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I do not disagree with what you are saying about respect and such. What I do disagree with is that flushing a Koran is a crime, hate or otherwise. The university could start some sort of tolerance seminars, but a 'crime'? No.
Do unto others as you would WANT THEM to do unto YOU.
If you think that Christians and their religious beliefs are not respected AS THEY SHOULD BE, then you should be supporting other religions that feel thae same way as you, no?
Instead it seems you are taking the approach that if you can;t get any respect for your religion then I'LL BE DAMNED IF ANOTHER RELIGION CAN GET IT.
That, gunny, is ridiculous, selfish, vengeful and SHORT SIGHTED in my humble opinion.
Supporting everyone's right to their religious beliefs and respect for such, is one of the foundations of our Country that has made us GREAT.
And if we "pick off" other religions for getting respect just because we haven't gotten the same level of respect WILL ONLY HURT US, in the long run....
And I see supporting the respect of other religious beliefs as a way to get our OWN religious beliefs the respect that has been lacking and spit on, in our society...
Again, treat others as you would want to be treated yourself...it will come back to you... (In rep points), is how I look at it!
Care
How would you feel about it if it was a muslim who put a bible in the toilet?
No, my approach is I simply don't like the double-standard. And you don't know me very well if you think it's about if I can't, then screw them.
I think flushing the Bible or the Koran should not be a crime. If one is a hate crime, then both should be hate crimes. It isn't about me doing anything to anyone or anything.
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Well, IF someone had done this to your Bible, which is also Considered the Word of God, would you consider it a hate crime? Would you be offended and would you want the Hate Crime Law enforced?
I guess that I'm saying is that the anger you see on this board isn't directed towards Muslims who are offended at the treatment of their holy book...but Muslims who are offended at any criticism of their religion who turn towards violence for offenses FAR LESS than Christians in this country have been dealing with for years.If you are insulted when a Bible is thrown in the toilet, then instead of making "fun" of these people that were religiously offended, you should be supporting their concerns.
Do unto others as you would WANT THEM to do unto you. Not do unto others what they have done to you.
I think that if you feel that someone flushing the Holy Bible down the toilet to intimidate you and your religious beliefs is hateful, (even if society doesn't seem to give it the same credence as the Koran's desecration but you FELT it should have been...), then you should see flushing the koran as also a hateful thing to do!
The ACLU and the lefties are destroying the Country brick by brick....piece by piece....and using our own Constitution to do it....
You can burn the US Flag, but you can't toss a Koran in the shitter? WTF is wrong with THIS picture?
Care Wrote:
I agree with you completely that the fact someone stole the individual's Qu'ran is attrocious. However, I think that you would have to agree that Muslim reaction to insults to their religion tends to be a bit more extreme even when it has nothing to do with their religious artifacts being stolen. Van Gogh was stabbed on the street for criticizing their religion, hundreds died because Muslim extremists were offended by political cartoons, etc. etc. If someone had done this to my Bible I would want them charged with destruction of personal property. If someone insulting Catholicism or Christianity in general I'd.....wait a minute....that happens EVERY day...and do you know what I do???? I listen to the criticism and/or insults, and say either "yea, they have a point...I don't like that about Christianity either," or "Well, that was pointless." I can't think of the last time I said...thats it, where's my scimitar...someone's gonna lose their head over that one!
Yes, I agree.
While I am offended, I recognize that it is just a book, printed in some factory and that I can get hundreds more just like it. The book is not what is sacred, the words it contains are....putting a book in a toilet is disrespectful...but not enough to go to the ends that we have seen. As I said, I agree with you that this person has every right to press charges for destruction of personal property. However, what I was speaking to was more the larger issue I see of one religion, many religions actually, taking criticism over and over again without killing others...and one religion that seems lately to not be able to accept any criticism without at the least, national Muslim organizations screeching for justice and at worst, murder.
Again, I agree. BUT, aren't you taking this a bit too far...?
NOTHING like what you described with killing and the such has happened in this case that was posted on THIS THREAD.... so why talk and act like it has, when it hasn't?
I agree, I haven't flushed a Qu'ran...I was not speaking of doing so. I was not supporting an individual doing so to someone else's property.
What I was addressing was the obvious reaction of the Muslim community to an artist making an artistic statement by re-creating a very famous work of art. Christians were furious by Piss Christ...they wrote articles, they spoke on the news, they asked that funding for this type of art be cut off, they burned cars and killed people (oh wait, scratch the last two). Do you deny that the reaction to a Piss Quran would probably be a bit more extreme than the reaction to Piss Christ?
Yes, again I agree. But again, this is NOT the scenario with Muslim Americans, do you think it is? This was not in the article regarding THIS PARTICULAR incident, here in America. I suppose it gave the opportunity to bring up muslims as killers when insulted, but the reality is, it has NOTHING to do with this case imo, Gem.
Of course its a hateful thing to do. No one has said - gee what a nice, kind act that person did by putting someone else's Qu'ran in the toilet. What people ARE saying is that there is an obvious double standard at work here caused by political correctness run amok AND, in my opinion, the western world's fear over the reaction of Muslim extremists when they feel that their religion has been slighted.
So, are you designating these Muslims in this article as Muslim extremists, or are you pleased that they are not extremists and are pursuing the legal route?
I do not support the destruction of anyone else's property. I DO, however, support artists, political cartoonists, political commentators, etc. etc. being able to express themselves without fear of death or dismemberment. That's why - as ugly as I think they are - I support Piss Christ and Dung Madonna just like I would support (and see the value of) a Piss Qu'ran because of the commentary and issues it would bring up - thats what art is supposed to do in some respects, spark commentary and reaction.
Yes, I happen to agree with you.
However, wouldn't YOU be forcing YOUR beliefs down another religion's throat by claiming their Koran is only a piece of paper and by claiming that they should consider it JUST AS SUCH, when THEIR RELIGION DICTATES that the Koran is not just a simple piece of paper?
And I am not suggesting that they "kill" over its desecration by secularists, I am just saying that for some reason, the Koran, is God, to them, and destroying it would be a form of Blasphemy, punishable by death to them and for cartoonists to moc this is just not kosher imo, however, as you have eloquently said, I support their right to do such.
My post was only to illustrate that while Christians seem to react by protests, articles, and a demand for public funding to be cut off, I do not think that many here would disagree that a Muslim reaction would be, could be, far more violent.
I would agree if you were talking about other countries, but not in our own America, unless you corner these people the way other civilized countries have done....then maybe they would be as vicious as in Britain or Spain or France etc.... but so far, they are Americans, just as we are and all have the same equal opportunity to succeed here as the rest of us every day joes or josephines imo.
Care
And I agree with you, it is not a crime...UNLESS, HE DID VANDALIZE this Koran, and steal it from someone, to destroy it....
Then that is the crime, vandalism, not a hate crime...but criminal mischief? was this a crime before hate crime laws? if so, then this too could be breaking the law....I thought applying the denotation of a "hate crime" was just adding extra time to ones sentence for another crime if it involved, race, sex, religion etc...?
And good morning Kathianne!
How would you feel about it if it was a muslim who put a bible in the toilet?
