Happy Sheriff Joe Arpaio: Supreme Court Ruling Gives Me Legal Authority To Profile

[IndependntLogic]

Instead of siding with Illegal Aliens and Mexico, our President should be siding with his fellow Americans. Suing Arizona over this was Un-American and Traitorous. It's time for us to have a President who represents and fights for the American People. Obama and the Democrats gotta go. See ya in November.

That's right! Because only WHITE Americans are real Americans! So you know, freedom and liberty only applies to us! Just like when America was a great example of Libertarianism and the blacks were picking cotton! So it's time for us to have a president who fights for the rights of American people - unless they're brown or something!

Libertarianiasm: A political philosophy which has the only in one setback: It has never worked and doesn't work anywhere now. Oh and the only time in history that Libertarians claim America was actually close to being Libertarian, the overwhelming majority of the government owned slaves, women weren't allowed to vote and children worked in sweatshops. Apparently, it was great. If you were white. ;o)

When I made my initial post, I should've quoted this in stead of what I did, and maybe you'd see where I'm coming from. Your prior posts aren't really an issue in relation to why I called you an asshole, which was perhaps hasty on my part. Essentially, however, what you did was tell Paulitician that what he said can only be explained by racism. What he said, however, if you subtract the word traitorous, pretty much sums up how I feel on the matter. Thus, you're saying that my thoughts on this manner can only be explained through racism. IF that's not what exactly you were getting at, I apologize for the asshole remark, but given the flow of the conversation I'm sure you can see where I'm coming from. You also seemed to imply that libertarianism is an inherently racist philosophy. Once again, I feel that I'm more than qualified to call bullshit, and for obvious reasons.

If it seemed that my remarks implied that Libertarianism equates to racism, then let me apologize. That was not my intent nor is it my belief.
My belief is that there are racists in the world who would take advantage of the belief on the part of Libertarians, that if left unregulated, terrible racial injustices wouldn't occur. I have lived in countries where race laws, labor laws, environmental laws etc... weren't much of an issue. Didn't work out well for the general populace.

 

[Not2BSubjugated]

Yeah BS. My wife is hispanic. About half a dozen of my family members are hispanic. Lemme guess, you're white? Yeah that was tough to figure out!
If you're so ignorant that you can't figure out he fought for the rights of Americans, then it must be because those aren't your kind of Americans.
Let's check the hypocrisy meter here. Hmmm.
I'll bet you hate the Patriot Act.
I'll bet you criticized Obama for signing NDAA.
I'll bet you had a filed day with the time that little white girl was patted down by TSA in an airport.

Yeah. We know you did.

I said I have no problem with the part they approved. But I also listed an example where Arpaio's goons abused the hell outta this and can list specific others. My biggest problem here, is the ambiguity and worse, the hands that will weild this power: Arpaio's.
Your biggest problem here?
Like I said.
See the hypocrisy-meter...

My little brother's father's side of his family is Mexican (making him half Mexican). His grandmother came to the US legally back in the early '70's. That side of his family, as well as our mother's side (which is Hawaiian Chinese. Read brown + immigrant) are very close. When I spend the holidays with my family in Hawaii, our Christmas dinners, etc are typically joint events with both families, though we look at it more as being one family.

I'm of the mindset that President Obama suing Arizona because he assumes that their enforcement of immigration law is going to be racist in nature, is not only stupid, it's also un-American. I happen to agree that defaulting to a no-enforcement situation rather than letting the state do what it can to help out (considering the claims that the Federal Govt doesn't have the funds to enforce immigration law effectively) is tantamount to siding with illegal aliens over American citizens.

Now, read those two paragraphs in conjunction and then tell me. . . do I feel this way simply because those aren't "my" kinds of Americans? Is it Mexicans that I hate or brown people in general? Oh, wait, no! It's probably immigrants that I hate, right?

Asshole.

Hmmm. I suppose I could call you names and go that route but let's try conversation and facts, instead.
If you had paid attention, you might have noted in my post where I wrote
"But I also listed an example where Arpaio's goons abused the hell outta this and can list specific others. My biggest problem here, is the ambiguity and worse, the hands that will weild this power: Arpaio's."
Also, if you had looked earlier in the thread you would have seen where I wrote "I have no problem with this law in any other state. It is the documented and proven abuse of this in Arizona that is the problem for me."

The first time I heard of exactly how racist these cops are, I was down there in Surprise, AZ watching tv at my mom's house. She wasn't surprised by the story at all.
They approached a truckdriver who had committed NO CRIME but just stopped at a weigh station and asked him for proper ID. He gave them his commercial driver's license. BUT he had an accent (gasp! String him up!). So they asked for another form of ID. He gave them his original Social Security card. So then they demanded a Birth Certificate. WTF!!!! Do YOU carry your original BC everywhere you go? If you do, hope your car is never stolen or welcome to the world of identity theft. Do you think they would have asked a white guy for an original BC while he was working, driving his truck? So they hauled the poor guy off to jail. His wife had to take a day off work, drive 45 minutes home, then across town to get him out - which took another 90 minutes. it cost them hundreds of dollars because.... he is Hispanic.
You really think that would have happened to a white guy who had his license and original SS card on him? Think about it.
THAT is the problem I have with this.
Were you aware of these things? I'm going to assume not, so no I'm not going to call you a racist. I'm not even going to call you an asshole.
Instead, I would invite you to see if you are still of the mindset that Obama is unAmerican for thinking there may be reasonable justification to believe that racism exists in AZ law enforcement.

Now that you are of these facts, do you still find it unreasonable to believe that racism might be a problem with the AZ cops?

Now, onto the merits of your actual, debatable point.

First of all, I hate to break it to you, but there are racist cops -EVERYWHERE-. You pick a state and I can fish for an hour and find you a shitload of first hand accounts of police racism. Why should Arizona be singled out and told they just have to deal with the crime problem because they, like every other state, have some bad eggs on their police force? Also, if you think about it, racial profiling can be applied to -ANY- sort of violation. Please tell me where, exactly, we draw the line on just not enforcing a law because we're worried that some cops are pricks? As a libertarian, I don't like seeing -anyone- having too much authority over anyone else, but even I find this particular line of reasoning (if there's some cops that are racist, we shouldn't enforce laws where they might racially profile) absolutely asinine.

Next, you're essentially painting the entire state of Arizona with the same sort of broad brush strokes with which racists paint cultures and ethnic groups, i.e. if there's a few bad eggs in Arizona, then we can't trust/must punish (by not allowing them to enforce laws that protect their citizens) the entire state. That's like citing some examples of African Americans in Baltimore stealing cars and saying, therefore, that blacks in Maryland shouldn't be allowed to go near automobiles. Wouldn't the logical alternative be the same sort of enforcement we have with -all- laws? When a police officer's racism causes improper enforcement of, say, the law against murder, do we shout that enforcing murder laws is too dangerous because of the possibility for racial profiling? No. Generally we just get rid of the offending officer. Why? Because there's already laws against using government authority to discriminate against people based on race. Rather than say, "Well, the current administration doesn't want to enforce that law there, and if we let the state do it, some of those cops are gonna be racist, so. . . sorry AZ. Deal with it.", why wouldn't we just shit can the assholes who break the law?

But no. In the opinion of the current administration, even if they don't have the funding to enforce that law, they won't allow Arizona to enforce it because, apparently, the thought is that the state is incapable of enforcing that law without massive racism. You catch that? As you seem to be doing, the executive branch of our Federal government is saying, based on some examples of bad eggs in the police department (just like you have everywhere), that THE ENTIRE STATE can't be trusted to enforce a basic law properly. Since the Feds say they're too broke to enforce it, and the administration has assumed that Arizona is just a hispanic hating state, it's Obama's view that the best available option is to tell Arizona to just deal with it. Not literally, of course. Live with it, I suppose, would be a better way to put it.

No offense, but to me, you're just some dude on a message board. I say that because, as I have no idea who you are or what your level of knowledge is on virtually anything, I can accept the possibility that there's something about this equation that you're missing.

Obama, however, graduated from Harvard. I refuse to believe that he's unable to realize that his conclusion that the entire state of Arizona can't handle enforcing a law without being racist was reached via the same sort of faulty reasoning that leads racists to assume that a few shitty examples define an entire race. I also refuse to concede that a President who tells an entire state that they're legally obligated to leave the enforcement of a law up to him, then refuses to enforce it, isn't being un-American.

 

[Not2BSubjugated]

That's right! Because only WHITE Americans are real Americans! So you know, freedom and liberty only applies to us! Just like when America was a great example of Libertarianism and the blacks were picking cotton! So it's time for us to have a president who fights for the rights of American people - unless they're brown or something!

Libertarianiasm: A political philosophy which has the only in one setback: It has never worked and doesn't work anywhere now. Oh and the only time in history that Libertarians claim America was actually close to being Libertarian, the overwhelming majority of the government owned slaves, women weren't allowed to vote and children worked in sweatshops. Apparently, it was great. If you were white. ;o)

When I made my initial post, I should've quoted this in stead of what I did, and maybe you'd see where I'm coming from. Your prior posts aren't really an issue in relation to why I called you an asshole, which was perhaps hasty on my part. Essentially, however, what you did was tell Paulitician that what he said can only be explained by racism. What he said, however, if you subtract the word traitorous, pretty much sums up how I feel on the matter. Thus, you're saying that my thoughts on this manner can only be explained through racism. IF that's not what exactly you were getting at, I apologize for the asshole remark, but given the flow of the conversation I'm sure you can see where I'm coming from. You also seemed to imply that libertarianism is an inherently racist philosophy. Once again, I feel that I'm more than qualified to call bullshit, and for obvious reasons.

If it seemed that my remarks implied that Libertarianism equates to racism, then let me apologize. That was not my intent nor is it my belief.
My belief is that there are racists in the world who would take advantage of the belief on the part of Libertarians, that if left unregulated, terrible racial injustices wouldn't occur. I have lived in countries where race laws, labor laws, environmental laws etc... weren't much of an issue. Didn't work out well for the general populace.

Noted.

I do still disagree with legislation based in race at all, save something like the ERA to ensure that the power of the government is never used disproportionately for or against any particular race. Hate crime legislation, affirmative action legislation. . . these things create racially based, preferred classes of people. They also tend to be completely superfluous. If 2 dudes in white hoods each plan a murder out, then each go out and execute their respective plans, but one kills a black man and one kills a white man, why should the punishment differ? Murder 1 is Murder 1, no? Does the family of the black man deserve more justice than the family of the white man? Did they not both lose a family member? Anyway, I digress.

I appreciate the clarification and apologize for calling you an asshole.

 

[IndependntLogic]

When I made my initial post, I should've quoted this in stead of what I did, and maybe you'd see where I'm coming from. Your prior posts aren't really an issue in relation to why I called you an asshole, which was perhaps hasty on my part. Essentially, however, what you did was tell Paulitician that what he said can only be explained by racism. What he said, however, if you subtract the word traitorous, pretty much sums up how I feel on the matter. Thus, you're saying that my thoughts on this manner can only be explained through racism. IF that's not what exactly you were getting at, I apologize for the asshole remark, but given the flow of the conversation I'm sure you can see where I'm coming from. You also seemed to imply that libertarianism is an inherently racist philosophy. Once again, I feel that I'm more than qualified to call bullshit, and for obvious reasons.

If it seemed that my remarks implied that Libertarianism equates to racism, then let me apologize. That was not my intent nor is it my belief.
My belief is that there are racists in the world who would take advantage of the belief on the part of Libertarians, that if left unregulated, terrible racial injustices wouldn't occur. I have lived in countries where race laws, labor laws, environmental laws etc... weren't much of an issue. Didn't work out well for the general populace.

Noted.

I do still disagree with legislation based in race at all, save something like the ERA to ensure that the power of the government is never used disproportionately for or against any particular race. Hate crime legislation, affirmative action legislation. . . these things create racially based, preferred classes of people. They also tend to be completely superfluous. If 2 dudes in white hoods each plan a murder out, then each go out and execute their respective plans, but one kills a black man and one kills a white man, why should the punishment differ? Murder 1 is Murder 1, no? Does the family of the black man deserve more justice than the family of the white man? Did they not both lose a family member? Anyway, I digress.

I appreciate the clarification and apologize for calling you an asshole.

Okay so I didn't want a miles long quote but in regards to your first reply on singling out AZ. Why do I (and Obama) have a problem with AZ specifically? Because that asshole Arpaio has been caught with his hand in the cookie-jar about a gazillion times, in that specific regard. They have it tough down there. Anyone publicly blowing the whistle on the goonsquad is in for some very hard times. But even then, it's beyond conclusive. Why is he still in power? Buicks. Well okay, not Buicks. We just joke with my mom that AZ is the only reason Buick is still in business. They're EVERYWHERE down there. Why? Because old white Republicans LOVE Buicks! So they will not only tolerate but embrace racial profiling with open arms. It's not like it's even some kind of secret or something.
So again for the 4th time and as oer the OP, it's not the law, it's whose hands the power is in, that I have a problem with. Now if you can find me three other states where people producing their license and SS Card have been hauled off to jail for being "potentially illegal", I'd love to see it.

As far as race-based laws, if you're a Libertarian you show an unusual level of reason for one, in your approval of the ERA. Most I've encountered wouldn't even have that in existence. So let's talk about Liberty & Freedom. Other than Israel & the ME, urban areas of China and Russia, I don't know of any country where you can't simply go jogging or play tennis without the worry of a "Papers please." confrontation. My friends abroad joke about how the American government is now portrayed as Nazi's asking that question (even though it's only one state) in political cartoons.
So that's liberty and freedom?

Oh and I never said nor am I a proponent of hate crimes. Completely unrelated issue as far as I can tell.

 

[American_Jihad]

Arpaio Obama Probe Finds ‘National Security Threat’

Wednesday, July 18, 2012

After determining earlier this year there is probable cause to suspect the document released by the White House as Barack Obama’s birth certificate is a forgery, Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio said today he believes his Cold Case Posse’s investigation should be advanced to the federal government, based on further information released today at a press conference under way now in Phoenix that is being live-streamed by WND.

Cold Case Posse lead investigator Mike Zullo said the new information confirms the document presented to the American public in April 2011 is undoubtedly fraudulent.

---

Arpaio Obama Probe Finds ‘National Security Threat’ – Patriot Update

Arpaio’s Obama probe finds ‘national security threat’

 

[IndependntLogic]

Arpaio Obama Probe Finds ‘National Security Threat’

Wednesday, July 18, 2012

After determining earlier this year there is probable cause to suspect the document released by the White House as Barack Obama’s birth certificate is a forgery, Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio said today he believes his Cold Case Posse’s investigation should be advanced to the federal government, based on further information released today at a press conference under way now in Phoenix that is being live-streamed by WND.

Cold Case Posse lead investigator Mike Zullo said the new information confirms the document presented to the American public in April 2011 is undoubtedly fraudulent.

---

Arpaio Obama Probe Finds ‘National Security Threat’ – Patriot Update

Arpaio’s Obama probe finds ‘national security threat’

Well if it was on an unknown Conservative Blog, it must be true!

 

[GuyPinestra]

If it seemed that my remarks implied that Libertarianism equates to racism, then let me apologize. That was not my intent nor is it my belief.
My belief is that there are racists in the world who would take advantage of the belief on the part of Libertarians, that if left unregulated, terrible racial injustices wouldn't occur. I have lived in countries where race laws, labor laws, environmental laws etc... weren't much of an issue. Didn't work out well for the general populace.

Noted.

I do still disagree with legislation based in race at all, save something like the ERA to ensure that the power of the government is never used disproportionately for or against any particular race. Hate crime legislation, affirmative action legislation. . . these things create racially based, preferred classes of people. They also tend to be completely superfluous. If 2 dudes in white hoods each plan a murder out, then each go out and execute their respective plans, but one kills a black man and one kills a white man, why should the punishment differ? Murder 1 is Murder 1, no? Does the family of the black man deserve more justice than the family of the white man? Did they not both lose a family member? Anyway, I digress.

I appreciate the clarification and apologize for calling you an asshole.

Okay so I didn't want a miles long quote but in regards to your first reply on singling out AZ. Why do I (and Obama) have a problem with AZ specifically? Because that asshole Arpaio has been caught with his hand in the cookie-jar about a gazillion times, in that specific regard. They have it tough down there. Anyone publicly blowing the whistle on the goonsquad is in for some very hard times. But even then, it's beyond conclusive. Why is he still in power? Buicks. Well okay, not Buicks. We just joke with my mom that AZ is the only reason Buick is still in business. They're EVERYWHERE down there. Why? Because old white Republicans LOVE Buicks! So they will not only tolerate but embrace racial profiling with open arms. It's not like it's even some kind of secret or something.
So again for the 4th time and as oer the OP, it's not the law, it's whose hands the power is in, that I have a problem with. Now if you can find me three other states where people producing their license and SS Card have been hauled off to jail for being "potentially illegal", I'd love to see it.

As far as race-based laws, if you're a Libertarian you show an unusual level of reason for one, in your approval of the ERA. Most I've encountered wouldn't even have that in existence. So let's talk about Liberty & Freedom. Other than Israel & the ME, urban areas of China and Russia, I don't know of any country where you can't simply go jogging or play tennis without the worry of a "Papers please." confrontation. My friends abroad joke about how the American government is now portrayed as Nazi's asking that question (even though it's only one state) in political cartoons.
So that's liberty and freedom?

Oh and I never said nor am I a proponent of hate crimes. Completely unrelated issue as far as I can tell.

I don't know why your family has such a tough time in Arizona, IL, but I just spent 4 years in Phoenix, and half the state is Hispanic. If Arpaio was pulling people over for 'Driving While Brown', he'd need to triple the size of the Sheriff's Office. He got accused of profiling for setting up DUI checkpoints in Hispanic neighborhoods, but half the county is Hispanic neighborhoods. How the hell is he supposed to do his job if he can't set foot in half the county without being accused of racism?

The 'Papers please' meme is bogus, based on the law. No cop can walk up to you and check your citizenship. PERIOD. Your jogging story is fictitious.

 

[buckeye45_73]

brown people now cant move freely

sure they can, have your papers and if you dont like it, be part of the solution and help us get rid of the illegals....and if we catch Canadians....back to Alberta bitch!

 

[IndependntLogic]

Noted.

I do still disagree with legislation based in race at all, save something like the ERA to ensure that the power of the government is never used disproportionately for or against any particular race. Hate crime legislation, affirmative action legislation. . . these things create racially based, preferred classes of people. They also tend to be completely superfluous. If 2 dudes in white hoods each plan a murder out, then each go out and execute their respective plans, but one kills a black man and one kills a white man, why should the punishment differ? Murder 1 is Murder 1, no? Does the family of the black man deserve more justice than the family of the white man? Did they not both lose a family member? Anyway, I digress.

I appreciate the clarification and apologize for calling you an asshole.

Okay so I didn't want a miles long quote but in regards to your first reply on singling out AZ. Why do I (and Obama) have a problem with AZ specifically? Because that asshole Arpaio has been caught with his hand in the cookie-jar about a gazillion times, in that specific regard. They have it tough down there. Anyone publicly blowing the whistle on the goonsquad is in for some very hard times. But even then, it's beyond conclusive. Why is he still in power? Buicks. Well okay, not Buicks. We just joke with my mom that AZ is the only reason Buick is still in business. They're EVERYWHERE down there. Why? Because old white Republicans LOVE Buicks! So they will not only tolerate but embrace racial profiling with open arms. It's not like it's even some kind of secret or something.
So again for the 4th time and as oer the OP, it's not the law, it's whose hands the power is in, that I have a problem with. Now if you can find me three other states where people producing their license and SS Card have been hauled off to jail for being "potentially illegal", I'd love to see it.

As far as race-based laws, if you're a Libertarian you show an unusual level of reason for one, in your approval of the ERA. Most I've encountered wouldn't even have that in existence. So let's talk about Liberty & Freedom. Other than Israel & the ME, urban areas of China and Russia, I don't know of any country where you can't simply go jogging or play tennis without the worry of a "Papers please." confrontation. My friends abroad joke about how the American government is now portrayed as Nazi's asking that question (even though it's only one state) in political cartoons.
So that's liberty and freedom?

Oh and I never said nor am I a proponent of hate crimes. Completely unrelated issue as far as I can tell.

I don't know why your family has such a tough time in Arizona, IL, but I just spent 4 years in Phoenix, and half the state is Hispanic. If Arpaio was pulling people over for 'Driving While Brown', he'd need to triple the size of the Sheriff's Office. He got accused of profiling for setting up DUI checkpoints in Hispanic neighborhoods, but half the county is Hispanic neighborhoods. How the hell is he supposed to do his job if he can't set foot in half the county without being accused of racism?

The 'Papers please' meme is bogus, based on the law. No cop can walk up to you and check your citizenship. PERIOD. Your jogging story is fictitious.

Actually, less than 1/3 of the county is Hispanic but latinos have 4x greater chance of getting pulled over. So you're wrong about that.
But let's say you're close. That would mean that the number of people in the county being pulled over should be about 50 / 50, right? Oops.
No cop can papers please Hispanics in ol' Joe's county? So if a truck driver pulled into a wiegh station and had committed NO CRIME, and then was asked for ID anyway and produced his Commercial Truck Driver's license, then he should be fine, right? Or if they kept pushing and he produced his insurance and original SS Car, THEN he should be okay right? Hell, he hadn't even committed a crime!
But they hauled him off to jail.
Made his wife lose a day of work, driving home and then to get him out - which took hours after she produced his original birth certificate.
Don't be Brown in Sheriff Joe's town!
Danm verifiable facts!

Oh, and I'm glad you're thinking about me so much, you've memorialized me in your signature. That must have been after Obama signed NDAA and before I saw Mitt's massive flips on, well, everything.

 

[American_Jihad]

Feds end probe of 'America's toughest sheriff' Joe Arpaio; no charges

8/31/12

The federal government has closed a criminal probe of alleged financial misconduct by Arizona lawman Joe Arpaio, who styles himself as "America's toughest sheriff," and no charges will be filed, the U.S. Attorney's Office said on Friday.

---


Feds end probe of 'America's toughest sheriff' Joe Arpaio; no charges - U.S. News

 

[jwoodie]

OMG, profiling!! Let's say you have just been mugged by a tall, blond man in his early 20's with a pony tail. Wouldn't it be terrible if the police stopped and questioned all persons fitting that description? Horror of horrors! Oh, I forgot: Profiling is only bad when applied to certain people...

 

[paulitician]

Feds end probe of 'America's toughest sheriff' Joe Arpaio; no charges

8/31/12

The federal government has closed a criminal probe of alleged financial misconduct by Arizona lawman Joe Arpaio, who styles himself as "America's toughest sheriff," and no charges will be filed, the U.S. Attorney's Office said on Friday.

---


Feds end probe of 'America's toughest sheriff' Joe Arpaio; no charges - U.S. News

Unbelievable! All those Tax Dollars flushed. And the Dear Leader's criminal henchman Holder should be wearing an orange jumpsuit right now. Fuck em.