Green Energy Red In The Face

[irosie91]

Green energy is coming in a big way.

Really s0n?

Is that so?

Heres the thing........there is zero evidence of that. Solar powers just 1% of the country. Wind a smidge less than 4%. duh..........and by 2040, both solar and wind combined ( with hydro btw ) will still be at less than 10%.

Yep...........its coming in a BIG way!!

I have no idea why anyone would be opposed to clean, alternative forms of energy if it is economically viable. (Unless, of course, you work in the oil industry.) Energy is energy. That's why Texas has been leading the way in green energy. The Texas capitalists see what's coming.

Of course alternatives aren't going to replace the installed base any time soon. But the technology is improving, and it is becoming competitive without the subsidies.

"I have no idea why anyone would be opposed to clean, alternative forms of energy...."

Simple.

Not as simple as you are...but simple: as the OP proved, it doesn't work.

good for a modicum of backup?

 

[irosie91]

fuel for the replicator------coal

 

[skookerasbil]

Policlick likes coal, and black lung, and smog polluted skylines, why coal is the greatest gift we've ever had..

Dominating the energy scene for decades to come s0n!!. Energy always comes down to costs.........which don't matter to progressives. But.......they matter to the rest of the world!!!

Cost is exactly why coal is losing to natural gas, you progressives should know that by now..A coal fired electric producing plant uses natural gas because of material costs, even though the capital cost are higher...Natural gas is lighter and cost less to ship...You progressives can have your coal for Christmas presents..

lol......who cares. As long as its not renewables. duh

 

[irosie91]

Policlick likes coal, and black lung, and smog polluted skylines, why coal is the greatest gift we've ever had..

Dominating the energy scene for decades to come s0n!!. Energy always comes down to costs.........which don't matter to progressives. But.......they matter to the rest of the world!!!

Cost is exactly why coal is losing to natural gas, you progressives should know that by now..A coal fired electric producing plant uses natural gas because of material costs, even though the capital cost are higher...Natural gas is lighter and cost less to ship...You progressives can have your coal for Christmas presents..

lol......who cares. As long as its not renewables. duh

nothing is renewable forever-------even THE SUN

 

[Moonglow]

Policlick likes coal, and black lung, and smog polluted skylines, why coal is the greatest gift we've ever had..

Dominating the energy scene for decades to come s0n!!. Energy always comes down to costs.........which don't matter to progressives. But.......they matter to the rest of the world!!!

Cost is exactly why coal is losing to natural gas, you progressives should know that by now..A coal fired electric producing plant uses natural gas because of material costs, even though the capital cost are higher...Natural gas is lighter and cost less to ship...You progressives can have your coal for Christmas presents..

lol......who cares. As long as its not renewables. duh

I can see where hauling coal in a backpack would get old, when all you would need is a solar collector panel for electricity in remote areas..

 

[Moonglow]

Policlick likes coal, and black lung, and smog polluted skylines, why coal is the greatest gift we've ever had..

Dominating the energy scene for decades to come s0n!!. Energy always comes down to costs.........which don't matter to progressives. But.......they matter to the rest of the world!!!

Cost is exactly why coal is losing to natural gas, you progressives should know that by now..A coal fired electric producing plant uses natural gas because of material costs, even though the capital cost are higher...Natural gas is lighter and cost less to ship...You progressives can have your coal for Christmas presents..

lol......who cares. As long as its not renewables. duh

nothing is renewable forever-------even THE SUN

Then why do I get never ending dry skin!?

 

[PoliticalChic]

Typical irrelevant Straw Man argument from the C&P Queen.

Capitalists would embrace technology and innovation.

It is the lifeblood of capitalism.

The Republican Party used to be the party of capitalism.

But now it is the party of grievance and Luddites.

Actually, working together, we've just proven that you are irrelevant.

You've admitted to supporting failed technologies, business strategies, and politicians.


What you have revealed is that the only thing that matters to you is making a buck.


Funny that you're a Canadian...your moral compass is waaay off true North.

 

[irosie91]

Policlick likes coal, and black lung, and smog polluted skylines, why coal is the greatest gift we've ever had..

Dominating the energy scene for decades to come s0n!!. Energy always comes down to costs.........which don't matter to progressives. But.......they matter to the rest of the world!!!

Cost is exactly why coal is losing to natural gas, you progressives should know that by now..A coal fired electric producing plant uses natural gas because of material costs, even though the capital cost are higher...Natural gas is lighter and cost less to ship...You progressives can have your coal for Christmas presents..

lol......who cares. As long as its not renewables. duh

I can see where hauling coal in a backpack would get old, when all you would need is a solar collector panel for electricity in remote areas..

you advocate SOLAR PANEL BACK PACKS?--------something like sandwich sign things?

 

[Billy_Bob]

Policlick likes coal, and black lung, and smog polluted skylines, why coal is the greatest gift we've ever had..

wow your ass is firmly implanted in your bare ass..

 

[skookerasbil]

Policlick likes coal, and black lung, and smog polluted skylines, why coal is the greatest gift we've ever had..

Dominating the energy scene for decades to come s0n!!. Energy always comes down to costs.........which don't matter to progressives. But.......they matter to the rest of the world!!!

Cost is exactly why coal is losing to natural gas, you progressives should know that by now..A coal fired electric producing plant uses natural gas because of material costs, even though the capital cost are higher...Natural gas is lighter and cost less to ship...You progressives can have your coal for Christmas presents..

lol......who cares. As long as its not renewables. duh

I can see where hauling coal in a backpack would get old, when all you would need is a solar collector panel for electricity in remote areas..

the lament of a progressive who is losing.

BTW.....go check out the whitehouse.gov site and see how the EPA is getting its clock cleaned by Scott Pruitt!! It really is hysterical stuff if you are not a progressive k00k.

 

[polarbear]

As usual a bunch of morons who don't even have a clue what a power ON DEMAND grid is are mouthing off pretending to know better than power engineers what it takes in order to have power available at any time it is needed. Neither wind nor solar can perform this function. At best both will always only be a supplement source of energy because they can not be ramped up like all the other power plants which are able to increase what they draw from a (power) source reservoir. The idiots who argue otherwise are unable to wrap their warped little minds around the fact that wind and solar power plants are in principle an engine that has no option to increase the power output like all the other power plants that are needed to supply power on demand.
That's a fact which no amount of political rhetoric can sweep aside whenever this subject is debated.
You can't debate with a generator when the Amps go up and the Voltage + the cycles/sec are dropping.
At any time the only option is to increase the power output of the turbine or engine that turns the generator.
With solar that engine is the sun and with a wind turbine it's the airflow through the area swept by the blades.
Neither one can be increased as needed so in both cases you now need to draw on a reservoir.
The dementocrats offer no solutions to that problem other than claiming that some time in the future battery technology might achieve the breakthrough to back up the power grid and not just a tiny fraction of a residential area in a district where those who unfortunately have to rely on amateur engineering live.
The rest of the world is hooked up to a power on demand grid where the control systems simply open the turbine wicket gates, increase the turbine torque, maintain rpm and Volts as the Amperes increase.
When the demand drops these power plants throttle down to standby and/or idle.
With wind and solar you either spend a giga- budget on a facility that can store the power they produce when it is not needed or you take it off grid and have billions of $$$ worth of wind turbines and solar panels sitting there and do nothing.
If there was any other way then it would have been done in Europe already....but:
France and Germany Turn to Coal
Germany’s plan is to shutter all of its nuclear units by 2022 and to have renewable energy provide 40 to 45 percent of its generation by 2025 and 80 percent by 2050[ii]—up from 30 percent in 2025. Replacing nuclear power with renewable energy has proven difficult, however, mainly due to the intermittency of wind and solar power. When wind and solar are not available to generate electricity, German power buyers turn to coal. In fact, Germany opened over 10 gigawatts of new coal fired power plants over the past 5 years.[iii]

Germany has over 20 gigawatts of lignite-fired electric generating capacity operating as of the beginning of 2015,[iv] generating about 25 percent of its electricity last year.[v] Lignite, also called brown coal, has the highest carbon dioxide emissions per ton when burned–a third more than hard coal and three times as much as natural gas.[vi] It is Europe’s most abundant and least-expensive domestic fuel, especially when located close to power plants. Germany also uses hard coal, which generated about 18 percent of its electricity.[vii]

Germany’s coal-fired generation last year declined by just a half percent and because its electricity demand remained essentially flat, the relatively inexpensive coal-fired power not needed domestically was exported–mostly to Austria, the Netherlands, France and Switzerland.[viii] Germany’s plan to reduce carbon dioxide emissions includes renewables replacing coal as well as its nuclear power, but its coal-fired generating industry refuses to go away.

In France thanks to nuclear it's less fossil fuels for the time being but not for much longer:

Many of France’s nuclear units are down for inspection. As a result, coal and natural gas generation has more than doubled. Last month, generation from fossil fuels was the highest in 32 years in France and nuclear generation was the lowest since 1998. As a result, French month-ahead power prices escalated to near the highest levels since 2009.
Conclusion
Coal is not going away in France and Germany as both countries need it to keep the lights on when nuclear units in France are down for inspection and as Germany’s energy transition brings in intermittent renewable energy to replace its retiring nuclear units. Coal, particularly lignite coal, is indigenous to Germany and supplies the majority of its power despite the dramatic growth in Germany’s wind and solar power industry.

 

[PoliticalChic]

As usual a bunch of morons who don't even have a clue what a power ON DEMAND grid is are mouthing off pretending to know better than power engineers what it takes in order to have power available at any time it is needed. Neither wind nor solar can perform this function. At best both will always only be a supplement source of energy because they can not be ramped up like all the other power plants which are able to increase what they draw from a (power) source reservoir. The idiots who argue otherwise are unable to wrap their warped little minds around the fact that wind and solar power plants are in principle an engine that has no option to increase the power output like all the other power plants that are needed to supply power on demand.
That's a fact which no amount of political rhetoric can sweep aside whenever this subject is debated.
You can't debate with a generator when the Amps go up and the Voltage + the cycles/sec are dropping.
At any time the only option is to increase the power output of the turbine or engine that turns the generator.
With solar that engine is the sun and with a wind turbine it's the airflow through the area swept by the blades.
Neither one can be increased as needed so in both cases you now need to draw on a reservoir.
The dementocrats offer no solutions to that problem other than claiming that some time in the future battery technology might achieve the breakthrough to back up the power grid and not just a tiny fraction of a residential area in a district where those who unfortunately have to rely on amateur engineering live.
The rest of the world is hooked up to a power on demand grid where the control systems simply open the turbine wicket gates, increase the turbine torque, maintain rpm and Volts as the Amperes increase.
When the demand drops these power plants throttle down to standby and/or idle.
With wind and solar you either spend a giga- budget on a facility that can store the power they produce when it is not needed or you take it off grid and have billions of $$$ worth of wind turbines and solar panels sitting there and do nothing.
If there was any other way then it would have been done in Europe already....but:
France and Germany Turn to Coal
Germany’s plan is to shutter all of its nuclear units by 2022 and to have renewable energy provide 40 to 45 percent of its generation by 2025 and 80 percent by 2050[ii]—up from 30 percent in 2025. Replacing nuclear power with renewable energy has proven difficult, however, mainly due to the intermittency of wind and solar power. When wind and solar are not available to generate electricity, German power buyers turn to coal. In fact, Germany opened over 10 gigawatts of new coal fired power plants over the past 5 years.[iii]

Germany has over 20 gigawatts of lignite-fired electric generating capacity operating as of the beginning of 2015,[iv] generating about 25 percent of its electricity last year.[v] Lignite, also called brown coal, has the highest carbon dioxide emissions per ton when burned–a third more than hard coal and three times as much as natural gas.[vi] It is Europe’s most abundant and least-expensive domestic fuel, especially when located close to power plants. Germany also uses hard coal, which generated about 18 percent of its electricity.[vii]

Germany’s coal-fired generation last year declined by just a half percent and because its electricity demand remained essentially flat, the relatively inexpensive coal-fired power not needed domestically was exported–mostly to Austria, the Netherlands, France and Switzerland.[viii] Germany’s plan to reduce carbon dioxide emissions includes renewables replacing coal as well as its nuclear power, but its coal-fired generating industry refuses to go away.

In France thanks to nuclear it's less fossil fuels for the time being but not for much longer:

Many of France’s nuclear units are down for inspection. As a result, coal and natural gas generation has more than doubled. Last month, generation from fossil fuels was the highest in 32 years in France and nuclear generation was the lowest since 1998. As a result, French month-ahead power prices escalated to near the highest levels since 2009.
Conclusion
Coal is not going away in France and Germany as both countries need it to keep the lights on when nuclear units in France are down for inspection and as Germany’s energy transition brings in intermittent renewable energy to replace its retiring nuclear units. Coal, particularly lignite coal, is indigenous to Germany and supplies the majority of its power despite the dramatic growth in Germany’s wind and solar power industry.

An exceptional post, polarbear.

 

[IanC]

As usual a bunch of morons who don't even have a clue what a power ON DEMAND grid is are mouthing off pretending to know better than power engineers what it takes in order to have power available at any time it is needed. Neither wind nor solar can perform this function. At best both will always only be a supplement source of energy because they can not be ramped up like all the other power plants which are able to increase what they draw from a (power) source reservoir. The idiots who argue otherwise are unable to wrap their warped little minds around the fact that wind and solar power plants are in principle an engine that has no option to increase the power output like all the other power plants that are needed to supply power on demand.
That's a fact which no amount of political rhetoric can sweep aside whenever this subject is debated.
You can't debate with a generator when the Amps go up and the Voltage + the cycles/sec are dropping.
At any time the only option is to increase the power output of the turbine or engine that turns the generator.
With solar that engine is the sun and with a wind turbine it's the airflow through the area swept by the blades.
Neither one can be increased as needed so in both cases you now need to draw on a reservoir.
The dementocrats offer no solutions to that problem other than claiming that some time in the future battery technology might achieve the breakthrough to back up the power grid and not just a tiny fraction of a residential area in a district where those who unfortunately have to rely on amateur engineering live.
The rest of the world is hooked up to a power on demand grid where the control systems simply open the turbine wicket gates, increase the turbine torque, maintain rpm and Volts as the Amperes increase.
When the demand drops these power plants throttle down to standby and/or idle.
With wind and solar you either spend a giga- budget on a facility that can store the power they produce when it is not needed or you take it off grid and have billions of $$$ worth of wind turbines and solar panels sitting there and do nothing.
If there was any other way then it would have been done in Europe already....but:
France and Germany Turn to Coal
Germany’s plan is to shutter all of its nuclear units by 2022 and to have renewable energy provide 40 to 45 percent of its generation by 2025 and 80 percent by 2050[ii]—up from 30 percent in 2025. Replacing nuclear power with renewable energy has proven difficult, however, mainly due to the intermittency of wind and solar power. When wind and solar are not available to generate electricity, German power buyers turn to coal. In fact, Germany opened over 10 gigawatts of new coal fired power plants over the past 5 years.[iii]

Germany has over 20 gigawatts of lignite-fired electric generating capacity operating as of the beginning of 2015,[iv] generating about 25 percent of its electricity last year.[v] Lignite, also called brown coal, has the highest carbon dioxide emissions per ton when burned–a third more than hard coal and three times as much as natural gas.[vi] It is Europe’s most abundant and least-expensive domestic fuel, especially when located close to power plants. Germany also uses hard coal, which generated about 18 percent of its electricity.[vii]

Germany’s coal-fired generation last year declined by just a half percent and because its electricity demand remained essentially flat, the relatively inexpensive coal-fired power not needed domestically was exported–mostly to Austria, the Netherlands, France and Switzerland.[viii] Germany’s plan to reduce carbon dioxide emissions includes renewables replacing coal as well as its nuclear power, but its coal-fired generating industry refuses to go away.

In France thanks to nuclear it's less fossil fuels for the time being but not for much longer:

Many of France’s nuclear units are down for inspection. As a result, coal and natural gas generation has more than doubled. Last month, generation from fossil fuels was the highest in 32 years in France and nuclear generation was the lowest since 1998. As a result, French month-ahead power prices escalated to near the highest levels since 2009.
Conclusion
Coal is not going away in France and Germany as both countries need it to keep the lights on when nuclear units in France are down for inspection and as Germany’s energy transition brings in intermittent renewable energy to replace its retiring nuclear units. Coal, particularly lignite coal, is indigenous to Germany and supplies the majority of its power despite the dramatic growth in Germany’s wind and solar power industry.

The same people that thought the 100 mpg carburetor was being hidden by the oil companies are the same ones who think renewables can be fixed to run the power grid. Dolts who don't understand the limitations imposed by the laws of physics.

 

[mamooth]

in the meantime we are helping China build a next generation molten salt nuclear reactor that will produce 90% plus of it's rated capacity 24/7/365 and be emission free.

I've been reading these predictions of magical perfect reactors just around the corner as long as I've been alive.

Yet they never arrive.

They're just like predictions of fusion power

Realists understand that. You build with the technology you have, not promises of future magic.

 

[Skull Pilot]

in the meantime we are helping China build a next generation molten salt nuclear reactor that will produce 90% plus of it's rated capacity 24/7/365 and be emission free.

I've been reading these predictions of magical perfect reactors just around the corner as long as I've been alive.

Yet they never arrive.

They're just like predictions of fusion power

Realists understand that. You build with the technology you have, not promises of future magic.

Sorry but we did have a molten salt reactor up and running in this country at Oakridge in the 1960's but all of our "fearless" leaders in DC saw a shitty movie with Jane Fonda and shut down our nuclear research programs

So not like fusion at all

Realists know the facts and don't think tech doesn't exist because it was never commonplace

FYI China is slated to have a prototype up and running in less than 3 years with help from the USA of course. So tell me how come we don't have our own MSR coming on line?

OH yeah we're a country full of Chickenshit Littles

 

[mamooth]

Sorry but we did have a molten salt reactor up and running in this country but all of our "fearless" leaders in DC saw a shitty movie with Jane Fonda and shut down our nuclear research programs

You mean we had tiny experimental reactor that barely worked for a short time, and which demostrated how impractical the technology was.

Sorry, was that the real world? Go on, keep on believing in your magic. How's the supposed Chinese research going? Still nothing? Imagine that.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Sorry but we did have a molten salt reactor up and running in this country but all of our "fearless" leaders in DC saw a shitty movie with Jane Fonda and shut down our nuclear research programs

You mean we had tiny experimental reactor that barely worked for a short time, and which demostrated how impractical the technology was.

Sorry, was that the real world? Go on, keep on believing in your magic. How's the supposed Chinese research going? Still nothing? Imagine that.

No it was working just fine and tests proved it was self limiting but once again our idiot leaders in DC decided to fund the much more expensive and more dangerous light water reactors we have now

 

[Skull Pilot]

Sorry but we did have a molten salt reactor up and running in this country but all of our "fearless" leaders in DC saw a shitty movie with Jane Fonda and shut down our nuclear research programs

You mean we had tiny experimental reactor that barely worked for a short time, and which demostrated how impractical the technology was.

Sorry, was that the real world? Go on, keep on believing in your magic. How's the supposed Chinese research going? Still nothing? Imagine that.

China's prototype is slated to be up and running in less than 3 years

 

[mamooth]

China's prototype is slated to be up and running in less than 3 years

Which is what they said 3 years ago.

 

[Skull Pilot]

China's prototype is slated to be up and running in less than 3 years

Which is what they said 3 years ago.

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