Gun murder is up in democrat party cities, but gun crime in general is down....... More guns, less gun crime....

[JoeB131]

Hey...dipshit.......the Janet Reno, Bill clinton and the FBI killed 22 children.....

Except THREE investigations, one led by Republican John Danforth, found the Davidians killed themselves and their children...

Not that taking out 22 future cultists was a bad thing. They'd have just grown up to be criminals.... Isn't that the excuse you guys use when cops kill kids? (Oh, wait, they were white? )

 

[watchingfromafar]

Yep....and idiots like you want to exploit mass public shootings in order to demand gun confiscation and banning....

Gun control is nothing new.

Gun Control Is as Old as the Wild Old West
Dodge City in 1878 (Wikimedia Commons)

Contrary to the popular imagination, bearing arms on the frontier was a heavily regulated business
image: https://thumbs-prod.si-cdn.com/7hLl651L ... 835852.jpg

The “Old West” conjures up all sorts of imagery, but broadly, the term is used to evoke life among the crusty prospectors, threadbare gold panners, madams of brothels, and six-shooter-packing cowboys in small frontier towns – such as Tombstone, Deadwood, Dodge City, or Abilene, to name a few. One other thing these cities had in common: strict gun control laws.

Laws regulating ownership and carry of firearms, apart from the U.S. Constitution's Second Amendment, were passed at a local level rather than by Congress. “Gun control laws were adopted pretty quickly in these places,” says Winkler. “Most were adopted by municipal governments exercising self-control and self-determination.”

The practice was started in Southern states, which were among the first to enact laws against concealed carry of guns and knives, in the early 1800s. -- The Battle Over the Right to Bear Arms in America, points to an 1840 Alabama court that, in upholding its state ban, ruled it was a state's right to regulate where and how a citizen could carry, and that the state constitution's allowance of personal firearms “is not to bear arms upon all occasions and in all places.”

Contrary to the popular imagination, bearing arms on the frontier was a heavily regulated business

Dodge City in 1878 (Wikimedia Commons)
Looking east on Dodge City’s Front Street, 1878.
Dodge City, 1878
The sign warns visitors to check their guns.
Buffalo Hide Yard in Dodge City, Kansas 1878
Dodge City Kansas 1874, courtesy Ford County Historical Society

It's October 26, 1881, in Tombstone, and Arizona
The laws of Tombstone at the time required visitors, upon entering town to disarm, either at a hotel or a lawman's office. (Residents of many famed cattle towns, such as Dodge City, Abilene, and Deadwood, had similar restrictions.)
image: https://public-media.si-cdn.com/fil...d ... lanton.jpg

"Tombstone had much more restrictive laws on carrying guns in public in the 1880s than it has today,” Same goes for most of the New West, to varying degrees, in the once-rowdy frontier towns of Nevada, Kansas, Montana, and South Dakota.

Dodge City, Kansas, formed a municipal government in 1878. According to Stephen Aron, a professor of history at UCLA, the first law passed was one prohibiting the carry of guns in town, likely by civic leaders and influential merchants who wanted people to move there, Cultivating a reputation of peace and stability was necessary, even in boisterous towns, if it were to become anything more transient than a one-industry boom town.

Laws regulating ownership and carry of firearms, apart from the U.S. Constitution's Second Amendment, were passed at a local level rather than by Congress. “Gun control laws were adopted pretty quickly in these places,” says Winkler. “Most were adopted by municipal governments exercising self-control and self-determination.” Carrying any kind of weapon, guns or knives, was not allowed other than outside town borders and inside the home. When visitors left their weapons with a law officer upon entering town, they'd receive a token, like a coat check, which they'd exchange for their guns when leaving town.

“Having a firearm to protect yourself in the lawless wilderness from wild animals, hostile native tribes, and outlaws was a wise idea. But when you came into town, you had to either check your guns if you were a visitor or keep your guns at home if you were a resident.”
Gun Control Is as Old as the Old West

Did the Wild West Have More Gun Control Than We Do Today?
The answer is YES. When you entered a frontier town, you were legally required to leave your guns at the stables on the outskirts of town or drop them off with the sheriff, who would give you a token in exchange. You checked your guns then like you’d check your overcoat today at a Boston restaurant in winter. Visitors were welcome, but their guns were not.
While people were allowed to have guns at home for self-protection, frontier towns usually barred anyone but law enforcement from carrying guns in public.

When Dodge City residents organized their municipal government, do you know what the very first law they passed was? A gun control law. —also barred the carrying of guns openly.

Like any law regulating things that are small and easy to conceal, the gun control of the Wild West wasn’t always perfectly enforced. But statistics show that, next to drunk and disorderly conduct, the most common cause of arrest was illegally carrying a firearm. Sheriffs and marshals took gun control seriously.
Did the Wild West Have More Gun Control Than We Do Today?

Illinois town bans assault weapons, will fine those who keep them
The town of Deerfield, Ill., has moved to ban assault weapons, including the AR-15 used in the school shooting in Parkland, Florida, claiming the measure will make the town more safe from mass shootings.

The ordinance was passed unanimously Monday by the Deerfield Village Board. It states the move is in the best interest of public health and will spur a culture change toward "the normative value that assault weapons should have no role or purpose in civil society."

It also takes a swing at a popular reading of the Second Amendment, stating the weapons are "not reasonably necessary to protect an individual's right of self-defense" or to preserve a well-regulated militia.
Illinois town bans assault weapons, will fine those who keep them

Chicago suburb bans assault weapons in response to Parkland shooting
With the future of federal gun control legislation uncertain, an affluent Chicago suburb this week took the aggressive step of banning assault weapons within its borders, in what local officials said was a direct response to the mass shooting at a Parkland, Fla., high school earlier this year.

Officials in Deerfield, Ill., unanimously approved the ordinance, which prohibits the possession, manufacture or sale of a range of firearms, as well as large-capacity magazines. Residents of the 19,000-person village have until June 13 to remove the guns from village limits or face up to $1,000 per day in fines.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...h ... db16134355

Seattle will require gun owners to lock up their firearms, after the City Council voted unanimously Monday to pass legislation proposed by Mayor Jenny Durkan. Starting 180 days after Durkan signs the legislation, it will be a civil infraction to store a gun without the firearm being secured in a locked container.
The legislation will apply only to guns kept somewhere, rather than those carried by or under the control of their owners.
Also under the legislation, it will be a civil infraction when an owner knows or should know that a minor, “at-risk person” or unauthorized user is likely to access a gun and such a person actually does access the weapon.

The legislation allows fines up to $500 when a gun isn’t locked up,
up to $1,000 when a prohibited person accesses a firearm
and up to $10,000 when a prohibited person uses the weapon to hurt someone or commit a crime.
Gun owners face fines up to $10,000 for not locking up their guns under new Seattle law

What has changed from then to now??​

Pointing out the actual number of deaths by actual mass public shootings versus other types of deaths, shows that mass public shootings are the rarest of rare events, and that with a total of 43 people murdered in mass public

You are dodging the point. This is not only about “mass shootings”.

There were 39,707 deaths from firearms in the U.S. in 2019. Sixty percent of deaths from firearms in the U.S. are suicides. In 2019, 23,941 people in the U.S. died by firearm suicide.1 Firearms are the means in approximately half of suicides nationwide.

In 2019, 14,861 people in the U.S. died from firearm homicide, accounting for 37% of total deaths from firearms. Firearms were the means for about 75% of homicides in 2018.
There are approximately 115,000 non-fatal firearm injuries in the U.S. each year.
Facts and Figures

The truth will set you free

shootings in 2021...a realistic understanding that deer kill 200 people a year,

We eat deer, only cannibals eat people

Cannibalism is the act of consuming another individual of the same species as food. Human cannibalism is well documented, both in ancient and in recent times.
Cannibalism - Wikipedia

-

shows that using mass public shootings to justify taking guns away from millions of Americans is just stupid....

Stop with the bla, pba, bla. This is NOT about "mass shootings"
-

 

[2aguy]

Gun control is nothing new.

Gun Control Is as Old as the Wild Old West
Dodge City in 1878 (Wikimedia Commons)

Contrary to the popular imagination, bearing arms on the frontier was a heavily regulated business
image: https://thumbs-prod.si-cdn.com/7hLl651L ... 835852.jpg

The “Old West” conjures up all sorts of imagery, but broadly, the term is used to evoke life among the crusty prospectors, threadbare gold panners, madams of brothels, and six-shooter-packing cowboys in small frontier towns – such as Tombstone, Deadwood, Dodge City, or Abilene, to name a few. One other thing these cities had in common: strict gun control laws.

Laws regulating ownership and carry of firearms, apart from the U.S. Constitution's Second Amendment, were passed at a local level rather than by Congress. “Gun control laws were adopted pretty quickly in these places,” says Winkler. “Most were adopted by municipal governments exercising self-control and self-determination.”

The practice was started in Southern states, which were among the first to enact laws against concealed carry of guns and knives, in the early 1800s. -- The Battle Over the Right to Bear Arms in America, points to an 1840 Alabama court that, in upholding its state ban, ruled it was a state's right to regulate where and how a citizen could carry, and that the state constitution's allowance of personal firearms “is not to bear arms upon all occasions and in all places.”

Contrary to the popular imagination, bearing arms on the frontier was a heavily regulated business

Dodge City in 1878 (Wikimedia Commons)
Looking east on Dodge City’s Front Street, 1878.
Dodge City, 1878
The sign warns visitors to check their guns.
Buffalo Hide Yard in Dodge City, Kansas 1878
Dodge City Kansas 1874, courtesy Ford County Historical Society

It's October 26, 1881, in Tombstone, and Arizona
The laws of Tombstone at the time required visitors, upon entering town to disarm, either at a hotel or a lawman's office. (Residents of many famed cattle towns, such as Dodge City, Abilene, and Deadwood, had similar restrictions.)
image: https://public-media.si-cdn.com/fil...d ... lanton.jpg

"Tombstone had much more restrictive laws on carrying guns in public in the 1880s than it has today,” Same goes for most of the New West, to varying degrees, in the once-rowdy frontier towns of Nevada, Kansas, Montana, and South Dakota.

Dodge City, Kansas, formed a municipal government in 1878. According to Stephen Aron, a professor of history at UCLA, the first law passed was one prohibiting the carry of guns in town, likely by civic leaders and influential merchants who wanted people to move there, Cultivating a reputation of peace and stability was necessary, even in boisterous towns, if it were to become anything more transient than a one-industry boom town.

Laws regulating ownership and carry of firearms, apart from the U.S. Constitution's Second Amendment, were passed at a local level rather than by Congress. “Gun control laws were adopted pretty quickly in these places,” says Winkler. “Most were adopted by municipal governments exercising self-control and self-determination.” Carrying any kind of weapon, guns or knives, was not allowed other than outside town borders and inside the home. When visitors left their weapons with a law officer upon entering town, they'd receive a token, like a coat check, which they'd exchange for their guns when leaving town.

“Having a firearm to protect yourself in the lawless wilderness from wild animals, hostile native tribes, and outlaws was a wise idea. But when you came into town, you had to either check your guns if you were a visitor or keep your guns at home if you were a resident.”
Gun Control Is as Old as the Old West

Did the Wild West Have More Gun Control Than We Do Today?
The answer is YES. When you entered a frontier town, you were legally required to leave your guns at the stables on the outskirts of town or drop them off with the sheriff, who would give you a token in exchange. You checked your guns then like you’d check your overcoat today at a Boston restaurant in winter. Visitors were welcome, but their guns were not.
While people were allowed to have guns at home for self-protection, frontier towns usually barred anyone but law enforcement from carrying guns in public.

When Dodge City residents organized their municipal government, do you know what the very first law they passed was? A gun control law. —also barred the carrying of guns openly.

Like any law regulating things that are small and easy to conceal, the gun control of the Wild West wasn’t always perfectly enforced. But statistics show that, next to drunk and disorderly conduct, the most common cause of arrest was illegally carrying a firearm. Sheriffs and marshals took gun control seriously.
Did the Wild West Have More Gun Control Than We Do Today?

Illinois town bans assault weapons, will fine those who keep them
The town of Deerfield, Ill., has moved to ban assault weapons, including the AR-15 used in the school shooting in Parkland, Florida, claiming the measure will make the town more safe from mass shootings.

The ordinance was passed unanimously Monday by the Deerfield Village Board. It states the move is in the best interest of public health and will spur a culture change toward "the normative value that assault weapons should have no role or purpose in civil society."

It also takes a swing at a popular reading of the Second Amendment, stating the weapons are "not reasonably necessary to protect an individual's right of self-defense" or to preserve a well-regulated militia.
Illinois town bans assault weapons, will fine those who keep them

Chicago suburb bans assault weapons in response to Parkland shooting
With the future of federal gun control legislation uncertain, an affluent Chicago suburb this week took the aggressive step of banning assault weapons within its borders, in what local officials said was a direct response to the mass shooting at a Parkland, Fla., high school earlier this year.

Officials in Deerfield, Ill., unanimously approved the ordinance, which prohibits the possession, manufacture or sale of a range of firearms, as well as large-capacity magazines. Residents of the 19,000-person village have until June 13 to remove the guns from village limits or face up to $1,000 per day in fines.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...h ... db16134355

Seattle will require gun owners to lock up their firearms, after the City Council voted unanimously Monday to pass legislation proposed by Mayor Jenny Durkan. Starting 180 days after Durkan signs the legislation, it will be a civil infraction to store a gun without the firearm being secured in a locked container.
The legislation will apply only to guns kept somewhere, rather than those carried by or under the control of their owners.
Also under the legislation, it will be a civil infraction when an owner knows or should know that a minor, “at-risk person” or unauthorized user is likely to access a gun and such a person actually does access the weapon.

The legislation allows fines up to $500 when a gun isn’t locked up,
up to $1,000 when a prohibited person accesses a firearm
and up to $10,000 when a prohibited person uses the weapon to hurt someone or commit a crime.
Gun owners face fines up to $10,000 for not locking up their guns under new Seattle law

What has changed from then to now??​

You are dodging the point. This is not only about “mass shootings”.

There were 39,707 deaths from firearms in the U.S. in 2019. Sixty percent of deaths from firearms in the U.S. are suicides. In 2019, 23,941 people in the U.S. died by firearm suicide.1 Firearms are the means in approximately half of suicides nationwide.

In 2019, 14,861 people in the U.S. died from firearm homicide, accounting for 37% of total deaths from firearms. Firearms were the means for about 75% of homicides in 2018.
There are approximately 115,000 non-fatal firearm injuries in the U.S. each year.
Facts and Figures

The truth will set you free

We eat deer, only cannibals eat people

Cannibalism is the act of consuming another individual of the same species as food. Human cannibalism is well documented, both in ancient and in recent times.
Cannibalism - Wikipedia

-

Stop with the bla, pba, bla. This is NOT about "mass shootings"
-

You are another moron......

The New York Times Botches America’s History With The Gun

Second, the idea that “Gun control laws were ubiquitous” in the 19th century is the work of politically motivated historians who cobble together every minor local restriction they can find in an attempt to create the impression that gun control was the norm. If this were true, Kristof wouldn’t need to jump to 1879 to offer his first specific case.

Visitors to Wichita, Kan., had to check their revolvers at police headquarters. As for Dodge City, a symbol of the Wild West, a photo shows a sign on main street in 1879 warning: “The Carrying of Fire Arms Strictly Prohibited.”


This talking point has been trotted out for years because it’s the closest thing anyone can find to resemble gun control in the Old West — a picture. But we don’t even know how rigidly the law was enforced, for how long, or if ever. We certainly don’t know that the guns were dropped off at “police headquarters.”

Dodge City-type ordinances—and those of some other towns—typically applied to the areas north of the “deadline,” which was the railroad tracks and a kind of red-light district. By 1879, Dodge City had nearly 20 businesses licensed to sell liquor and many whorehouses teeming with intoxicated young men. It was reasonable that these businesses wouldn’t want armed men with revolvers packed into their establishments.
However, the men voluntarily abandoned their weapons in exchange for entertainment and drink—just as they do today when entering establishments that prohibit the carrying of firearms. Those weapons were handed back to them when they were done. Not in their wildest imaginations would they have entertained the notion of asking the government for permission—getting a license or undergoing a background check—to own a firearm.

In the rest of the city, as with almost every city in the West, guns were allowed, and people walked around with them freely and openly. They bought them freely and openly. Even children could buy them. A man could buy a Colt or Remington or Winchester, and he could buy as many as he liked without anyone taking notice.


The fact is that in the 19th century there were no statewide or territory-wide gun control laws for citizens, and certainly no federal laws. Nor was there a single case challenging the idea of the individual right of gun ownership. Guns were romanticized in the literature and art, and the era’s greatest engineers designed and sold them. All the while, American leaders continued to praise the Second Amendment as a bulwark against tyranny.

Those who praised this right, incidentally, include numerous post-Civil War civil rights activists, who offered particularly powerful arguments for the importance of the Second Amendment. Most gun-control regulations that did exist, after all, were used for subjugating blacks and Indians.
================

Most of the gun control laws in the Old West, if they existed at all, had nothing to do with confiscation or restrictions on gun type. They had more to do with gun use by restricting and prohibiting firing pistols in city streets. And, while few opponents of gun control today would object to limitations on discharging firearms in a busy intersection, gun control laws of this extent were largely unheard of in most American cities. In fact, they were even unusual in the Old West, and using the gun control ordinance from Tombstone as an example, they were proven ineffective.
-----

There were other frontier towns with gun control restrictions similar to Tombstone. Most made it unlawful to carry in the hand or upon the person any deadly weapon within the limits of said city, without first obtaining a permit in writing.



But, in those towns, as in Tombstone, in the closest equivalents to a “gun-free zone” in the 19th century, such gun control measures did little to stem gun violence, and likely provoked the infamous kerfuffle at the O.K. Corral.
----

Lots of guns, not a lot of crime​

Mass violence, like what took place at the O.K. Corral, was actually infrequent. Moreover, the Old West reputation for lawlessness is unwarranted, despite, at times, an elevated number of homicides.

Crime such as rape and robberies occurred at a much lower rate than in modern America — certainly lower than in the 1970s and 1980s, when the nation was wracked by a surge in criminality. It is also worth noting that crime and gun violence has fallen steeply since the 1990s, even as gun ownership has increased dramatically.

 

[watchingfromafar]

You are another moron......

It’s Official: Gun Deaths Hit an All-Time High in 2020
CDC data shows that more than 45,000 Americans died by gunfire for the first time, driven by a spike in homicides.
By Jennifer Mascia Jan 7, 2022
https://www.thetrace.org/2022/01/gun-violence-homicide-suicide-cdc-data-2020/
2agtoyoutwo
BTW:
just joking
-

 

[M14 Shooter]

In the wild west anyone carrying a gun in a public place was fined up to $10,000
A public place includes streets, community places and malls.
It is a simple law, and our cities should enact this law now!!!!!

You know that in most cities, it is perfectly legal to carry a gun.
Right?

 

[Blues Man]

Gun control is nothing new.

Gun Control Is as Old as the Wild Old West
Dodge City in 1878 (Wikimedia Commons)

Contrary to the popular imagination, bearing arms on the frontier was a heavily regulated business
image: https://thumbs-prod.si-cdn.com/7hLl651L ... 835852.jpg

The “Old West” conjures up all sorts of imagery, but broadly, the term is used to evoke life among the crusty prospectors, threadbare gold panners, madams of brothels, and six-shooter-packing cowboys in small frontier towns – such as Tombstone, Deadwood, Dodge City, or Abilene, to name a few. One other thing these cities had in common: strict gun control laws.

Laws regulating ownership and carry of firearms, apart from the U.S. Constitution's Second Amendment, were passed at a local level rather than by Congress. “Gun control laws were adopted pretty quickly in these places,” says Winkler. “Most were adopted by municipal governments exercising self-control and self-determination.”

The practice was started in Southern states, which were among the first to enact laws against concealed carry of guns and knives, in the early 1800s. -- The Battle Over the Right to Bear Arms in America, points to an 1840 Alabama court that, in upholding its state ban, ruled it was a state's right to regulate where and how a citizen could carry, and that the state constitution's allowance of personal firearms “is not to bear arms upon all occasions and in all places.”

Contrary to the popular imagination, bearing arms on the frontier was a heavily regulated business

Dodge City in 1878 (Wikimedia Commons)
Looking east on Dodge City’s Front Street, 1878.
Dodge City, 1878
The sign warns visitors to check their guns.
Buffalo Hide Yard in Dodge City, Kansas 1878
Dodge City Kansas 1874, courtesy Ford County Historical Society

It's October 26, 1881, in Tombstone, and Arizona
The laws of Tombstone at the time required visitors, upon entering town to disarm, either at a hotel or a lawman's office. (Residents of many famed cattle towns, such as Dodge City, Abilene, and Deadwood, had similar restrictions.)
image: https://public-media.si-cdn.com/fil...d ... lanton.jpg

"Tombstone had much more restrictive laws on carrying guns in public in the 1880s than it has today,” Same goes for most of the New West, to varying degrees, in the once-rowdy frontier towns of Nevada, Kansas, Montana, and South Dakota.

Dodge City, Kansas, formed a municipal government in 1878. According to Stephen Aron, a professor of history at UCLA, the first law passed was one prohibiting the carry of guns in town, likely by civic leaders and influential merchants who wanted people to move there, Cultivating a reputation of peace and stability was necessary, even in boisterous towns, if it were to become anything more transient than a one-industry boom town.

Laws regulating ownership and carry of firearms, apart from the U.S. Constitution's Second Amendment, were passed at a local level rather than by Congress. “Gun control laws were adopted pretty quickly in these places,” says Winkler. “Most were adopted by municipal governments exercising self-control and self-determination.” Carrying any kind of weapon, guns or knives, was not allowed other than outside town borders and inside the home. When visitors left their weapons with a law officer upon entering town, they'd receive a token, like a coat check, which they'd exchange for their guns when leaving town.

“Having a firearm to protect yourself in the lawless wilderness from wild animals, hostile native tribes, and outlaws was a wise idea. But when you came into town, you had to either check your guns if you were a visitor or keep your guns at home if you were a resident.”
Gun Control Is as Old as the Old West

Did the Wild West Have More Gun Control Than We Do Today?
The answer is YES. When you entered a frontier town, you were legally required to leave your guns at the stables on the outskirts of town or drop them off with the sheriff, who would give you a token in exchange. You checked your guns then like you’d check your overcoat today at a Boston restaurant in winter. Visitors were welcome, but their guns were not.
While people were allowed to have guns at home for self-protection, frontier towns usually barred anyone but law enforcement from carrying guns in public.

When Dodge City residents organized their municipal government, do you know what the very first law they passed was? A gun control law. —also barred the carrying of guns openly.

Like any law regulating things that are small and easy to conceal, the gun control of the Wild West wasn’t always perfectly enforced. But statistics show that, next to drunk and disorderly conduct, the most common cause of arrest was illegally carrying a firearm. Sheriffs and marshals took gun control seriously.
Did the Wild West Have More Gun Control Than We Do Today?

Illinois town bans assault weapons, will fine those who keep them
The town of Deerfield, Ill., has moved to ban assault weapons, including the AR-15 used in the school shooting in Parkland, Florida, claiming the measure will make the town more safe from mass shootings.

The ordinance was passed unanimously Monday by the Deerfield Village Board. It states the move is in the best interest of public health and will spur a culture change toward "the normative value that assault weapons should have no role or purpose in civil society."

It also takes a swing at a popular reading of the Second Amendment, stating the weapons are "not reasonably necessary to protect an individual's right of self-defense" or to preserve a well-regulated militia.
Illinois town bans assault weapons, will fine those who keep them

Chicago suburb bans assault weapons in response to Parkland shooting
With the future of federal gun control legislation uncertain, an affluent Chicago suburb this week took the aggressive step of banning assault weapons within its borders, in what local officials said was a direct response to the mass shooting at a Parkland, Fla., high school earlier this year.

Officials in Deerfield, Ill., unanimously approved the ordinance, which prohibits the possession, manufacture or sale of a range of firearms, as well as large-capacity magazines. Residents of the 19,000-person village have until June 13 to remove the guns from village limits or face up to $1,000 per day in fines.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...h ... db16134355

Seattle will require gun owners to lock up their firearms, after the City Council voted unanimously Monday to pass legislation proposed by Mayor Jenny Durkan. Starting 180 days after Durkan signs the legislation, it will be a civil infraction to store a gun without the firearm being secured in a locked container.
The legislation will apply only to guns kept somewhere, rather than those carried by or under the control of their owners.
Also under the legislation, it will be a civil infraction when an owner knows or should know that a minor, “at-risk person” or unauthorized user is likely to access a gun and such a person actually does access the weapon.

The legislation allows fines up to $500 when a gun isn’t locked up,
up to $1,000 when a prohibited person accesses a firearm
and up to $10,000 when a prohibited person uses the weapon to hurt someone or commit a crime.
Gun owners face fines up to $10,000 for not locking up their guns under new Seattle law

What has changed from then to now??​

You are dodging the point. This is not only about “mass shootings”.

There were 39,707 deaths from firearms in the U.S. in 2019. Sixty percent of deaths from firearms in the U.S. are suicides. In 2019, 23,941 people in the U.S. died by firearm suicide.1 Firearms are the means in approximately half of suicides nationwide.

In 2019, 14,861 people in the U.S. died from firearm homicide, accounting for 37% of total deaths from firearms. Firearms were the means for about 75% of homicides in 2018.
There are approximately 115,000 non-fatal firearm injuries in the U.S. each year.
Facts and Figures

The truth will set you free

We eat deer, only cannibals eat people

Cannibalism is the act of consuming another individual of the same species as food. Human cannibalism is well documented, both in ancient and in recent times.
Cannibalism - Wikipedia

-

Stop with the bla, pba, bla. This is NOT about "mass shootings"
-

And absolutely none of that is reason to tell law abiding citizens they are prohibited from owning a gun.

 

[Colin norris]

A look at the Crime Victimization Survey shows a decrease in gun crime even as gun murder in democrat party controlled cities is going up....of course, the victims of gun murder are majority criminals shot by other criminals.....

But what the media ignores is that the number of violent gun crimes dropped dramatically in 2020. Last October, the US Department of Justice released a study showing victims reported 212,470 gun crimes to police in 2020, a drop of 27% from the 290,790 in 2019. The share of violent crimes committed with guns also fell – by over 30%.

Of course, victims don’t report all crimes to the police. To get a handle on that, the Bureau of Justice Statistics’ National Crime Victimization Survey interviews about 100,000 Americans each year. That survey also finds that the estimated number of gun crimes also fell by 27%, from 481,950 to 350,460 and that the share of violent crimes involving guns was only 7.7%.

In 2020, there was a statistically insignificant few percentage point rise in the share of murder committed with guns, but the share of guns used in robberies and aggravated assaults has dropped dramatically.

All this is consistent with academic research by myself and others showing that when civilians carry guns criminals are less likely to carry them. If a criminal pulls out a gun against an armed victim, he is more likely to be shot.

Gun ownership didn’t fuel the increase in crime over the last couple of years. Rather, people worried about violent crime and decided to arm themselves for self-protection.

It’s not hard to find explanations for the increased violence. Many urban areas saw more than half of prison inmates released because of the pandemic, and the releases still continue. Nationwide, there are over 340,000 fewer inmates in jails and prisons in 2021 than in 2019. In many places, police budgets were cut and officers ordered to stand down. New York City cut its police budget by $1 billion.
----

Prosecutors in many major urban areas have refused to prosecute violent criminals. In October, two rival drug gangs got into a gunfight in Chicago during broad daylight. The fight, caught on video, left one shooter dead and two others wounded. Cook County District Attorney Kim Foxx declined to prosecute any of the gang members, initially explaining they were “mutual combatants.”

One moment, please...

View attachment 588224

I blame Biden for every gun death since 1901.
None if this escalation happened under a repubmican government. It's thise irresponsible democrats with their communist attitude. They allow terror and violence to run wild while all us law abiding citizens cuddle our guns and look on in horror yet do nothing. How strange.

 

[2aguy]

Yes, I don't want to hear how we can lock people up and make worse criminals... we've been doing that shit for 40 years and have dug ourselves deeper into the hole.



I think I was responding to Dick Tiny... who thinks that the reason why people don't report crime is because they are afraid of getting killed, even though that never happens. They don't report crime because they don't trust the police.


Actually, most Americans favor stricter gun control. That number would be higher if they realized how lax our gun laws are.
View attachment 591346

I agree. People need to stand up to the Gun Industry..



Except you've never given an example of someone who was killed as a witness... Come on, if this is the reason then you should be EASILY able to name someone who was murdered for being a witness against the gang-bangers.

People don't speak up because they don't trust a police department that gave John Burge and Jason van Dyke badges...



Again, point out a case where someone was killed for being a witness... and you might have a point.

Moron....

One of the men, charged this week, allegedly killed a witness who was scheduled to testify against another person who is on our list from 2020.

We found the other case while researching information for our recent reporting about murder defendants on electronic monitoring in Chicago. They are the 46th and 47th entries on 2020’s list.

Man is charged with killing a murder case witness while on felony bail (The other accused murderer was on bail at the time of that murder, too.)

Prosecutors this week charged 19-year-old George Reyes with murdering a man who was a key witness in a murder case against his friend, who was also on felony bail at the time of that alleged murder.

cwbchicago.com

 

[woodwork201]

In 2018, 87% of murders in Chicago went unsolved. They totally proved that Jussie Smollet lied about getting beaten up, though. So they can actually do investigations when they want to.



The data is pretty clear. 83% of homicide victims know their killers... it's why the murder rate jumped in 2020 after we all got locked into our houses for a year.

The data doesn't show any such thing. 2570 out of 2870 criminals who murdered black men, or 89.5%, were other black men. If we extrapolate this crime statistic to white murder statistics, then 89.5 per cent of those who murder white people are black men so the FBI stats are wrong. They state that 2584 out of 3499 murderers of white people were other white people but our extrapolation shows that 3131 out of 3499 murderers of white people were actually black people.

Of course that's not true, any more than is your extrapolation. That is the problem with statistical extrapolation: you have to fix a set of known control values across unknown variable values. If everyone agrees on the fixed control points or if the fixed control points can be proven to be fixed across the variable data point then extrapolation works. When the fixed point doesn't apply in the same way to the variable point then extrapolation fails.

​

"Over-extrapolation" refers to extrapolating in a reckless, excessive manner, usually by carrying the extrapolation far beyond the known values. For instance, it's probably fairly safe to conclude that the boy in the previous paragraph will weigh approximately 110 pounds in 2022. However, it would probably be over-extrapolating to claim that he will weigh 200 pounds in 2031 when he is 23 years old, and it would certainly be taking the extrapolation too far to conclude that he will weigh 300 pounds in 2041 at the age of 33.​

Logical Fallacy: Over-Extrapolation

 

[woodwork201]

Gun control is nothing new.

Gun Control Is as Old as the Wild Old West
Dodge City in 1878 (Wikimedia Commons)

Contrary to the popular imagination, bearing arms on the frontier was a heavily regulated business
image: https://thumbs-prod.si-cdn.com/7hLl651L ... 835852.jpg

The “Old West” conjures up all sorts of imagery, but broadly, the term is used to evoke life among the crusty prospectors, threadbare gold panners, madams of brothels, and six-shooter-packing cowboys in small frontier towns – such as Tombstone, Deadwood, Dodge City, or Abilene, to name a few. One other thing these cities had in common: strict gun control laws.

Laws regulating ownership and carry of firearms, apart from the U.S. Constitution's Second Amendment, were passed at a local level rather than by Congress. “Gun control laws were adopted pretty quickly in these places,” says Winkler. “Most were adopted by municipal governments exercising self-control and self-determination.”

The practice was started in Southern states, which were among the first to enact laws against concealed carry of guns and knives, in the early 1800s. -- The Battle Over the Right to Bear Arms in America, points to an 1840 Alabama court that, in upholding its state ban, ruled it was a state's right to regulate where and how a citizen could carry, and that the state constitution's allowance of personal firearms “is not to bear arms upon all occasions and in all places.”

Contrary to the popular imagination, bearing arms on the frontier was a heavily regulated business

Dodge City in 1878 (Wikimedia Commons)
Looking east on Dodge City’s Front Street, 1878.
Dodge City, 1878
The sign warns visitors to check their guns.
Buffalo Hide Yard in Dodge City, Kansas 1878
Dodge City Kansas 1874, courtesy Ford County Historical Society

It's October 26, 1881, in Tombstone, and Arizona
The laws of Tombstone at the time required visitors, upon entering town to disarm, either at a hotel or a lawman's office. (Residents of many famed cattle towns, such as Dodge City, Abilene, and Deadwood, had similar restrictions.)
image: https://public-media.si-cdn.com/fil...d ... lanton.jpg

"Tombstone had much more restrictive laws on carrying guns in public in the 1880s than it has today,” Same goes for most of the New West, to varying degrees, in the once-rowdy frontier towns of Nevada, Kansas, Montana, and South Dakota.

Dodge City, Kansas, formed a municipal government in 1878. According to Stephen Aron, a professor of history at UCLA, the first law passed was one prohibiting the carry of guns in town, likely by civic leaders and influential merchants who wanted people to move there, Cultivating a reputation of peace and stability was necessary, even in boisterous towns, if it were to become anything more transient than a one-industry boom town.

Laws regulating ownership and carry of firearms, apart from the U.S. Constitution's Second Amendment, were passed at a local level rather than by Congress. “Gun control laws were adopted pretty quickly in these places,” says Winkler. “Most were adopted by municipal governments exercising self-control and self-determination.” Carrying any kind of weapon, guns or knives, was not allowed other than outside town borders and inside the home. When visitors left their weapons with a law officer upon entering town, they'd receive a token, like a coat check, which they'd exchange for their guns when leaving town.

“Having a firearm to protect yourself in the lawless wilderness from wild animals, hostile native tribes, and outlaws was a wise idea. But when you came into town, you had to either check your guns if you were a visitor or keep your guns at home if you were a resident.”
Gun Control Is as Old as the Old West

Did the Wild West Have More Gun Control Than We Do Today?
The answer is YES. When you entered a frontier town, you were legally required to leave your guns at the stables on the outskirts of town or drop them off with the sheriff, who would give you a token in exchange. You checked your guns then like you’d check your overcoat today at a Boston restaurant in winter. Visitors were welcome, but their guns were not.
While people were allowed to have guns at home for self-protection, frontier towns usually barred anyone but law enforcement from carrying guns in public.

When Dodge City residents organized their municipal government, do you know what the very first law they passed was? A gun control law. —also barred the carrying of guns openly.

Like any law regulating things that are small and easy to conceal, the gun control of the Wild West wasn’t always perfectly enforced. But statistics show that, next to drunk and disorderly conduct, the most common cause of arrest was illegally carrying a firearm. Sheriffs and marshals took gun control seriously.
Did the Wild West Have More Gun Control Than We Do Today?

Illinois town bans assault weapons, will fine those who keep them
The town of Deerfield, Ill., has moved to ban assault weapons, including the AR-15 used in the school shooting in Parkland, Florida, claiming the measure will make the town more safe from mass shootings.

The ordinance was passed unanimously Monday by the Deerfield Village Board. It states the move is in the best interest of public health and will spur a culture change toward "the normative value that assault weapons should have no role or purpose in civil society."

It also takes a swing at a popular reading of the Second Amendment, stating the weapons are "not reasonably necessary to protect an individual's right of self-defense" or to preserve a well-regulated militia.
Illinois town bans assault weapons, will fine those who keep them

Chicago suburb bans assault weapons in response to Parkland shooting
With the future of federal gun control legislation uncertain, an affluent Chicago suburb this week took the aggressive step of banning assault weapons within its borders, in what local officials said was a direct response to the mass shooting at a Parkland, Fla., high school earlier this year.

Officials in Deerfield, Ill., unanimously approved the ordinance, which prohibits the possession, manufacture or sale of a range of firearms, as well as large-capacity magazines. Residents of the 19,000-person village have until June 13 to remove the guns from village limits or face up to $1,000 per day in fines.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...h ... db16134355

Seattle will require gun owners to lock up their firearms, after the City Council voted unanimously Monday to pass legislation proposed by Mayor Jenny Durkan. Starting 180 days after Durkan signs the legislation, it will be a civil infraction to store a gun without the firearm being secured in a locked container.
The legislation will apply only to guns kept somewhere, rather than those carried by or under the control of their owners.
Also under the legislation, it will be a civil infraction when an owner knows or should know that a minor, “at-risk person” or unauthorized user is likely to access a gun and such a person actually does access the weapon.

The legislation allows fines up to $500 when a gun isn’t locked up,
up to $1,000 when a prohibited person accesses a firearm
and up to $10,000 when a prohibited person uses the weapon to hurt someone or commit a crime.
Gun owners face fines up to $10,000 for not locking up their guns under new Seattle law

What has changed from then to now??​

You are dodging the point. This is not only about “mass shootings”.

There were 39,707 deaths from firearms in the U.S. in 2019. Sixty percent of deaths from firearms in the U.S. are suicides. In 2019, 23,941 people in the U.S. died by firearm suicide.1 Firearms are the means in approximately half of suicides nationwide.

In 2019, 14,861 people in the U.S. died from firearm homicide, accounting for 37% of total deaths from firearms. Firearms were the means for about 75% of homicides in 2018.
There are approximately 115,000 non-fatal firearm injuries in the U.S. each year.
Facts and Figures

The truth will set you free

We eat deer, only cannibals eat people

Cannibalism is the act of consuming another individual of the same species as food. Human cannibalism is well documented, both in ancient and in recent times.
Cannibalism - Wikipedia

-

Stop with the bla, pba, bla. This is NOT about "mass shootings"
-

The Courts also upheld slavery. So what the Courts uphold is not always correct. You might respond about the 13th Amendment ending that but Biden states that no Amendment, no right, is absolute.

Do you agree with Joe Biden that the 13th Amendment is not absolute? Well, of course you do. You support the open border, sex slavery, slavery of brown people, rape of women and children. So at least you're consistent; you call for free exceptions to all of the Amendments.

 

[woodwork201]

Murders go unsolved because witnesses are either fellow criminals and would rather settle the score themselves, or honest people who have zero confidence in the leftist, hug-a-thug DA to ever actually put the murderer in prison and/or even keep the hug in jail until the trial and keep the witnesses safe.

Murders also go unsolved because lack of connection between the killer and the victim. When the two know each other or have a connection, good police work far more easily solves the murder. JoeB131, of course, completely lies about this.

 

[woodwork201]

Actually, a majority STILL supports gun control...

What if the majority supported slavery?

 

[woodwork201]

That's all the gun nuts have, the Constitution, they have no rational debate for the plethora of gun types, sizes etc.. Try to restrict the size, type, reloading of some guns, the fucking retarded copy and paste mouth frothing starts.

The Constitution is not the argument for gun rights. To a degree, the Declaration of Independence is, but even it only points to pre-existing rights; it was just one early document that defined the most fundamental human rights, to the degree that it defined them: the pursuit of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

For instance, the left suggests that the right to life exists in Nicaragua, as well as the right to pursuit of happiness. If a Nicaraguan finds his life threatened, he has the right to come to America. If they are unhappy in Nicaragua - for instance, they all have phones but they can't afford the latest iPhone, then they have the right to pursue happiness and iPhones by coming to America. So, please do not try to deny that the right to life and the right to the pursuit of happiness are not fundamental human rights that apply to everyone in the world.

If their government is oppressive and they need to escape to obtain liberty, then Nicaraguans can come to America - though, for the life of me, I can't fathom what reason you might give for them coming here seeking liberty.

So, since we agree that the right to life exists, then one must have the means to defend that right. If they cannot defend it, it cannot exist.

Since we agree that the right to pursuit of happiness exists, then we must have the right to defend/protect our iPhones. If anyone can simply take our iPhones then how can we be happy? If anyone can take our iPhone then we never really owned the iPhone in the first place.

And it is this fundamental right to defend our lives and our iPhones that led the Founders to put the 2nd Amendment in the Constitution. The right to life and the right to liberty and the right to the pursuit of happiness existed before the Declaration of Independence. The right to keep and bear arms, necessary to defend and safeguard those previously mentioned rights, and other rights not mentioned, existed before the other rights were mentioned in the Declaration of Independence and before the 2nd Amendment appeared in the Bill of Rights.

These fundamental rights are the argument for every type of weapon, size of magazine, fire rate, armor piercing, absolutely deadly form of weapon and ammunition. To defend my life, to exercise my right to life, I have to have the ability to defeat anyone who might try to end my life. To pursue happiness, I need to be able to defend the persons and things which make me happy and to defeat any who might try to take them from me. To defend my liberty, I must have and have access to all of the terrible implements of war that government might try to use against me.

Now, since I have the weapons to defend all of my rights, the government and I find that I can leverage those to serve as a militia and defend the nation from invasion and insurrection. As a patriot, as someone who appreciates when the government helps to protect those fundamental rights of mine, I am anxious to make my skills and weapons available in the form of militia service to defend the nation against insurrection and invasion.

So, no, we don't need the Constitution as our argument for all those variations and styles of weapons and accessories.

 

[watchingfromafar]

Gun murder is up in democrat party cities, but gun crime in general is down....... More guns, less gun crime....
This is all true and there is little the citizens of America can do about it. In America we have the right to bear arms. It is in our bill of rights as citizens of the USA.
And having said that, there is one power our President has. Our President is our commander in chief. He/She is commander over all our military divisions.

The Ar15 was designed and mass-manufactured for our military for the soul purpose of killing fellow human beings.

Ar15s
Since the AR-15 was designed and manufactured under the direction of our Commander and Chef,

the President of the USA, Joe Biden could order the recall of all military firearms as property of our military.

I vote for it
How about you--?

-

 

[watchingfromafar]

And absolutely none of that is reason to tell law-abiding citizens they are prohibited from owning a gun.

This is all true and there is little the citizens of America can do about it. In America, we have the right to bear arms. It is in our bill of rights as citizens of the USA.

And having said that, there is one power our President has that could change this over night. Our President is our commander in chief. He/She is commander over all our military divisions.

The Ar15 was designed and mass-manufactured for our military for the sole purpose of killing fellow human beings.
Ar15s

Since the AR-15 was designed and manufactured under the direction of our Commander and Chef,

the President of the USA, Joe Biden could order the recall of all military firearms as property of our military.
I vote for it

How about you--?

-

 

[watchingfromafar]

sorry, double post
-

 

[2aguy]

Gun murder is up in democrat party cities, but gun crime in general is down....... More guns, less gun crime....
This is all true and there is little the citizens of America can do about it. In America we have the right to bear arms. It is in our bill of rights as citizens of the USA.
And having said that, there is one power our President has. Our President is our commander in chief. He/She is commander over all our military divisions.

The Ar15 was designed and mass-manufactured for our military for the soul purpose of killing fellow human beings.

Ar15s
Since the AR-15 was designed and manufactured under the direction of our Commander and Chef,

the President of the USA, Joe Biden could order the recall of all military firearms as property of our military.

I vote for it
How about you--?

-

Wrong.......

The FOIA request itself was prompted from a Nov. 2017 article in The Atlantic in which the magazine, unsurprisingly to anyone familiar with its anti-gun bent, attempted to bolster a claim that “these rifles were meant for the military, not civilians.”

“Colt sent a pilot model rifle (serial no. GX4968) to the BATF for civilian sale approval on Oct. 23, 1963. It was approved on Dec. 10, 1963, and sales of the ‘Model R6000 Colt AR-15 SP1 Sporter Rifle’ began on Jan 2, 1964,” one critic of the article contended. “The M16 wasn’t issued to infantry units until 1965 (as the XM16E1), wasn’t standardized as the M16A1 until 1967, and didn’t officially replace the M14 until 1969.”

Original ATF AR-15 Classification Refutes Claim that Rifle ‘Not Meant’ for Civilians

 

[Blues Man]

This is all true and there is little the citizens of America can do about it. In America, we have the right to bear arms. It is in our bill of rights as citizens of the USA.

And having said that, there is one power our President has that could change this over night. Our President is our commander in chief. He/She is commander over all our military divisions.

The Ar15 was designed and mass-manufactured for our military for the sole purpose of killing fellow human beings.
Ar15s

Since the AR-15 was designed and manufactured under the direction of our Commander and Chef,

the President of the USA, Joe Biden could order the recall of all military firearms as property of our military.
I vote for it

How about you--?

-

The civilian version of an AR 15 isn't a military rifle it is just another run of the mill semiautomatic rifle just like any other.

This AR 15

and this Ranch Rifle

Fire the same round with the same accuracy

The only difference is cosmetic

 

[watchingfromafar]

The civilian version of an AR 15 isn't a military rifle it is just another run of the mill semiautomatic rifle just like any other.

This AR 15
View attachment 649894

and this Ranch Rifle
View attachment 649895

Fire the same round with the same accuracy

The only difference is cosmetic

Ranch rifle, my asssssss
The commander in chief can order a recall of all military rifles; period
-

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

The civilian version of an AR 15 isn't a military rifle it is just another run of the mill semiautomatic rifle just like any other.

This AR 15
View attachment 649894

and this Ranch Rifle
View attachment 649895

Fire the same round with the same accuracy

The only difference is cosmetic

I have definitely heard that before and it makes sense. I guess, then, the only fix is... well, you already made the case. Thanks.