How do you "just know?"

[Katzndogz]

Not a trick question - I'm being sincere. Me and the guy who hooked up my Verizon Fios were talking about this.

I was telling him that I'm just agnostic - I don't believe everything came from nothing but at the same time I'm not at all Religious.

He began to get into the Forgiveness thing.

I was like - well, I do my best (and even when noone's looking) to be a good person.....but if I continue down that path and can never get over the mental block of not having "faith," then I guess I'm doomed eh?

But the mental block won't ever go away. I know this because I know myself. I'd have to see some sort of miracle, and be able to somehow attribute that miracle to a Religion or whatever. I don't see this happening. How do you "just know?"

For me, "you don't."

I'm sure it's different for others.

I had a friend that was an atheist since she was a teenager. She suffered from severe debilitating headaches as a girl. She went to doctor after doctor and no one could find the cause or the cure. So she prayed. She prayed for hours. Her prayers were not answered, not one time. She concluded that there was no God because her prayers were never answered and her headaches didn't go away.

I had to ask her what happened since I had never known her to have a headache at all. She said that it wasn't God, they just got less and less, further and further apart until she just didn't get them anymore.

That's why she was an atheist.

 

[syrenn]

Perfect question to ask Republicans.

They either "just know" or had a "gut feeling".

Idiot.. you are worse then liesmatters...

what on earth does this this discussion have to do with Republicans?

 

[hortysir]

Not a trick question - I'm being sincere. Me and the guy who hooked up my Verizon Fios were talking about this.

I was telling him that I'm just agnostic - I don't believe everything came from nothing but at the same time I'm not at all Religious.

He began to get into the Forgiveness thing.

I was like - well, I do my best (and even when noone's looking) to be a good person.....but if I continue down that path and can never get over the mental block of not having "faith," then I guess I'm doomed eh?

But the mental block won't ever go away. I know this because I know myself. I'd have to see some sort of miracle, and be able to somehow attribute that miracle to a Religion or whatever. I don't see this happening. How do you "just know?"

For me, "you don't."

I'm sure it's different for others.

Your opening post isn't what I was expecting when I read the title but I think my original thought as to what it meant can help to answer a little bit....

I thought the question was meant to ask, "How do you explain instinct?"

It made me think of a deer, when I'm out hunting.
I'm sitting in a tree with my rifle against my shoulder. I haven't made a noise or even so much as taken a breath out of anticipation.
The wind hasn't changed and this big buck isn't looking my direction.
All of a sudden his ears perk up and ZOOM!! he's off like a rabbit!!

We always call it 'instinct', right?

I call it 'God's whisper'.
Ya ever get that feeling, sometimes, like you shouldn't be somewhere so you leave and find out later that (for instance) a car swerved up on to that curb shortly after you left....or something similar????

Again, 'God's whisper'.

That's how you "just know" when something isn't right, or that you should do something, or that you shouldn't be doing what you're doing.

So, as an agnostic, you might call it instinct or conscience.
I call it God's voice!!

When you start to call it what it is, you'll more easily recognize it for what it is when you hear it.

 

[xotoxi]

Not a trick question - I'm being sincere. Me and the guy who hooked up my Verizon Fios were talking about this.

I was telling him that I'm just agnostic - I don't believe everything came from nothing but at the same time I'm not at all Religious.

He began to get into the Forgiveness thing.

I was like - well, I do my best (and even when noone's looking) to be a good person.....but if I continue down that path and can never get over the mental block of not having "faith," then I guess I'm doomed eh?

But the mental block won't ever go away. I know this because I know myself. I'd have to see some sort of miracle, and be able to somehow attribute that miracle to a Religion or whatever. I don't see this happening. How do you "just know?"

For me, "you don't."

I'm sure it's different for others.

"How do you prove you love someone"?

Easy. All you have to think of is how you would feel if they were suddenly gone from your life.

If the answer is "utter despair", then you love them.

 

[Sherry]

You can't force yourself to believe, and you can't force yourself to stop believing...and I have tried to reject God a few times in my life. While I don't feel that I need to be part of a religion to have a relationship with God, the fellowship with other people who have faith can be nice. I've also been lucky to have pastors who never made me feel bad for all of my questions, and even encouraged me to challenge the teachings of the church. In fact, within our Synod, pastors disagree and debate about all sorts of issues. I have not felt forced to blindly accept anything, and I will never stop questioning. I've also never felt compelled to convince anyone that they should reconsider their own beliefs.

 

[G.T.]

Again... why did you as a child believe in santa, the easter bunny and tooth fairy?

Two factors.
One: becasue you were told to believe in them.
Two: you wanted to believe in them.

The whole point of religion is submission and following without question. To believe.....

I told you the distinction between now and then. We are back at square one.

How?


Your "boundary" point is where you agree, conscious or not, to submit and follow with blind faith without question...or prof... to believe....

I won't submit with blind faith - that's the whole point.

 

[G.T.]

Perhaps this is all true, but I'm not here to poke anyone's ribs. I want points of view minus glib.

Superb! Then resist assigning a glib tone to this:

"Just knowing" is a lie that insecure people tell themselves to avoid saying "I don't know," or "I am uncertain."​

Consider the nature of those who think uncertainty is something to be ashamed of; who can't function competently without a connection to a real or imaginary source of unconditional certainty; who insist that reality conforms to their unconditional convictions of certainty.

Then consider the nature of those who don't think uncertainty is something to be ashamed of; who can function competently without a connection to a real or imaginary source of unconditional certainty; who insist that their convictions of certainty conform to objective reality.

Those who don't fall back on "just knowing," and are at ease with saying, "I don't know, or "I am uncertain," obviously have no need to claim to "just know." They may not be comfortable about their uncertainty; they may seek to resolve it. But the means to that goal won't have to be cultivating certainty from an imaginary source--ever.

Those who claim to "just know," obviously just don't. Any correlation their claims (under such a premise) have with objective reality are purely coincidental. There's no "why" to how they "just know," but there is the "why" they say they "just know." I posit that the ""why" they say they "just know"" is an insecurity, and that insecurity is ameliorated by telling themselves that they "just know."

I don't know if what you posit is fact for them all - is my point - but it seems so thus far here.

 

[G.T.]

Not a trick question - I'm being sincere. Me and the guy who hooked up my Verizon Fios were talking about this.

I was telling him that I'm just agnostic - I don't believe everything came from nothing but at the same time I'm not at all Religious.

He began to get into the Forgiveness thing.

I was like - well, I do my best (and even when noone's looking) to be a good person.....but if I continue down that path and can never get over the mental block of not having "faith," then I guess I'm doomed eh?

But the mental block won't ever go away. I know this because I know myself. I'd have to see some sort of miracle, and be able to somehow attribute that miracle to a Religion or whatever. I don't see this happening. How do you "just know?"

For me, "you don't."

I'm sure it's different for others.

Dear GT:
Everyone I know reaches the point where they recognize their limit.
Where there is something in ourselves or in our lives we CANNOT change.

At whatever point you let go/forgive/accept there are some things in life
greater than ourselves, that is where "faith" steps in.

Just because you don't talk about how you think/feel/believe
the same way other people do
doesn't mean it's that much
different from whatever changes and struggles THEY went through.

The more we realize that we are each unique and none of us or
our experiences can be directly compared with any other,
the more we realize how universal the human process is,
that we ALL go through these same processes, and yet no two paths are the same.

So recognizing that universality and how it does not contradict being unique
is where faith steps in, that we are all part of one interconnected spiritual process,
all of us have our individual roles and contributions, and whatever differences we have
are SUPPOSED to be there and serve a purpose that adds to the whole.

I hope you can let go some of these fears that your faith won't be like other people's
faith or expectations/conditions. No one's views are going to align perfectly,
and the most we can do is try to harmonize like instruments in an orchestra that all play in different keys.

Forgiving those differences helps you focus on the commonality underneath.
Don't let that worry you or trip you up; EVERYONE I know gets tripped up the same way.

Just be okay, and you'll find a way to think and frame things
where it works in harmony, no matter how different you may
feel from other people. All people go through that, and just express it differently.

Take care and more love and power to ya!

Yours truly,
Emily

Nice post !~

 

[G.T.]

G.T.
How did this subject with the guy come up?
Did he talk to you about or did you bring it up?
You have probably been questioning this in your mind for quite sometime now right?
What do you think that thing is ? That inner voice that keeps coming up in your thoughts.
That is the Holy Spirit wanting to you come to Christ.
All who have accepted Jesus as their Saviour have wrestled with this, before we accept him.
And once you accept him you feel it inside of you.
Once you feel that inner warmth and love inside, then you have do doubts what so ever, that he lives and is real.

I can't ascribe the "questioning this" to the Holy Spirit or any Religion blindly or because it's in a book. Part of the problem. I can't imagine coming around to faith in any Religion short of seeing a supernatural miracle - and then being able to ascribe said miracle to a particular Religion. It seems a long shot.

I'm not like others where - I'll pair a bunch of coincedences and say "eureka! God!" because my mind just simply doesn't and won't function that way.

I'm not like other where - if I'm going through a tough time and then claw my way out I say "eureka! God was testing me!"

I need to be told/shown directly, not indirectly through coincedence or trial, and then subsequent abstract thought to bring me to that which I'd ascribe said coincedence or trial.

Anyways - we started talking about Death b/c I mentioned to him that my wife's Uncle just died, and then it unravelled from there.

 

[G.T.]

explain to me again what the conflict is please.

I'd like to know what leads someone to believe in a Religion - what exactly breaks them past that "Rationalization" boundary of needing proof, etc.

I have chosen to pray for my answer. Not always to God at first just for an answer. It always comes back to me through actions that God exists. He does answer prayers, not necessarily in a manner you wanted but you can and d see his answer.

Every time I have prayed for guidance from God I have gotten an answer. Either through someone approaching me and telling me something or through contemplation on my own or even from a movie a may have a chosen to watch.

Now my failure is I do not always follow the Guidance.

I wouldn't be able to give credit like that without knowing for certain where it came from.

 

[G.T.]

Not a trick question - I'm being sincere. Me and the guy who hooked up my Verizon Fios were talking about this.

I was telling him that I'm just agnostic - I don't believe everything came from nothing but at the same time I'm not at all Religious.

He began to get into the Forgiveness thing.

I was like - well, I do my best (and even when noone's looking) to be a good person.....but if I continue down that path and can never get over the mental block of not having "faith," then I guess I'm doomed eh?

But the mental block won't ever go away. I know this because I know myself. I'd have to see some sort of miracle, and be able to somehow attribute that miracle to a Religion or whatever. I don't see this happening. How do you "just know?"

For me, "you don't."

I'm sure it's different for others.

Your opening post isn't what I was expecting when I read the title but I think my original thought as to what it meant can help to answer a little bit....

I thought the question was meant to ask, "How do you explain instinct?"

It made me think of a deer, when I'm out hunting.
I'm sitting in a tree with my rifle against my shoulder. I haven't made a noise or even so much as taken a breath out of anticipation.
The wind hasn't changed and this big buck isn't looking my direction.
All of a sudden his ears perk up and ZOOM!! he's off like a rabbit!!

We always call it 'instinct', right?

I call it 'God's whisper'.
Ya ever get that feeling, sometimes, like you shouldn't be somewhere so you leave and find out later that (for instance) a car swerved up on to that curb shortly after you left....or something similar????

Again, 'God's whisper'.

That's how you "just know" when something isn't right, or that you should do something, or that you shouldn't be doing what you're doing.

So, as an agnostic, you might call it instinct or conscience.
I call it God's voice!!

When you start to call it what it is, you'll more easily recognize it for what it is when you hear it.

I never will call it Gods voice until I see a supernatural phenomena and subsequently a God of one of the Religions step forth and claim credit.

That's what I mean - my rationale will *NOT* let me, no matter how light hearted and open minded I'm feeling that day.

 

[peach174]

Then you will never find it, because God does not work that way. You have been showen many ways, but you won't accept it long as you keep using the excuse of rationale.
The very fact of miracles is not rational, that is why they are called miracles.
That is why Dr.'s always say the person's recovery is a miracle because there is no rational explanation. It defies any explanation.
You can see it all around you and Revelation is happing right before our eyes.
But it is up to you to decide.

 

[G.T.]

Then you will never find it, because God does not work that way. You have been showen many ways, but you won't accept it long as you keep using the excuse of rationale.
The very fact of miracles is not rational, that is why they are called miracles.
That is why Dr.'s always say the person's recovery is a miracle because there is no rational explanation. It defies any explanation.
You can see it all around you and Revelation is happing right before our eyes.
But it is up to you to decide.

I have a major problem with that - and any Religion that purports that.

 

[peach174]

How do you rationalize anything that has no explanation?

 

[G.T.]

How do you rationalize anything that has no explanation?

By shrugging my shoulders and saying maybe.

 

[Newby]

Then you will never find it, because God does not work that way. You have been showen many ways, but you won't accept it long as you keep using the excuse of rationale.
The very fact of miracles is not rational, that is why they are called miracles.
That is why Dr.'s always say the person's recovery is a miracle because there is no rational explanation. It defies any explanation.
You can see it all around you and Revelation is happing right before our eyes.
But it is up to you to decide.

I have a major problem with that - and any Religion that purports that.

Yeah, but at the same time you're making a huge assumption that your 'rationale' can explain or understand everything in a logical/rational way that makes sense to the human mind. Maybe it can't?

 

[G.T.]

Then you will never find it, because God does not work that way. You have been showen many ways, but you won't accept it long as you keep using the excuse of rationale.
The very fact of miracles is not rational, that is why they are called miracles.
That is why Dr.'s always say the person's recovery is a miracle because there is no rational explanation. It defies any explanation.
You can see it all around you and Revelation is happing right before our eyes.
But it is up to you to decide.

I have a major problem with that - and any Religion that purports that.

Yeah, but at the same time you're making a huge assumption that your 'rationale' can explain or understand everything in a logical/rational way that makes sense to the human mind. Maybe it can't?[/QUOTE]

I accept that it can't, and never believed that it could; however, at the same time that's no excuse to me to blindly believe something without said rational basis. I just never can, not by choice but by my cranial organism between my ears' functionality.

 

[peach174]

You have the proof G.T.

You refuse to accept it.
If you use rational thinking. You would come to the conclusion that there is most defiantly a designer who created this universe and everything that is in it.
Humans who try to explain the perfection of the workings in this universe and this world does not cut it.
By no means or way, was the Universe or Earth a random or accidental way of how it works or came into being.
Everything points to a designer and the designer is God.
How do I know there is a God?
Because he has answered me with every prayer and every question and has guided me throughout my whole life.A lot of times I did not like the answer, but I found out latter why.
Even when I didn't seek for or look for him in my younger days. He was always with me.
Like I said it's up to you to decide.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Not a trick question - I'm being sincere. Me and the guy who hooked up my Verizon Fios were talking about this.

I was telling him that I'm just agnostic - I don't believe everything came from nothing but at the same time I'm not at all Religious.

He began to get into the Forgiveness thing.

I was like - well, I do my best (and even when noone's looking) to be a good person.....but if I continue down that path and can never get over the mental block of not having "faith," then I guess I'm doomed eh?

But the mental block won't ever go away. I know this because I know myself. I'd have to see some sort of miracle, and be able to somehow attribute that miracle to a Religion or whatever. I don't see this happening. How do you "just know?"

For me, "you don't."

I'm sure it's different for others.

Self-Reliance

Try that.

Can you stick a C# on a C tonality? You just know, right?

 

[peach174]

No one who believes , believes blindly G.T.
An no one is asking you to blindly believe.