How Trump spent the war years

[Lakhota]

I thought NaziCons didn't like cowardly draft dodgers - regardless if they are Democrats or Republicans. How can they criticize Clinton - and not cowards like Nugent and Trump? Can anyone spell H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-S-Y? I don't get it...

 

[blackhawk]

I find the left's sudden respect for veterans rather interesting as you didn't find that nearly as relevant when you went for Bill Clinton who also avoided military service over George H.W. Bush and Bob Dole as well as Barak Obama in 2008 over the very same John McCain.

 

[Lumpy 1]

I'm not sure how rightwinger can criticize Trump for dodging the war when he most certainly voted for Bill Clinton who did the same.

I don't fault anyone who dodged the draft.

I do object to a person who avoided service claiming those who were POWs are not real heroes. Hey....anyone can get captured

Some deserters get traded for hardened terrorist and are considered great hero's in an Obama Administration and the Democratic Party, Bergdahl comes to mind.

Bowe Bergdahl Update Maximum Life Sentence For 2009 Alleged Desertion At Stake For Army Sergeant

 

[Grizz]

[Note: After the draft letter, below, there is a transcript of a February 1992 Nightline program in which then-Governor Bill Clinton discusses the controversial draft letter with Ted Koppel.]
"Dear Colonel Holmes,
I am sorry to be so long in writing. I know I promised to let you hear from me at least once a month, and from now on you will, but I have had to have some time to think about this first letter. Almost daily since my return to England I have thought about writing, about what I want to and ought to say. First, I want to thank you, not just for saving me from the draft, but for being so kind and decent to me last summer, when I was as low as I have ever been. One thing which made the bond we struck in good faith somewhat palatable to me was my high regard for you personally. In retrospect, it seems that the admiration might not have been mutual had you known a little more about me, about my political beliefs and activities. At least you might have thought me more fit for the draft than for ROTC. Let me try to explain.
As you know, I worked for two years in a very minor position on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. I did it for the experience and the salary, but also for the opportunity, however small, of working every day against a war I opposed and despised with a depth of feeling I had reserved solely for racism in America before Vietnam. I did not take the matter lightly, but studied it carefully, and there was a time when not many people had more information about Vietnam at hand than I did. I have written and spoken and marched against the war. One of the national organizers of the Vietnam Moratorium is a close friend of mine. After I left Arkansas last summer, I went to Washington to work in the national headquarters of the Moratorium, then to England to organize the Americans here for demonstrations here October 15th and November 16th.

After one week of answering questions about allegations of draft-dodging and one week before the New Hampshire primary, a letter surfaces in which a young Bill Clinton thanks a colonel for "saving me from the draft."Clinton defends the letter and questions the motives of his accusers. (2/12/92)

Interlocked with the war is the draft issue, which I did not begin to consider separately until early 1968. For a law seminar at Georgetown I wrote a paper on the legal arguments for and against allowing, within the Selective Service System, the classification of selective conscientious objection, for those opposed to participation in a particular war, not simply to, quote, participation in war in any form, end quote. From my work I came to believe that the draft system itself is illegitimate. No government really rooted in limited, parliamentary democracy should have the power to make its citizens fight and kill and die in a war they may oppose, a war which even possibly may be wrong, a war which, in any case, does not involve immediately the peace and freedom of the nation.
The draft was justified in World War II because the life of the people collectively was at stake. Individuals had to fight if the nation was to survive, for the lives of their countrymen and their way of life. Vietnam is no such case. Nor was Korea, an example where, in my opinion, certain military action was justified but the draft was not, for the reasons stated above.
Because of my opposition to the draft and the war, I am in great sympathy with those who are not willing to fight, kill, and maybe die for their country, that is, the particular policy of a particular government, right or wrong. Two of my friends at Oxford are conscientious objectors. I wrote a letter of recommendation for one of them to his Mississippi draft board, a letter which I am more proud of than anything else I wrote at Oxford last year. One of my roommates is a draft resister who is possibly under indictment and may never be able to go home again. He is one of the bravest, best men I know. His country needs men like him more than they know. That he is considered a criminal is an obscenity.
The decision not to be a resister and the related subsequent decisions were the most difficult of my life. I decided to accept the draft in spite of my beliefs for one reason: to maintain my political viability within the system. For years I have worked to prepare myself for a political life characterized by both practical political ability and concern for rapid social progress. It is a life I still feel compelled to try to lead. I do not think our system of government is by definition corrupt, however dangerous and inadequate it has been in recent years (the society may be corrupt, but that is not the same thing, and if that is true we are all finished anyway).
When the draft came, despite political convictions, I was having a hard time facing the prospect of fighting a war I had been fighting against, and that is why I contacted you. ROTC was the one way left in which I could possibly, but not positively, avoid both Vietnam and resistance. Going on with my education, even coming back to England, played no part in my decision to join ROTC. I am back here, and would have been at Arkansas Law School, because there is nothing else I can do. In fact, I would like to have been able to take a year out perhaps to teach in a small college or work on some community action project and in the process to decide whether to attend law school or graduate school and how to be putting what I have learned to use. But the particulars of my personal life are not nearly as important to me as the principles involved.
After I signed the ROTC letter of intent I began to wonder whether the compromise I had made with myself was not more objectionable than the draft would have been, because I had no interest in the ROTC program in itself and all I seemed to have done was to protect myself from physical harm. Also, I began to think I had deceived you, not by lies - there were none - but by failing to tell you all the things I'm writing now. I doubt that I had the mental coherence to articulate them then. At that time, after we had made our agreement and you had sent my 1 - D deferment to my draft board, the anguish and loss of self-regard and self-confidence really set in. I hardly slept for weeks and kept going by eating compulsively and reading until exhaustion brought sleep. Finally on September 12th, I stayed up all night writing a letter to the chairman of my draft board, saying basically what is in the preceding paragraph, thanking him for trying to help me in a case where he really couldn't, and stating that I couldn't do the ROTC after all and would he please draft me as soon as possible.
I never mailed the letter, but I did carry it on me every day until I got on the plane to return to England. I didn't mail the letter because I didn't see, in the end, how my going in the Army and maybe going to Vietnam would achieve anything except a feeling that I had punished myself and gotten what I deserved. So I came back to England to try to make something of this second year of my Rhodes scholarship.
And that is where I am now, writing to you because you have been good to me and have a right to know what I think and feel. I am writing too in the hope that my telling this one story will help you to understand more clearly how so many fine people have come to find themselves still loving their country but loathing the military, to which you and other good men have devoted years, lifetimes, of the best service you could give. To many of us, it is no longer clear what is service and what is disservice, or if it is clear, the conclusion is likely to be illegal. Forgive the length of this letter. There was much to say. There is still a lot to be said, but it can wait. Please say hello to Colonel Jones for me. Merry Christmas.
Sincerely,
Bill Clinton"

"First, I want to thank you, not just for saving me from the draft"

"And that is where I am now, writing to you because you have been good to me and have a right to know what I think and feel. I am writing too in the hope that my telling this one story will help you to understand more clearly how so many fine people have come to find themselves still loving their country"" but loathing the military".

Bill Clinton s Draft Letter The Clinton Years FRONTLINE PBS

You left wing idiots need to get the fudge over yourselves, Billy Boy is your hero and he was a fucking coward.

Didn't see Bill Clinton deriding McCains status as a war hero because he was a POW

Why do you guys always struggle with equivalencies?

You don't like it when you get bitch slapped do you kid?

He DODGED the draft and admits to "loathing the military"

Hurts doesn't it?

Oh yes and I loathe Trump kid.

Where does he claim POWs are not " real heroes" like those who weren't captured?

Why do conservatives always struggle with equivalencies?

You whine about how Trump spent the war and don't give a shit that Billy dodged the draft and hates the Military.

You have no integrity at all, but that doesn't surprise me.

Oh yes, I detest Trump.

I don't care if either one of them dodged the draft

I do object to someone who avoided service mocking POWs

Now you are lying.

Look at your OP.

 

[rightwinger]

What does Joe "5 deferrments" Biden have to say about this?

Joe Biden respects POWs......unlike the leading Republican candidate

 

[Grizz]

I thought NaziCons didn't like cowardly draft dodgers - regardless if they are Democrats or Republicans. How can they criticize Clinton - and not cowards like Nugent and Trump? Can anyone spell H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-S-Y? I don't get it...

Tell you what , completely disavow Bill he embodies everything you hate.

He is a draft dodging coward piece of shit.

 

[rightwinger]

Didn't see Bill Clinton deriding McCains status as a war hero because he was a POW

Why do you guys always struggle with equivalencies?

You don't like it when you get bitch slapped do you kid?

He DODGED the draft and admits to "loathing the military"

Hurts doesn't it?

Oh yes and I loathe Trump kid.

Where does he claim POWs are not " real heroes" like those who weren't captured?

Why do conservatives always struggle with equivalencies?

You whine about how Trump spent the war and don't give a shit that Billy dodged the draft and hates the Military.

You have no integrity at all, but that doesn't surprise me.

Oh yes, I detest Trump.

I don't care if either one of them dodged the draft

I do object to someone who avoided service mocking POWs

Now you are lying.

Look at your OP.

Are you daft?

 

[mot1man]

View attachment 45608

Where does he claim POWs are not " real heroes" like those who weren't captured?

Why do conservatives always struggle with equivalencies?

You whine about how Trump spent the war and don't give a shit that Billy dodged the draft and hates the Military.

You have no integrity at all, but that doesn't surprise me.

Oh yes, I detest Trump.

I don't care if either one of them dodged the draft

I do object to someone who avoided service mocking POWs

This is how our soldiers think about Hillary, in one picture. Says a lot.

That's gotta be photo shopped. Yes? No?

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

I doubt it, he has a smirk on his face that looks like he is enjoying it.

Either way, that's some funneh.[emoji23]

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

 

[Grizz]

You don't like it when you get bitch slapped do you kid?

He DODGED the draft and admits to "loathing the military"

Hurts doesn't it?

Oh yes and I loathe Trump kid.

Where does he claim POWs are not " real heroes" like those who weren't captured?

Why do conservatives always struggle with equivalencies?

You whine about how Trump spent the war and don't give a shit that Billy dodged the draft and hates the Military.

You have no integrity at all, but that doesn't surprise me.

Oh yes, I detest Trump.

I don't care if either one of them dodged the draft

I do object to someone who avoided service mocking POWs

Now you are lying.

Look at your OP.

Are you daft?

You don't like that I will not let you off the hook?

Condemn Bill he embodied what you have proclaim to hate.

 

[Grizz]

You don't like it when you get bitch slapped do you kid?

He DODGED the draft and admits to "loathing the military"

Hurts doesn't it?

Oh yes and I loathe Trump kid.

Where does he claim POWs are not " real heroes" like those who weren't captured?

Why do conservatives always struggle with equivalencies?

You whine about how Trump spent the war and don't give a shit that Billy dodged the draft and hates the Military.

You have no integrity at all, but that doesn't surprise me.

Oh yes, I detest Trump.

I don't care if either one of them dodged the draft

I do object to someone who avoided service mocking POWs

Now you are lying.

Look at your OP.

Are you daft?

I detest Trump.

I served kid, you?

 

[jknowgood]

I thought NaziCons didn't like cowardly draft dodgers - regardless if they are Democrats or Republicans. How can they criticize Clinton - and not cowards like Nugent and Trump? Can anyone spell H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-S-Y? I don't get it...

If the primaries were today I would vote for Carson, but Trump is making liberals crazy like Palin did. So I do like him, but over all how all soldiers are treated, liberals hate our soldiers.

 

[rightwinger]

Where does he claim POWs are not " real heroes" like those who weren't captured?

Why do conservatives always struggle with equivalencies?

You whine about how Trump spent the war and don't give a shit that Billy dodged the draft and hates the Military.

You have no integrity at all, but that doesn't surprise me.

Oh yes, I detest Trump.

I don't care if either one of them dodged the draft

I do object to someone who avoided service mocking POWs

Now you are lying.

Look at your OP.

Are you daft?

You don't like that I will not let you off the hook?

Condemn Bill he embodied what you have proclaim to hate.

No, seriously....are you daft?

The intent of the OP went totally over your head

 

[CrusaderFrank]

What does Joe "5 deferrments" Biden have to say about this?

Joe Biden respects POWs......unlike the leading Republican candidate

Maybe Joe will challenge St Hillary the Inevitable

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Clinton: I loathe the military
Obama: death to America, the great Satan

 

[boilermaker55]

Making and assumption there aren't you ass.
No where has anyone said that about this controversy at all.
Dig a little deeper hole.
Foolboy

It seems you forget the biggest part of what you read.
President Clinton never made an insulting remark to Sen.McCain.
Nice try avoiding the reality of the post.
Fool!

I wonder if Trump and slick Willie were hangin out together back in the day.

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Libtards erroneously believed McCain represented the majority of todays' vets............

 

[boilermaker55]

We all know he has much more class than the likes of those like you that don't get what the post is about.
I am not a McCain fan at all but he deserves his credit for his patriotic duty.Unlike "the donald." who finds any way to be unpatriotic.
His words do not reflect his actions.

It seems you forget the biggest part of what you read.
President Clinton never made an insulting remark to Sen.McCain.
Nice try avoiding the reality of the post.
Fool!

I wonder if Trump and slick Willie were hangin out together back in the day.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

Libtards erroneously believed McCain represented the majority of todays' vets............

 

[Freewill]

Republicans leading candidate for President

How Trump spent the war years

IT WAS THE spring of 1968, and Donald Trump had it good. He was 21 years old and handsome, with a full head of hair. He'd avoided the Vietnam War draft on his way to earning an Ivy League degree. He was fond of fancy dinners, beautiful women, and outrageous clubs.

Most important, he had a job in his father's real estate company and a brain bursting with moneymaking ideas that would make him a billionaire.

"When I graduated from college, I had a net worth of perhaps $200,000," he said in his 1987 autobiography Trump: The Art of the Deal, written with Tony Schwartz. (That's about $1.4 million in 2015 dollars.) "I had my eye on Manhattan."

More than 8,000 miles away, John McCain sat in a tiny, squalid North Vietnamese prison cell. The Navy pilot's body was broken from a plane crash, starvation, botched operations, and months of torture.

The stark contrast in their fortunes was thrown into sharp relief this month when Trump belittled McCain during a campaign speech in Iowa. "He's not a war hero," Trump said of McCain. "He's a war hero because he was captured. I like people that weren't captured."

here I thought you were going to say by playing cards with William Jefferson Clinton. Or going to protest America in England. Funny how Clinton not being in Viet Nam isn't a problem for the left, well not all that funny.

 

[whitehall]

How did Hillary's husband spend the "Vietnam war years" after lying to his draft board about joining the Reserves and lying to the Reserves. Didn't Hillary go along with and support the border line criminal draft dodge?

 

[Vigilante]

We all know he has much more class than the likes of those like you that don't get what the post is about.
I am not a McCain fan at all but he deserves his credit for his patriotic duty.Unlike "the donald." who finds any way to be unpatriotic.
His words do not reflect his actions.

It seems you forget the biggest part of what you read.
President Clinton never made an insulting remark to Sen.McCain.
Nice try avoiding the reality of the post.
Fool!

I wonder if Trump and slick Willie were hangin out together back in the day.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

Libtards erroneously believed McCain represented the majority of todays' vets............

Aw, did the TRUTH upset you.... As a Nam Vet, Trump didn't upset me...OR my fellow Vets! You simply don't know what you are talking about!


Poll: Vets view Trump more favorably than war hero McCain!!!!!!!!!

BPR BizPac Review ^ | July 25, 2015 | Michael Dorstewitz
Veterans and military personnel apparently don’t mind what Donald Trump said about John McCain. A poll shows they view the Republican presidential candidate more favorably than they do the Arizona GOP senator. The YouGov.Economist poll was released on Friday.

 

[rightwinger]

Republicans leading candidate for President

How Trump spent the war years

IT WAS THE spring of 1968, and Donald Trump had it good. He was 21 years old and handsome, with a full head of hair. He'd avoided the Vietnam War draft on his way to earning an Ivy League degree. He was fond of fancy dinners, beautiful women, and outrageous clubs.

Most important, he had a job in his father's real estate company and a brain bursting with moneymaking ideas that would make him a billionaire.

"When I graduated from college, I had a net worth of perhaps $200,000," he said in his 1987 autobiography Trump: The Art of the Deal, written with Tony Schwartz. (That's about $1.4 million in 2015 dollars.) "I had my eye on Manhattan."

More than 8,000 miles away, John McCain sat in a tiny, squalid North Vietnamese prison cell. The Navy pilot's body was broken from a plane crash, starvation, botched operations, and months of torture.

The stark contrast in their fortunes was thrown into sharp relief this month when Trump belittled McCain during a campaign speech in Iowa. "He's not a war hero," Trump said of McCain. "He's a war hero because he was captured. I like people that weren't captured."

here I thought you were going to say by playing cards with William Jefferson Clinton. Or going to protest America in England. Funny how Clinton not being in Viet Nam isn't a problem for the left, well not all that funny.

Of course it is not a problem

Didn't see Clinton claiming POWs are not heroes .....I do have a problem with the leading Republican candidate thinking so