an extra $10,000 for an American-made car, then labor has a higher value. If you are willing to pay an extra $11 for an American-made shirt, then labor has a higher value.

You seem to be under the misconception that labor is an arbitrary value - independent of all other factors. It isn't - it is directly related to the willingness of the consumer to pay a particular price for a particular product. Producers are willing to pay workers exactly as much as the consumer is willing to pay for the product - after costs, after resources, and after a fair profit for those who took the risk of investing.

Now, as to your "... wealthy have been getting wealthier, and the middle class have been getting poorer." The wealthy have increased their wealth, that is true - but HOW have they increased their wealth? They have invested their money, and recouped a return. They bought stock, they bought insurance, they bought property ... and they have been rewarded. "Their money works for them". They have put their money to work in markets that get them the highest return. That would seem to be the eminently logical approach, don't you think?

The middle class, on the other hand, has stagnated. They haven't increased their education levels or technical capabilities. They haven't been willing They somehow believe that buggy whip makers should make more money, regardless of the call of the market. They, simply, have not increased the value of the product THEY sell - their labor. "They have to work for their money."

About the rest of your post - you're right . All those things COULD happen. But, they don't. Yes, you will find some millionaire somewhere who bought a Greek yacht, but then you realize he is docking it in Miami, he is hiring people to guard it, to maintain it, to operate it. All those people are contributing to the US economy, just like all your "seasonal Eastern European workers" at Mar-a-Lago.

You need to deal in reality - not in fictional scenarios created to justify a spurious position.

"You need to deal in reality - not in fictional scenarios created to justify a spurious position"

Funny you say that- while at the same time you provide absolutely nothing to back up your justify your spurious position.

As for my 'final' assumption- I didn't mention the value of labor. That is your strawman.

Producers are willing to pay workers exactly as much as the consumer is willing to pay for the product - after costs, after resources, and after a fair profit for those who took the risk of investing.

No- producers are willing to pay workers as low as they can get away with- just as consumers will pay as low as they can get away with. "Fair profit"- really? What is a 'fair' profit? A producer will get as much profit- or lose as much money- as the market circumstances dictate. In a bad year, a producer may be losing money while in a good year, a producer may be raking in the dough- there is nothing 'fair' about Capitalism- the market doesn't care about 'fair'.


The wealthy have increased their wealth, that is true - but HOW have they increased their wealth? They have invested their money, and recouped a return. They bought stock, they bought insurance, they bought property ... and they have been rewarded. "Their money works for them". They have put their money to work in markets that get them the highest return. That would seem to be the eminently logical approach, don't you think?

Certainly the wealthy have 'invested' their money. Some have bought real estate and profited by the boom in rising housing prices. Some have bought stocks in existing companies- hence the stock market boom. They have put their money to work- certainly- but that doesn't automatically- as we have seen in the last 20 years- translate into a benefit for the middle class.

Investments outside the United States not only do not benefit the American middle class, they provide capital for companies to compete against the American middle class. Yes- those producers are putting their money to work- and that doesn't mean it will benefit the American middle class.

Nor am I saying that investment must benefit the middle class. That has never been my position.

My position is that Trump and the Republicans are lying to the American people by claiming that this package of tax cuts is specifically to benefit the middle class and to create jobs.

The Estate tax does not specifically do either. Yes- there may be some trickle down benefit- but you can't quantify it- nor have you even attempted to provide any facts to support your spurious position that eliminating the Estate Tax is for the benefit of the middle class.

Eliminating the Estate tax is primarily to benefit the wealthiest Americans- and one of the biggest beneficiaries to the elimination of the Estate tax would be the family of Donald Trump.

If you want to show how the middle class will benefit from the elimination of the estate tax- well provide real numbers- Middle class means singles making between $24,000 and $72,000 annually are middle class.

70% of Americans consider themselves middle class—but only 50% are

How much will a single person making $72,000 benefit from the elimination of the Estate Tax?

 

[Spare_change]

Nope - I agree with Trump.

My point was the amazingly silly idea that taxes saved by the rich will NOT result in increased opportunities for the middle class is, in a word, uninformed .

Well then inform us. Tell us how this will directly benefit the middle class.

Now, give me that same $100. I invest it, because I don't need a new car, a new mattress, or a new tv. That $100 is invested into a company who uses it to open a new plant in Kentucky. That $100 doesn't cycle down - it cycles UP. I build a plant, I hire people, I produce products. The value of the plant goes UP. The value of the company goes UP. The company's income goes UP. They can invest MORE money in labor, materials, and jobs. The $100 I gave you ends up back in my pocket..

You 'invest it'? Maybe you do- perhaps you buy up a vineyard in France. Perhaps you build a new plant in China.

Or perhaps you 'park' your money in offshore banks that offer higher returns on investments.

Or perhaps you buy a Greek made yacht from a broker in Majorca.

That $100.00 you have can be used in the United States- where it might benefit the middle class, or it might be used in the United States to pay for your membership to Mar A Lago- where it will help benefit the seasonal workers from Eastern Europe brought in to work at the resort. Or you could invest it in Apple stock.......

Or that $100 could be used for investments overseas- taken right out of the United States to be used to compete directly with American workers.

What you can't do is predict with any accuracy how anyone will use their inheritance windfall.

See- I can speculate as easily as you can- but I am not going to pretend my speculation is somehow proof of anything.

For the last 20 years the wealthy have been getting wealthier, and the middle class have been getting poorer. If the wealthy getting more money in their pockets translates to more jobs and more money for the middle class- why hasn't this been happening for the last 20 years?

Your final assumption (declaration?) is intrinsically false. Labor, like any other resource, is priced according to its contribution to the final product. If you are willing to pay an extra $10,000 for an American-made car, then labor has a higher value. If you are willing to pay an extra $11 for an American-made shirt, then labor has a higher value.

You seem to be under the misconception that labor is an arbitrary value - independent of all other factors. It isn't - it is directly related to the willingness of the consumer to pay a particular price for a particular product. Producers are willing to pay workers exactly as much as the consumer is willing to pay for the product - after costs, after resources, and after a fair profit for those who took the risk of investing.

Now, as to your "... wealthy have been getting wealthier, and the middle class have been getting poorer." The wealthy have increased their wealth, that is true - but HOW have they increased their wealth? They have invested their money, and recouped a return. They bought stock, they bought insurance, they bought property ... and they have been rewarded. "Their money works for them". They have put their money to work in markets that get them the highest return. That would seem to be the eminently logical approach, don't you think?

The middle class, on the other hand, has stagnated. They haven't increased their education levels or technical capabilities. They haven't been willing They somehow believe that buggy whip makers should make more money, regardless of the call of the market. They, simply, have not increased the value of the product THEY sell - their labor. "They have to work for their money."

About the rest of your post - you're right . All those things COULD happen. But, they don't. Yes, you will find some millionaire somewhere who bought a Greek yacht, but then you realize he is docking it in Miami, he is hiring people to guard it, to maintain it, to operate it. All those people are contributing to the US economy, just like all your "seasonal Eastern European workers" at Mar-a-Lago.

You need to deal in reality - not in fictional scenarios created to justify a spurious position.

"You need to deal in reality - not in fictional scenarios created to justify a spurious position"

Funny you say that- while at the same time you provide absolutely nothing to back up your justify your spurious position.

As for my 'final' assumption- I didn't mention the value of labor. That is your strawman.

Producers are willing to pay workers exactly as much as the consumer is willing to pay for the product - after costs, after resources, and after a fair profit for those who took the risk of investing.

No- producers are willing to pay workers as low as they can get away with- just as consumers will pay as low as they can get away with. "Fair profit"- really? What is a 'fair' profit? A producer will get as much profit- or lose as much money- as the market circumstances dictate. In a bad year, a producer may be losing money while in a good year, a producer may be raking in the dough- there is nothing 'fair' about Capitalism- the market doesn't care about 'fair'.


The wealthy have increased their wealth, that is true - but HOW have they increased their wealth? They have invested their money, and recouped a return. They bought stock, they bought insurance, they bought property ... and they have been rewarded. "Their money works for them". They have put their money to work in markets that get them the highest return. That would seem to be the eminently logical approach, don't you think?

Certainly the wealthy have 'invested' their money. Some have bought real estate and profited by the boom in rising housing prices. Some have bought stocks in existing companies- hence the stock market boom. They have put their money to work- certainly- but that doesn't automatically- as we have seen in the last 20 years- translate into a benefit for the middle class.

Investments outside the United States not only do not benefit the American middle class, they provide capital for companies to compete against the American middle class. Yes- those producers are putting their money to work- and that doesn't mean it will benefit the American middle class.

Nor am I saying that investment must benefit the middle class. That has never been my position.

My position is that Trump and the Republicans are lying to the American people by claiming that this package of tax cuts is specifically to benefit the middle class and to create jobs.

The Estate tax does not specifically do either. Yes- there may be some trickle down benefit- but you can't quantify it- nor have you even attempted to provide any facts to support your spurious position that eliminating the Estate Tax is for the benefit of the middle class.

Eliminating the Estate tax is primarily to benefit the wealthiest Americans- and one of the biggest beneficiaries to the elimination of the Estate tax would be the family of Donald Trump.

If you want to show how the middle class will benefit from the elimination of the estate tax- well provide real numbers- Middle class means singles making between $24,000 and $72,000 annually are middle class.

70% of Americans consider themselves middle class—but only 50% are

How much will a single person making $72,000 benefit from the elimination of the Estate Tax?

I will defend to the death your right to be deluded and wrong.

 

[Conservative65]

Trump’s Tax Plan Cuts Rates for Individuals and Corporations and Eliminates Many Deductions

“My plan is for working people and my plan is for jobs,” Mr. Trump said. “I don’t benefit. Very, very strongly I think there’s very little benefit for people of wealth.”

The Estate tax in 2017 only applies to estates of $5,490,000 or more. If Donald Trump died tomorrow Melania, as his spouse, would still not have to pay any estate taxes on Donald's supposed $10 billion dollars- because of the spousal exemption. If both of them died tomorrow- then yes- his kids would face estate taxes.

How does eliminating the estate tax benefit 'working people'? How does it generate jobs?

Provisions such as the alternative minimum tax and the estate tax, a tax on inherited wealth which Mr. Trump has derided over the years, would be gone under the Republican proposal.

How does it do anything but benefit the families of the wealthiest Americans?

Save me the arguments that the Estate tax is 'unfair'- Trump and the Republicans are claiming these tax cuts are all about generating jobs and benefiting the middle class- if you want to claim that the reason to eliminate the estate tax is because the tax is 'unfair'- then go ahead and admit that Trump and the Republicans are lying to Americans about what the tax cuts are for- and who they are supposed to benefit.

The estate tax should be zero. That you and your family can't live above the poverty level doesn't mean someone that made it should pay taxes so you can have more for nothing.

Again- 'its not fair'

Still not one Conservative who has bothered to even attempt to address the OP.

Are you okay with Trump and the Republicans lying to Americans about the intent of the tax cut?

"Fair" has nothing to do with it.

Are you OK with lying about anything related to Trump because you can't stand that your bitch lost.

 

[Conservative65]

Trump’s Tax Plan Cuts Rates for Individuals and Corporations and Eliminates Many Deductions

“My plan is for working people and my plan is for jobs,” Mr. Trump said. “I don’t benefit. Very, very strongly I think there’s very little benefit for people of wealth.”

The Estate tax in 2017 only applies to estates of $5,490,000 or more. If Donald Trump died tomorrow Melania, as his spouse, would still not have to pay any estate taxes on Donald's supposed $10 billion dollars- because of the spousal exemption. If both of them died tomorrow- then yes- his kids would face estate taxes.

How does eliminating the estate tax benefit 'working people'? How does it generate jobs?

Provisions such as the alternative minimum tax and the estate tax, a tax on inherited wealth which Mr. Trump has derided over the years, would be gone under the Republican proposal.

How does it do anything but benefit the families of the wealthiest Americans?

Save me the arguments that the Estate tax is 'unfair'- Trump and the Republicans are claiming these tax cuts are all about generating jobs and benefiting the middle class- if you want to claim that the reason to eliminate the estate tax is because the tax is 'unfair'- then go ahead and admit that Trump and the Republicans are lying to Americans about what the tax cuts are for- and who they are supposed to benefit.

The estate tax should be zero. That you and your family can't live above the poverty level doesn't mean someone that made it should pay taxes so you can have more for nothing.

Again- 'its not fair'

Still not one Conservative who has bothered to even attempt to address the OP.

Are you okay with Trump and the Republicans lying to Americans about the intent of the tax cut?

I will, and did, address the OP. Trump and the Republicans did not lie to Americans. That kinda shoots your whole premise in the ass, don't you think? Changing the estate tax WILL benefit middle class America. Clearly, your decidedly shallow understanding of macroeconomics keeps you from understanding how.

Syriusly is the type that if you don't give an answer he likes, he considers it as not answering.

 

[Conservative65]

Trump’s Tax Plan Cuts Rates for Individuals and Corporations and Eliminates Many Deductions

“My plan is for working people and my plan is for jobs,” Mr. Trump said. “I don’t benefit. Very, very strongly I think there’s very little benefit for people of wealth.”

The Estate tax in 2017 only applies to estates of $5,490,000 or more. If Donald Trump died tomorrow Melania, as his spouse, would still not have to pay any estate taxes on Donald's supposed $10 billion dollars- because of the spousal exemption. If both of them died tomorrow- then yes- his kids would face estate taxes.

How does eliminating the estate tax benefit 'working people'? How does it generate jobs?

Provisions such as the alternative minimum tax and the estate tax, a tax on inherited wealth which Mr. Trump has derided over the years, would be gone under the Republican proposal.

How does it do anything but benefit the families of the wealthiest Americans?

Save me the arguments that the Estate tax is 'unfair'- Trump and the Republicans are claiming these tax cuts are all about generating jobs and benefiting the middle class- if you want to claim that the reason to eliminate the estate tax is because the tax is 'unfair'- then go ahead and admit that Trump and the Republicans are lying to Americans about what the tax cuts are for- and who they are supposed to benefit.

The estate tax should be zero. That you and your family can't live above the poverty level doesn't mean someone that made it should pay taxes so you can have more for nothing.

Again- 'its not fair'

Still not one Conservative who has bothered to even attempt to address the OP.

Are you okay with Trump and the Republicans lying to Americans about the intent of the tax cut?

I will, and did, address the OP. Trump and the Republicans did not lie to Americans. That kinda shoots your whole premise in the ass, don't you think? Changing the estate tax WILL benefit middle class America. .

How.

Specifically.

Oh wait- like Trump- you like to make unsubstantiated claims and then run away.

Wait, you are so programmed to hear a certain answer that when you don't, you claim people didn't provide one.

Pucker up, NL. Think for yourself instead of the way your BOY programmed you to think.

 

[tigerred59]

Trump’s Tax Plan Cuts Rates for Individuals and Corporations and Eliminates Many Deductions

“My plan is for working people and my plan is for jobs,” Mr. Trump said. “I don’t benefit. Very, very strongly I think there’s very little benefit for people of wealth.”

The Estate tax in 2017 only applies to estates of $5,490,000 or more. If Donald Trump died tomorrow Melania, as his spouse, would still not have to pay any estate taxes on Donald's supposed $10 billion dollars- because of the spousal exemption. If both of them died tomorrow- then yes- his kids would face estate taxes.

How does eliminating the estate tax benefit 'working people'? How does it generate jobs?

Provisions such as the alternative minimum tax and the estate tax, a tax on inherited wealth which Mr. Trump has derided over the years, would be gone under the Republican proposal.

How does it do anything but benefit the families of the wealthiest Americans?

Save me the arguments that the Estate tax is 'unfair'- Trump and the Republicans are claiming these tax cuts are all about generating jobs and benefiting the middle class- if you want to claim that the reason to eliminate the estate tax is because the tax is 'unfair'- then go ahead and admit that Trump and the Republicans are lying to Americans about what the tax cuts are for- and who they are supposed to benefit.

(sigh)....when in hell will the GOP realize that trickle down does not work? What fuckin planet does these people live on???? The last entity in this country who needs tax relief are corporations. You can not on the one had, Trump, GOP brag about the market and how booming the highs have been, when wages haven't went up, good paying jobs have yet to materialize and job growth hasn't risen....yet, corporate america rolls trillions in profit, trickle's nothing down and we want to lower their tax rates, which few pay any fuckin way????? The only investing these companies do with these mega profits, is automate their business's and take most of their products on line, creating warehouse jobs.

Trump, please don't play us as fools, this plan does nothing to help anybody but the rich as usual!!

 

[tigerred59]

It doesnt create jobs lol
I wonder how kids with not a lot of money pay for their families estate?

The estate pays the tax.

So lets say your mommy and daddy are worth $10 million dollars- and both die in a tragic automobile accident.

You inherit all $10 million dollars free and clear- because the joint exemption for your parents wealth is $10.98 million

Now if your parents are worth $20 million- their estate will have to pay estate taxes on approximately $9 million- and you will get the $11 million + plus the balance of the $9 million after taxes.

How will eliminating that tax create jobs or help the middle class- both which the Republicans and Trump have said this tax change is intended to do?

All this does is help the Trump brats...when daddy dies from clogged arteries and toxic hair dye poisoning.

 

[tigerred59]

Same ol' BS .... "if we allow the wealthy to keep their money, it won't benefit the middle class. There will be no jobs created, there will be no companies invested in."

Y'all need to wake up to reality. Until then, a discussion based on a false strawman is an exercise in mental masturbation.

Fact, the reason Clinton and OBama has such success in jobs growth...they raised taxes on the wealthy!!