Hamas, Fatah Agree Palestinian Authority To Take Control Of Gaza

[MJB12741]

Does it include a recognition of Israel's right to exist as a state?

Jewish State

It's up to the citizens to decide how they want their state defined. It doesn't matter how others choose to recognize it.

If Israel wants to be recognized as a "Jewish State" then it might have problems also claiming recogniztion as a democratic state. But that is it's choice. IMO - it needs to be recognized as a soveriegn nation that has a right to exist, not be driven out or destroyed.

The Palestinians aren't going anywhere. Israel isn't going anywhere. Both sides have to find a way to deal with that reality in a way that does not involve genocide or ethnic cleansing..

True, neither side is going anywhere. Perhaps it would be wise for Hamas to first publically proclaim to the world their desire to put an end to their charter to annihilate Israel.

 

[Coyote]

Does it include a recognition of Israel's right to exist as a state?

Jewish State

It's up to the citizens to decide how they want their state defined. It doesn't matter how others choose to recognize it.

If Israel wants to be recognized as a "Jewish State" then it might have problems also claiming recogniztion as a democratic state. But that is it's choice. IMO - it needs to be recognized as a soveriegn nation that has a right to exist, not be driven out or destroyed.

The Palestinians aren't going anywhere. Israel isn't going anywhere. Both sides have to find a way to deal with that reality in a way that does not involve genocide or ethnic cleansing..

True, neither side is going anywhere. Perhaps it would be wise for Hamas to first publically proclaim to the world their desire to put an end to their charter to annihilate Israel.

Basically...that was what I was wondering about. In order to be even minimally credible, Hamas has to take that step.

 

[Ropey]

True, neither side is going anywhere. Perhaps it would be wise for Hamas to first publically proclaim to the world their desire to put an end to their charter to annihilate Israel.

This would be a grand first step that would certainly initiate a grand response from Israel, imho.

They say it is merely a historical document now and doesn't matter.

What matters is the disavowal of it by changing it.

 

[Coyote]

If Israel wants to be recognized as a "Jewish State" then it might have problems also claiming recogniztion as a democratic state.

I do find it odd how people can create such monumental double standards as they do. They advocate for a Palestinian state for a people who were created out of whole cloth just a few decades ago, but when it comes to a state for Jewish people -- folks who have existed as a people for over 3000 years -- suddenly, it is non Democratic to even acknowledge it as such.

What ever you choose to call the Palestinians they are people and descendents of indiginous people who have lived their as long as the indiginous Jews. Just as we don't have the right to decide how Israel chooses to define itself, neither do we have a right to decide how a people will define itself or whether they have a right to live on land they have lived on for hundreds or thousands of years.

Talk about monumental double standards.

As far as a democratic state it is hard to have a truly democratic state, that is also a religious state. I can't think of any examples.

 

[Ropey]

Saudi Arabia was called Arabia before the Kingdom Empire of the House of Saud renamed it. Arabs are indigenous to Arabia.

Hence the name.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

What ever you choose to call the Palestinians they are people and descendents of indiginous people who have lived their as long as the indiginous Jews. Just as we don't have the right to decide how Israel chooses to define itself, neither do we have a right to decide how a people will define itself or whether they have a right to live on land they have lived on for hundreds or thousands of years.

Talk about monumental double standards.

As far as a democratic state it is hard to have a truly democratic state, that is also a religious state. I can't think of any examples.

Some of the Arabs who began calling themselves Palestinians are descended from those who lived in the area previously, whereas some moved into the area after the advent of Zionism because of the economic development brought about. They are Arabs, however, and Arabs already control vast amounts of land. I would be happy to point you in the direction of a map if you are unaware of this fact.

As to the Jewish side of the equation, that tiny piece of land that provides them their self determination amounts to less land per capita than is in Arab hands. Also, the state of Israel represents the aspiration of the Jewish people, most of whom are secular. They constitute an ethnicity, as Zionism was and is still a movement for the Jewish ethnicity -- one that genetic studies prove beyond any shadow of a doubt -- so your claim of Israel being a religious state is disingenuous.

 

[Penelope]

Well perhaps we can also wonder what would things be like now if the radical fanatic Yigal Amir hadn't killed PM Yitzhak Rabin, and if Peres would of got back in instead of PM Bibi, perhaps things would of been different.

I think the lines need to be redrawn and the occupation to be lifted before they will agree to anything.

 

[Daniyel]

Well perhaps we can also wonder what would things be like now if the radical fanatic Yigal Amir hadn't killed PM Yitzhak Rabin, and if Peres would of got back in instead of PM Bibi, perhaps things would of been different.

I think the lines need to be redrawn and the occupation to be lifted before they will agree to anything.

Incorrect, except few attempts to establish a solid leadership for the Palestinians which is what all have done before regardless of political position,Rabin was no different than any other past nor present PM, and was by the way Peres political enemy.
This is fascinating that people tend to hang on Rabin, make no mistake it was a political murderer (terrorism) but spare me the what if, Rabin's line was decisive, one step against Israel and the price would be harsh, you can link Rabin to Bennett.

 

[Penelope]

Well perhaps we can also wonder what would things be like now if the radical fanatic Yigal Amir hadn't killed PM Yitzhak Rabin, and if Peres would of got back in instead of PM Bibi, perhaps things would of been different.

I think the lines need to be redrawn and the occupation to be lifted before they will agree to anything.

Incorrect, except few attempts to establish a solid leadership for the Palestinians which is what all have done before regardless of political position,Rabin was no different than any other past nor present PM, and was by the way Peres political enemy.
This is fascinating that people tend to hang on Rabin, make no mistake it was a political murderer (terrorism) but spare me the what if, Rabin's line was decisive, one step against Israel and the price would be harsh, you can link Rabin to Bennett.

Yes well he use to be called what the bone crusher, so signing the accords was just for show. Ok , I do believe that.

 

[MJB12741]

Well perhaps we can also wonder what would things be like now if the radical fanatic Yigal Amir hadn't killed PM Yitzhak Rabin, and if Peres would of got back in instead of PM Bibi, perhaps things would of been different.

I think the lines need to be redrawn and the occupation to be lifted before they will agree to anything.

Bibi should be tried & convicted for war crimes against his own Israeli citizens. What kind of leader provokes Palestinians into hatred & violence with peace offerings, a security fence & land concessions so they can remain in Israel?

 

[Phoenall]

Does it include a recognition of Israel's right to exist as a state?

Jewish State

It's up to the citizens to decide how they want their state defined. It doesn't matter how others choose to recognize it.

If Israel wants to be recognized as a "Jewish State" then it might have problems also claiming recogniztion as a democratic state. But that is it's choice. IMO - it needs to be recognized as a soveriegn nation that has a right to exist, not be driven out or destroyed.

The Palestinians aren't going anywhere. Israel isn't going anywhere. Both sides have to find a way to deal with that reality in a way that does not involve genocide or ethnic cleansing..

WHY ? When the LoN and UN declared that the resurrected NATIONAL HOME OF THE JEWS would be THE Jewish state .

The Palestinians need to stop putting pre conditions in place before they might talk peace and mutual borders.

 

[Penelope]

Well perhaps we can also wonder what would things be like now if the radical fanatic Yigal Amir hadn't killed PM Yitzhak Rabin, and if Peres would of got back in instead of PM Bibi, perhaps things would of been different.

I think the lines need to be redrawn and the occupation to be lifted before they will agree to anything.

Bibi should be tried & convicted for war crimes against his own Israeli citizens. What kind of leader provokes Palestinians into hatred & violence with peace offerings, a security fence & land concessions so they can remain in Israel?

Yes well what was he doing from 1999- 2002.

 

[P F Tinmore]

If Israel wants to be recognized as a "Jewish State" then it might have problems also claiming recogniztion as a democratic state.

I do find it odd how people can create such monumental double standards as they do. They advocate for a Palestinian state for a people who were created out of whole cloth just a few decades ago, but when it comes to a state for Jewish people -- folks who have existed as a people for over 3000 years -- suddenly, it is non Democratic to even acknowledge it as such.

What ever you choose to call the Palestinians they are people and descendents of indiginous people who have lived their as long as the indiginous Jews. Just as we don't have the right to decide how Israel chooses to define itself, neither do we have a right to decide how a people will define itself or whether they have a right to live on land they have lived on for hundreds or thousands of years.

Talk about monumental double standards.

As far as a democratic state it is hard to have a truly democratic state, that is also a religious state. I can't think of any examples.

Indeed, and shouldn't the indigenous population have at least an equal say as to what kind of state will be in their homeland?

 

[Coyote]

Does it include a recognition of Israel's right to exist as a state?

Jewish State

It's up to the citizens to decide how they want their state defined. It doesn't matter how others choose to recognize it.

If Israel wants to be recognized as a "Jewish State" then it might have problems also claiming recogniztion as a democratic state. But that is it's choice. IMO - it needs to be recognized as a soveriegn nation that has a right to exist, not be driven out or destroyed.

The Palestinians aren't going anywhere. Israel isn't going anywhere. Both sides have to find a way to deal with that reality in a way that does not involve genocide or ethnic cleansing..

WHY ? When the LoN and UN declared that the resurrected NATIONAL HOME OF THE JEWS would be THE Jewish state .

The Palestinians need to stop putting pre conditions in place before they might talk peace and mutual borders.

Both Israel and the Palestinians have a long history of demanding preconditions...just saying....

I don't think it matters what others choose to recognize Israel AS as long as it's recognized as a sovereign entity with a right to exist.

 

[Coyote]

If Israel wants to be recognized as a "Jewish State" then it might have problems also claiming recogniztion as a democratic state.

I do find it odd how people can create such monumental double standards as they do. They advocate for a Palestinian state for a people who were created out of whole cloth just a few decades ago, but when it comes to a state for Jewish people -- folks who have existed as a people for over 3000 years -- suddenly, it is non Democratic to even acknowledge it as such.

What ever you choose to call the Palestinians they are people and descendents of indiginous people who have lived their as long as the indiginous Jews. Just as we don't have the right to decide how Israel chooses to define itself, neither do we have a right to decide how a people will define itself or whether they have a right to live on land they have lived on for hundreds or thousands of years.

Talk about monumental double standards.

As far as a democratic state it is hard to have a truly democratic state, that is also a religious state. I can't think of any examples.

Indeed, and shouldn't the indigenous population have at least an equal say as to what kind of state will be in their homeland?

I think it's too late for that. Israel exists and isn't going to go away. Too many generations have lived and died there. The Jews also represent an indiginous population. I think 60 years ago...one state could have been possible

Now? Do you think they could exist in one state without destroying that state?

 

[P F Tinmore]

If Israel wants to be recognized as a "Jewish State" then it might have problems also claiming recogniztion as a democratic state.

I do find it odd how people can create such monumental double standards as they do. They advocate for a Palestinian state for a people who were created out of whole cloth just a few decades ago, but when it comes to a state for Jewish people -- folks who have existed as a people for over 3000 years -- suddenly, it is non Democratic to even acknowledge it as such.

What ever you choose to call the Palestinians they are people and descendents of indiginous people who have lived their as long as the indiginous Jews. Just as we don't have the right to decide how Israel chooses to define itself, neither do we have a right to decide how a people will define itself or whether they have a right to live on land they have lived on for hundreds or thousands of years.

Talk about monumental double standards.

As far as a democratic state it is hard to have a truly democratic state, that is also a religious state. I can't think of any examples.

Indeed, and shouldn't the indigenous population have at least an equal say as to what kind of state will be in their homeland?

I think it's too late for that. Israel exists and isn't going to go away. Too many generations have lived and died there. The Jews also represent an indiginous population. I think 60 years ago...one state could have been possible

Now? Do you think they could exist in one state without destroying that state?

Ireland is still there. South Africa is still there.

Why should the long standing indigenous population take a back seat to the recent arrivals?

Most Palestinian supporters realize that most Israelis were born there and have equal rights to the natives.

 

[teddyearp]

Yes exactly what PM Bibi would say. Wiki art. , appears to be wrote by Pals, using mainly all Israel footnote links (please check).
I am confused, on whether the 3 teenage kidnappings were part of Protective Edge , or what started Protective Edge?

Fatah-Hamas unity government will strengthen terror, says Netanyahu
Israeli prime minister brands Hamas a terrorist organization and says the unity government should not be recognized

The Israeli prime minister, Binyamin Netanyahu, has called on the international community not to recognize a Palestinian government made up of the former rival factions Fatah and Hamas

In a statement issued before the expected announcement of the full Palestinian cabinet on Monday, Netanyahu again branded Hamas a terrorist organization and said the new government would strengthen terror not peace.

Via his Twitter account he said the unity government rested "on Hamas", which "was calling for the destruction of Israel". He said the international community should not embrace it.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/01/fatah-hamas-unity-government-netanyahu-terror
Sunday 1 June 2014 08.09 EDT

2014 Israel–Gaza conflict
The agreement was expected by some[who?] to have a significant impact on the current round of peace talks between Mahmoud Abbas' Palestinian Authority and Israel, and shortly after the announcement of the agreement, Israel launched an airstrike in the northern Gaza Strip that injured four people, according to medical officials

The Palestinian unity government was sworn in by 2 June 2014[98][99] and Israel announced it would not negotiate any peace deal with the new government and would push punitive measures.

On 4 June, the day before Naksa Day, the Israeli Housing and Construction Ministry published tenders for 1,500 settlement units in the West Bank and East Jerusalem in a move Minister Uri Ariel said was an "appropriate Zionist response to the Palestinian terror government."


On 12 June 2014, three Israeli teenagers were abducted in the West Bank: Naftali Fraenkel, Gilad Shaer, and Eyal Yifrah. Israel blamed Hamas, and the IDF stated that the two men Israel suspects of having kidnapped the teenagers were known members of Hamas

2014 Israel Gaza conflict - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Susan(?) Please tell me how your post has any relevance to this thread. The links in the OP are dated Sept 2014 and all the links and articles in your post are dated June 2104.

Again, Penelope shows her lack of reading and comprehension skills.

 

[teddyearp]

Yes exactly what PM Bibi would say. Wiki art. , appears to be wrote by Pals, using mainly all Israel footnote links (please check).
I am confused, on whether the 3 teenage kidnappings were part of Protective Edge , or what started Protective Edge?

Fatah-Hamas unity government will strengthen terror, says Netanyahu
Israeli prime minister brands Hamas a terrorist organization and says the unity government should not be recognized

The Israeli prime minister, Binyamin Netanyahu, has called on the international community not to recognize a Palestinian government made up of the former rival factions Fatah and Hamas

In a statement issued before the expected announcement of the full Palestinian cabinet on Monday, Netanyahu again branded Hamas a terrorist organization and said the new government would strengthen terror not peace.

Via his Twitter account he said the unity government rested "on Hamas", which "was calling for the destruction of Israel". He said the international community should not embrace it.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/01/fatah-hamas-unity-government-netanyahu-terror
Sunday 1 June 2014 08.09 EDT

2014 Israel–Gaza conflict
The agreement was expected by some[who?] to have a significant impact on the current round of peace talks between Mahmoud Abbas' Palestinian Authority and Israel, and shortly after the announcement of the agreement, Israel launched an airstrike in the northern Gaza Strip that injured four people, according to medical officials

The Palestinian unity government was sworn in by 2 June 2014[98][99] and Israel announced it would not negotiate any peace deal with the new government and would push punitive measures.

On 4 June, the day before Naksa Day, the Israeli Housing and Construction Ministry published tenders for 1,500 settlement units in the West Bank and East Jerusalem in a move Minister Uri Ariel said was an "appropriate Zionist response to the Palestinian terror government."


On 12 June 2014, three Israeli teenagers were abducted in the West Bank: Naftali Fraenkel, Gilad Shaer, and Eyal Yifrah. Israel blamed Hamas, and the IDF stated that the two men Israel suspects of having kidnapped the teenagers were known members of Hamas

2014 Israel Gaza conflict - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

It was started because of rockets and mortars being fired into Israel.

No it wasn't. Israel started it as punishment for Fatah, Hamas , and the Plo getting together. It all backfired now.

When one thinks about it, the death of those 3 teens, (whoever did it ) is really the Israel gov. fault, isn't it?

So everything was a total waste, back to square one.

Good fucking grief. Coyote, can we have the old rep system back now? Yet? At least a disagree red x would be nice!

 

[teddyearp]

Well perhaps we can also wonder what would things be like now if the radical fanatic Yigal Amir hadn't killed PM Yitzhak Rabin, and if Peres would of got back in instead of PM Bibi, perhaps things would of been different.

I think the lines need to be redrawn and the occupation to be lifted before they will agree to anything.

 

[teddyearp]

Wow, just wow. Penelope and Tinmore come in here with the usual tactics. Deflect, confuse, detract. I have noticed that it usually starts with a deflection to something not at all related to the topic posted in the OP of the thread. Then as others get 'caught in the web' it usually ends up with the poor Palestinians as the victims.

Well, isn't that exactly what Hamas, Hezbollah, and even Yasir Arafat wanted? Victims!

Get a fucking grip. Stand up and throw off the chains of oppression Palestine (and I mean your so-called leaders) and become some body!