How Can Anyone Think The US Military Is Doing a Good Job?

[pegwinn]

IRT post number 74: You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Gunny again

No military operation is ever flawless, Abu Ghraib was a PR disaster that was to be expected, put insufficiently trained people in a stress situation without clear orders and you invite disaster. They were not insufficiently trained. They had all the training you need to handle POW's and confinement. The SOP's across the service lines are very similar. The failure was in the leadership. That was addressed, dealt with, and disposed of. It is not our fault that the media is a "Man bites dog" oriented corruption.


In addition, sending troops to do actual counter insurgency who were insufficiently trained for it was bad too (propably toss up between politicians and military leadership). The Marines for sure, and the Army I would bet, were up to the task. It's not like we haven't done small unit MOUT ops before. The issue was the politically motivated ROES that came down after the initial takedown.

I am unsure who got the brilliant idea of not guarding museums and hospitals after the takeover (instead the Oil ministery was guarded) but that could potentially be attributed to politicians too.

But I agree that the biggest mistakes were political, in that order:
-Not having enough troops to begin with, according to both Nato and Soviet doctrine you need about 10 soldiers per partisan/insurgent, well maybe Rumsfeld assumed there would not be insurgents -.- .
-Disbanding the Iraki army, largely disbanding the police force. (Wehrmacht units were working for the British until early 1946, until Stalin got a complete fit because of it)
-Not seperating the different religious groups (although this would have been difficult to do)
-Having went in with a Casus Belli now commonly seen as faked.

Gunny you remind me of when the Vietnamese Genreral and the American General meet after the Vietnam War at a conference.

The American General said "you know we never lost a major engagement during the whole war"

And the Vietnam General retorted, "that's totally Irrelevant, because we won the war"!

And he is right. Amazing what can be accomplished when the collective will of the military and political is focused towards one objective. See the utter destruction of the Axis for a historical reference. Your insinuation that the .mil was somehow at fault for the political shackles is beneath contempt.

 

[Mr. President]

Gunny you remind me of when the Vietnamese Genreral and the American General meet after the Vietnam War at a conference.

The American General said "you know we never lost a major engagement during the whole war"

And the Vietnam General retorted, "that's totally Irrelevant, because we won the war"!

We didn't even lose vietnam. Are you convinced that the US military could not on a whim have destroyed that whole country?

 

[Sunni Man]

We didn't even lose vietnam.

Really?

Seems like I remember the Hueys taking people off of the roof of the US Embassy as we high tailed it out of the country!!

I don't remember any "Victory over Vietnam" parades?

Do you????

 

[Mr. President]

Hell I dont remember any vietnam parades period. We were playing politics with M16's in vietnam. If we had devoted the US military to the destruction of that country we would have destroyed them. But because each offensive move had to be ok'd by washington and was in accordance with "talks" the military's hands were tied. The reason we never lost a major engagement is because once the orders to take over by an means neccessary came down the US military won. ROE changed with each battle that is what hendered the US military not the oppositions military might.

 

[Sunni Man]

Vietnam and Iraq are almost identical situations.

Both are ancient cultures and people who are very nationalistic.

They will never accept being occupied and have a foriegn puppet government rule them.

In the end, we will leave Iraq and the people will reinstate their culture, laws, and lifestyle.

Just like Vietnam, the Iraq war will be for Nothing.

 

[Mr. President]

Thank you for the comparative essay and avoiding every factual comment I made in an attempt for an educated post. However, the Iraq war wasn't for nothing and seeing as how you have a bias opinion towards the occupation in Iraq I can't really see any validation of your opinion as neccessary. Furthermore Iraq and Vietnam were completely different seeing as the invasion of Iraq was in the interest of the United States the invasion of Vietnam was not.

 

[Sunni Man]

the invasion of Iraq was in the interest of the United States

I can't think of a single benifit the United States has reaped from the invasion and occupation of Iraq?

 

[Neubarth]

We didn't even lose vietnam. Are you convinced that the US military could not on a whim have destroyed that whole country?

The reality is that there is "Total War" and then there is "something else."

the "something else" is hard to define and harder even still to determine if there is a victor.

The United States needs at present to use the Total War capacity to destroy Iran. We won't do it, and that will allow Iran to use "something else" on the US. I caution everybody that Iran had declared war on the United States with over ten proclamations of war in various Fatwah's. It is time that we address these Fatwahs.

 

[Sunni Man]

I caution everybody that Iran had declared war on the United States with over ten proclamations of war in various Fatwah's. It is time that we address these Fatwahs.

Please provide evidence of these Fatwah's from the current Iranian government.

Thank You

 

[Neubarth]

Mind you, I have no problem with Total War. It is a very effective politial statement.

 

[Neubarth]

Please provide evidence of these Fatwah's from the current Iranian government.

Thank You

A foolish request. All you need to do is read the translations of the numerous speeches given before the Iranian "congress."


Of course, then, you would say that was just grandstanding by Iranian mullahs and various leaders like Ahmedinejad. Fact remains that the words were spoken and applauded. In their insane culture, a proclamation of jihad in a religious edict either written or spoken have the effect of law.

You should know that if you claim to be a Sunni as opposed to a Shitti.

 

[Sunni Man]

A foolish request. All you need to do is read the translations of the numerous speeches given before the Iranian "congress."

Of course, then, you would say that was just grandstanding by Iranian mullahs and various leaders like Ahmedinejad. Fact remains that the words were spoken and applauded. In their insane culture, a proclamation of jihad in a religious edict either written or spoken have the effect of law.

Rev. Wright, Louis Farrakan, and David Duke, are also applauded by some people here in the US.

Does that make it official government policy?


Basically, you are just running your mouth with zero credible evidence.

 

[Neubarth]

Rev. Wright, Louis Farrakan, and David Duke, are also applauded by some people here in the US.

Does that make it official government policy?


Basically, you are just running your mouth with zero credible evidence.

The CIA has every political speech in Iran catalogued. When the leadership of a country brags that they are going to destroy the West, it should be listened to.

Radical Islam declared war on the United States and the Western Democracies about thirty years ago. Numerous Radical Islamic leaders like Osama Bin Ladin have reaffirmed those Fatwas and continued the murder of thousands of innocents.

Iran has also taken their War Against the West to other democracies and blown up embassies there. Take for instance the bombing of the Israeli Embassy in Argentina and the bombing of a Catholic elementary school and a Jewish fellowship hall in Buenos Aires.

Argentina charged Iran with those bombings and numerous murders of Jewish men and women and children in South America. Do you think we should just sit back and ignore their atrocities? How about the recent bombing outside of the American Embassy in Yemen. I wonder who funded that?

The World ignored Hitler when in Mein Kampf he declared that he was going to attack Russia and take the Ukraine as the future German breadbasket. He said he was going to do it, put it in writing and then delivered on his promise. And all the world wondered when Hitler started to deliver on his promises. Just like Iran he promised to deal with the "Jewish problem." What did the world think he was going to do?

Iran has promised to destroy the United States in numerous fatwas, and has set out to do it exactly as they have stated. The Radical Islamic regime of Iran has been blowing things up all around the world ever since. Most any Islamic bombing is Iranian funded. Iran has promised to kill all the Jews. What does the world think they are going to do?

We need to disarm that evil country and divide it up among the diverse ethnic groups that live there, and stop the murder of those who are not Radical Islamic and Persian. Do you know what the Bahai population of Iran was in 1978? Do you know what it is now? Do you know where their bodies are? Do you even care? Iran has killed millions of Jews over the past 15 centuries. Does anybody in the world care?

Please also note, it is not I who wrote the Bible. I only tell you what it says, but you can read it for yourself. You appear to have an argument with what is written in Revelation and the prophecies of Ezekiel, Daniel, Isiah and Matthew. You have your right to disagree or even hate the Bible.

I wasn't around when the Bible was written. The prophecies are there. Most were written over two thousand years ago, long before Muhammed was born. The Bible says that the countries of northern Africa, eastern Africa, southwestern Asia (the Kings of the East) and the countries surrounding Israel will attack the reborn state of Israel at a time called the Later Days. These countries will be following the teachings of somebody called the False Prophet who will unify these countries with a false religion called Mystery Babylon. This attack on Israel will occur within one generation of the rebirth of Israel.

The Radical Islamics know all about these prophecies. That is the reason why they have always tried to kill Jews all over the world during the past 1500 years. They were instructed in this ritual throat slitting slaughter of Jews by their Prophet, Mohammed (mhbeihf).

As regards Islam and Radical Islam, they are two different things. Radical Islam which you appear to not understand is a religion of hate and murder and throat slitting. Radical Islam was taught by Mohammed (mhbeihf) to the men who followed him. To him it was ok to slit the throats of anybody he disagreed with and subsequently to take their possessions. Mohammed (mhbeihf) taught his Radical Islamic followers that women were a possession, something that you could take and demand sex from or beat them. He showed his followers this by then doing as he instructed. Such behavior is now codified in Islam.

I have never slit anybody's throat and have no desire to do so. Nor do I desire to kill anybody, but I strongly advocate for the total destruction of the Nuclear Bomb program in Iran. It is better that we blow it up now then they blow US up later. To destroy all of those deep underground centrifuge sites, it will take a nuclear bunker buster. That detonation can be limited to a small defined area. A tactical nuclear weapon need not be a population killer, but it can remove a county's ability to kill in great numbers like Iran hopes to do. I have posted this many times. There is no fanaticism in that proposal. It is just common sense.

Remember according to the teaching of Radical Islam it is OK to tell lies to advance the cause of Islam and the Moon God, Allah. The speeches made in Iran as regards the use of Nuclear bombs are denied publically for International propaganda purposes. Still, they tell their people that they will destroy the West. (Hitler and the Ukraine and Iran and the West. Would you have doubted Hitler?)

The Bible says what it says. The Koran totally contradicts the Bible. Either one is true and the other is false or vice versa. I do not see one prophecy in the Koran that has come true. Yet, I have seen thousands of prophecies in the Bible that have come true. Consequently, I tend to believe the Bible. Remember, you are free to believe what you want to believe.

 

[Sunni Man]

I have seen the same idiotic non sense before in the words of Robert Spencer, Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, and other rabid Islamophobes.

No real substance. Just alot of hysteria to inflame gulible people.

 

[Neubarth]

I have seen the same idiotic non sense before in the words of Robert Spencer, Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, and other rabid Islamophobes.

No real substance. Just alot of hysteria to inflame gulible people.

It is a shame that you have to resort to name calling. And I suppose you are going to deny all of the horrific world wide bombings and claim that they never happened. Go ask the people of Argentina. Go ask the bus riders in England or the train riders in Spain, or the others who have been victims of Iranian funded terrorism.

The Iranians have made their promises, some of which have been broadcast on American television, but most Americans are ignorant of all the funding for terror that Iran is responsible for.

Osama bin Ladin received over half of his funding for 9/11 from Iran. I can not prove it with any Internet link, but the CIA can and will if Obama decides to carry this war on terror to its roots. Dubya (Dumbest president in American history) got sidetracked and attacked Iraq instead of Iran. I think he was trying to avenge the plot to kill his father when he went to a ceremony in Kuwait after his presidency. Politics should be above revenge and center on national interests.

 

[Sunni Man]

Osama bin Ladin received over half of his funding for 9/11 from Iran. I can not prove it,

Then why make the statement as though it is a fact?

 

[Mr. President]

I can't think of a single benifit the United States has reaped from the invasion and occupation of Iraq?

Far less terrorists and far less terrorist funding from the Iraqi Regime. As well as a semi stable democratic government in Iraq. Thus one less war ground in the middle east.

 

[Sunni Man]

Far less terrorists and far less terrorist funding from the Iraqi Regime. As well as a semi stable democratic government in Iraq. Thus one less war ground in the middle east.

That is soo weak.

When did Iraq fund terrorists?

One less war ground? Iraq? Surely you jest!!

Semi democratic. Yes, that is untill we leave.

 

[Neubarth]

Then why make the statement as though it is a fact?

Because I have read the facts, and know where the funding is coming from. Those speeches in Iran and the funding coming from Iran are linked. Hitler's speeches and his actions were linked, too.

Yet, all the world wondered when he delivered as he promised he would.

When Ahmedinejad promises to kill all the Jews, Beieve him! He fully intends to do just that regardless of how many truths are presented to him about the reality of the Jews in world history. He claims the Bible is a lie and that the Jews never lived in Canaan. He is whacho, but so was Hitler. Men like that need to be feared for what they can do.

 

[Neubarth]

That is soo weak.

When did Iraq fund terrorists?

One less war ground? Iraq? Surely you jest!!

Semi democratic. Yes, that is untill we leave.

Ironically, you and I are in agreement on this point. Can I buy you a beer?