Health Care Should Be FREE! (In the U.S.)

[Conservative65]

Who is paying the doctors?

The government dickwad. The government. They are single payer health care systems. Who is the single payer? The government.

Where does the government get the money?

Maybe the same place our government does. Despite being over 18 trillion dollars in debt with around 65 trillion dollars worth of unfunded obligations. They pretend it into existance. I will show you a picture of what your money basically is.

View attachment 77005

In other words, those countries fund it from taxes paid by the people you say don't have to pay anything to see a doctor. They've paid yet you think it's free.

There are no, "in other words." Also, the bills are paid for by the taxpayer. And most of them are happy about it. There are shitloads of people in this country who go into bankruptcy or become homeless because they can't pay their medical bills. Do you know how often that happens in countries with free medical coverage? NEVER! Oh, but I forgot. You are the only person why matters.

Sometimes, you need the power of a government to step in and do what needs to be done. For example, I doubt if any private company could have afforded to send people to the moon.

When it comes to MY money, damn right I'm the only one that matters. I have no problem with wanting to keep more of what I earned. If the freeloaders like you think what someone else earned is somehow yours, you shouldn't have problem with the one earning it keeping it for the reason only.

Do you consider space exploration science?

 

[krypto]

Somebody around here probably already did a thread like this. And there was that documentary done about it called "Sicko." But I got quite a few objections out of people with my thread, "College should be free. (for Americans)" I wonder what they will have to say about me saying that health care should be free too. And the worse that may be for insurance companies, the better I like it!

It is in the military, just join up....

Military medicine, just like the VA, is a joke. Also, what do you do if you have a worthless medical degree from TequilaU, Guatemala and still want to move up in the medical field? Just join the military.

 

[krypto]

Just fuck off and die. Do it now!

When you're man enough to back up that demand, do so. Try it, now and fail.

I have already done it. As far as I am concerned, you have both fucked off and died. DONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yet I'm still here treating you like the worthless piece of shit you are.

If you had done it, I wouldn't be here. As far as I'm concerned, you couldn't do it if you wanted to try.

Oh, you have fucked off and died all right. The only reason why you aren't on my ignore list is because your stupidity amuses me.

The only reason you'd put me on your ignore list is because you're a coward.

Or because I'm getting tired of inane insults.

 

[Moonglow]

Somebody around here probably already did a thread like this. And there was that documentary done about it called "Sicko." But I got quite a few objections out of people with my thread, "College should be free. (for Americans)" I wonder what they will have to say about me saying that health care should be free too. And the worse that may be for insurance companies, the better I like it!

It is in the military, just join up....

Military medicine, just like the VA, is a joke. Also, what do you do if you have a worthless medical degree from TequilaU, Guatemala and still want to move up in the medical field? Just join the military.

They can only kill you once....

 

[Conservative65]

When you're man enough to back up that demand, do so. Try it, now and fail.

I have already done it. As far as I am concerned, you have both fucked off and died. DONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yet I'm still here treating you like the worthless piece of shit you are.

If you had done it, I wouldn't be here. As far as I'm concerned, you couldn't do it if you wanted to try.

Oh, you have fucked off and died all right. The only reason why you aren't on my ignore list is because your stupidity amuses me.

The only reason you'd put me on your ignore list is because you're a coward.

Or because I'm getting tired of inane insults.

Because you're a coward. Run, pussy. It's all you are. You have to make excuses to make your cowardly ass feel better.

 

[krypto]

The government dickwad. The government. They are single payer health care systems. Who is the single payer? The government.

Where does the government get the money?

Maybe the same place our government does. Despite being over 18 trillion dollars in debt with around 65 trillion dollars worth of unfunded obligations. They pretend it into existance. I will show you a picture of what your money basically is.

View attachment 77005

In other words, those countries fund it from taxes paid by the people you say don't have to pay anything to see a doctor. They've paid yet you think it's free.

There are no, "in other words." Also, the bills are paid for by the taxpayer. And most of them are happy about it. There are shitloads of people in this country who go into bankruptcy or become homeless because they can't pay their medical bills. Do you know how often that happens in countries with free medical coverage? NEVER! Oh, but I forgot. You are the only person why matters.

Sometimes, you need the power of a government to step in and do what needs to be done. For example, I doubt if any private company could have afforded to send people to the moon.

When it comes to MY money, damn right I'm the only one that matters. I have no problem with wanting to keep more of what I earned. If the freeloaders like you think what someone else earned is somehow yours, you shouldn't have problem with the one earning it keeping it for the reason only.

Do you consider space exploration science?

First, you know absolutely nothing about money. Other than you want to keep as much of it as you can. So what if you were charged a couple hundred extra dollars each year in taxes for free medical coverage. That would mean that you would have around $4.00 less in your pocket each week. Just ask your boss for a $4,00 raise. Problem solved! Then nobody goes into bankruptsy or becomes homeless because they can't afford medical coverage. And if you yourself ever need medical treatment, which you no doubt will someday, you won't have to shove your hand into your pocket and pull out some of that precious money to pay for it.

 

[krypto]

I have already done it. As far as I am concerned, you have both fucked off and died. DONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yet I'm still here treating you like the worthless piece of shit you are.

If you had done it, I wouldn't be here. As far as I'm concerned, you couldn't do it if you wanted to try.

Oh, you have fucked off and died all right. The only reason why you aren't on my ignore list is because your stupidity amuses me.

The only reason you'd put me on your ignore list is because you're a coward.

Or because I'm getting tired of inane insults.

Because you're a coward. Run, pussy. It's all you are. You have to make excuses to make your cowardly ass feel better.

Fuck off queerbait. Welcome to ignore land.

 

[Arianrhod]

Somebody around here probably already did a thread like this. And there was that documentary done about it called "Sicko." But I got quite a few objections out of people with my thread, "College should be free. (for Americans)" I wonder what they will have to say about me saying that health care should be free too. And the worse that may be for insurance companies, the better I like it!

Such a wish is born of extreme ignorance about the most basic facts of economics.

It is not possible for college nor medical care to be free.

It costs money—lots of money—to offer these services. Facilities must be built and maintained, equipment and materials must be provided,and staff must be employed. “Free” does not negate this basic fact; if someone receives these services for “free”, all it really means is that someone else, who is not receiving these services, is being compelled to pay for them.

Maybe someday one of you can explain why Americans pay multiple times more for even the most basic healthcare than people in any other industrialized nation, and that's a Good Thing.

I'm guessing your answer will have something to do with "American exceptionalism."

Nationalized healthcare is American exceptionalism? lol.

No.

So, lessee now: we pay multiple times more for healthcare, and we have nationalized healthcare.

Gee, you stumped me, Mon. Why do we pay more?

Because people like you believe we have "nationalized healthcare."

When you figure out what's actually going on, get back to us.

 

[emilynghiem]

Somebody around here probably already did a thread like this. And there was that documentary done about it called "Sicko." But I got quite a few objections out of people with my thread, "College should be free. (for Americans)" I wonder what they will have to say about me saying that health care should be free too. And the worse that may be for insurance companies, the better I like it!

Dear krypto
As Avatar4321 explained before, since health care requires material goods and services (and also some systems of education unless you have free lectures sponsored at existing sites that don't require any additional overhead) then "making this free" would involve "involuntary servitude" or making people give their labor for free. Now, I would add, there is nothing wrong with freely given charity, that is CHOSEN by the giver. But to demand this through govt by force of law amounts to enslavement, because it relies on "somebody's labor."

Now, if YOU are willing to invest in building a free school or free clinic, YOU can choose to give away your time, labor and investment so you and others can enjoy a so-called "free school or free hospital."
You would in effect be "bartering out" your contributions with others doing the same
(warning: all the free schools and clinics I've known that tried this experiment HAD to have a way of monitoring who was giving in and taking out, or else free loaders would keep taking and burning out the people running it)

What I would add to the model to make this work
1. microlending, or agreements to lend or cover the costs of a student's education or a patient's care
in exchange for paying it back later so the next person can benefit. There is a medical program in Bethesda MD that used to work on this basis: medical education was covered for students who agreed to serve a set amount of years working in public HMO providing services to the public.
For microlending and business training to pay back loans and become independent, here are links to the Grameen Foundation/Grameen Bank and the NACA network for refinancing homes at affordable rates:
Grameen Foundation | Connecting the World's Poor to Their Potential
facebook title

2. independent currency or a barter database to keep track of credits paid in and out
similar to registering for school and having to earn credits to graduate,
why not set up systems of monitoring how much labor people invest in building a school,
or a hospital or housing program, etc. Then you can have credits toward your education.
Why not have work-study programs where some of the work does generate revenue.
See Paul Glover's system of labor-backed currency Introducing HOUR Money

3. if you REALLY REALLY want to go advanced, I would recommend organizing
communities to invest in owning and building around their own schools, clinics, even police and teachers unions to govern their districts as independently as possible, cut the crime rates, and invest the difference in taxes saved into education and health care (instead of paying up to 50K a person per year for prisons) Since the labor and resources needed to PROVIDE education and health care "have to come from somewhere" then the two incentives I would offer to organize such resources are (1) giving people tax breaks for investing or lending capital, or giving people control of management for buying out districts to set this up so all the local taxes go into supporting the services for that district and it is run as a self-sustaining economy and self-governed community. (2) using RICO or related laws to claim "restitution for past crimes, abuses or violations" and setting up the damages and debts owed to people or communities who suffered civil or criminal wrongs to be "paid back" by crediting, reimbursing, investing and/or transferring or selling shares in ownership of districts and programs, so that these become the solutions and corrections to the wrongs done to those people or communities.

This is the closest you may get to providing "free education and health care" by funding facilities and programs instead of wasting billions on prisons to cover only inmates using resources that could cover the greater public.

http://www.houstonprogressive.org
Earned Amnesty
music video for Sustainable Campus converting sweatshop labor to workstudy jobs

Blah blah, blahblahblah, blah fucking blah. Other developed countries have free health care. And free college. None if it is due to "involuntary servitude." At least, not in a general sense. Most of any society that has ever existed is based on involuntary servitude. (But especially our dog eat dog capitalist system) If you don't work, you can't pay off that mortgage on your house or that loan on your car. Also, I wasn't in the military because I wanted to be there. Like most people, I just needed a job. Even if it was basically selling myself into slavery. Only the wealthy are free from involuntary servitude.

As to how to make free medical care or free college work, all you need to do is see how other countries do it. Though granted, they don't have to put up with the level of multiethnic bullshit that we do. And that is probably despite letting so many muslim invaders into their countries. Also, those other countries probably have slightly different approaches to doing what they do. All the U.S. has to do is see the various ways they do it and pick a plan that is best for the U.S. Monkey see, monkey do.

Dear krypto
Other countries that have very stable systems tend to be homogenous.
That would be the equivalent of say, the state of Texas, working out
ways for workers and businesses to invest in hospitals and health care
for its own population. Not depending on federal govt to redistribute
money, which if you were paying attention, resulted in Corporate Insurance
interests getting paid trillions of our tax dollars up front while our citizens
go without affordable coverage and deductibles. That's not how the
other countries pulled it off -- do you see them paying trillions of dollars
to corporations while taxing and fining citizens for not buying insurance from them?

BTW the argument against nationalized health care is that it
belongs on the level of the states or people to decide.

That IS closer to the level that other countries organize
their systems, more like states. Not like the entire US
that is more like Europe. You don't see one health care
system for all of Europe managed under one central body, do you?
NO, they can't even get the EU right. It's gotten so hijacked the
Mayor of London got elected for backing the threat to pull out
if the EU didn't respect the rights of GB and kept abusing power.

So please compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges.

It is possible to set up systems for states to organize collective
resources and manage them democratically by their own citizens.
That might be closer to what you are comparing with "countries in Europe"

But to set up a centralized system to cover "all states under one policy"
is opening the door to abuse, corruption, and bureaucracy.

Would you really expect all citizens across Europe to be managed
under one health care plan run through the EU. How would you
check that to make sure the money went where everyone agreed
when you are dealing with that diverse population? Clearly it makes
MORE sense to manage it more locally. That is the SAME argument
here; instead of trying to dictate one policy for the whole nation,
let the people and states have freedom to work out their own means
of providing health care. I have suggested revamping the state and
federal prison systems, to cut costs by running them as medical
programs to diagnose and treat criminal and mental illness so
effectively that it cuts crime and saves billions of dollars. So that
money can be invested in expanding health care services and
medical education and facilities to serve the greater public.

That is best run state by state. That might be closer
to what you are seeing work in countries that don't
have the diversity of populations and regions the US has.

 

[emilynghiem]

Somebody around here probably already did a thread like this. And there was that documentary done about it called "Sicko." But I got quite a few objections out of people with my thread, "College should be free. (for Americans)" I wonder what they will have to say about me saying that health care should be free too. And the worse that may be for insurance companies, the better I like it!

Such a wish is born of extreme ignorance about the most basic facts of economics.

It is not possible for college nor medical care to be free.

It costs money—lots of money—to offer these services. Facilities must be built and maintained, equipment and materials must be provided,and staff must be employed. “Free” does not negate this basic fact; if someone receives these services for “free”, all it really means is that someone else, who is not receiving these services, is being compelled to pay for them.

Maybe someday one of you can explain why Americans pay multiple times more for even the most basic healthcare than people in any other industrialized nation, and that's a Good Thing.

I'm guessing your answer will have something to do with "American exceptionalism."

Nationalized healthcare is American exceptionalism? lol.

No.

So, lessee now: we pay multiple times more for healthcare, and we have nationalized healthcare.

Gee, you stumped me, Mon. Why do we pay more?

Because people like you believe we have "nationalized healthcare."

When you figure out what's actually going on, get back to us.

Dear Arianrhod what we have is worse. we have a corporate monopoly
getting trillions of our tax dollars, backing a mandate that requires all citizens
to pay into the plan either to buy insurance from private interests or pay fines
into a system we didn't agree to either.

This is like holding America hostage under this plan "until someone reforms it
or replaces it"

If you like this plan then you pay for.

I have just as much right to fund CHARITIES I believe are more cost effective,
and NONPROFIT medical programs that are more sustainable.

But THANKS TO YOU going along with this system and enabling it
my rights and freedoms are violated every day the mandates are not
changed to voluntary.

I blame Obama Pelosi Judge Roberts and any other federal officials
who passed and enforced these mandates by voting ruling or signing on it,
when the opposition made it clear it is in VIOLATION of Constitutional laws
and beliefs.

If you show as much disregard for the law as these abusers in office,
I hold you and other Democrats responsible who keep teaching that
it is lawful when it is unconstitutional. You are equally responsible.

Sorry but I'm trying to fix this problem, not deny it and try to
justify and push it on people as the law. To me, to keep enforcing
it as lawful and denying the rejection of it as unconstitutional,
amounts to CONSPIRING TO VIOLATE EQUAL CIVIL RIGHTS.

Do you really want to be responsible for that?
Not me, I am on the side of teaching people their rights to reject
unconstitutional mandates.

To me, to do what you do and keep teaching people this is acceptable,
is like teaching people to accept rape and robbery: it's okay to be coerced against
your will. That isn't unlawful to force something on you if OTHER
people are benefitting. Then is it justified to force this on you???

If you are being defrauded of money out of your paycheck
"But the money is helping to go to people in need so it is GOOD"
does that give the people the right to take your money without
your consent?

Sorry Arianrhod but I am horrified and insulted that anyone
would teach this is somehow responsible behavior, much less legal and ethical.

I welcome charity and believe in saving lives by making health
care accessible, affordable and sustainable.
BUT NOT AT THE EXPENSE OF HUMAN RIGHTS AND FREEDOM

That is NOT necessary to abridge and deny the rights and liberties of
ALL citizens when there are more effective ways of providing health
care we need to invest in that CAN'T BE DONE THROUGH GOVT.

So this shortcut way for political expedience is TAKING AWAY
resources and attention that needs to be invested in building
medical programs and service facilities.

The biggest sign that this is not the best way, is that
even YOU do not take financial responsibility for this,
but expect "other people to pay"

When I compare programs like AmeriCares and Doctors without Borders,
they earn respect and funding support by VOLUNTARY donations
and participation BECAUSE THEY WORK EFFECTIVELY.

THAT is how medical and health care programs need to be
built to be sustainable and accountable to the public.

They don't FORCE people by taxes to fund them (so they
can cut deals like paying trillions to corporate interests).
They have a good record of using funds for services
IN THE MOST COST EFFECTIVE WAYS in order
to keep getting donations and grants. They earn it by
providing good services. That's what I believe in.

Yet this system of ACA mandates PUNISHES me
for wanting to fund that. I face FINES if I'd rather
pay money to nonprofits to set up hospitals
rather than pay money to corporate insurance.

@Arianhrod can you explain why should I be
fined under ACA and forced to give money to
insurance that doesn't provide health care
or create jobs in nursing and medical care,
when by my free market beliefs the most
cost effective way to provide universal care
is to invest DIRECTLY into building medical
education programs, internships and facilities
that provide low cost health care to the public
as part of the supervised education and training.

Is your program so much better than this, that
you have to FINE me for wanting the free choice
to invest DIRECTLY into building medical schools,
such as converting prisons into medical programs
in order to afford health care for more of the population
using the money currently spent on just prisons and inmates.

Please explain why my beliefs are penalized
and how is this NOT unconstitutional to discriminate
and punish me based on my beliefs.

 

[emilynghiem]

That was the question.....free to who.

If they are getting paid...who is paying them ?

What a great fucking idea!!! Let's PAY people to go to college! And the better they do, the more they get paid! You can bet your ass that if I got paid to do well in highschool, I would have done so.

Dear krypto
OKAY if you believe in this, start a company that raises money for scholarships, internships
and student loans and grants. Feature students you think deserve funding.
You could have a million dollar site, combining gofundme and those audition contest / shark tank shows.

Get universities behind you. Grant foundations.
Big companies looking to hire rising stars. Go for it!

I can't even afford to eat very well. And after a few weeks, I am usually broke. Also, I often have to ride a bus if I need to go anywhere. Why don't you just suggest to me that I wave a magic fucking wand. After all, doesn't that work for everybody?

I didn't wave a magic wand. I went out and did something to earn what I have. You, on the other hand, demand someone else go out and earn so it can be taken in order to provide to you.

No one, and I mean no one, owes you a damn thing.

I suggest you get off your ass and spend half as much time doing something to better yourself as you do demanding someone else provide to you.

Oh. You mean what you "earned" in the absence of any other single human on the planet? You're a joke. Next, moron, what is it you don't get. If medical coverage and college were free, "everybody" would benifit. In the documentary "Sicko," the people they talked to, the "working" ones, were horrified at the thought of doing without their free medical coverage. And you are horrified at the thought of it? How interesting. Also, I have something to suggest to you too. But I don't feel like getting banned.

Dear krypto OK so if the benefits are going to pay off,
are you willing to fund this yourself if you believe it so much?
I give donations to Doctors without Borders because their
cost effectiveness ensures the most people will benefit.

There's nothing wrong with CHOOSING to give charity.

But krypto if you are going to MANDATE charity,
who has the right to DICTATE WHICH CHARITIES
to give to? Why isn't this left to people to decide
to give to Harvard medical school to expand public health internships
and outreach. Or give to UTMB in Galveston.

If this is mandated through govt isn't that dangerous?
What if rightwing could get in control and MANDATE
that our taxes go to PROLIFE groups and anyone
who wants to give to PROCHOICE options, too bad,
you still get FINED and your MONEY goes to the PROLIFE programs anyway.

krypto if you are going to have FEDERAL GOVT
dictate which health care groups to fund, who gets
to decide the rules and regulations.

I'm sorry you don't get this.
Someone you assume that once this power get
into the hands of govt then "magically the govt
will direct the money as you want in your mind"

Good luck with that krypto from experience
the ONLY way I know to ensure the money goes
where YOU think it should go is for YOU to direct
the money there YOURSELF. This is what
conservatives means by running social programs
through the PRIVATE sector where YOU control
the money and where it goes because it's your money you are responsible for.

krypto I will believe you when you try to set up a program
like Doctors without Borders, Pace Universal or AmeriCares.
Go ahead, see how much work it takes to manage health
care resources and services and get them from point A to point B.
You'll quickly find you don't want govt involved and interfering
with the operations it takes to run such a program effectively.

Remember krypto when you run a program as a private
individual or organization, you can make all the decisions yourself.
When you RUN THINGS THROUGH FEDERAL GOVT
that means you have to vote and pass things that represent
ALL OTHER PEOPLE AND STATES represented by GOVT.

So all the people you are arguing with HERE
they would have to AGREE where and how to fund
which policy or program to make it work and represent everyone.

If you want to run things YOUR way, then you do it privately.
You fund and manage it yourself, through your own organization,
and then you retain full freedom to decide how to do it.

I think you and other liberals have gotten in the bad habit of
expecting to run things through govt and think it will come out
how YOU want it. But YOU aren't the entire nation paying it
and owed equal representation for anytihng passed and enforced by govt.

You seem to think that "once the money is in the hands of govt
you have the right to spend it any way you see fit"

WHY do you think you have the right to bypass the consent
of other taxpayers who are paying in also?

WHY do you think your idea is so much better you can
impose and dictate on everyone else?

I'd really like to know why and where you get this idea.
If any other group took public tax dollars and voted to give it
some charity you didn't agree to fund, you'd yell too.
Why can't you see that people deserve equal freedom
to make that choice where to fund social programs that not everyone agrees on?

Where's the inclusion of diversity?
Where does this come from that you think you can dictate for the rest of the nation?

 

[krypto]

What a great fucking idea!!! Let's PAY people to go to college! And the better they do, the more they get paid! You can bet your ass that if I got paid to do well in highschool, I would have done so.

Dear krypto
OKAY if you believe in this, start a company that raises money for scholarships, internships
and student loans and grants. Feature students you think deserve funding.
You could have a million dollar site, combining gofundme and those audition contest / shark tank shows.

Get universities behind you. Grant foundations.
Big companies looking to hire rising stars. Go for it!

I can't even afford to eat very well. And after a few weeks, I am usually broke. Also, I often have to ride a bus if I need to go anywhere. Why don't you just suggest to me that I wave a magic fucking wand. After all, doesn't that work for everybody?

I didn't wave a magic wand. I went out and did something to earn what I have. You, on the other hand, demand someone else go out and earn so it can be taken in order to provide to you.

No one, and I mean no one, owes you a damn thing.

I suggest you get off your ass and spend half as much time doing something to better yourself as you do demanding someone else provide to you.

Oh. You mean what you "earned" in the absence of any other single human on the planet? You're a joke. Next, moron, what is it you don't get. If medical coverage and college were free, "everybody" would benifit. In the documentary "Sicko," the people they talked to, the "working" ones, were horrified at the thought of doing without their free medical coverage. And you are horrified at the thought of it? How interesting. Also, I have something to suggest to you too. But I don't feel like getting banned.

Dear krypto OK so if the benefits are going to pay off,
are you willing to fund this yourself if you believe it so much?
I give donations to Doctors without Borders because their
cost effectiveness ensures the most people will benefit.

There's nothing wrong with CHOOSING to give charity.

But krypto if you are going to MANDATE charity,
who has the right to DICTATE WHICH CHARITIES
to give to? Why isn't this left to people to decide
to give to Harvard medical school to expand public health internships
and outreach. Or give to UTMB in Galveston.

If this is mandated through govt isn't that dangerous?
What if rightwing could get in control and MANDATE
that our taxes go to PROLIFE groups and anyone
who wants to give to PROCHOICE options, too bad,
you still get FINED and your MONEY goes to the PROLIFE programs anyway.

krypto if you are going to have FEDERAL GOVT
dictate which health care groups to fund, who gets
to decide the rules and regulations.

I'm sorry you don't get this.
Someone you assume that once this power get
into the hands of govt then "magically the govt
will direct the money as you want in your mind"

Good luck with that krypto from experience
the ONLY way I know to ensure the money goes
where YOU think it should go is for YOU to direct
the money there YOURSELF. This is what
conservatives means by running social programs
through the PRIVATE sector where YOU control
the money and where it goes because it's your money you are responsible for.

krypto I will believe you when you try to set up a program
like Doctors without Borders, Pace Universal or AmeriCares.
Go ahead, see how much work it takes to manage health
care resources and services and get them from point A to point B.
You'll quickly find you don't want govt involved and interfering
with the operations it takes to run such a program effectively.

Remember krypto when you run a program as a private
individual or organization, you can make all the decisions yourself.
When you RUN THINGS THROUGH FEDERAL GOVT
that means you have to vote and pass things that represent
ALL OTHER PEOPLE AND STATES represented by GOVT.

So all the people you are arguing with HERE
they would have to AGREE where and how to fund
which policy or program to make it work and represent everyone.

If you want to run things YOUR way, then you do it privately.
You fund and manage it yourself, through your own organization,
and then you retain full freedom to decide how to do it.

I think you and other liberals have gotten in the bad habit of
expecting to run things through govt and think it will come out
how YOU want it. But YOU aren't the entire nation paying it
and owed equal representation for anytihng passed and enforced by govt.

You seem to think that "once the money is in the hands of govt
you have the right to spend it any way you see fit"

WHY do you think you have the right to bypass the consent
of other taxpayers who are paying in also?

WHY do you think your idea is so much better you can
impose and dictate on everyone else?

I'd really like to know why and where you get this idea.
If any other group took public tax dollars and voted to give it
some charity you didn't agree to fund, you'd yell too.
Why can't you see that people deserve equal freedom
to make that choice where to fund social programs that not everyone agrees on?

Where's the inclusion of diversity?
Where does this come from that you think you can dictate for the rest of the nation?

Blah blah blah. I'm not talking about charity. I'm talking about society. And your talk of me personally funding free health care, or paying students to go to college, is ludicrous. Also, your argument about pro-life is pretty far off the mark. No matter how those pro-life morons slice it, it is always going to be the better argument that it is the woman's body so it should be her choice. Another thing is that, like it or not, other countries make universal health care work. If Americans can't, it doesn't mean that there is something wrong with universal health care. It means that there is something wrong with America. Which there is. Many things.

 

[JBond]

Somebody around here probably already did a thread like this. And there was that documentary done about it called "Sicko." But I got quite a few objections out of people with my thread, "College should be free. (for Americans)" I wonder what they will have to say about me saying that health care should be free too. And the worse that may be for insurance companies, the better I like it!

Why do you think everyone in the medical profession would work for free? Do other loons believe this garbage?

Or do you mean you want your neighbors to pay for your medical care? Might as well go begging house to house.

 

[krypto]

Somebody around here probably already did a thread like this. And there was that documentary done about it called "Sicko." But I got quite a few objections out of people with my thread, "College should be free. (for Americans)" I wonder what they will have to say about me saying that health care should be free too. And the worse that may be for insurance companies, the better I like it!

Why do you think everyone in the medical profession would work for free? Do other loons believe this garbage?

Or do you mean you want your neighbors to pay for your medical care? Might as well go begging house to house.

In countries where they have universal health care, none of the doctors work for free. Maybe they don't get paid quite as much as doctors in the U.S. do. But they still make a very good living. Next, no dickhead. I want YOUR neighbors to pay for YOUR health care. And their neighbors pay for theirs. And so on and so on. In tiny, hardly noticable increments of course. Through taxes.

 

[JBond]

Somebody around here probably already did a thread like this. And there was that documentary done about it called "Sicko." But I got quite a few objections out of people with my thread, "College should be free. (for Americans)" I wonder what they will have to say about me saying that health care should be free too. And the worse that may be for insurance companies, the better I like it!

Why do you think everyone in the medical profession would work for free? Do other loons believe this garbage?

Or do you mean you want your neighbors to pay for your medical care? Might as well go begging house to house.

In countries where they have universal health care, none of the doctors work for free. Maybe they don't get paid quite as much as doctors in the U.S. do. But they still make a very good living. Next, no dickhead. I want YOUR neighbors to pay for YOUR health care. And their neighbors pay for theirs. And so on and so on. In tiny, hardly noticable increments of course. Through taxes.

Little increments. Sounds nice. Good job. We spend about $10,000 per person on healthcare each year. Explain how you would like to do that. Break it down for us. Considering 46% of households pay a net zero of federal tax, explain your wonderful plan.

 

[krypto]

Somebody around here probably already did a thread like this. And there was that documentary done about it called "Sicko." But I got quite a few objections out of people with my thread, "College should be free. (for Americans)" I wonder what they will have to say about me saying that health care should be free too. And the worse that may be for insurance companies, the better I like it!

Why do you think everyone in the medical profession would work for free? Do other loons believe this garbage?

Or do you mean you want your neighbors to pay for your medical care? Might as well go begging house to house.

In countries where they have universal health care, none of the doctors work for free. Maybe they don't get paid quite as much as doctors in the U.S. do. But they still make a very good living. Next, no dickhead. I want YOUR neighbors to pay for YOUR health care. And their neighbors pay for theirs. And so on and so on. In tiny, hardly noticable increments of course. Through taxes.

Little increments. Sounds nice. Good job. We spend about $10,000 per person on healthcare each year. Explain how you would like to do that. Break it down for us. Considering 46% of households pay a net zero of federal tax, explain your wonderful plan.

First, with what we spend on pointless bureaucracy, we could find free health care for 41 million people. Also, I am one of the people you speak of. And in my entire life, I doubt if anything close to 10,000 has been spent on my healthcare. Let alone what has been spent, for instance, in the last year. Another thing is that 99% of the wealth in this country is controlled by 1% of the population. So when it comes to who pays what, the wealthy would have to pay more. A LOT more!

Also, I have heard of many major corporations that have gotten away with paying no income taxes. Maybe you should be concerned a little more about corporate welfare. Also, if you were wealthy and went to someplace like Las Vegas, would it really kill you to use $100 dollar chips instead of $500, $1000 or even $10,000 dollar chips?

Also, if you want to know how to make it work, just go to Canadia, Germany, The Netherlands, Sweden, Switzerland, England, France, Japan or wherever and ask them how they do it. It's easy as pie. It couldn't get any simpler. Monkey see, monkey do. And it would be WAY easier if we got rid of our useless latinos and negros first.

 

[JBond]

I appreciate the response. Most folks here seem to be nothing more than attack dogs. You have some ideas, but are a bit lite on details. England and Canada both are experiencing major issues with their socialized medical programs. My next door neighbors are Canadian. Wonderful people. They moved here when the wife developed breast cancer. Her best chance for survival was here, not Canada. Thank God she is now in remission and has tested clear for 3 years now.

The $10,000 is just the average. Some spend way more and others less. I hear numbers tossed about regarding the 1%, yet when tax increases are proposed they include far more than just the wealthiest 1%. Go for it. Tax the crap out of them. Or try to. It will never happen because they own both political parties. Same for GE, Google, and others. The dems have not done a damn thing differently then the repubs on this issue. That tells me the fix is in and to ignore all the noise both sides make on the topic of taxes.

Again, when 46% of the households essentially contribute nothing at the federal level, paying for these utopian plans becomes problematic.

 

[vlossforex]

It is never free. We citizens pay one way or another. It is either buying health insurance or more taxes. When you get something without paying hard earned cash you have a tendency to waste and abuse those services. Why else to Medicaid patients go to emergency rooms for the sniffles at a cost of 4 times a doctor visit.
The other factor against this is the government has not run one program successfully or within budget. I really to not wish to leave my health care choice to our elected officials. I had a biopsy on a tumor, cancerous and it was successfully removed at that time. One day diagnosis and surgery. Under other country's National Healthcare I would have had to wait many months or years and would be dead before they got to me.

 

[Rambunctious]

Somebody around here probably already did a thread like this. And there was that documentary done about it called "Sicko." But I got quite a few objections out of people with my thread, "College should be free. (for Americans)" I wonder what they will have to say about me saying that health care should be free too. And the worse that may be for insurance companies, the better I like it!

If it costs nothing...it's worth nothing. There is a reason why wealthy folks and leaders of nations with free health care come here when they get sick. Smarten up Krypto you may need Americas expensive and cherished healthcare one day so don't screw it up by making it worthless.

 

[JBond]

Blah blah blah. I'm not talking about charity. I'm talking about society. And your talk of me personally funding free health care, or paying students to go to college, is ludicrous. Also, your argument about pro-life is pretty far off the mark. No matter how those pro-life morons slice it, it is always going to be the better argument that it is the woman's body so it should be her choice. Another thing is that, like it or not, other countries make universal health care work. If Americans can't, it doesn't mean that there is something wrong with universal health care. It means that there is something wrong with America. Which there is. Many things.

Condoning torture is just plain sick and twisted. Only damaged individuals could possible believe it is ok to abort a baby that is capable of feeling pain. Any abortion after the point the baby can feel pain should be illegal.