Green Energy Red In The Face

[Skull Pilot]

Molten Salt Reactors - World Nuclear Association

• Molten salt reactors operated in the 1960s.
• They are seen as a promising technology today principally as a thorium fuel cycle prospect or for using spent LWR fuel.
• A variety of designs is being developed, some as fast neutron types.
• Global research is currently led by China.
• Some have solid fuel similar to HTR fuel, others have fuel dissolved in the molten salt coolant.

God forbid we ever lead global research in something as useful as abundant emission free power huh?

 

[Skull Pilot]

China's Thorium Research Surpasses US Nuclear Technology

 

[Moonglow]

Policlick likes coal, and black lung, and smog polluted skylines, why coal is the greatest gift we've ever had..

wow your ass is firmly implanted in your bare ass..

I'd say that makes no sense but that's normal for you..

 

[Toro]

Not as simple as you are...but simple: as the OP proved, it doesn't work.

Real money is being invested in these technologies. Literally, billions of dollars.

I have no idea why anyone who claims to support capitalism would oppose this.

The only reason I can think of is narrow ideology fueled by highly biased and unscientific news sources.

 

[Toro]

The problem is that it's not economically viable

But it is becoming economically viable.

Green energy not going to replace baseload capacity any time soon, but solar is becoming competitive with little or no subsidies.

People who claim to be conservative generally support capitalist innovation. But because green energy has been supported by The Left, they've taken leave of their senses and are abandoning what they usually support for politics.

Conservatives should be supporting innovation and clean energy rather than clinging to ideological biases.

 

[Toro]

God forbid we ever lead global research in something as useful as abundant emission free power huh?

Maybe we should be encouraging research then rather than disparaging technological innovation as the OP does.

 

[IanC]

This post is not for the warmist crowd.....their minds a either closed or wiped clean.

But....for normal folks, we have yet another tiny misstep....
...and by tiny, I mean immense, and by misstep, I mean rip-roaring blunder.....
...by the Global Warming/Green Energy Cult.


1. "The justification for eliminating coal and mandating 50% wind and solar is heavily rooted in fears of catastrophic manmade climate change. But the alleged crisis has no basis in observed evidence.

2. If alarmists have evidence to the contrary, they must present it for review – including original temperature data, not the revised, homogenized data that American, Australian and other scientists have been presenting to support cataclysm claims and justify demands that we eliminate fossil fuels and switch to renewable energy, regardless of the unprecedented energy and economic risks that would pose.



3. The Wall Street Journal called it the energy shortage “no one saw coming.” Actually, a lot of people did see it coming. But intent on pursuing their “dangerous manmade climate change” and “renewable energy will save the planet” agendas, the political classes ignored them. So the stage was set.

4. As an Australia-wide heat wave sent temperatures soaring above 105 degrees F (40.6 C) in early 2017, air conditioning demand skyrocketed. But Adelaide, South Australia is heavily dependent on wind turbines for electricity generation – and there was no wind.

5. Regulators told the local natural gas-fired power plant to ramp up its output, but it couldn’t get enough gas to do so. ...regulators shut off power to 90,000 homes, leaving angry families sweltering in the dark.


6. ....Aussie politicians and the wind industry, the primary problem was businesses that exported 62% of Australia’s natural gas production in 2016, leaving insufficient supplies to run gas backup power plants that are supposed to step in when wind and solar power fail.




7. ....“didn’t ensure enough gas would remain at home” and couldn’t foresee temperatures soaring with no wind.
We should have had “a national interest test” in place to ensure domestic gas needs, said another.


8. ....fish, meat and produce rotted when freezers and refrigerators shut down. Business operations were interrupted or shut down. Rising electricity prices and unreliable power impacted smelters, factories and other businesses, causing many to lay off workers.


9. The blackouts and energy crisis “offer lessons for America, as it prepares to vastly increase natural gas shipments abroad,”
Insanity and Hypocrisy Down Under


10.

A decade ago the alarmists convinced the Australian public that climate change had put their country into permanent drought. To the point where they started construction of expensive desalination plants to provide drinking water. As usual the drought broke and the plants were mothballed, leaving a huge bill.

But the paradigm remained, everyone still thought there was a water shortage. A few years later a large storm was seen to be coming. Instead of dumping water from dams to control the coming rain, they did nothing, hoarding the water. Huge uncontrolled floods ensued that could easily have been ameliorated.

This warping of thought is popping up everywhere, causing poor decisions to be made. The London highrise fire was caused by cladding that increased insulation but failed safety recommendations. Potential energy savings cost people their lives.

Are these peripheral costs ever factored in? Using corn for ethanol drove up the price of food, hurting the poor around the world. Using windmills and solar panels dramatically increase electricity costs. Who speaks for those who can't afford it?

Could the trillions of dollars spent to lower the temperature by a few hundredths of a degree or hold back sea level rise by a few millimetres by 2050 be better used on more useful endeavors?

The whole thing makes me sick. The greenies are signaling their supposed moral superiority but getting others to pay for it.

 

[Skull Pilot]

The problem is that it's not economically viable

But it is becoming economically viable.

Green energy not going to replace baseload capacity any time soon, but solar is becoming competitive with little or no subsidies.

People who claim to be conservative generally support capitalist innovation. But because green energy has been supported by The Left, they've taken leave of their senses and are abandoning what they usually support for politics.

Conservatives should be supporting innovation and clean energy rather than clinging to ideological biases.

When a wind turbine only produces 25% of its rated capacity it will never be economically viable

How is investing in power generation that only works at 25% of capacity where the units of that power generation only have a 20 year life span economically viable?

 

[Skull Pilot]

God forbid we ever lead global research in something as useful as abundant emission free power huh?

Maybe we should be encouraging research then rather than disparaging technological innovation as the OP does.

Tell that to our morons in DC who still think the China Syndrome was not fiction

 

[PoliticalChic]

Not as simple as you are...but simple: as the OP proved, it doesn't work.

Real money is being invested in these technologies. Literally, billions of dollars.

I have no idea why anyone who claims to support capitalism would oppose this.

The only reason I can think of is narrow ideology fueled by highly biased and unscientific news sources.

They don't work.

Hence....frauds.


You too?

 

[skookerasbil]

The problem is that it's not economically viable

But it is becoming economically viable.

Green energy not going to replace baseload capacity any time soon, but solar is becoming competitive with little or no subsidies.

People who claim to be conservative generally support capitalist innovation. But because green energy has been supported by The Left, they've taken leave of their senses and are abandoning what they usually support for politics.

Conservatives should be supporting innovation and clean energy rather than clinging to ideological biases.

Supporting innovation makes all the sense in the world.......unless its economically stoopid. Every dumbass progressive looks at the advertised price of solar and wind and all do dances in here. But it is the end cost that is advertised...........stoopid jackasses don't pay any mind to massive costs of things like how much transmission lines cost to build and total replacement needed in less than 20 years.( progressives never care about depreciation costs.......but the rest of the world does )

But far stoopider.........the idea of investing in renewables at a cost to taxpayers if tens of billions of dollars presumably to lower CO2 emissions.........while China is building 2-3 new coal plants a month and will be increasing coal production by 50% in 2040!!!. Yep..........that's real rational thinking right there.


The bumper stickers all over America have always been spot on.............LIBERALISM IS A MENTAL DISORDER

 

[polarbear]

Sorry but we did have a molten salt reactor up and running in this country but all of our "fearless" leaders in DC saw a shitty movie with Jane Fonda and shut down our nuclear research programs

You mean we had tiny experimental reactor that barely worked for a short time, and which demostrated how impractical the technology was.

Sorry, was that the real world? Go on, keep on believing in your magic. How's the supposed Chinese research going? Still nothing? Imagine that.

China's prototype is slated to be up and running in less than 3 years

Are you talking about this BS reactor which exists only as a microsoft mspaint on the Bill Gates PR websites?
Bill Gates says China is the best place to pursue next-generation nuclear power

"might build" is a far cry from "up and running"
As if China would get this "up and running". Not in 3 years or even 300 years!

Creator of Infamous Hockey Stick Graph Refuses to Turn Over Data to Court
The whole thing is nothing more than a clever tax evasion scheme that's why in China where it is beyond scrutiny...
This reactor is as bogus as the cold fusion fake news, all of them turned out to be a scam.
Terra power claims to use depleted U238 as a fuel but if you look at their "reactor" which so far is only a Bill Gates Microsoft Windows paintbrush jpeg it turns out that they need U235 to as they say "kickstart" the reaction.If you knew anything about physics then you would also know that U238 is not a fuel because it takes over 1 MeV to split it and there are not enough Neutrons produced by that fission to continue a chain reaction.

 

[mamooth]

God forbid we ever lead global research in something as useful as abundant emission free power huh?

"Electricity from nuclear power will be too cheap to meter!" --- the USA, the 1950s.

We're researching fusion power too. However, the realistic people aren't declaring that we'll all be running on fusion power in the near future, and how all those fusion-naysayers just hate clean energy.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Sorry but we did have a molten salt reactor up and running in this country but all of our "fearless" leaders in DC saw a shitty movie with Jane Fonda and shut down our nuclear research programs

You mean we had tiny experimental reactor that barely worked for a short time, and which demostrated how impractical the technology was.

Sorry, was that the real world? Go on, keep on believing in your magic. How's the supposed Chinese research going? Still nothing? Imagine that.

China's prototype is slated to be up and running in less than 3 years

Are you talking about this BS reactor which exists only as a microsoft mspaint on the Bill Gates PR websites?
Bill Gates says China is the best place to pursue next-generation nuclear power

"might build" is a far cry from "up and running"
As if China would get this "up and running". Not in 3 years or even 300 years!

Creator of Infamous Hockey Stick Graph Refuses to Turn Over Data to Court
The whole thing is nothing more than a clever tax evasion scheme that's why in China where it is beyond scrutiny...
This reactor is as bogus as the cold fusion fake news, all of them turned out to be a scam.
Terra power claims to use depleted U238 as a fuel but if you look at their "reactor" which so far is only a Bill Gates Microsoft Windows paintbrush jpeg it turns out that they need U235 to as they say "kickstart" the reaction.If you knew anything about physics then you would also know that U238 is not a fuel because it takes over 1 MeV to split it and there are not enough Neutrons produced by that fission to continue a chain reaction.

We had a molten salt reactor built and running at Oakridge in the 60's and you think it's impossible to do it again 50 years later with better technology?

The MSR was proven to be self limiting and would never melt down there are 2 types one that is a breeder reactor which recycles its own fuel and one that is a burner type reactor that will use the waste from all of our more expensive, much more dangerous and outdated light water reactors.

The non breeder version of am MSR can be built off site and shipped by rail to its destination. These smaller reactors are plug and play into our existing grid and can provide people with locally produced power and add redundancy to our grid

These reactors can be buried underground which increases security, they don't need copious amounts of water for cooling and only need be refueled every 20 years or so

We have spent money helping China build a prototype so I guess the plan is we let China produce them with our help and we borrow more money from China to buy them even though we could if we had any balls at all be the world leader in this technology that would provide abundant power at zero emission an it would work at 90% of capacity 24/7/365

 

[Skull Pilot]

God forbid we ever lead global research in something as useful as abundant emission free power huh?

"Electricity from nuclear power will be too cheap to meter!" --- the USA, the 1950s.

We're researching fusion power too. However, the realistic people aren't declaring that we'll all be running on fusion power in the near future, and how all those fusion-naysayers just hate clean energy.

It would have been if the government didn't shut own our nuclear research program

and in case you didn't notice fission is not fusion and it already exists in fact France gets almost 80% of its electricity from nuclear power plants

 

[polarbear]

God forbid we ever lead global research in something as useful as abundant emission free power huh?

"Electricity from nuclear power will be too cheap to meter!" --- the USA, the 1950s.

We're researching fusion power too. However, the realistic people aren't declaring that we'll all be running on fusion power in the near future, and how all those fusion-naysayers just hate clean energy.

It would have been if the government didn't shut own our nuclear research program

and in case you didn't notice fission is not fusion and it already exists in fact France gets almost 80% of its electricity from nuclear power plants

You are telling me? I'm the one who just posted that yesterday also there is no need to lecture me about fusion or fission I worked in a nuclear research center (lol ^3 !!!)

 

[Skull Pilot]

God forbid we ever lead global research in something as useful as abundant emission free power huh?

"Electricity from nuclear power will be too cheap to meter!" --- the USA, the 1950s.

We're researching fusion power too. However, the realistic people aren't declaring that we'll all be running on fusion power in the near future, and how all those fusion-naysayers just hate clean energy.

It would have been if the government didn't shut own our nuclear research program

and in case you didn't notice fission is not fusion and it already exists in fact France gets almost 80% of its electricity from nuclear power plants

You are telling me? I'm the one who just posted that yesterday also there is no need to lecture me about fusion or fission I worked in a nuclear research center (lol ^3 !!!)

was I replying to you?

no I wasn't

And if your ability to pay attention to posts on a message board is so bad it's probably a good thing you don't work with nuclear power anymore

 

[mamooth]

We had a molten salt reactor built and running at Oakridge in the 60's and you think it's impossible to do it again 50 years later with better technology?

Nobody said that. I'm saying how that tiny prototype is nothing like the new miracle reactors you're describing. They are totally different animals.

The MSR was proven to be self limiting and would never melt down

No. That's totally wrong. A self-limiting reactor will still melt down from decay heat after shutdown, if the decay heat isn't actively removed by external cooling.

there are 2 types one that is a breeder reactor which recycles its own fuel and one that is a burner type reactor that will use the waste from all of our more expensive, much more dangerous and outdated light water reactors.

And both types are still vaporware.

The non breeder version of am MSR can be built off site and shipped by rail to its destination. These smaller reactors are plug and play into our existing grid and can provide people with locally produced power and add redundancy to our grid

These reactors can be buried underground which increases security,

Because terrorists can't dig when they take over the site of one of these thousands of reactors with minimal security around it. Oh wait, they can. But they don't even have to, because breaking the cooling connection with the outside would will work just as well. Decay heat is a bitch who will not be denied, as Fukushima showed.

they don't need copious amounts of water for cooling

They need copious amounts of something. You're describing something that sits in a hole in the ground and gets really, really hot. That's all it does. Some sort of substance has to transfer the heat away and do something useful with it. That something is almost always water.

and only need be refueled every 20 years or so

Just like any other reactor, if you run it at low power. One ship I was on went 20 years before it refueled the reactors.

We have spent money helping China build a prototype so I guess the plan is we let China produce them with our help and we borrow more money from China to buy them even though we could if we had any balls at all be the world leader in this technology that would provide abundant power at zero emission an it would work at 90% of capacity 24/7/365

No need for any other technology! Just drop it all and wait for the vaporware reactors to save us!

 

[polarbear]

God forbid we ever lead global research in something as useful as abundant emission free power huh?

"Electricity from nuclear power will be too cheap to meter!" --- the USA, the 1950s.

We're researching fusion power too. However, the realistic people aren't declaring that we'll all be running on fusion power in the near future, and how all those fusion-naysayers just hate clean energy.

It would have been if the government didn't shut own our nuclear research program

and in case you didn't notice fission is not fusion and it already exists in fact France gets almost 80% of its electricity from nuclear power plants

You are telling me? I'm the one who just posted that yesterday also there is no need to lecture me about fusion or fission I worked in a nuclear research center (lol ^3 !!!)

was I replying to you?

no I wasn't

And if your ability to pay attention to posts on a message board is so bad it's probably a good thing you don't work with nuclear power anymore

Yes you were:
Green Energy Red In The Face
When I called you out on your "China's prototype is slated to be up and running in less than 3 years" BS in your #78 post. After that every one of your posts were "polarbear said"
China has no intention to call for US $$ and slated a TMSR-LF for 2024 which is only 10 MW + another one in 2035.
Wtf would you know about nuclear reactors anyway?
About as much as Al Gore without a teleprompter or in your case a windbag without a WiFi

 

[Skull Pilot]

We had a molten salt reactor built and running at Oakridge in the 60's and you think it's impossible to do it again 50 years later with better technology?

Nobody said that. I'm saying how that tiny prototype is nothing like the new miracle reactors you're describing. They are totally different animals.

The MSR was proven to be self limiting and would never melt down

No. That's totally wrong. A self-limiting reactor will still melt down from decay heat after shutdown, if the decay heat isn't actively removed by external cooling.

there are 2 types one that is a breeder reactor which recycles its own fuel and one that is a burner type reactor that will use the waste from all of our more expensive, much more dangerous and outdated light water reactors.

And both types are still vaporware.

The non breeder version of am MSR can be built off site and shipped by rail to its destination. These smaller reactors are plug and play into our existing grid and can provide people with locally produced power and add redundancy to our grid

These reactors can be buried underground which increases security,

Because terrorists can't dig when they take over the site of one of these thousands of reactors with minimal security around it. Oh wait, they can. But they don't even have to, because breaking the cooling connection with the outside would will work just as well. Decay heat is a bitch who will not be denied, as Fukushima showed.

they don't need copious amounts of water for cooling

They need copious amounts of something. You're describing something that sits in a hole in the ground and gets really, really hot. That's all it does. Some sort of substance has to transfer the heat away and do something useful with it. That something is almost always water.

and only need be refueled every 20 years or so

Just like any other reactor, if you run it at low power. One ship I was on went 20 years before it refueled the reactors.

We have spent money helping China build a prototype so I guess the plan is we let China produce them with our help and we borrow more money from China to buy them even though we could if we had any balls at all be the world leader in this technology that would provide abundant power at zero emission an it would work at 90% of capacity 24/7/365

No need for any other technology! Just drop it all and wait for the vaporware reactors to save us!

Reactors that have already existed are not vaporware

but you just go on and keep thinking that wind will be able to provide the power we need