- Moderator
- #41
What ever you choose to call the Palestinians they are people and descendents of indiginous people who have lived their as long as the indiginous Jews. Just as we don't have the right to decide how Israel chooses to define itself, neither do we have a right to decide how a people will define itself or whether they have a right to live on land they have lived on for hundreds or thousands of years.
Talk about monumental double standards.
As far as a democratic state it is hard to have a truly democratic state, that is also a religious state. I can't think of any examples.
Some of the Arabs who began calling themselves Palestinians are descended from those who lived in the area previously, whereas some moved into the area after the advent of Zionism because of the economic development brought about. They are Arabs, however, and Arabs already control vast amounts of land. I would be happy to point you in the direction of a map if you are unaware of this fact.
They are not all "Arabs" - they are mix of people who have lived there prior to Arab migrations and Arabs. Who cares if "Arabs" already control vast amounts of land? So do European whites. What does it matter? What mattes is that people live there NOW who have lived there for ages and who suddenly cease to count as people having any sort of rights in your mind because they happen to have the wrong pedigree.
As to the Jewish side of the equation, that tiny piece of land that provides them their self determination amounts to less land per capita than is in Arab hands. Also, the state of Israel represents the aspiration of the Jewish people, most of whom are secular. They constitute an ethnicity, as Zionism was and is still a movement for the Jewish ethnicity -- one that genetic studies prove beyond any shadow of a doubt -- so your claim of Israel being a religious state is disingenuous.
So? Israel can have it's state. I think I've already said that. I just think they don't have the rights to the entire enchilada. The rest of it - so what?
As far as being a "religious state" - in many ways it is. Religion governs marriage, and religion drives and supports Zionist settlements and determines who can or can not get the necessary permits for expansion or new settlements. The distinction between Jew as an ethnicity and Jew as a religion is very blurry. If they want to be recognized as a "Jewish state" - it's their choice. But they can't turn around and say religion doesn't enter in to it.