How do you "just know?"

[TheLonelySquire]

When you were young, didnt you "just know" santa was real, and the easter bunny and tooth fairy were "real".... You believed ...you believed blindly because it was what your parents told you...

What changed your perception of "real" ...


Religion/god...is about the same thing.

To me, the universe appearing out of nothing is about as believable as Ole' Saint Nick!

Life from non-life? That dog don't hunt.....

And why does it have to be a god sparks all of this?





could be the Squire of Gothos who did it you know...... lol.

I agree that for many God is a reach. Faith isn't always easy to be sure. Maybe it WAS the Squire!

Seriously, I believe in God because of a personal experience I had and I have no problem talking about it. I am a big believer in the scientific method and am extremely hard to convince on many subjects. Wasn't easy maing me believe.

God seems to me to also be the most logical explanation to explain life from non-life in our universe. I look at science as a tool we use to get closer to God.

I also spoke to an obstetrician once who told me "only God can make a baby". I thought that was pretty cool. The miracle of life...brought to us by God.

 

[amrchaos]

What about your faith in "justice"?
If you believe there is justice on some level, and it will be realized by
acting with justice regardless what others do, that is the same as faith in Jesus.

My belief in justice has ZREO to so with jusus. Humans meter our justice in their own cultural ways. By man for man.











Forgiveness is given out by man to other men..... ZERO god required for that.






Hard work is accomplished by men and for men, by the minds and sweat of men..... ZERO god involved.





I agree....faith in your fellow man.





How sad you only think its jesus and god( christianity) that stand for these universal beliefs. I do believe that every other cult teaches the same concepts.




Can you prove that god and jeses were not pixies and fairies?





That is about the size of it...... the universal truth of ..... humanity. No god required.






No, santa or the tooth fariy will not get us there.... but you started out on the right track. Having faith in HUMANITY for peace and social justice....will get us there. No god required.





Religious wars are fought for the same old reasons as any other war is faught..... land, power, wealth,, hate and dominion.




They were threatened becasue they dared to say things were not the way the religious masters would have you believe....

When you truly understand the liberty of humanity at stake,
then maybe you will understand why people have fought wars
and stood to die for Truth and Justice for all humanity, which God and Jesus represent.

I full well understand what humanity has at stake. Truth and justice are humanity issues.... and only humans will work that out. .... no god or jesus required.

If I might ask, I assume you believe in moraltiy? If so, do you have a moral standard? And if you do does that standard remain constant or does it change?

My point being that if you have an ever changing moral standard then in effect you have no standard at all. And if you have non standard you have no morals. God ives us the standard by which we should live.

It's the same with our legal system. When rapists and murderers are given plea agreements and allowed to go free, when drug dealers get slapped on the wrist, it only shows that man as a morality and justice dispenser is sorely lacking.

Againm without God it's a trainwreck.

I have a question.

Is "bearing false witness" immoral?

Because there exist cases where "bearing false witness" maybe the simplest method to preserve innocent life.

 

[TheLonelySquire]

My belief in justice has ZREO to so with jusus. Humans meter our justice in their own cultural ways. By man for man.











Forgiveness is given out by man to other men..... ZERO god required for that.






Hard work is accomplished by men and for men, by the minds and sweat of men..... ZERO god involved.





I agree....faith in your fellow man.





How sad you only think its jesus and god( christianity) that stand for these universal beliefs. I do believe that every other cult teaches the same concepts.




Can you prove that god and jeses were not pixies and fairies?





That is about the size of it...... the universal truth of ..... humanity. No god required.






No, santa or the tooth fariy will not get us there.... but you started out on the right track. Having faith in HUMANITY for peace and social justice....will get us there. No god required.





Religious wars are fought for the same old reasons as any other war is faught..... land, power, wealth,, hate and dominion.




They were threatened becasue they dared to say things were not the way the religious masters would have you believe....






I full well understand what humanity has at stake. Truth and justice are humanity issues.... and only humans will work that out. .... no god or jesus required.

If I might ask, I assume you believe in moraltiy? If so, do you have a moral standard? And if you do does that standard remain constant or does it change?

My point being that if you have an ever changing moral standard then in effect you have no standard at all. And if you have non standard you have no morals. God ives us the standard by which we should live.

It's the same with our legal system. When rapists and murderers are given plea agreements and allowed to go free, when drug dealers get slapped on the wrist, it only shows that man as a morality and justice dispenser is sorely lacking.

Againm without God it's a trainwreck.

You have no proof that it's God and not humans that create the ever changing moral standard(s). That's a problem.

Again, God provides a moral standard. If you are a follower of God/Jesus and you deviate from that standard the standard still remains. Humans provide an ever changing standard. If you do not believe in God then by default you cannot possess morals. That's the problem.

 

[G.T.]

If I might ask, I assume you believe in moraltiy? If so, do you have a moral standard? And if you do does that standard remain constant or does it change?

My point being that if you have an ever changing moral standard then in effect you have no standard at all. And if you have non standard you have no morals. God ives us the standard by which we should live.

It's the same with our legal system. When rapists and murderers are given plea agreements and allowed to go free, when drug dealers get slapped on the wrist, it only shows that man as a morality and justice dispenser is sorely lacking.

Againm without God it's a trainwreck.

You have no proof that it's God and not humans that create the ever changing moral standard(s). That's a problem.

Again, God provides a moral standard. If you are a follower of God/Jesus and you deviate from that standard the standard still remains. Humans provide an ever changing standard. If you do not believe in God then by default you cannot possess morals. That's the problem.

Repeating it doesn't make it true. What I said was: you have no proof.

That remains.

 

[syrenn]

To me, the universe appearing out of nothing is about as believable as Ole' Saint Nick!

Life from non-life? That dog don't hunt.....

And why does it have to be a god sparks all of this?





could be the Squire of Gothos who did it you know...... lol.

I agree that for many God is a reach. Faith isn't always easy to be sure. Maybe it WAS the Squire!

Seriously, I believe in God because of a personal experience I had and I have no problem talking about it. I am a big believer in the scientific method and am extremely hard to convince on many subjects. Wasn't easy maing me believe.

God seems to me to also be the most logical explanation to explain life from non-life in our universe. I look at science as a tool we use to get closer to God.

I also spoke to an obstetrician once who told me "only God can make a baby". I thought that was pretty cool. The miracle of life...brought to us by God.

God is anything you want to believe in to explain the unexplainable.... if the god/religion rout is the way you want to go. Again, not much different then santa clause or the easter bunny for children. god is the grown-up magician. The squire of Gotoho works just as well for me...... one fiction for another you know

I feel "closest to god" ... at the peak of a really good orgasm....so i guess you could say babies are made by god. Can women start suing god for child support? hhhmm i wonder.......

 

[Dragon]

Simple... There are only 2 choices. You either believe or you do not believe.

If you're a mystic and have had heavy spiritual experiences, you know but can't tell. You don't have to believe then. Otherwise, yes.

 

[syrenn]

If I might ask, I assume you believe in moraltiy? If so, do you have a moral standard? And if you do does that standard remain constant or does it change?

My point being that if you have an ever changing moral standard then in effect you have no standard at all. And if you have non standard you have no morals. God ives us the standard by which we should live.

It's the same with our legal system. When rapists and murderers are given plea agreements and allowed to go free, when drug dealers get slapped on the wrist, it only shows that man as a morality and justice dispenser is sorely lacking.

Againm without God it's a trainwreck.

You have no proof that it's God and not humans that create the ever changing moral standard(s). That's a problem.

Again, God provides a moral standard. If you are a follower of God/Jesus and you deviate from that standard the standard still remains. Humans provide an ever changing standard. If you do not believe in God then by default you cannot possess morals. That's the problem.

And who put the words to gods moral standards? Man did. How do we know they are "gods" standards in the first place and not some smart scribe or man? Allah has his standards...of which men put the words to. All gods of all religions.... are nothing but the words of men.

 

[TheLonelySquire]

You have no proof that it's God and not humans that create the ever changing moral standard(s). That's a problem.

Again, God provides a moral standard. If you are a follower of God/Jesus and you deviate from that standard the standard still remains. Humans provide an ever changing standard. If you do not believe in God then by default you cannot possess morals. That's the problem.

Repeating it doesn't make it true. What I said was: you have no proof.

That remains.

Oh, I DO have proof. As much proof as I need. You are the one that lacks proof but I certainly respect your right to believe or not.

You actually have no proof as to the "scientific" origin of the universe so I fail to understand how you can feel so confident in your viewpoint yet totally discount mine. Your faith is simply different. Regardless though, you have faith that you also cannot prove.

 

[G.T.]

Again, God provides a moral standard. If you are a follower of God/Jesus and you deviate from that standard the standard still remains. Humans provide an ever changing standard. If you do not believe in God then by default you cannot possess morals. That's the problem.

Repeating it doesn't make it true. What I said was: you have no proof.

That remains.

Oh, I DO have proof. As much proof as I need. You are the one that lacks proof but I certainly respect your right to believe or not.

You actually have no proof as to the "scientific" origin of the universe so I fail to understand how you can feel so confident in your viewpoint yet totally discount mine. Your faith is simply different. Regardless though, you have faith that you also cannot prove.

I never claimed to have proof to the scientific origin of the universe, so I of course don't have faith in the scientific origin of the Universe and never said I did.

Are you reading someone else's posts and applying your responses to mine?

As far as proof --> aside from God existing in general lacking proof, what my response that you just replied to was referring to was that you do not have any type of proof where morals come from.

 

[TheLonelySquire]

And why does it have to be a god sparks all of this?





could be the Squire of Gothos who did it you know...... lol.

I agree that for many God is a reach. Faith isn't always easy to be sure. Maybe it WAS the Squire!

Seriously, I believe in God because of a personal experience I had and I have no problem talking about it. I am a big believer in the scientific method and am extremely hard to convince on many subjects. Wasn't easy maing me believe.

God seems to me to also be the most logical explanation to explain life from non-life in our universe. I look at science as a tool we use to get closer to God.

I also spoke to an obstetrician once who told me "only God can make a baby". I thought that was pretty cool. The miracle of life...brought to us by God.

God is anything you want to believe in to explain the unexplainable.... if the god/religion rout is the way you want to go. Again, not much different then santa clause or the easter bunny for children. god is the grown-up magician. The squire of Gotoho works just as well for me...... one fiction for another you know

I feel "closest to god" ... at the peak of a really good orgasm....so i guess you could say babies are made by god. Can women start suing god for child support? hhhmm i wonder.......

I welcome you to believe whatever you want. No problem here. You can believe in any or none of the above. You can believe two men can be married or that pigs can fly for all I care. Whatever floats your boat. Rock on, brother.

 

[Dragon]

It is inherently impossible to prove the existence of "God." I place that word in quotes because it is a metaphor.

Spiritual experience proves the existence of the reality for which "God" is a metaphor, but only to the person who undergoes it. It is impossible to convey that proof to another, and in fact, it's impossible even to communicate the nature of the reality for which "God" is a metaphor to another.

When an atheist says "God," he means a literal reality which can be communicated in words. As far as I know, "God," literally interpreted, does not exist.

 

[syrenn]

I agree that for many God is a reach. Faith isn't always easy to be sure. Maybe it WAS the Squire!

Seriously, I believe in God because of a personal experience I had and I have no problem talking about it. I am a big believer in the scientific method and am extremely hard to convince on many subjects. Wasn't easy maing me believe.

God seems to me to also be the most logical explanation to explain life from non-life in our universe. I look at science as a tool we use to get closer to God.

I also spoke to an obstetrician once who told me "only God can make a baby". I thought that was pretty cool. The miracle of life...brought to us by God.

God is anything you want to believe in to explain the unexplainable.... if the god/religion rout is the way you want to go. Again, not much different then santa clause or the easter bunny for children. god is the grown-up magician. The squire of Gotoho works just as well for me...... one fiction for another you know

I feel "closest to god" ... at the peak of a really good orgasm....so i guess you could say babies are made by god. Can women start suing god for child support? hhhmm i wonder.......

I welcome you to believe whatever you want. No problem here. You can believe in any or none of the above. You can believe two men can be married or that pigs can fly for all I care. Whatever floats your boat. Rock on, brother.

LOL.... that is about how i stand too.

 

[TheLonelySquire]

Repeating it doesn't make it true. What I said was: you have no proof.

That remains.

Oh, I DO have proof. As much proof as I need. You are the one that lacks proof but I certainly respect your right to believe or not.

You actually have no proof as to the "scientific" origin of the universe so I fail to understand how you can feel so confident in your viewpoint yet totally discount mine. Your faith is simply different. Regardless though, you have faith that you also cannot prove.

I never claimed to have proof to the scientific origin of the universe, so I of course don't have faith in the scientific origin of the Universe and never said I did.

Are you reading someone else's posts and applying your responses to mine?

As far as proof --> aside from God existing in general lacking proof, what my response that you just replied to was referring to was that you do not have any type of proof where morals come from.

My bad. Please explain your take on how we all came to be here on this big blue marble if you can.

 

[G.T.]

It is inherently impossible to prove the existence of "God." I place that word in quotes because it is a metaphor.

Spiritual experience proves the existence of the reality for which "God" is a metaphor, but only to the person who undergoes it. It is impossible to convey that proof to another, and in fact, it's impossible even to communicate the nature of the reality for which "God" is a metaphor to another.

When an atheist says "God," he means a literal reality which can be communicated in words. As far as I know, "God," literally interpreted, does not exist.

The Bible itself does its best.

 

[TheLonelySquire]

God is anything you want to believe in to explain the unexplainable.... if the god/religion rout is the way you want to go. Again, not much different then santa clause or the easter bunny for children. god is the grown-up magician. The squire of Gotoho works just as well for me...... one fiction for another you know

I feel "closest to god" ... at the peak of a really good orgasm....so i guess you could say babies are made by god. Can women start suing god for child support? hhhmm i wonder.......

I welcome you to believe whatever you want. No problem here. You can believe in any or none of the above. You can believe two men can be married or that pigs can fly for all I care. Whatever floats your boat. Rock on, brother.

LOL.... that is about how i stand too.

Yep. I certainly have my beliefs and you have yours. People have to understand that by others voicing their beliefs it doesn't devalue your own. If it does then you're not really a believer in your own opinion. Thx for your post.

 

[G.T.]

Oh, I DO have proof. As much proof as I need. You are the one that lacks proof but I certainly respect your right to believe or not.

You actually have no proof as to the "scientific" origin of the universe so I fail to understand how you can feel so confident in your viewpoint yet totally discount mine. Your faith is simply different. Regardless though, you have faith that you also cannot prove.

I never claimed to have proof to the scientific origin of the universe, so I of course don't have faith in the scientific origin of the Universe and never said I did.

Are you reading someone else's posts and applying your responses to mine?

As far as proof --> aside from God existing in general lacking proof, what my response that you just replied to was referring to was that you do not have any type of proof where morals come from.

My bad. Please explain your take on how we all came to be here on this big blue marble if you can.

i did in the 1st post of the entire thread

 

[ilia25]

Humans provide an ever changing standard.

I don't think that humans provide an ever changing morals. On the fundamental level the human moral is constant, and that is how it ended up in many religions, including Christianity.

Basically all human morals can be deducted from a simple rule:
"Do not impose suffering on other people".

And that rule itself is not divine, it can be derived from the basic common sense -- if you harm others, you can't complain if they respond by harming you.

So that how it goes -- human morals are nothing more than a common sense. And religious morals are accepted only to the extent they do not contradict human morals.

 

[Dragon]

The Bible itself does its best.

Its best isn't nearly good enough. The problem with the Bible is that it is written in human languages.

 

[syrenn]

I welcome you to believe whatever you want. No problem here. You can believe in any or none of the above. You can believe two men can be married or that pigs can fly for all I care. Whatever floats your boat. Rock on, brother.

LOL.... that is about how i stand too.

Yep. I certainly have my beliefs and you have yours. People have to understand that by others voicing their beliefs it doesn't devalue your own. If it does then you're not really a believer in your own opinion. Thx for your post.

Agreed.

There is not right or wrong in terms of god no god.... There is only man and what he does with himself and the world around him.

 

[syrenn]

Humans provide an ever changing standard.

I don't think that humans provide an ever changing morals. On the fundamental level the human moral is constant, and that is how it ended up in many religions, including Christianity.

Basically all human morals can be deducted from a simple rule:
"Do not impose suffering on other people".

And that rule itself is not divine, it can be derived from the basic common sense -- if you harm others, you can't complain if they respond by harming you.

So that how it goes -- human morals are nothing more than a common sense. And religious morals are accepted only to the extent they do not contradict human morals.

Again.... religious works written by.... men.