Greetings from Finland

[Sodafin]

What kind of journalism do you specialize in? I know you don't know everything there is to know about everything there is.

No, I don't think I'd claim that, somehow!

I have done quite a lot of post-conflict work - Middle East and Post-Soviet especially, but basically anywhere that is a bit tasty.

Code -

Yes, I think it's hard to compare what we have with what is on the table in the US. The basis of the system here is that we have one public sector supplier (we do also have private clinics) so the prices are kept down by economies of scale. If you need heart surgery, you go to the one hospital in your city which specialises in heart surgery. You receive excellent care, and the benefit is that only 1 hospital needs that equipment.

I do think this is the best system, but realistically it would be impossible to introduce in the US.

What our system costs as a % of taxes I really don't know. Our taxes are quite high here, but on the other hand, we don't really need medical insurance either, so one has to balance that out.

 

[code1211]

What kind of journalism do you specialize in? I know you don't know everything there is to know about everything there is.

No, I don't think I'd claim that, somehow!

I have done quite a lot of post-conflict work - Middle East and Post-Soviet especially, but basically anywhere that is a bit tasty.

Code -

Yes, I think it's hard to compare what we have with what is on the table in the US. The basis of the system here is that we have one public sector supplier (we do also have private clinics) so the prices are kept down by economies of scale. If you need heart surgery, you go to the one hospital in your city which specialises in heart surgery. You receive excellent care, and the benefit is that only 1 hospital needs that equipment.

I do think this is the best system, but realistically it would be impossible to introduce in the US.

What our system costs as a % of taxes I really don't know. Our taxes are quite high here, but on the other hand, we don't really need medical insurance either, so one has to balance that out.

Buildings that specialize in certain disciplines are not a great leap from where we are right now here in USA. Many private hospitals have their heart care clinics along with cancer clinics, drug re-hab clinics and the larger general care hopitals with the ER's and so on that are allied, but separate.

Neighborhood clinics are plentiful.

When I heard about Helth Care Reform being debated, I assumed that the process would be to reform the health care provider system and make that more efficient. The Finnish model would probably be a good one first to study then to try in maybe one or two states to see how it works with an American spin.

It then became clear that the only change was that the Government would be handling the cash before it got dispersed to the health care providers, it started to look more like another money grab than a health care reform.

Call me suspeiscious, but our politicians are greedy thieves who steal as a proffession and decieve as a hobby. I am assigning no favoritism by political party. Both parties are comprised of snakes who would sell their own mother on the street for a campaign contribution. It's a sad situation. Giving more money to this crowd is like giving heroin to a junkie.

Anyway, thank you for you kind response. I hope your travels are safe and your home comings find you among those you love.

 

[MaggieMae]

Hi everyone,

I'm from Helsinki, Finland. I'm a journalist, so any thoughts you have on the leftist media conspiracy, please take them somewhere else.

On the other hand, I work a lot in conflict zones and the Third World, so hopefully there will be some interesting discussion on some of those places too.

Welcome! I think you'll find the topics selection on this board covers most everything. But your opening salvo is an invitation for lots of comments, I'm afraid, so be prepared.

 

[Samson]

I do think this is the best system, but realistically it would be impossible to introduce in the US.

I agree, and disagree.

Finland has a unique culture, population, etc.......that is VERY different than the USA, and therefore cannot really be compared to the Entire USA.

What many Europeans are not experienced with, and many Americans seem to forget (purposefully?), is that each state in the USA has its own laws, taxes, regulations, etc.

So, comparing Finland, or any other member of the EU, what we should be doing is looking at individual states within the USA that have:

1. Almost no organic population growth
2. Almost no immigration
3. Willing to tax at a maxumum 53% of income.
4. 8% unemployment
5. A Homogeneous population

In Finland Taxation of an individual's income is progressive. In other words, the higher the income, the higher the rate of tax payable. In 2009 the income tax rate (national tax) for an individual is between 7%-30.5%. In addition to direct taxation there is also municipal tax in Finland. This tax is payable by an individual on his or her income and it fluctuates between 16% - 21% depending on the municipal authority. Church tax of 1%- 2.25% is also payable.

Tax Base (EUR) Tax (%)
0 1-13,100 0%
13,101-21,700 7%
21,701-35,300 18%
35,301-64,500 22%
64,501 And Over 30.5

The highest state tax in the USA is about 11% (between CA and NYC, NY). Of course, both of these states supplement their lower-than-Finland taxes with US government money which partially comes from CA and NY taxpayers at a maximum 35%....

So, in the "Worst case" scenario, Finland's highest taxes are 53% vs CA, or NYC taxes of 44%.

Given the extraordinary social and economic variety of CA and NYC, it would be absolutely astonishing they are able to govern their populations with 11% less income than Finland!!!

Well, the fact is, that they cannot.

Without the help of the Federal Government, both CA and NYC would be economically EVEN MORE fucked up. Happily, our Federal policy of simply printing more money prevents the complete financial meltdown of these states, which would no doubt suck the rest ot the country down with them.

 

[MaggieMae]

What our system costs as a % of taxes I really don't know. Our taxes are quite high here, but on the other hand, we don't really need medical insurance either, so one has to balance that out.

So glad you said that. Americans don't seem to mind paying high premiums for their health insurance, but mention the dreaded "T" word and they'll go straight into orbit. A tax covering health care is nothing more than a premium for same, in my opinion.

 

[JenyEliza]

Speaking of cold, let me also thank Finns for their greatest invention ever, the sauna!

We know a Canadian couple here in Florida who built a sauna in their house. Seems kind of pointless to me, kind of like the fireplace in my Floridian house too, considering that it is a sauna outside for eight months of the year here. But that's how much we Canadians love your saunas!

Freaking snowbirds!

I understand now why my parents (who live full time in FL) detest November through March each year. Their roads, stores and shopping are clogged with clueless Canadian snowbirds. They're so stupid they build fucking saunas when they're staying in the biggest sauna in the US--the state of Florida.

That's a fucking Darwin award for you!

By the way--welcome aboard Sodafin. Being as you've announced your uber-leftist tendencies, I rather doubt we'll be good friends. But welcome anyway.

 

[JenyEliza]

Hi everyone,

I'm from Helsinki, Finland. I'm a journalist, so any thoughts you have on the leftist media conspiracy, please take them somewhere else.

On the other hand, I work a lot in conflict zones and the Third World, so hopefully there will be some interesting discussion on some of those places too.

So..da fin is finally here? Velcome tooda board...da message board dat is...Ve have da best any fin could hope for here.

I hope you enjoy your stay as much as I enjoyed the Delta Sly Lounge in Tokyo while typing this.


Now it's time to crank up da band and sing...

...I'll be home for Christmas....if da plane verks all da way tooda gate.


What kind of journalism do you specialize in? I know you don't know everything there is to know about everything there is.

I see you've been treated to Japanese hospitaliity in the Tokyo Delta Sky Lounge.

Make sure you say "Had-jay may mosh-tay" (spelled out phonetically so you'll say it right).
(that is pleased to meet you in Japanese)

and of course, "Domo Arigato" (which anyone who has listened to Styxx will know is "thank you very much"). You can also say just "Domo" and that gets the thanks across as well.

Good manners are *VERY* important in Japanese society. Make sure you use them and don't be a drunk, ugly American!

Hope you're home to your loved ones soon!

Merry Christmas.

Jeny

 

[code1211]

What our system costs as a % of taxes I really don't know. Our taxes are quite high here, but on the other hand, we don't really need medical insurance either, so one has to balance that out.

So glad you said that. Americans don't seem to mind paying high premiums for their health insurance, but mention the dreaded "T" word and they'll go straight into orbit. A tax covering health care is nothing more than a premium for same, in my opinion.

There is a difference that you may be unaware of. The "Public Option" is a device that will act as a catch all for the uninsured. Some of these folks will be uninsurable and some will be simply uninsured.

I spoke to an HR Manager who said that his company would probably just dissolve their insurance, pay the 8% penalty and be done with it. He said that this would a forcastable cost and much easier to budget.

Result? If ALL businesses see this as a cost leveling and therefore advantageous move, the private insurance industry dies. Maybe not a bad thing. There allot of employees out there and in 5 years, their incomes have increased by about 20% on average.

Anyway, this is the path to single payer, not single provider as it should be to actually be reform.

Hot Report

 

[rightwinger]

Welcome

Enjoy your posts so far

 

[Sodafin]

What our system costs as a % of taxes I really don't know. Our taxes are quite high here, but on the other hand, we don't really need medical insurance either, so one has to balance that out.

So glad you said that. Americans don't seem to mind paying high premiums for their health insurance, but mention the dreaded "T" word and they'll go straight into orbit. A tax covering health care is nothing more than a premium for same, in my opinion.

Yes, indeed.

I think most Europeans have been completely nonplussed by the ongoing debate in the US. There seems to be a complete lack of reference to the most basic facts - such as those you mention here.

I'm also puzzled that people whine about "socialised" medicine, yet have no complaints about the same concept existing for the provision of education, roads, sewerage or electricity supply.

 

[Sodafin]

By the way--welcome aboard Sodafin. Being as you've announced your uber-leftist tendencies, I rather doubt we'll be good friends. But welcome anyway.

No, not at all - I suspect you've confused me with someone else.

I am NOT a "leftist".

I have voted for 4 different political parties in the past half dozen elections.

 

[editec]

would make a great avatar.

Welcome

What a stunningly beautiful woman.

Naturally I Goggled up additional images of her.

Pictures not nearly so beautiful as the above.

Finland, eh?

We Americans (or at least our government) must seem somewhat insane compared to yours.

 

[Sodafin]

We Americans (or at least our government) must seem somewhat insane compared to yours.

No, I wouldn't say that - but the debate about healthcare has seemed fairly insane from this distance.

Everytime I hear people complain about Obama being a socialist, I wish they'd take a trip to Belarus and experience what socialism really looks like.

 

[Toro]

By the way--welcome aboard Sodafin. Being as you've announced your uber-leftist tendencies, I rather doubt we'll be good friends. But welcome anyway.

No, not at all - I suspect you've confused me with someone else.

I am NOT a "leftist".

I have voted for 4 different political parties in the past half dozen elections.

Let me introduce you to the nutter fringe of America, Sodafin.

 

[adeel_sami]

Welcome to the board

 

[Sodafin]

By the way--welcome aboard Sodafin. Being as you've announced your uber-leftist tendencies, I rather doubt we'll be good friends. But welcome anyway.

No, not at all - I suspect you've confused me with someone else.

I am NOT a "leftist".

I have voted for 4 different political parties in the past half dozen elections.

Let me introduce you to the nutter fringe of America, Sodafin.

It's true! I've had the same experience on other forums as well.

The assumption seems to be that if you come from "socialist" Finland, then you must be a "lefty".

The same people always seem surprised that Finland has a conservative government, and has actually never had socialist government in its entire history.

 

[Sunni Man]

Is Finland somehow connected to Russia or somewhat subservent to Russian politics and policies?

 

[Sodafin]

Is Finland somehow connected to Russia or somewhat subservent to Russian politics and policies?

No, it isn't.

At least no more so than the US is subservient to Canadian politics and policies.

 

[Sunni Man]

During WWII did the Fin's also fight against the Russians (USSR) ?

 

[Sodafin]

During WWII did the Fin's also fight against the Russians (USSR) ?

Yes, twice.

Finland fought 2 wars against the Soviet Union - the Winter War and Continuation War.

As a result, Finland became the only country which was both asked to pay war reparations, and which did actually pay them!