Free Speech vs an Angry Islamic World

[Ravi]

BENGHAZI, Libya — Around 30,000 Libyans marched through the eastern city of Benghazi on Friday in an unprecedented protest to demand the disbanding of powerful militias in the wake of last week’s attack that killed the U.S. ambassador and three other Americans.

The attack on the U.S. Consulate in Benghazi, in which at least one militia is suspected of participating, has sparked a backlash among many Libyans against the multiple armed factions that have run rampant for months in cities around the country. The militias have become more powerful than the regular security forces, and successive governments since last year’s fall of Moammar Gadhafi have been unable to rein them in.

Libyans hold giant march demanding militias disband in wake of attack on US consulate - The Washington Post

do some soul searching.

While it is encouraging and does illustrate that all Muslims do not support the Islamic terrorists, the article you linked is not encouraging that militant Islam will be reined in:

The march was the biggest seen in Benghazi, Libya’s second largest city and home to 1 million people, since the fall of Gadhafi in August 2011. The unprecedented public backlash comes in part in frustration with the interim government, which has been unable to rein in the armed factions. Many say that officials’ attempts to co-opt fighters by paying them have only fueled the growth of militias without bringing them under state control or integrating them into the regular forces

It seems that peaceful Muslims, like the United States, have attempted to deal with the situation with apologies, appeasement, and bribery. It isn't working. Will peaceful Islam take up arms against the militants? I don't know. Obviously in Syria, the militants are willingto to slaughter tens of thousands of their own people, but that is militants fighting those who want freedom. Will it work the other way around? So far, we haven't seen any evidence of that.

The US hasn't attempted to deal with the situation with apologies, appeasement, or bribery.

No offense, but EDIT

 

[Ravi]

Any time there is war or conflict in the Middle East.

Just scratch the surface a little and you will find Israel/mossad behind the scenes causing the problem.

EDIT No offense.

 

[9thIDdoc]

"But the average Jordanian knows the game and resents being subjugated by U.S. and Israeli interests in their own country."

Then you should be able understand the average American being unwilling to be subjugated by Islam in our own country. We tend to find theocracies and dictatorships equally distasteful.

 

[Foxfyre]

The U.S. subsidy to Jordan for 2013 is set at I believe $663.7 million. So I can't really say that this has nothing to do with Jordan's behavior. But what does it say about the Jordanians or Muslims in general if they have to be paid to refrain from violence? That isn't exactly a ringing endorsement for a peaceful Islam.

The payoff money goes to the King/Dictator and not to the people.

His job is to pacify (oppress) the citizens and squash any groups who would rally against Israel or the West.

But the average Jordanian knows the game and resents being subjugated by U.S. and Israeli interests in their own country.

Jordan needs it's own version of the so called Arab Spring to get that nation back on track with it's core Islamic values.

Well I'll take your opinion under advisement. But whether the U.S.A. directly bribes the Jordanians to be peaceful or whether they bribe the King to maintain peace, it still doesn't speak well for the peaceful nature of Islam does it? Are you sure you want to frame your argument in those terms? I'm not the one who suggested the Jordanians are peaceful because they are paid to be peaceful, however. If that was the case, would we have Pakistani children marching in the streets chanting "death to America" today? Pakistan gets a far sight more in American dollars than Jordan does.

 

[Sunni Man]

Well I'll take your opinion under advisement. But whether the U.S.A. directly bribes the Jordanians to be peaceful or whether they bribe the King to maintain peace, it still doesn't speak well for the peaceful nature of Islam does it? Are you sure you want to frame your argument in those terms? I'm not the one who suggested the Jordanians are peaceful because they are paid to be peaceful, however. If that was the case, would we have Pakistani children marching in the streets chanting "death to America" today? Pakistan gets a far sight more in American dollars than Jordan does.

Divide aid dollars into the populations of both Jordan and Pakistan; and you will quickly see that Pakistan is getting pennies per citizen compared to Jordan.

 

[Foxfyre]

Ah, so the more they are paid, the more peaceful Muslims will be? Is that what you are saying?

 

[Sunni Man]

Ah, so the more they are paid, the more peaceful Muslims will be? Is that what you are saying?

You know that's not what I am saying or implied.

 

[Foxfyre]

Ah, so the more they are paid, the more peaceful Muslims will be? Is that what you are saying?

You know that's not what I am saying or implied.

But that is what you said, wasn't it? If not, then please correct my impresion. What is it that you intended to say when you say that U.S. dollars have kept Jordan peaceful, and when you suggest that Pakistan is less peaceful because it receives less per capita.

 

[BecauseIKnow]

Ah, so the more they are paid, the more peaceful Muslims will be? Is that what you are saying?

You know that's not what I am saying or implied.

But that is what you said, wasn't it? If not, then please correct my impresion. What is it that you intended to say when you say that U.S. dollars have kept Jordan peaceful, and when you suggest that Pakistan is less peaceful because it receives less per capita.

What does peaceful mean to you? Bowing down to Israel and what Israel says? You are saying that all Arab countries should shutup and let the dictators rule and do what we want

 

[Foxfyre]

You know that's not what I am saying or implied.

But that is what you said, wasn't it? If not, then please correct my impresion. What is it that you intended to say when you say that U.S. dollars have kept Jordan peaceful, and when you suggest that Pakistan is less peaceful because it receives less per capita.

What does peaceful mean to you? Bowing down to Israel and what Israel says? You are saying that all Arab countries should shutup and let the dictators rule and do what we want

BIK, this thread is not about Israel. It is about free speech vs angry militant Islam. There is no problem with Israeli Muslims and if you want to discuss Islam there are many threads on USB to do that. If you wish to discuss the topic of this thread, please focus on that.

 

[BecauseIKnow]

But that is what you said, wasn't it? If not, then please correct my impresion. What is it that you intended to say when you say that U.S. dollars have kept Jordan peaceful, and when you suggest that Pakistan is less peaceful because it receives less per capita.

What does peaceful mean to you? Bowing down to Israel and what Israel says? You are saying that all Arab countries should shutup and let the dictators rule and do what we want

BIK, this thread is not about Israel. It is about free speech vs angry militant Islam. There is no problem with Israeli Muslims and if you want to discuss Islam there are many threads on USB to do that. If you wish to discuss the topic of this thread, please focus on that.

I know that but when you say peaceful that's exactly what you meant. And Libyans have attacked a militsnt base they found....and Yemen, Somali are all fighting alqaeda or alqaeda like groups that destabilize everything. Freedom of speech is allowe in America. Again you need to define militant Islam. Groups aren't there just for Islam. Define this for us and after your defintion I guarantee it will go back to the post I had on what you consider militant groups to be

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

You know that's not what I am saying or implied.

But that is what you said, wasn't it? If not, then please correct my impresion. What is it that you intended to say when you say that U.S. dollars have kept Jordan peaceful, and when you suggest that Pakistan is less peaceful because it receives less per capita.

What does peaceful mean to you? Bowing down to Israel and what Israel says? You are saying that all Arab countries should shutup and let the dictators rule and do what we want

Israel is a sliver of a country among thousands of square miles of land. The mere fact that you have to blame that fanatics constantly blame them__ It's illogical.

 

[BecauseIKnow]

But that is what you said, wasn't it? If not, then please correct my impresion. What is it that you intended to say when you say that U.S. dollars have kept Jordan peaceful, and when you suggest that Pakistan is less peaceful because it receives less per capita.

What does peaceful mean to you? Bowing down to Israel and what Israel says? You are saying that all Arab countries should shutup and let the dictators rule and do what we want

Israel is a sliver of a country among thousands of square miles of land. The mere fact that you have to blame that fanatics constantly blame them__ It's illogical.

No one blamed them for anything. She made an awkard post about how Jordanians are only peaceful for money and she meant what she meant...so let me discuss it with her

 

[Sunni Man]

Ah, so the more they are paid, the more peaceful Muslims will be? Is that what you are saying?

You know that's not what I am saying or implied.

But that is what you said, wasn't it? If not, then please correct my impresion. What is it that you intended to say when you say that U.S. dollars have kept Jordan peaceful, and when you suggest that Pakistan is less peaceful because it receives less per capita.

I never suggested any such thing.

My oh my, how you like to twist and turn things around to suit your warped agenda.

 

[Foxfyre]

What does peaceful mean to you? Bowing down to Israel and what Israel says? You are saying that all Arab countries should shutup and let the dictators rule and do what we want

Israel is a sliver of a country among thousands of square miles of land. The mere fact that you have to blame that fanatics constantly blame them__ It's illogical.

No one blamed them for anything. She made an awkard post about how Jordanians are only peaceful for money and she meant what she meant...so let me discuss it with her

No dear. I am not the one who suggested that the Jordanians are peaceful for money. You need to read more carefully.

 

[Aristotle]

The problem with free speech is that the speech itself has no regulation, with the exception of what the law decrees as "free speech." The problem I have is that this so-called free speech is not meant to prove a point but to incite. In my view, as I have said before, the similitude of what we call free speech today is that of a person yelling fire in a crowded movie theater. These individuals want to cause disturbance and panic and what not, because its not meant for dialogue but to appease the neo-conservatives. When radical muslims act, there is that "see, Islam is dangerous" effect.

There is no genuine dialogue, there is a motive behind all this. This isn't the exercising of free speech in a dialogue. This is the "let's see how many Muslims we can piss off." Freedom of speech is a guise behind all this nonsensical crap we see.

 

[Foxfyre]

You know that's not what I am saying or implied.

But that is what you said, wasn't it? If not, then please correct my impresion. What is it that you intended to say when you say that U.S. dollars have kept Jordan peaceful, and when you suggest that Pakistan is less peaceful because it receives less per capita.

I never suggested any such thing.

My oh my, how you like to twist and turn things around to suit your warped agenda.

I am pretty sure my agenda is not warped. My agenda is for there not to be Islamic outrage over some cartoon in an obscrure newspaper or mayhem committed because of some stupid youtube video. How is your ageda different? My agenda is promotion of freedom and free speech. What is yours? My agenda is to believe whatever one wishes to believe without fear they'll be murdered by an angry mob because they believe. Do you have a different one?

 

[BecauseIKnow]

Israel is a sliver of a country among thousands of square miles of land. The mere fact that you have to blame that fanatics constantly blame them__ It's illogical.

No one blamed them for anything. She made an awkard post about how Jordanians are only peaceful for money and she meant what she meant...so let me discuss it with her

No dear. I am not the one who suggested that the Jordanians are peaceful for money. You need to read more carefully.

You did make that suggestion. Sunni didn't say that you misunderstood him

 

[Foxfyre]

No one blamed them for anything. She made an awkard post about how Jordanians are only peaceful for money and she meant what she meant...so let me discuss it with her

No dear. I am not the one who suggested that the Jordanians are peaceful for money. You need to read more carefully.

You did make that suggestion. Sunni didn't say that you misunderstood him

If I did, please quote it. In full context in the discussion please.

 

[Foxfyre]

I am also putting BecauseIKnow and SunniMan on notice that I will not further respond to posts that do not directly address the issue of free speech and militant Islamic violence as a result of it. I would very much appreciate this thread not being derailed. If BIK can prove I said what he accuses me of, I will apologize for that because I certainly did not intend to say any such thing.