GM is doing AWESOME

[Katzndogz]

it boggles my mind how hypocritical the left is, they want to u to use the small farms and the little businesses but blow gaskets because the little guy had a chance to go big with the fall of GM? What, so because Obama blew it, yet again, now the left is for big business? Which why does it go people.

In a capitalistic environment the big dog doesnt last long, so when they fall (GM) thats when little companies get to make their moves and swallow up pieces and people and product and help with innovation, research and anything else. This would have been a banner day for small businesses. Nope, the hypocritical left jumped in *something Obama knew nothing about* and more taxpayer money down the big ol black hole. Thanx again OBama.

When was the last time a little guy auto maker succeeded? Ask DeLorean. If GM and Chrysler folded, they would have been lost forever

Dodge.

 

[Papageorgio]

Jumping into sub prime loans isn't a way to make this work, after our last lesson, I would think everyone would be outraged.

Unfortunately no, not when politics enter into it. Obama's standard apologists will defend everything, including the fucking over of GM bondholders, no matter what, forever, period. And of course, if situations were reversed, Republicans would do precisely the same thing.....

.

I know, neither party looks at long term, just expediency. That is why we are in the spending problems we are into.

 

[grunt11b]

We'll never see the money back from the Great Mistake.

It was never about helping GM or the stockholders, it was and always has been about a huge power grab of the private sector by Marxists/communists in government.

 

[Listening]

No way to prove that statement.

The demand for cars just does not go away because some bloated overunionized company can't compete.

And one that should have filed for bankruptcy.

and should have been out of the game, did it happen, no. Ford is like the A student in this ordeal, the A student does well, preps, sacrifices, and what happens, reconginiztion goes more to the stupid kids who get second or third tries and everything else the teacher can toss their way. Pissed me off to see that in school and pisses me off Obama did that to Ford. Way to work hard americans, heres some government hand outs.

As a result, Ford gets averaged with GM.

Ford would have profited handsomly at the demise of GM. Something the good actors in a free market economy can do. They were denied that opportunity.

 

[kiwiman127]

It wasn’t a government takeover; it was a bankruptcy reorganization. The General Motors (GM) Chapter 11 case was filed at the height of the economic recession; and there were no banks or other commercial lenders that could provide the DIP (Debtor in Possession) financing necessary to continue business operations during the reorganization proceedings; and without the government assistance (and that of Canada as well) GM would have been DOA (dead on arrival) on the first day, forcing the liquidation of the company, and loss of thousands of jobs as happened in the Circuit City bankruptcy that cost over 35,000 jobs. The liquidation of GM would in turn precipitate the failure of hundreds of related industry manufacturers and suppliers resulting in a flood of business bankruptcy cases across the country, and loss of millions of jobs. And, as it turned out, the reorganization was a success; witness the profitability of the company today.

If it was such a success, why do they need the subprime loans?

Well maybe GM went into the sub prime business because of the over all economy to win a bigger share of the current meager consumer spending environment?

"The second-quarter slowdown was not entirely surprising given consumer spending has been weak recently, the government has been cutting its spending and hiring has been tepid. Economists surveyed by CNNMoney were expecting to see 1.4% growth"
GDP Report: U.S. economy slowed in second quarter - Jul. 27, 2012

 

[The T]

We'll never see the money back from the Great Mistake.

It was never about helping GM or the stockholders, it was and always has been about a huge power grab of the private sector by Marxists/communists in government.

And handing it over to the Unions while the Taxpayers/Bondholders get screwed.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

The secured loan has been paid; and what remains is the stock redemption. You should also know that billions of dollars in government insured loans to business are wiped out in bankruptcy every year. Government funding is nothing new; the Bush administration provided 17.3 billion in emergency loans to GM and Chrysler to assist in restructuring efforts, which were unsuccessful. In the GM case, the government was granted a priority lien for administrative expense (which security the government would not have but for the bankruptcy filing); and a major equity share in the reorganized debtor. The bankruptcy laws function to balance the interests of debtors, creditors, equity holders, unions, governmental units and other parties in interest. That’s how bankruptcy works; and it works well.

And it didn't work for GM because Obama decided to fuck over creditors in favor of the worthless UAW

 

[WillowTree]

We'll never see the money back from the Great Mistake.

It was never about helping GM or the stockholders, it was and always has been about a huge power grab of the private sector by Marxists/communists in government.

it was about paying off the unions. he owed em.

 

[WillowTree]

It wasn’t a government takeover; it was a bankruptcy reorganization. The General Motors (GM) Chapter 11 case was filed at the height of the economic recession; and there were no banks or other commercial lenders that could provide the DIP (Debtor in Possession) financing necessary to continue business operations during the reorganization proceedings; and without the government assistance (and that of Canada as well) GM would have been DOA (dead on arrival) on the first day, forcing the liquidation of the company, and loss of thousands of jobs as happened in the Circuit City bankruptcy that cost over 35,000 jobs. The liquidation of GM would in turn precipitate the failure of hundreds of related industry manufacturers and suppliers resulting in a flood of business bankruptcy cases across the country, and loss of millions of jobs. And, as it turned out, the reorganization was a success; witness the profitability of the company today.

If it was such a success, why do they need the subprime loans?

Well maybe GM went into the sub prime business because of the over all economy to win a bigger share of the current meager consumer spending environment?

"The second-quarter slowdown was not entirely surprising given consumer spending has been weak recently, the government has been cutting its spending and hiring has been tepid. Economists surveyed by CNNMoney were expecting to see 1.4% growth"
GDP Report: U.S. economy slowed in second quarter - Jul. 27, 2012

GM could give their product away and I still wouldn't have one.

 

[Paulie]

GM is alive. Bin Laden is dead.

Our 'Conservatives' are unhappy with both outcomes.

Yeah it's alive alright. With 300 million of us' blood, sweat, and tears coursing through its veins.

 

[Mac1958]

it was about paying off the unions. he owed em.

I think that's a very big part of it. There weren't many options, GM had run into the ground. Standard bankruptcy didn't appear to be an option at the time, there were no ways to disperse assets for reorganization. Money had dried up completely, everywhere.

It's the breathtakingly blatant payoff to the unions while GM bondholders were laying there that pissed me off.

.

 

[Dick Tuck]

GM Ramps Up Risky Subprime Auto Loans To Drive Sales; Taxpayers Still Own 26.5% - Investors.com


SUBPRIME loans......didnt we already go through this

Not sure, since the standard for credit has become almost impossible for many otherwise credit worthy folks. In any case, I think it's a good call for GM, since their sales have gone through the roof, and their new product line kicked Ford's ass. A couple of years back, I broke down on a trip, and picked up a cheap rental, while my car was being repaired. The Ford Focus is about the suckiest car I've ever driven.

I still am a bit pissed off at GM though, for dropping their Saturn line. Really well built cars.

 

[Full-Auto]

GM Ramps Up Risky Subprime Auto Loans To Drive Sales; Taxpayers Still Own 26.5% - Investors.com


SUBPRIME loans......didnt we already go through this

Advertised on the radio every day.


3.9% financing with a 400+ credit score. With a payment you will not believe.


It is a shift from the pre holidays half price sale.......

 

[Listening]

GM Ramps Up Risky Subprime Auto Loans To Drive Sales; Taxpayers Still Own 26.5% - Investors.com


SUBPRIME loans......didnt we already go through this

Not sure, since the standard for credit has become almost impossible for many otherwise credit worthy folks. In any case, I think it's a good call for GM, since their sales have gone through the roof, and their new product line kicked Ford's ass. A couple of years back, I broke down on a trip, and picked up a cheap rental, while my car was being repaired. The Ford Focus is about the suckiest car I've ever driven.

I still am a bit pissed off at GM though, for dropping their Saturn line. Really well built cars.

How about a link on GM's kicking Ford's ass. I don't know much about how they do head to head, but I do know that Ford has some pretty good products out there.

My driveway has not seen a GM, Ford Or Chrysler car for over ten years (and that is about seven cars total).

 

[Navy1960]

If General Motors (NYSE:GM) stays true to form in focusing on China as a major growth opportunity, it could soon be building a new auto plant there. The world’s leading carmaker for 2011 — just ahead of Germany’s Volkswagen (PINK:VLKAY) – has received approval from the Hubei Environmental Protection Bureau to build a plant in the central China city of Wuhan.

The $1.1 billion factory would have an eventual annual capacity of 300,000 vehicles, the notice said. That would add nicely to GM’s current Chinese capacity of about 2 million light vehicles a year. “GM has been running with tight capacity and the expansion will make the company even more competitive,” Cao He, an analyst with China Minzu Securities Co. in Beijing, told Bloomberg. “To have a foothold in central China will also bring GM closer to its clients there and lower logistic costs.”
GM Gets OK for a New Plant in China | InvestorPlace

I just have one observation on GM, while on a personal level am glad to see an American company prosper and do well for a change. As for the bailout of GM had it held GM to a standard which was " Made in the USA" focused then American taxpayers monies would have been well spent. I fail to see however that when GM expands into China with investments as large as was seen in the article and at the same time shed jobs here in this nation how the American taxpayers benefit , other than the fact that we might get a cheaper car every so often . Which leads me to think that eventually when all of these Americans have lost their jobs as a result of stuff like this who is going to be around to buy these so called cheap cars ? I happen to own a new Buick and am pleased with it, and am glad too see GM doing well , but it's my humble opinion that when the American taxpayers bail you out, then you should be held to a standard that is higher and American based and this applies to EVERY business we the taxpayer have bailed out recently.

 

[rightwinger]

And one that should have filed for bankruptcy.

and should have been out of the game, did it happen, no. Ford is like the A student in this ordeal, the A student does well, preps, sacrifices, and what happens, reconginiztion goes more to the stupid kids who get second or third tries and everything else the teacher can toss their way. Pissed me off to see that in school and pisses me off Obama did that to Ford. Way to work hard americans, heres some government hand outs.

As a result, Ford gets averaged with GM.

Ford would have profited handsomly at the demise of GM. Something the good actors in a free market economy can do. They were denied that opportunity.

Ford supported the bailouts of GM and Chrysler

 

[Listening]

and should have been out of the game, did it happen, no. Ford is like the A student in this ordeal, the A student does well, preps, sacrifices, and what happens, reconginiztion goes more to the stupid kids who get second or third tries and everything else the teacher can toss their way. Pissed me off to see that in school and pisses me off Obama did that to Ford. Way to work hard americans, heres some government hand outs.

As a result, Ford gets averaged with GM.

Ford would have profited handsomly at the demise of GM. Something the good actors in a free market economy can do. They were denied that opportunity.

Ford supported the bailouts of GM and Chrysler

What cracks me us is that you somehow think this is relevant to the argument.

Would you please explain why this proves anything ?

Are you saying Ford would not have benefited from a GM failure ?

 

[The T]

As a result, Ford gets averaged with GM.

Ford would have profited handsomly at the demise of GM. Something the good actors in a free market economy can do. They were denied that opportunity.

Ford supported the bailouts of GM and Chrysler

What cracks me us is that you somehow think this is relevant to the argument.

Would you please explain why this proves anything ?

Are you saying Ford would not have benefited from a GM failure ?

The CEO did testify before Congress...but funny that they never took the bailout.

 

[Listening]

Ford supported the bailouts of GM and Chrysler

What cracks me us is that you somehow think this is relevant to the argument.

Would you please explain why this proves anything ?

Are you saying Ford would not have benefited from a GM failure ?

The CEO did testify before Congress...but funny that they never took the bailout.

I've seen corporate politics like this before.

Nobody can convince me that some at Ford were not licking thier chops at the idea of a GM failure.

But, Ford can't be seen as someone who is hoping for the fall of a competitor (too bloodthirsty).

A second scenario.....

Ford does not want GM to fail (truthfully) because if GM fails, it might go to a company like....ready....wait for it.....BAIN !!!

Who will streamline it and then kick Fords ass.

 

[candycorn]

Banking and business are not the same. The government has no choice but to bail out the banks because they are part of the Federal Reserve System. The Federal Reserve is an independent centralized bank system established under the Federal Reserve Act with quasi-legislative, quasi-judicial powers that has jurisdiction over banking institutions. Under the Glass-Steagal Act, Congress created the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation as an independent agency to insure deposit accounts and enforce regulation of banks under the Federal Reserve System. Unlike their parent companies (e.g., Washington Mutual, Inc. vs. Washington Mutual Bank), banks are ineligible for bankruptcy reorganization. 11 U.S.C. § 109(b)(2). An insolvent bank is taken over by the FDIC; which is why there needs to be a clear dividing line between bank investment that is insured, and market trading that is not. This is why Dodd-Frank does not allow proprietary trading by bank entities under the Volcker Rule.

I understand that but the reason we were given is that IF GM and Chrysler were to go under it would have a ripple effect throughout the economy. Here is President Obama making that case:

Business: President Discusses G.M. Bankruptcy - nytimes.com - YouTube

The "money shot" is at the 1:20-1:30 bit. I used this clip because it was from a reputable source.

Here we are in 2012 and if GM and/or Chrysler were to look like they were at death's door once more (that rhymes); we'd have the same situation; they are too big to fail and their death would send shockwaves through the economy.

I supported the bail out of the Auto Industry.

I'll repeat; I supported the bailout of the Auto Industry.

Unlike every single conservative on this board, I can make the very small jump in logic and understand that the paltry amount of UAW jobs that the bailout did save pales in number to the number of non-union jobs that were preserved. It is particularly humorous for these idiots to feel that this was some sort of gift for the UAW alone since most of the jobs saved were not union jobs.

That being said, you tell me, what has changed?

Would we not, again, have to go to bat for GM if they faced another financial disaster? Clearly the answer is yes.

If the Obama Administration had broke GM into, lets say, 3 different companies pairing off their products or perhaps 6 different brands or something along those lines, any one of those companies would be allowed to go through the bankruptcy procedures without sending out such massive shockwaves through out the economy as a whole.