Hello! I am The Progressive Patriot!

Discussion in 'Introduce Yourself' started by TheProgressivePatriot, Jun 22, 2015.

  1. TheProgressivePatriot
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    TheProgressivePatriot Gold Member

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    Just because you seem to have some ability to string words together and for a sentence, it does not mean that it makes any sense. Top down control? Really. That would only be true if, by top down control you mean all forms of government regulation of business and finances, all environmental regulation, all civil rights and hate crimes legislation and all social entitlement programs. Am I right? Admit it. That is what you want. To do away with all of that. Basically anarchy. No government at all.

    And if we did have, THEN we would have real top down control. Top down control of the economy by the corporation Top down control of the government by the wealthy who will sure as shit own it .And top down control of morality by the religious right.

    THINK ABOUT what you are advocating. Government for and by the rich straight white people. How the hell is that constitutional?

    As far as individual freedom goes, where the hell does that constitutional say that anyone has unlimited, unconditional freedom to do whatever they want, whenever they want and to whoever they want with no accountability. Now what you’re advocating is beyond anarchy. It’s not even civilization. Even primitive societies have, at minimum, social and cultural controls, as well as tribal rules and customs. You sound like a two year old who just wants to have what you want, when you want it and consequences be damned and to hell with anyone who comes out on the short end. Anyone who wants that is just stupid, and anyone who does not believe that it would happen if government there to prevent it is even more stupid..
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2015
  2. emilynghiem
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    emilynghiem Constitutionalist / Universalist Supporting Member

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    A. Dear @Uncensored the "Left" you see in public, the wealthy politicrats
    are generally made fun of and despised as much by the REAL left.

    The Green Progressives are generally forced to lead their own movements and programs
    independently because the Democrat Party is so hijacked by politicians and corporate interests,
    nobody can get much of anything past that. Only electing key people who can play the Media
    and if you don't follow the party line, there is no room for input much less discussion.

    We are probably against the same problems plaguing BOTH major parties,
    and then affecting everyone else.

    I personally cannot stand what the Clintons and now Obama have done
    to sabotage the work of the grassroots constituents trying to build from the ground up
    but being forced to compete with wealthy politicians getting in bed with corporate developers and interests
    to tear down and hijack everything for power.

    We are sick of it, too!

    I think we'd have to come up with a NAME for the "Commercialized Left" or
    the Politicized Left that abuses the Party to push agenda for elections and talking points to tear down others.
    I hear nothing but complaints from the Right about "career politicians"
    pushing all the right buttons to get elected, and then going along with 'whatever"
    is convenient to float in office, and not doing any real work. So sounds like the same mess
    but in stereo, left and right.

    Whoever is egging that on should stop, or you can't tell the difference
    between the real Pitbulls and the Owners and who is really behind the attacks.

    B. The real activists doing the work, guess what, you won't likely see in the media.

    You would have to go out in the field to find the Green Progressives working with
    the Libertarian Independents on issues of sustainable self-govt that the Media won't cover.

    How can they? It doesn't fit into a "simplified" Left-vs.-Right sound byte.

    So the Media cannot explain real solutions that require longterm collaboration
    and careful economic and human resources planning to manage that level of infrastructure
    and coordinating people and programs to make something actually work!!1

    The solutions we want to be "spoonfed" through the media as easy fixes
    aren't that easy in real life. Just be "prochoice" and outvote the "prolife"
    or just be "progun" and outvote the "pro gun control". That's all the Media can tell us.

    It's like wanting Hollywood to sell us the happy ending we want to cram
    in a 2 hour script, when in real life, success can take 20-30 years to establish
    a program and 50 more to make it sustainable and replicable where it is stable.

    So what you see in the Media is the fake Hollywood romance
    when in real life, to make a real marriage work isn't pretty at all.

    There's a lot of fighting and struggling to work things out for the longterm.

    Sorry @Uncensored but if you go by what you see in the Media
    that's like thinking all people are romanticized like Superman or Wonder Woman
    or the Witch in the Wizard of Oz, or the Grinch. We like to simplify
    things "so we can make sense of our world"
    but in real life, people and political reality are not simple caricatures we can label and be done with it.

    It takes a lot more work that that. A lot more.
    You can't just label entire groups
    to be "all good" or "all bad."

    Whatever people are doing, each group is ultimately responsible for
    fixing and governing their own community and programs, so we need to work with
    ALL of them to make sure they cover the membership they are responsible for representing.

    Its like a whole ecosystem where each person and group
    plays a special role, and we need to coordinate and not work at cross purposes.

    It's not so simple as labeling an entire group for certain problems,
    blaming and rejecting, and thinking you are done. We still have to deal with the problems
    that divide us and cost all taxpayers and public more money if these aren't solved,
    so labeling and rejecting each other makes it that much harder to find solutions.

    Believe me, as much as I cannot stand the elitists who profit so much off conflicts
    and problems, we still have to work with the people running the business and legal
    monopolies, including the media conglomerates, to get solutions going for the longterm.

    There is not a single person or group on the planet that isn't needed
    to share in responsibilities for fixing the problems we have today.

    That's reality.
     
  3. emilynghiem
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    emilynghiem Constitutionalist / Universalist Supporting Member

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    Dear TheProgressivePatriot and Uncensored2008
    What if we held both citizens, govt AND corporations/collective institutions
    to respect the SAME Constitutional standards of
    * due process and democratic right to petition to redress grievances
    * limits and separation of powers
    * checks and balances
    * equal inclusion, representation, defense, and protection of the laws
    * consent of the governed in resolving conflicts instead of bullying by exclusion or coercion

    Can't we balance both freedom and responsibility not to abuse
    our rights and freedoms where we start to infringe on the equal protection of others?

    I see that neither the Right wants the Left abusing govt to impose agenda, political
    beliefs and call it Constitutional Govt as long as it passes,
    nor does the Left want the Right abusing the Constitution to justify
    deregulating to the point where Corporate interests go unchecked.

    The problem brought out by the Greens is the lack of check on
    Corporations with both Personhood as individuals claiming civil rights
    and collective influence on the same level as Govt but without the checks and balances!

    So if we were to address the Corporate abuses of collective influence,
    authority and resources (especially Courts and buying lawyers and judges in a legislative lobby
    that monopolizes all govt if all decisions are controlled by lawyers and who sues or wins in court)
    then that would address
    * the Media
    * the religious organizations and political parties
    * the corporate lobbies and collective monopolies
    * the legal and judicial monopoly
    * the banking, financial and credit system and deals going on for politics there

    Isn't that the problem? If collective Corporations have as much influence and power
    as govts do, but without any Constitutional checks such as requiring due process, right to petition,
    and not just "doing whatever they want until someone sues and WINS to make them stop by force of law or court order"

    Why not address that source of "imbalance of power without check by the people"
    and see how many other areas would be cleared up at the same time?
     
  4. Uncensored2008
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    Uncensored2008 Libertarian Radical Supporting Member

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    That you disagree is not the same as the sentence not making sense. My words were perfectly understandable to a reasonably intelligent person, and in fact you understand them fully.

    In your arrogance, you believe that belittling is a valid form of argumentation, it is not, it is logical fallacy.


    Leftism concentrates power in the hands of the central authority. In the case of the democrats, this means shifting of power and responsibility away from local and state government and into the hands of the federal government. Even on smaller scales, the desire to concentrate power into a central, ruling body is ever-present.

    Take the Peoples Republic of California, for instance. It is fully in the hands of the radical left, with no viable opposition from capitalists or civil libertarians at any level.

    So what have to socialist overlords in the state done? Centralized, of course. In pursuing the collectivist dream, the socialist overlords have gone to war against suburban housing. Following the lead of the Soviet Central planners, Sacramento has stripped localities of the power to zone, in an effort to force an unwilling populace into densely populated urban centers. By denying cities the ability to permit new housing in suburbs, the Soviet Central planners seek to force people into the large cities, to renting apartments from landlords, to break the independence of property ownership.

    This is an example of top down control - which is a universal feature leftism - the absolute belief of any leftist is that they are FAR better suited to manage your life than you are.

    The whole concept of central planners lies at the heart of socialism.

    Top down control by "the corporations" is a bit of retardation socialists like to feed the ignorant fools who buy into the venom spewed by the left.

    How would the "corporations" exert top down control? What power do they have to impose any control? Further, if McDonalds tries to exert control, won't Taco Bell or Burger King move to counter that control as competitors?

    See, you haven't really thought this through, you are just reciting memes from socialist sites with no critical examination on your part.
     
  5. Uncensored2008
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    Uncensored2008 Libertarian Radical Supporting Member

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    Emily, I don't see George Soros or the other powers behind the left "made fun of."

    Further, when the left is ordered to back Barack Obama or Hillary Clinton, the usual toadies will be fanatics in their service.

    Building a coalition while excluding most of the productive segment would make the gaining of power difficult. Ultimately the left seeks power above all else. Identity politics such as the green movement is a manipulation technique, a divide and conquer strategy. The greens ultimately vote for the dims, even as they complain.

    We have spoken before. I am what I claim to be, a Libertarian.

    I support and promote liberty - making me the arch enemy of the left. which seek collectivism and uniformity.

    The left and right have diametrically opposed view for how society should operate.

    The right trusts people, and seeks to let people run their own lives. The left detests people and believes that only strict controls over people will keep them from exploiting the underprivileged.

    The right views individual liberty as the highest good, the left sees empowerment of the group or collective as the greatest good.

    The left and right seek the opposite outcomes. We either can be a land of individual liberty where all are free to do what they will, as long as it causes no direct harm to others. Or we will be a highly managed collective where central planners will place the needs of the environment, social justice, etc. ahead of the liberty of people. We cannot be both.
     
  6. TheProgressivePatriot
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    TheProgressivePatriot Gold Member

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    Sound good to me. What about you, Uncensored?
     
  7. TheProgressivePatriot
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    TheProgressivePatriot Gold Member

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    Any comments on Emilie's ideas
     
  8. Uncensored2008
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    Uncensored2008 Libertarian Radical Supporting Member

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    Quite a few, spelled out in;

    Hello I am The Progressive Patriot Page 11 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
     
  9. emilynghiem
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    emilynghiem Constitutionalist / Universalist Supporting Member

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    Well, if you aren't friends with anyone on the left, you probably aren't listening
    to the KPFT crowd that basically "rolled their eyes" and groaned upon first hearing
    that Obama was going to compete with Clinton for the nomination. Either way, ,, GROOOAAANNN

    Cornell West is one of the few who can actually reach high enough on the radar
    to be cited in the media as criticizing Obama. Most of the left is SILENCED by their own.

    There are more ants than grasshoppers, but unfortunately
    you will see the grasshoppers in the media scaring up all the attention.

    =========================================================================================
    REGARDLESS who votes for what and who is in or out of office,
    Uncensored2008 a truly independent, sustainable govt would not depend on party politics to get this person in or out.

    The point is to own and build and manage business, schools and even prison and health programs
    directly by the grassroots levels and work/train people all the way up to manage cities and states.

    THAT is where people will be empowered equally
    NOT by depending on "who gets elected in which cycle"

    Govt work is CONSTANT around the clock.
    Not every 4 years, not once a session.

    Once you get that we the people have to be the govt we want to be in charge,
    that changes the whole paradigm.

    As for the Productive/Effective people vs. the ones "behind on the learning curve"
    by setting up training programs, then everyone can be helped to move up the scale
    regardless where we stand with social, financial or political development.

    We need to QUIT exploiting the lower educated classes, and set up SELF SUSTAINING
    means oof education and training where they DON'T depend on welfare, govt or charity HANDOUTS.

    If people are going to truly depend on themselves to do right, and not depend on some
    politician in govt fixing things for them while they run up costs doing things wrong,
    the people need to be in charge of those costs by running their own district programs.

     
  10. Dante
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    Dante On leave Supporting Member

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    You totally lost Dante on "rich straight white people"

    If you can't write or speak without using such idiocies you expose yourself as just another garden variety lunatic let loose with a keyboard or speech program
     

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