God vs Athiesm: Which Is More Rationale?

Weatherman2020

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Is it rational to believe in God?

Many people think that faith and reason are opposites; that belief in God and tough-minded logical reasoning are like oil and water. They are wrong. Belief in God is far more rational than atheism.

Logic can show that there is a God. If you look at the universe with common sense and an open mind, you’ll find that it’s full of God’s fingerprints.

A good place to start is with an argument by Thomas Aquinas, the great 13th century philosopher and theologian.

The argument starts with the not very startling observation that things move. But nothing moves for no reason. Something must cause that movement. And whatever caused that, must be caused by something else, and so on. But this causal chain cannot go backwards forever. It must have a beginning. There must be an Unmoved Mover to begin all the motion in the universe: a first domino to start the whole chain moving, since mere matter never moves itself.

A modern objection to this argument is that some movements things in quantum mechanics -- radioactive decay, for example -- have no discernible cause, but hang on a second. Just because scientists don’t see a cause, doesn’t mean there isn’t one. It just means science hasn’t found it yet. Maybe some day they will. But then there will have to be a new cause to explain that one. And so on and so on. But science will never find the first cause. That’s no knock on science. It simply means that a first cause lies outside the realm of science.

Another way to explain this argument is that everything that begins must have a cause. Nothing can come from nothing. So if there is no first cause, there can’t be second causes. Or anything at all. In other words, if there’s no creator, there can’t be a universe.

But, what if the universe were infinitely old, you might ask? Well, all scientists today agree that the universe is not infinitely old, that it had a beginning in the Big Bang.

If the universe had a beginning, then it didn’t have to exist. And things which don’t have to exist, must have a cause.

There’s confirmation of this argument from Big Bang Cosmology. We now know that all matter, that is, the whole universe, came into existence some 13.7 billion years ago and it’s been expanding and cooling ever since. No scientist doubts that anymore, even though before it was scientifically proved, atheists called it “creationism in disguise.”

Now add to this premise, a very logical second premise -- the principal of causality that nothing begins without an adequate cause. And you get the conclusion that since there was a Big Bang, there must be a Big Banger.

But is this Big Banger God?

Why couldn’t it be just another universe? Because Einstein’s General Theory of Relativity says that all time is relative to matter and since all matter began 13.7 billion years ago, so did all time. So there’s no time before the Big Bang.

And even if there is time before the Big Bang, even if there is a multi-verse, that is, many universes with many Big Bangs, as String Theory says is mathematically possible, that too must have a beginning. An absolute beginning is what most people mean by God.

Yet, some atheists find the existence of an infinite number of other universes more rational than the existence of a Creator. Never mind that there is no empirical evidence at all that any of these unknown universes exists, let alone a thousand or a gazillion.

The conclusion that God exists doesn’t require faith. Atheism requires faith. It takes faith to believe in everything coming from nothing. It takes only reason to believe in everything coming from God.

 
Cant prove one either way. So is saying one is rational, actual irrational?
Kinda why I consider myself agnostic. I don't doubt a supreme being, I just doubt man made religion.
 
Mathematics defies evolution. Common sense defies evolution. To even consider the possibility that some kind of female thing crawled out of slime pit somewhere in the world at the very exact time some kind of male thing crawled out of that same slime pit and they got together defies simple logic. I mean, what are the odds against the female coming from a slime pit in Africa 10,000 years before a male crawled out of a slime pit in China? It is absolutely absurd.
 
Cant prove one either way. So is saying one is rational, actual irrational?
Kinda why I consider myself agnostic. I don't doubt a supreme being, I just doubt man made religion.
I was agnostic for my first 35 years. Then I figured I better do my homework and answer the ultimate issue. Good luck.
 
Cant prove one either way. So is saying one is rational, actual irrational?
Kinda why I consider myself agnostic. I don't doubt a supreme being, I just doubt man made religion.
I was agnostic for my first 35 years. Then I figured I better do my homework and answer the ultimate issue. Good luck.
I did that long ago. That's why im agnostic lol
 
Cant prove one either way. So is saying one is rational, actual irrational?
Kinda why I consider myself agnostic. I don't doubt a supreme being, I just doubt man made religion.
I was agnostic for my first 35 years. Then I figured I better do my homework and answer the ultimate issue. Good luck.
I did that long ago. That's why im agnostic lol
So what is your stumbling point?
It isn't stumbling. I used to be a Christian until I was 12. Then I wanted answers. That led me to be an agnostic.
I just find it hard to believe if there is something in this universe powerful and smart enough to create everything, I don't think he would be a totalitarian conformist mass murderer that hates free will. Doesn't make sense to me.
 
I just find it hard to believe if there is something in this universe powerful and smart enough to create everything, I don't think he would be a totalitarian conformist mass murderer that hates free will. Doesn't make sense to me.

That's just it. God isn't a totalitarian conformist mass murderer that hates free will. The "totalitarian conformist mass murderer that hates free will" is the imagined being that does not exist. God does.
 
Cant prove one either way. So is saying one is rational, actual irrational?
Kinda why I consider myself agnostic. I don't doubt a supreme being, I just doubt man made religion.
I was agnostic for my first 35 years. Then I figured I better do my homework and answer the ultimate issue. Good luck.
I did that long ago. That's why im agnostic lol
So what is your stumbling point?
It isn't stumbling. I used to be a Christian until I was 12. Then I wanted answers. That led me to be an agnostic.
I just find it hard to believe if there is something in this universe powerful and smart enough to create everything, I don't think he would be a totalitarian conformist mass murderer that hates free will. Doesn't make sense to me.
Interesting take.
Personally I support mass murder of people like ISIS, which is what occurred. And you and I each have our views because we can.
So for what purpose do you think a creator created you?
 
Cant prove one either way. So is saying one is rational, actual irrational?
Kinda why I consider myself agnostic. I don't doubt a supreme being, I just doubt man made religion.
I was agnostic for my first 35 years. Then I figured I better do my homework and answer the ultimate issue. Good luck.
I did that long ago. That's why im agnostic lol
So what is your stumbling point?
It isn't stumbling. I used to be a Christian until I was 12. Then I wanted answers. That led me to be an agnostic.
I just find it hard to believe if there is something in this universe powerful and smart enough to create everything, I don't think he would be a totalitarian conformist mass murderer that hates free will. Doesn't make sense to me.

It appears your problem was that you were attending one of those Hell fire and Brimstone Burn'em all fundamentalists churches. You should have waited until you were mature enough to read the Bible for yourself before you made your decision.
 
Cant prove one either way. So is saying one is rational, actual irrational?
Kinda why I consider myself agnostic. I don't doubt a supreme being, I just doubt man made religion.
I was agnostic for my first 35 years. Then I figured I better do my homework and answer the ultimate issue. Good luck.
I did that long ago. That's why im agnostic lol
So what is your stumbling point?
It isn't stumbling. I used to be a Christian until I was 12. Then I wanted answers. That led me to be an agnostic.
I just find it hard to believe if there is something in this universe powerful and smart enough to create everything, I don't think he would be a totalitarian conformist mass murderer that hates free will. Doesn't make sense to me.

It appears your problem was that you were attending one of those Hell fire and Brimstone Burn'em all fundamentalists churches. You should have waited until you were mature enough to read the Bible for yourself before you made your decision.
Oh gawd no. It was a nice, small, community church
 
Mathematics defies evolution. Common sense defies evolution. To even consider the possibility that some kind of female thing crawled out of slime pit somewhere in the world at the very exact time some kind of male thing crawled out of that same slime pit and they got together defies simple logic. I mean, what are the odds against the female coming from a slime pit in Africa 10,000 years before a male crawled out of a slime pit in China? It is absolutely absurd.
Classic straw man. You don't understand evolution so you posit an absurd test for evolution.
 
Is it rational to believe in God?
No. Your examples are all "God of the Gap" types. We don't know the answer so we'll invent one. We don't know what was the state of the universe before the big bang so we'll invent a "banger".
The universe was the size of a quarter is the leading theory, so we know the universe was different. And to initiate the change into what we have now requires an initiator.
 
Cant prove one either way. So is saying one is rational, actual irrational?
Kinda why I consider myself agnostic. I don't doubt a supreme being, I just doubt man made religion.
I was agnostic for my first 35 years. Then I figured I better do my homework and answer the ultimate issue. Good luck.
I did that long ago. That's why im agnostic lol
So what is your stumbling point?
It isn't stumbling. I used to be a Christian until I was 12. Then I wanted answers. That led me to be an agnostic.
I just find it hard to believe if there is something in this universe powerful and smart enough to create everything, I don't think he would be a totalitarian conformist mass murderer that hates free will. Doesn't make sense to me.
Interesting take.
Personally I support mass murder of people like ISIS, which is what occurred. And you and I each have our views because we can.
So for what purpose do you think a creator created you?
Almost every person on earth was like ISIS? Doubtful
No telling. Could be nothing more than curiosity. He probably isn't narcissistic enough to let us know...
 
I was agnostic for my first 35 years. Then I figured I better do my homework and answer the ultimate issue. Good luck.
I did that long ago. That's why im agnostic lol
So what is your stumbling point?
It isn't stumbling. I used to be a Christian until I was 12. Then I wanted answers. That led me to be an agnostic.
I just find it hard to believe if there is something in this universe powerful and smart enough to create everything, I don't think he would be a totalitarian conformist mass murderer that hates free will. Doesn't make sense to me.

It appears your problem was that you were attending one of those Hell fire and Brimstone Burn'em all fundamentalists churches. You should have waited until you were mature enough to read the Bible for yourself before you made your decision.
Oh gawd no. It was a nice, small, community church

Then they were NOT teaching the Bible. I'll bet you they were a fundamentalist church.
 
Mathematics defies evolution. Common sense defies evolution. To even consider the possibility that some kind of female thing crawled out of slime pit somewhere in the world at the very exact time some kind of male thing crawled out of that same slime pit and they got together defies simple logic. I mean, what are the odds against the female coming from a slime pit in Africa 10,000 years before a male crawled out of a slime pit in China? It is absolutely absurd.
Classic straw man. You don't understand evolution so you posit an absurd test for evolution.

I see you didn't dispute what I said. If evolution can't pass the mathematical tests, then it fails.
 
Belief in God is far more rational than atheism.

I was agnostic for my first 35 years. Then I figured I better do my homework and answer the ultimate issue. Good luck.
Neither theism or atheism is fully rational. Even trying to define "God" is irrational.
Why not be HONEST?
We don't know.
Using a God-of-the-gaps rationale to support one's beliefs is a reflection of stupid ignorance.

Smart ignorance + honesty = agnosticism. The scientific view.

You must be getting fearful in your old age!
:)
 
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Mathematics defies evolution. Common sense defies evolution. To even consider the possibility that some kind of female thing crawled out of slime pit somewhere in the world at the very exact time some kind of male thing crawled out of that same slime pit and they got together defies simple logic. I mean, what are the odds against the female coming from a slime pit in Africa 10,000 years before a male crawled out of a slime pit in China? It is absolutely absurd.
Classic straw man. You don't understand evolution so you posit an absurd test for evolution.
How well do you understand evolution?
Explain the existence of music.
Sight and hearing require three basic mechanisms to function. An exterior sensor, wiring to take that sensor signal to the brain, and the ability of the brain to decode the signal into something meaningful. Explain how all three evolved simultaneously, because if one is missing the other two are meaningless and have no purpose.
 
Is it rational to believe in God?
No. Your examples are all "God of the Gap" types. We don't know the answer so we'll invent one. We don't know what was the state of the universe before the big bang so we'll invent a "banger".

That's what evolution does. The odds of even a single cell mutating into a four cell is mathematical impossible. As are many other of evolutionists wild impossible claims.
 

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