CDZ How did Islam fall so far behind?

[Toronado3800]

The best hope for arabs is that they are very intelligent....unfortunately they have been enslaved by islam for generations. Is it possible to change that?


The Devil wants to destroy, and Islam destroys everything that is not in line with their beliefs. Islam enslaves and oppresses. Christianity edifies (builds up), liberates, and makes one free.

Amend that a bit to say, "Some parts of modern splintered and declawed christianity edifies, liberates and helps make people free."

I heard some stories once about some christians (and Catholics, lets be fair). But yeah, 21st century christianity looks better than 21st century islam.

Interesting though, when christianity was 14 centuries old it looked pretty much as terrible as islam did at 13 centuries of age.

Newsflash....we live today in the 21st century. How many do you think gives a rat's ass what islam was like 13 centuries ago. Yet politicians seem not to understand that....as in George Bush trotting around the globe proclaiming Islam is a peaceful religion.

History is just important to me. hopefully the smaller world speeds up their growth.

Of course history is very important....I just do not think any period of Islamic history should be a measuring stick so to speak for the current situation we are confronted with regarding Islamic Jihadists. Though there is much in Islamic history we need to learn--especially how they have never deviated from their desire to spread their religious ideology by any means whatsoever including violence.

I'm using periods of christian history to compare to the Jihadists. My theory is at 1400 years of age christians were pretty terrible things. At 1400 years of age today so are Muslims. Coincidence? I dunno. Religions have growing pains though.

It isn't soo much that I'm defending Islam. I'm just finding perspective.

 

[irosie91]

The best hope for arabs is that they are very intelligent....unfortunately they have been enslaved by islam for generations. Is it possible to change that?


The Devil wants to destroy, and Islam destroys everything that is not in line with their beliefs. Islam enslaves and oppresses. Christianity edifies (builds up), liberates, and makes one free.

Amend that a bit to say, "Some parts of modern splintered and declawed christianity edifies, liberates and helps make people free."

I heard some stories once about some christians (and Catholics, lets be fair). But yeah, 21st century christianity looks better than 21st century islam.

Interesting though, when christianity was 14 centuries old it looked pretty much as terrible as islam did at 13 centuries of age.

Newsflash....we live today in the 21st century. How many do you think gives a rat's ass what islam was like 13 centuries ago. Yet politicians seem not to understand that....as in George Bush trotting around the globe proclaiming Islam is a peaceful religion.

History is just important to me. hopefully the smaller world speeds up their growth.

Of course history is very important....I just do not think any period of Islamic history should be a measuring stick so to speak for the current situation we are confronted with regarding Islamic Jihadists. Though there is much in Islamic history we need to learn--especially how they have never deviated from their desire to spread their religious ideology by any means whatsoever including violence.

I'm using periods of christian history to compare to the Jihadists. My theory is at 1400 years of age christians were pretty terrible things. At 1400 years of age today so are Muslims. Coincidence? I dunno. Religions have growing pains though.

It isn't soo much that I'm defending Islam. I'm just finding perspective.

it is a very tenuous perspective. There is no inherent deficiency in the
ARAB BRAIN.

 

[Toronado3800]

Amend that a bit to say, "Some parts of modern splintered and declawed christianity edifies, liberates and helps make people free."

I heard some stories once about some christians (and Catholics, lets be fair). But yeah, 21st century christianity looks better than 21st century islam.

Interesting though, when christianity was 14 centuries old it looked pretty much as terrible as islam did at 13 centuries of age.

Newsflash....we live today in the 21st century. How many do you think gives a rat's ass what islam was like 13 centuries ago. Yet politicians seem not to understand that....as in George Bush trotting around the globe proclaiming Islam is a peaceful religion.

History is just important to me. hopefully the smaller world speeds up their growth.

Of course history is very important....I just do not think any period of Islamic history should be a measuring stick so to speak for the current situation we are confronted with regarding Islamic Jihadists. Though there is much in Islamic history we need to learn--especially how they have never deviated from their desire to spread their religious ideology by any means whatsoever including violence.

I'm using periods of christian history to compare to the Jihadists. My theory is at 1400 years of age christians were pretty terrible things. At 1400 years of age today so are Muslims. Coincidence? I dunno. Religions have growing pains though.

It isn't soo much that I'm defending Islam. I'm just finding perspective.

it is a very tenuous perspective. There is no inherent deficiency in the
ARAB BRAIN.

I don't mean to say there is an inherent deficiency in the Arab Brain.....Just that by coincidence both christianity and islam are at similar states at a similar age.

Maybe one will grow up and at 1940 years of age still have factions left trying to exterminate the jews and enslave the blacks.

Snarkiness aside, I'm not defending islam or jihadists. I'm just giving perspective.

 

[bodecea]

Islam isn't even a religion. It's a murderous mycoginistic death cult and that's they way the males in the cult like it.

Can say the same about all patriarchal religions.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Newsflash....we live today in the 21st century. How many do you think gives a rat's ass what islam was like 13 centuries ago. Yet politicians seem not to understand that....as in George Bush trotting around the globe proclaiming Islam is a peaceful religion.

History is just important to me. hopefully the smaller world speeds up their growth.

Of course history is very important....I just do not think any period of Islamic history should be a measuring stick so to speak for the current situation we are confronted with regarding Islamic Jihadists. Though there is much in Islamic history we need to learn--especially how they have never deviated from their desire to spread their religious ideology by any means whatsoever including violence.

I'm using periods of christian history to compare to the Jihadists. My theory is at 1400 years of age christians were pretty terrible things. At 1400 years of age today so are Muslims. Coincidence? I dunno. Religions have growing pains though.

It isn't soo much that I'm defending Islam. I'm just finding perspective.

it is a very tenuous perspective. There is no inherent deficiency in the
ARAB BRAIN.

I don't mean to say there is an inherent deficiency in the Arab Brain.....Just that by coincidence both christianity and islam are at similar states at a similar age.

Maybe one will grow up and at 1940 years of age still have factions left trying to exterminate the jews and enslave the blacks.

Snarkiness aside, I'm not defending islam or jihadists. I'm just giving perspective.

It isn't perspective you are offering, merely sophistry.

Good grief, it's not as if Islam and Christianity are from two different planets. The Islamic world has had every opportunity to modernize along with everybody else living concurrently. The reason they haven't is......... wait for it folks ...........

Islam.

 

[Toronado3800]

History is just important to me. hopefully the smaller world speeds up their growth.

Of course history is very important....I just do not think any period of Islamic history should be a measuring stick so to speak for the current situation we are confronted with regarding Islamic Jihadists. Though there is much in Islamic history we need to learn--especially how they have never deviated from their desire to spread their religious ideology by any means whatsoever including violence.

I'm using periods of christian history to compare to the Jihadists. My theory is at 1400 years of age christians were pretty terrible things. At 1400 years of age today so are Muslims. Coincidence? I dunno. Religions have growing pains though.

It isn't soo much that I'm defending Islam. I'm just finding perspective.

it is a very tenuous perspective. There is no inherent deficiency in the
ARAB BRAIN.

I don't mean to say there is an inherent deficiency in the Arab Brain.....Just that by coincidence both christianity and islam are at similar states at a similar age.

Maybe one will grow up and at 1940 years of age still have factions left trying to exterminate the jews and enslave the blacks.

Snarkiness aside, I'm not defending islam or jihadists. I'm just giving perspective.

It isn't perspective you are offering, merely sophistry.

Good grief, it's not as if Islam and Christianity are from two different planets. The Islamic world has had every opportunity to modernize along with everybody else living concurrently. The reason they haven't is......... wait for it folks ...........

Islam.

Perhaps they are from the same planet and maturing just as fast as the christians?

One would hope the internet and this relatively smaller world of ours would speed them up.

Then again until the 101st Airborne stepped in good modern christians did not let their modern samaratins into the same schools in part of this country.

 

[Sunni Man]

I always get a laugh when I hear people commenting about how far behind Islam is compared to modern western countries and Christianity.

Yet only 70+ years ago, (WWll) catholic Italy, and protestant England, and christian Germany, and the predominantly christian America, where killing and bombing each other by the tens of millions.

Plus there was the rounding up of the Jews thing. ....

 

[irosie91]

Newsflash....we live today in the 21st century. How many do you think gives a rat's ass what islam was like 13 centuries ago. Yet politicians seem not to understand that....as in George Bush trotting around the globe proclaiming Islam is a peaceful religion.

History is just important to me. hopefully the smaller world speeds up their growth.

Of course history is very important....I just do not think any period of Islamic history should be a measuring stick so to speak for the current situation we are confronted with regarding Islamic Jihadists. Though there is much in Islamic history we need to learn--especially how they have never deviated from their desire to spread their religious ideology by any means whatsoever including violence.

I'm using periods of christian history to compare to the Jihadists. My theory is at 1400 years of age christians were pretty terrible things. At 1400 years of age today so are Muslims. Coincidence? I dunno. Religions have growing pains though.

It isn't soo much that I'm defending Islam. I'm just finding perspective.

it is a very tenuous perspective. There is no inherent deficiency in the
ARAB BRAIN.

I don't mean to say there is an inherent deficiency in the Arab Brain.....Just that by coincidence both christianity and islam are at similar states at a similar age.

Maybe one will grow up and at 1940 years of age still have factions left trying to exterminate the jews and enslave the blacks.

Snarkiness aside, I'm not defending islam or jihadists. I'm just giving perspective.

I understand that but I believe that your perspective is incorrect. ALL
THIS TIME-----the "muslim world" has been in COMPLETE communication
with the ....uhm.....civilized world. The whole billion and one half did not
emerge from under rocks two weeks ago. There is no reason for a kind
of relative "backwardness" You should be aware that from the muslim
POV-----it is YOU who is the barbarian

 

[Moonglow]

The Middle East was doing fine until the cold war powers decided to bomb it into the stone age for the last 70 years.

The Muslims were far behind before bombers were invented.

 

[TheGreenHornet]

History is just important to me. hopefully the smaller world speeds up their growth.

Of course history is very important....I just do not think any period of Islamic history should be a measuring stick so to speak for the current situation we are confronted with regarding Islamic Jihadists. Though there is much in Islamic history we need to learn--especially how they have never deviated from their desire to spread their religious ideology by any means whatsoever including violence.

I'm using periods of christian history to compare to the Jihadists. My theory is at 1400 years of age christians were pretty terrible things. At 1400 years of age today so are Muslims. Coincidence? I dunno. Religions have growing pains though.

It isn't soo much that I'm defending Islam. I'm just finding perspective.

it is a very tenuous perspective. There is no inherent deficiency in the
ARAB BRAIN.

I don't mean to say there is an inherent deficiency in the Arab Brain.....Just that by coincidence both christianity and islam are at similar states at a similar age.

Maybe one will grow up and at 1940 years of age still have factions left trying to exterminate the jews and enslave the blacks.

Snarkiness aside, I'm not defending islam or jihadists. I'm just giving perspective.

It isn't perspective you are offering, merely sophistry.

Good grief, it's not as if Islam and Christianity are from two different planets. The Islamic world has had every opportunity to modernize along with everybody else living concurrently. The reason they haven't is......... wait for it folks ...........

Islam.

Exactly.....and it is outrageous how so many liberals constantly want to make excuses for them. A reasonable person would have thought that after 9/11 they would wake up....not for long. It appears to me liberals have little or no concept of self-defense. Their views are so skewed that it is difficult to understand exactly how they got so messed up. A lot of it of course has to do with the public schools, the mass media and hollywood....the b.s. they spew has coinfused oh so many.

 

[TheGreenHornet]

The Middle East was doing fine until the cold war powers decided to bomb it into the stone age for the last 70 years.

The Muslims were far behind before bombers were invented.

You are not right that often.....everyone should stand up and applaud you for getting this one right.

 

[TheGreenHornet]

I always get a laugh when I hear people commenting about how far behind Islam is compared to modern western countries and Christianity.

Yet only 70+ years ago, (WWll) catholic Italy, and protestant England, and christian Germany, and the predominantly christian America, where killing and bombing each other by the tens of millions.

Plus there was the rounding up of the Jews thing. ....

All nations throughout history have fought wars because human beings basically are evil. I could talk about how Catholic Priests are responsible for all the Jew Hatred in Europe, I could talk about how nazism gained control of Germany, and I could talk about the stupidity of the English, and I could talk about how moronic American Liberals are, etc.etc. and so on and so forth..........but it all comes down to this: Evil dominates this Earth....sometimes the good guys do win...but not always.

Some of us understand that until the return of the
Mashiach evil will retain the upper hand on Earth.

But anyhow.........perhaps you would be willing to explain why muslims have such hatred for Jews.....now of course I know not all muslims are like that....just like not all Germans were like that but we remember what happened there. I have known some very intelligent muslims...well educated muslims...with good jobs...every single one I have known let it be known quickly...they despise Jews. They had no qualms about it...they cannot understand why everyone does not hate Jews.

 

[TheGreenHornet]

The best hope for arabs is that they are very intelligent....unfortunately they have been enslaved by islam for generations. Is it possible to change that?


The Devil wants to destroy, and Islam destroys everything that is not in line with their beliefs. Islam enslaves and oppresses. Christianity edifies (builds up), liberates, and makes one free.

Amend that a bit to say, "Some parts of modern splintered and declawed christianity edifies, liberates and helps make people free."

I heard some stories once about some christians (and Catholics, lets be fair). But yeah, 21st century christianity looks better than 21st century islam.

Interesting though, when christianity was 14 centuries old it looked pretty much as terrible as islam did at 13 centuries of age.

Newsflash....we live today in the 21st century. How many do you think gives a rat's ass what islam was like 13 centuries ago. Yet politicians seem not to understand that....as in George Bush trotting around the globe proclaiming Islam is a peaceful religion.

History is just important to me. hopefully the smaller world speeds up their growth.

Of course history is very important....I just do not think any period of Islamic history should be a measuring stick so to speak for the current situation we are confronted with regarding Islamic Jihadists. Though there is much in Islamic history we need to learn--especially how they have never deviated from their desire to spread their religious ideology by any means whatsoever including violence.

I'm using periods of christian history to compare to the Jihadists. My theory is at 1400 years of age christians were pretty terrible things. At 1400 years of age today so are Muslims. Coincidence? I dunno. Religions have growing pains though.

It isn't soo much that I'm defending Islam. I'm just finding perspective.

The first mistake you have made is to try and lump all Christians together and for that muslims as well....that in and of itself will prevent you from seeing the truth.

Now first of all you need to devote some time to studying the history of Christianity.....and if you do and if you are rational you will realize that Catholicism does not follow the Holy Scriptures.....Catholics are notorious for not reading the Bible....I say that to say this...any Church that does not follow the Holy Scriptures is not a True Christian Church...and you will see if you read the real history....how the Catholic Church has persecuted True Christians throughout its history.

There are some good points regarding Islam....and I have pointed out some of them...but there is only one thing you need to really understand about Islam....they (the leaders)believe in spreading their religion by violence if need be. They have not deviated from that from day one.

Yet, there are many good muslims who do not believe in doing that....so everything is much more complicated than most realize. The truth does not come easy.

 

[Sunni Man]

There are some good points regarding Islam....and I have pointed out some of them...but there is only one thing you need to really understand about Islam....they believe in spreading their religion by violence if need be. They have not deviated from that from day one.

Actually, that is partially a misnomer.

Islam was spread throughout large parts of Asia by muslim merchants and traders. In fact, Indonesia for example, is the largest Muslim population country in the world. ....

 

[Toronado3800]

The Middle East was doing fine until the cold war powers decided to bomb it into the stone age for the last 70 years.

The Muslims were far behind before bombers were invented.

I think even this wasn't true some centuries. The 800 year old christian world was a pretty terrible place.

 

[TheGreenHornet]

There are some good points regarding Islam....and I have pointed out some of them...but there is only one thing you need to really understand about Islam....they believe in spreading their religion by violence if need be. They have not deviated from that from day one.

Actually, that is partially a misnomer.

Islam was spread throughout large parts of Asia by muslim merchants and traders. In fact, Indonesia for example, is the largest Muslim population country in the world. ....

I did say Islam was always spread by the sword.

Quran (9:5) "But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them..."

The Quran contains at least 109 verses that speak of war with nonbelievers, usually on the basis of their status as non-Muslims. Some are quite graphic, with commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding. Muslims who do not join the fight are called'hypocrites' and warned that Allah will send them to Hell if they do not join the slaughter

 

[Sunni Man]

I did say Islam was always spread by the sword.

Quran (9:5) "But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them..."

This verse was given when the Muslims where involved in a specific war during that time period. .....

 

[TheGreenHornet]

I did say Islam was always spread by the sword.

Quran (9:5) "But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them..."

This verse was given when the Muslims where involved in a specific war during that time period. .....

Unlike nearly all of the Old Testament verses of violence, most verses of violence in the Quran are open-ended, meaning that they are not necessarily restrained by historical context contained in the surrounding text (although many Muslims choose to think of them that way). They are part of the eternal, unchanging word of Allah, and just as relevant or subject to interpretation as anything else in the Quran.

What Ahlam Tamimi
Teaches Us about Islam
You learn more from what people do
or don't do than from what they say
"If Islam were truly against killing, one could hardly imagine a scenario more tailored to evoke Muslim outrage than unrepentant child killers literally receiving the royal treatment at Islam's holiest site..."

What Ahlam Tamimi Teaches Us about Islam

 

[Sunni Man]

The Quran contains at least 109 verses that speak of war with nonbelievers, usually on the basis of their status as non-Muslims. Some are quite graphic, with commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding. Muslims who do not join the fight are called 'hypocrites' and warned that Allah will send them to Hell if they do not join the slaughter

The thing to remember is those verses were given when Muslims were a very small group of believers, and they were surrounded by enemies who wanted to stamp out this new religion and kill all the members.

They were fighting for their survival everyday against almost impossible odds. Plus there were traitors and spies within their group. People who only pretended to believe in the cause (hypocrites) who made up excuses why they couldn't fight in the battles.

It was basically guerrilla warfare and all that entails. ....

 

[TheGreenHornet]

The Quran contains at least 109 verses that speak of war with nonbelievers, usually on the basis of their status as non-Muslims. Some are quite graphic, with commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding. Muslims who do not join the fight are called 'hypocrites' and warned that Allah will send them to Hell if they do not join the slaughter

The thing to remember is those verses were given when Muslims were a very small group of believers, and they were surrounded by enemies who wanted to stamp out this new religion and kill all the members.

They were fighting for their survival everyday against almost impossible odds. Plus there were traitors and spies within their group. People who only pretended to believe in the cause (hypocrites) who made up excuses why they couldn't fight in the battles.

It was basically guerrilla warfare and all that entails. ....

'The context of violent passages is more ambiguous than might be expected of a perfect book from a loving God. Most contemporary Muslims exercise a personal choice to interpret their holy book's call to arms according to their own moral preconceptions about justifiable violence. Islam's apologists cater to these preferences with tenuous arguments that gloss over historical fact and generally don't stand up to scrutiny. Still, it is important to note that the problem is not bad people, but bad ideology.

Unfortunately, there are very few verses of tolerance and peace to balance out those calling for nonbelievers to be fought and subdued until they either accept humiliation, convert to Islam, or are killed. Muhammad's own martial legacy, along with the remarkable emphasis on violence found in the Quran, have produced a trail of blood and tears across world history.'

The Quran's Verses of Violence