Health Care Should Be FREE! (In the U.S.)

[emilynghiem]

Blah blah blah. I'm not talking about charity. I'm talking about society. And your talk of me personally funding free health care, or paying students to go to college, is ludicrous. Also, your argument about pro-life is pretty far off the mark. No matter how those pro-life morons slice it, it is always going to be the better argument that it is the woman's body so it should be her choice. Another thing is that, like it or not, other countries make universal health care work. If Americans can't, it doesn't mean that there is something wrong with universal health care. It means that there is something wrong with America. Which there is. Many things.

Hi krypto
1. why do you believe so much in the woman's right to choose what to do with her own body but not the right of people to choose what system of health care to invest our money and labor into? Is the money income and labor we produce "already under the control of the state" like the baby in the womb that prolife argue already has rights to life under the state?

2. if you think it is ridiculous to fund health care or paying students to go to college,
then why are you asking OTHER PEOPLE to pay for this? You just said it is ridiculous.
Guess what, that's what free market people are saying when you INSIST they pay for it personally. What is the difference if you are also asking people to pay out of labor and income for health care through the state. That's still paying personally, right?

So if I want to pay for free health care, you and I should not do this by paying directly to the programs providing the care we CHOOSE similar to a "woman CHOOSING for herself instead of the govt deciding"

but the ONLY CHOICE YOU BELIEVE In is paying to GOVT to pay for those services
where GOVT makes the decision.

Would you agree to go through GOVT to make decisions on a woman's body?
Where is the same "freedom of choice" in the case of health care?

 

[JBond]

Just so everyone is operating with sound information, I dug up this link. It is a spreadsheet from CMS.gov

Direct link to the spreadsheet:
National Health Expenditures by type of service and source of funds

The Web Site:
Historical - Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services

 

[krypto]

I appreciate the response. Most folks here seem to be nothing more than attack dogs. You have some ideas, but are a bit lite on details. England and Canada both are experiencing major issues with their socialized medical programs. My next door neighbors are Canadian. Wonderful people. They moved here when the wife developed breast cancer. Her best chance for survival was here, not Canada. Thank God she is now in remission and has tested clear for 3 years now.

The $10,000 is just the average. Some spend way more and others less. I hear numbers tossed about regarding the 1%, yet when tax increases are proposed they include far more than just the wealthiest 1%. Go for it. Tax the crap out of them. Or try to. It will never happen because they own both political parties. Same for GE, Google, and others. The dems have not done a damn thing differently then the repubs on this issue. That tells me the fix is in and to ignore all the noise both sides make on the topic of taxes.

Again, when 46% of the households essentially contribute nothing at the federal level, paying for these utopian plans becomes problematic.

You are right. Both the democrats and republicans are just two sides of the same coin. That's one of the many reasons why I am a National Socialist. Hitler knew how to put people to work. After the war for instance, Eisenhower was so impressed with the Autobhan, he wanted there to be a similar road network in the U.S. When it comes to employment, in contrast, look at the U.S. There are websites out there that say that there are 100 million unemployed Americans. But as far as I can figure, there are around 27 million unemployed working age Americans. (Though there could be more) There is also an almost equal number of Americans who are underemployed.

Taxing people when so many jobs have been sent overseas is also a problem. But the U.S. can apparently easily afford to kill millions of Americans on pointless wars. Or spend trillions of dollars doing so. Or lose anywhere from 300 billion to over 700 billion dollars a year on the trade imbalance with China alone. Or HAVING to pay 420 billion dollars a year just in the interest of our national debt each year. But apparently coming up with 2 billion dollars to fight the Zika virus is something that congress can't be bothered with. We CAN do free health care. All it takes is the will to do so.

 

[krypto]

It is never free. We citizens pay one way or another. It is either buying health insurance or more taxes. When you get something without paying hard earned cash you have a tendency to waste and abuse those services. Why else to Medicaid patients go to emergency rooms for the sniffles at a cost of 4 times a doctor visit.
The other factor against this is the government has not run one program successfully or within budget. I really to not wish to leave my health care choice to our elected officials. I had a biopsy on a tumor, cancerous and it was successfully removed at that time. One day diagnosis and surgery. Under other country's National Healthcare I would have had to wait many months or years and would be dead before they got to me.

Insurance companies need to go away. Most of those who work in them need to be rounded up and impaled like Vlad the Impaler did. The useless slimy lying parasites! Also, just from the waste caused by useless bureaucracy, we could provide free health care to 41 million people. That would take a big bite out of what universal health care would cost.

Also, I hear a lot of bullshit horror stories about how poor universal health care is. But not having universal health care is FAR worse. In countries where they have it, do you know what the number is of people who go bankrupt or become homeless is for those who can't afford their medical bills? "0" !!! As to your "sniffels" thing, it is often a lot faster and easier to go to the emergency room. For doctors appointments, you could wait a couple weeks before the doctor can see you. I think that is places where you can just walk in to see a doctor, like "Redi-Med," have been springing up.

Another thing is that a few years back there were some tea party scum holding a demonstration across the street against universal health care. At the end of the line, sitting on the open end of a minivan, there were a couple people holding a sort of counter demonstration. They had a sign up that promoted free health care. I went over and talked to them. It turns out that at least one of them worked for the insurance industry. He was one of those people who the insurance industry hired to come up with reasons to deny medical coverage to those who had medical coverage through their insurance company. I guess all the people he financially destroyed and most likely lead to early deaths for was eating away on his conscience.

 

[krypto]

Somebody around here probably already did a thread like this. And there was that documentary done about it called "Sicko." But I got quite a few objections out of people with my thread, "College should be free. (for Americans)" I wonder what they will have to say about me saying that health care should be free too. And the worse that may be for insurance companies, the better I like it!

If it costs nothing...it's worth nothing. There is a reason why wealthy folks and leaders of nations with free health care come here when they get sick. Smarten up Krypto you may need Americas expensive and cherished healthcare one day so don't screw it up by making it worthless.

You are wrong when it comes to health coverage. Though it may be true for the VA. But that is a different story. Also, why would some wealthy person from some European country want to come here to get medical treatment? Could it be that the U.S. is a far larger and wealthier country than any European country? With many more universities?

Another thing is that if you think there is a justifiable reason for raising the price of some drug by 1500%, you are just high. Money and greed are whips and slavedrivers. But my intuition tells me that Americans have their shit together enough to still be technologically advanced with a little less of those driving factors.

 

[Rambunctious]

Somebody around here probably already did a thread like this. And there was that documentary done about it called "Sicko." But I got quite a few objections out of people with my thread, "College should be free. (for Americans)" I wonder what they will have to say about me saying that health care should be free too. And the worse that may be for insurance companies, the better I like it!

If it costs nothing...it's worth nothing. There is a reason why wealthy folks and leaders of nations with free health care come here when they get sick. Smarten up Krypto you may need Americas expensive and cherished healthcare one day so don't screw it up by making it worthless.

You are wrong when it comes to health coverage. Though it may be true for the VA. But that is a different story. Also, why would some wealthy person from some European country want to come here to get medical treatment? Could it be that the U.S. is a far larger and wealthier country than any European country? With many more universities?

Another thing is that if you think there is a justifiable reason for raising the price of some drug by 1500%, you are just high. Money and greed are whips and slavedrivers. But my intuition tells me that Americans have their shit together enough to still be technologically advanced with a little less of those driving factors.

Do you want new drugs and treatments? Do you want to see a cure to cancer? Do you want well trained and skilled surgeons? Do you want to see a Doctor that is earning a decent living or do you want to see a doctor that is worried about paying his bills? Health coverage will always be better for the wealthy than it is for the poor...it always has been and if you think that is going to change you are just high.

 

[krypto]

Blah blah blah. I'm not talking about charity. I'm talking about society. And your talk of me personally funding free health care, or paying students to go to college, is ludicrous. Also, your argument about pro-life is pretty far off the mark. No matter how those pro-life morons slice it, it is always going to be the better argument that it is the woman's body so it should be her choice. Another thing is that, like it or not, other countries make universal health care work. If Americans can't, it doesn't mean that there is something wrong with universal health care. It means that there is something wrong with America. Which there is. Many things.

Condoning torture is just plain sick and twisted. Only damaged individuals could possible believe it is ok to abort a baby that is capable of feeling pain. Any abortion after the point the baby can feel pain should be illegal.

Since when is aborting a fetus "torture." The REAL torture comes into play when you let them be born into such a fucked up world. I myself wish that I had been aborted. Fuck this world and every single living human piece of shit on it!!! Who in the hell are you to condemn somebody to life. To be happy in this world requires way more self delusion and stupidity than I would care to experience.

Also, out in the real world, it is far from uncommon for some father to muder an actually born "useless" first born female child. I knew a girl from Korea that had that happen to her. Though obviously, the person who tried to bash her brains out was unsucessful. She only had cerbral palsey from it.

Another thing is that an adult mouse, cow, whale, bird or whatever knows far better what it is to be alive than some fetus does. But people generally don't care too much about killing those. It is the stupidity of not allowing abortions if the mother wants one that should be illegal.

 

[JBond]

Bullets are cheap. You sound pretty miserable.

 

[krypto]

Somebody around here probably already did a thread like this. And there was that documentary done about it called "Sicko." But I got quite a few objections out of people with my thread, "College should be free. (for Americans)" I wonder what they will have to say about me saying that health care should be free too. And the worse that may be for insurance companies, the better I like it!

If it costs nothing...it's worth nothing. There is a reason why wealthy folks and leaders of nations with free health care come here when they get sick. Smarten up Krypto you may need Americas expensive and cherished healthcare one day so don't screw it up by making it worthless.

You are wrong when it comes to health coverage. Though it may be true for the VA. But that is a different story. Also, why would some wealthy person from some European country want to come here to get medical treatment? Could it be that the U.S. is a far larger and wealthier country than any European country? With many more universities?

Another thing is that if you think there is a justifiable reason for raising the price of some drug by 1500%, you are just high. Money and greed are whips and slavedrivers. But my intuition tells me that Americans have their shit together enough to still be technologically advanced with a little less of those driving factors.

Do you want new drugs and treatments? Do you want to see a cure to cancer? Do you want well trained and skilled surgeons? Do you want to see a Doctor that is earning a decent living or do you want to see a doctor that is worried about paying his bills? Health coverage will always be better for the wealthy than it is for the poor...it always has been and if you think that is going to change you are just high.

You are high to think that we can't have universal health care AND advances in medicine. Also, in another thread I said that the government should actually PAY students to go to college. Or to a university. And the better they do, the more they get paid. Nothing could lead to greater or faster advancements in medicine as that. Also, I have never heard of a doctor having trouble paying his bills. Doctors in countries may not earn quite as much as doctors in the U.S. do. But they still manage to make a VERY comfortable living.

Also, George Washington also probably paid for the best medical treatment that was available. They bled him to death. Another thing is that just because the wealthy can afford things that are better than what a poor person could afford doesn't prove anything.

 

[krypto]

Blah blah blah. I'm not talking about charity. I'm talking about society. And your talk of me personally funding free health care, or paying students to go to college, is ludicrous. Also, your argument about pro-life is pretty far off the mark. No matter how those pro-life morons slice it, it is always going to be the better argument that it is the woman's body so it should be her choice. Another thing is that, like it or not, other countries make universal health care work. If Americans can't, it doesn't mean that there is something wrong with universal health care. It means that there is something wrong with America. Which there is. Many things.

Hi krypto
1. why do you believe so much in the woman's right to choose what to do with her own body but not the right of people to choose what system of health care to invest our money and labor into? Is the money income and labor we produce "already under the control of the state" like the baby in the womb that prolife argue already has rights to life under the state?

2. if you think it is ridiculous to fund health care or paying students to go to college,
then why are you asking OTHER PEOPLE to pay for this? You just said it is ridiculous.
Guess what, that's what free market people are saying when you INSIST they pay for it personally. What is the difference if you are also asking people to pay out of labor and income for health care through the state. That's still paying personally, right?

So if I want to pay for free health care, you and I should not do this by paying directly to the programs providing the care we CHOOSE similar to a "woman CHOOSING for herself instead of the govt deciding"

but the ONLY CHOICE YOU BELIEVE In is paying to GOVT to pay for those services
where GOVT makes the decision.

Would you agree to go through GOVT to make decisions on a woman's body?
Where is the same "freedom of choice" in the case of health care?

First, what a woman does with a fetus is a personal matter. Making people who are genetically programed to be selfish to share instead is a social issue. Which involves WAY more people and has more far reaching ramifications. Next, go on the internet and look up an outline drawing of an adult female. Then find a proportionally sized outline drawing of a fetus. Then place them side by side. The one with the superior size (and intellect) is the one with the greatest rights.

Next, because "I" dont have that kind of money. It would take trillions. I get about $750 a month. Next, no. Paying a small portion of it through taxes isn't paying for it personally. Also, don't you know that everything is just a pile of shit? Take taxes. From what I hear, the first year federal incom taxes were imposed, people got nothing back. The next year, people paid their incom tax and got most of it back later as a tax refund. Everything the government was able to do with tax money came from the year before. And so on and so on.

Another thing is that I told somebody that if the government charged you an extra $200.00 dollars a year in taxes to pay for universal health care, all it would mean is $4,00 less in your pocket each week. Just ask your boss for a $4.00 a week raise. Then universal health care with shit to pay for it!

Next, "choosing" to pay some medical insurance company for health care is about the stupidest choice you could make. Many many many many many many people have lived (but not for as long as they might have) to regeret it. Next, I don't know of any universal health care system in any country that would deny a woman's right to have an abortion if she wanted one. And "pay" for it. Have you ever heard of any such instances? Even if you have, I would say that they were out of the ordnary.

 

[dblack]

If we can use government to make something free, why are any of us paying for anything? We should make everything free, right?

 

[Rambunctious]

You are high to think that we can't have universal health care AND advances in medicine.

Sorry the math just doesn't work...the next time you visit your doctor ask him his opinion...I have no reason to lie, I have healthcare for life because of my service. I can sit back and watch it all crumble and just laugh but I happen to care about people and their health care and Obamacare is a bust. California just added Illegal aliens to Obamacare called Covered California. Didn't someone call Obama a liar when he said that would not happen?

 

[krypto]

If we can use government to make something free, why are any of us paying for anything? We should make everything free, right?

Most, if not all, the governments out there are a combination of socialist and capitalist. So it isn't likely that you could form a society where everything was free. Even though, ants, termites and bees do it. And they are just bugs. But all of the most important things should be free. Like health care. Though as for college, I would go beyond free and actually pay students to attend. And the better they do, the more they get paid. Such as the difference between working a job at McDonalds or getting twice that salary.

Also, I saw the filthy traitor Bill Gates telling a congressional committe that they should allow unlimited immigration of skilled foreign workers. But if that treasonous slime really wanted more skilled workers, there is no better way to do it than to PAY American students to go to college. Not only that, for skilled American workers, there would be no real other homeland to send trade secrets or military technology to. At least for the few American spies, they expect money for their treason. A foreign worker would likely view sich a thing as being patriotic toward the country they came from.

 

[krypto]

You are high to think that we can't have universal health care AND advances in medicine.

Sorry the math just doesn't work...the next time you visit your doctor ask him his opinion...I have no reason to lie, I have healthcare for life because of my service. I can sit back and watch it all crumble and just laugh but I happen to care about people and their health care and Obamacare is a bust. California just added Illegal aliens to Obamacare called Covered California. Didn't someone call Obama a liar when he said that would not happen?

The math works in other countries where they have universal health care. Also, fuck asking the doctors. Ask ANYBODY if they think they are getting paid enough. Also, in the doccumentary "Sicko," they DID ask doctors what they thought about it. They didn't talk to any doctor who thought they were being screwed. Maybe some do. But I would imagine that most don't.

Also, the VA is nothing to laugh about. It is more like a tragedy. As for Calfornia, fuck them. They should send ALL their "latinos," legal or not, back to mexico. And while they're at it, send all the filthy jews there too. One of the problems with Calfornia is that it is on its way to becoming like the map on the poster that I will include. And the part that is still the U.S will probably officially be written as it is shown.

 

[Rambunctious]

The math works in other countries where they have universal health care. Also, fuck asking the doctors. Ask ANYBODY if they think they are getting paid enough.

Check the medical and pharmaceutical innovations coming from those "other Countries" You won't find any. Maybe you will except lousy healthcare but many Americans will not especially when the costs go up again in October. And you say fuck the doctors opinion? that is retarded. They are the people you will be relying on one day to save your free boating life. Hope he is up to speed on the latest drugs and treatments. Hope he isn't over worked and under staffed.

 

[krypto]

The math works in other countries where they have universal health care. Also, fuck asking the doctors. Ask ANYBODY if they think they are getting paid enough.

Check the medical and pharmaceutical innovations coming from those "other Countries" You won't find any. Maybe you will except lousy healthcare but many Americans will not especially when the costs go up again in October. And you say fuck the doctors opinion? that is retarded. They are the people you will be relying on one day to save your free boating life. Hope he is up to speed on the latest drugs and treatments. Hope he isn't over worked and under staffed.

Believe it or not, there ARE pharmaceutical companies in other European countries. And no doubt in places like Japan. Where they also have universities. If you are going to tell me that they too haven't come up with new drugs, I'm just not going to believe you. As to your talk about lousy health care, I would be interested to know what insurance company you work for. Or are you just a lobbyist for the industry. Or maybe you are so involved in the medical establishment. Who like the way things are now. Just overflowing with income.

Next, I didn't say "fuck the doctors opinion." (And I certainly wouldn't do so in medical matters) What I said basically was fuck asking "JUST" the doctors. I said to ask anybody if they thought they were getting paid enough. Because chances are, they would tell you that they aren't getting paid enough. Next, if we actually PAID students to go to college. And paid them more if they did well, any overworking or understaffing would be a thing of the past.

 

[Rambunctious]

The math works in other countries where they have universal health care. Also, fuck asking the doctors. Ask ANYBODY if they think they are getting paid enough.

Check the medical and pharmaceutical innovations coming from those "other Countries" You won't find any. Maybe you will except lousy healthcare but many Americans will not especially when the costs go up again in October. And you say fuck the doctors opinion? that is retarded. They are the people you will be relying on one day to save your free boating life. Hope he is up to speed on the latest drugs and treatments. Hope he isn't over worked and under staffed.

Believe it or not, there ARE pharmaceutical companies in other European countries. And no doubt in places like Japan. Where they also have universities. If you are going to tell me that they too haven't come up with new drugs, I'm just not going to believe you. As to your talk about lousy health care, I would be interested to know what insurance company you work for. Or are you just a lobbyist for the industry. Or maybe you are so involved in the medical establishment. Who like the way things are now. Just overflowing with income.

Next, I didn't say "fuck the doctors opinion." (And I certainly wouldn't do so in medical matters) What I said basically was fuck asking "JUST" the doctors. I said to ask anybody if they thought they were getting paid enough. Because chances are, they would tell you that they aren't getting paid enough. Next, if we actually PAID students to go to college. And paid them more if they did well, any overworking or understaffing would be a thing of the past.

It would be a good homework assignment to search for medical innovations around the world. I'm sure other countries have produced great results in medicine, but I just can't remember any right off the top of my head but I will search. Free things are never better than things one pays for that is the basic rules of societal nature. I will make you a great breakfast if you pay me what I need to charge to make money from it. But I will toss you scraps if you want to eat for free. Get it?

 

[krypto]

The math works in other countries where they have universal health care. Also, fuck asking the doctors. Ask ANYBODY if they think they are getting paid enough.

Check the medical and pharmaceutical innovations coming from those "other Countries" You won't find any. Maybe you will except lousy healthcare but many Americans will not especially when the costs go up again in October. And you say fuck the doctors opinion? that is retarded. They are the people you will be relying on one day to save your free boating life. Hope he is up to speed on the latest drugs and treatments. Hope he isn't over worked and under staffed.

Believe it or not, there ARE pharmaceutical companies in other European countries. And no doubt in places like Japan. Where they also have universities. If you are going to tell me that they too haven't come up with new drugs, I'm just not going to believe you. As to your talk about lousy health care, I would be interested to know what insurance company you work for. Or are you just a lobbyist for the industry. Or maybe you are so involved in the medical establishment. Who like the way things are now. Just overflowing with income.

Next, I didn't say "fuck the doctors opinion." (And I certainly wouldn't do so in medical matters) What I said basically was fuck asking "JUST" the doctors. I said to ask anybody if they thought they were getting paid enough. Because chances are, they would tell you that they aren't getting paid enough. Next, if we actually PAID students to go to college. And paid them more if they did well, any overworking or understaffing would be a thing of the past.

It would be a good homework assignment to search for medical innovations around the world. I'm sure other countries have produced great results in medicine, but I just can't remember any right off the top of my head but I will search. Free things are never better than things one pays for that is the basic rules of societal nature. I will make you a great breakfast if you pay me what I need to charge to make money from it. But I will toss you scraps if you want to eat for free. Get it?

I'm not saying that if you pay more, you can't get more. If you don't have much money and want an egg, you can probably get an egg. But if you have enough money and want an egg, you could probably get a Faberge egg. Or at least a whole chicken farm. But the thing is that if you have smart people hanging around just being smart, it doesn't take a whole hell of a lot of incentive for them to do smart things. Government can provide plenty of financial incentive. If they choose to.

 

[Rambunctious]

The math works in other countries where they have universal health care. Also, fuck asking the doctors. Ask ANYBODY if they think they are getting paid enough.

Check the medical and pharmaceutical innovations coming from those "other Countries" You won't find any. Maybe you will except lousy healthcare but many Americans will not especially when the costs go up again in October. And you say fuck the doctors opinion? that is retarded. They are the people you will be relying on one day to save your free boating life. Hope he is up to speed on the latest drugs and treatments. Hope he isn't over worked and under staffed.

Believe it or not, there ARE pharmaceutical companies in other European countries. And no doubt in places like Japan. Where they also have universities. If you are going to tell me that they too haven't come up with new drugs, I'm just not going to believe you. As to your talk about lousy health care, I would be interested to know what insurance company you work for. Or are you just a lobbyist for the industry. Or maybe you are so involved in the medical establishment. Who like the way things are now. Just overflowing with income.

Next, I didn't say "fuck the doctors opinion." (And I certainly wouldn't do so in medical matters) What I said basically was fuck asking "JUST" the doctors. I said to ask anybody if they thought they were getting paid enough. Because chances are, they would tell you that they aren't getting paid enough. Next, if we actually PAID students to go to college. And paid them more if they did well, any overworking or understaffing would be a thing of the past.

It would be a good homework assignment to search for medical innovations around the world. I'm sure other countries have produced great results in medicine, but I just can't remember any right off the top of my head but I will search. Free things are never better than things one pays for that is the basic rules of societal nature. I will make you a great breakfast if you pay me what I need to charge to make money from it. But I will toss you scraps if you want to eat for free. Get it?

I'm not saying that if you pay more, you can't get more. If you don't have much money and want an egg, you can probably get an egg. But if you have enough money and want an egg, you could probably get a Faberge egg. Or at least a whole chicken farm. But the thing is that if you have smart people hanging around just being smart, it doesn't take a whole hell of a lot of incentive for them to do smart things. Government can provide plenty of financial incentive. If they choose to.

One day very soon you will begin to hear suggestions for changes in Obamacare...it will not work as it is put together now. We will either need to change it or go back to a total ins/work based system. Some will shout we need to make it free... a single payer system but it won't fly.

 

[dblack]

If we can use government to make something free, why are any of us paying for anything? We should make everything free, right?

Most, if not all, the governments out there are a combination of socialist and capitalist. So it isn't likely that you could form a society where everything was free. Even though, ants, termites and bees do it. And they are just bugs. But all of the most important things should be free. Like health care. Though as for college, I would go beyond free and actually pay students to attend. And the better they do, the more they get paid. Such as the difference between working a job at McDonalds or getting twice that salary.

This is an odd conversation for me, because usually I'll point out that - despite the altruistic pitch - these kinds of ambitions are essentially fascist in nature.

But it sounds like you're ok with that.