Free Speech vs an Angry Islamic World

[ScienceRocks]

Islam is a religion that wants to silence people through death. Think about that for a second. There's no debate or arguing with these people...Just violence. We have to tiptoe around the "feelings" of these 7th century animals on the most basic of human rights. We the United states of America are cow-toeing our beliefs to a bunch of violent savages.

Obama supposed to be a liberal? LOL! A real liberal would tell this religion of hate to go to hell. He would value woman rights, freedom of speech and idea's more than life it's self. With Obama we're showing great weakness to a people that want us to convert or die. I'm sorry but if Obama keeps showing weakness it will just get worse.

Obama must stand up for our freedom of speech. If not I fear he may go down as the worse president in the history of this country for what will happen.

Why do I feel he may go down as the worst?
1# This cracks the the door for limiting our freedom of speech that isn't likeable. Pretty much our government could ban whatever if this is acceptable.
2# Islam will be empowered to be more and more violent. It has one goal in mind: Complete rule over the planet through violence if need be. Only the threat of outright force has stopped them for the past thousand years.

 

[BecauseIKnow]

I was born here. And I would never take any advice from a unemployed anti muslim hater. Middle east is fine. It's not like the West but it's fine. Maybe you should go there one day

 

[Katzndogz]

17 funny people killed so far.

Good. Should be more.

 

[High_Gravity]

Yes indeed, we see them doing all that worrying about their countries.

They are living life like normal. Muslims from the middle east aren't going on the Internet 24/7 with conspiracy theories about Christians at all. If you guys weren't so silly then have a mature conversation. This conversation with HG and FOxfre almost sounds pre planned. Just look it. It's going back and forth" yes Muslims did this. Yes they were Muslims. Yes Muslims want us at their feet."

It's so silly and funny

Yes laying siege to Embassies and killing an Ambassador is "normal" to them, sadly you are right.

 

[High_Gravity]

Why do thousands of Muslims try to come to the USA each year from the Middle east if everything is fine? for the weather? beer? strip clubs?

 

[High_Gravity]

Laying siege to US Embassies is not "protesting".

 

[BecauseIKnow]

Economy and they come to get their children to experience the American dream. Which is the top of the line education. To me the middle east is fine. I don't go there and start cursing everything I see. Maybe because im a patient and respectful person.

 

[BecauseIKnow]

If that were true none of these events that have been happening in Libya, Egypt, Pakistan, Gaza, Indonesia etc etc would have even taken place.

Little protests. Protests are normal in the middle east

Laying siege to US Embassies is not "protesting".

There are no embassies in gaza. And yes it's was a few days. With military there in Egypt and Libya. So it all should be back to normal soon

 

[High_Gravity]

Little protests. Protests are normal in the middle east

Laying siege to US Embassies is not "protesting".

There are no embassies in gaza. And yes it's was a few days. With military there in Egypt and Libya. So it all should be back to normal soon

I don't think anything about this is "normal". These people are doing this over a fucking cartoon man, you think this is ok?

 

[Ravi]

BENGHAZI, Libya — Around 30,000 Libyans marched through the eastern city of Benghazi on Friday in an unprecedented protest to demand the disbanding of powerful militias in the wake of last week’s attack that killed the U.S. ambassador and three other Americans.

The attack on the U.S. Consulate in Benghazi, in which at least one militia is suspected of participating, has sparked a backlash among many Libyans against the multiple armed factions that have run rampant for months in cities around the country. The militias have become more powerful than the regular security forces, and successive governments since last year’s fall of Moammar Gadhafi have been unable to rein them in.

Other signs mourned the killing of U.S. Amb. Chris Stevens, reading, “The ambassador was Libya’s friend” and “Libya lost a friend.”

Libyans hold giant march demanding militias disband in wake of attack on US consulate - The Washington Post

do some soul searching.

 

[BecauseIKnow]

Laying siege to US Embassies is not "protesting".

There are no embassies in gaza. And yes it's was a few days. With military there in Egypt and Libya. So it all should be back to normal soon

I don't think anything about this is "normal". These people are doing this over a fucking cartoon man, you think this is ok?

It's not a cartoon. It's over the movie. I wouldn't protest at an embassy just like 99% of Egyptians wouldn't. Because its a waste of time. And the American embassy had nothing to do with it. I would be offended like everybody else. But I don't care about one person who makes a troll like movie.

 

[ScienceRocks]

 

[Foxfyre]

BENGHAZI, Libya — Around 30,000 Libyans marched through the eastern city of Benghazi on Friday in an unprecedented protest to demand the disbanding of powerful militias in the wake of last week’s attack that killed the U.S. ambassador and three other Americans.

The attack on the U.S. Consulate in Benghazi, in which at least one militia is suspected of participating, has sparked a backlash among many Libyans against the multiple armed factions that have run rampant for months in cities around the country. The militias have become more powerful than the regular security forces, and successive governments since last year’s fall of Moammar Gadhafi have been unable to rein them in.

Other signs mourned the killing of U.S. Amb. Chris Stevens, reading, “The ambassador was Libya’s friend” and “Libya lost a friend.”

Libyans hold giant march demanding militias disband in wake of attack on US consulate - The Washington Post

do some soul searching.

While it is encouraging and does illustrate that all Muslims do not support the Islamic terrorists, the article you linked is not encouraging that militant Islam will be reined in:

The march was the biggest seen in Benghazi, Libya’s second largest city and home to 1 million people, since the fall of Gadhafi in August 2011. The unprecedented public backlash comes in part in frustration with the interim government, which has been unable to rein in the armed factions. Many say that officials’ attempts to co-opt fighters by paying them have only fueled the growth of militias without bringing them under state control or integrating them into the regular forces

It seems that peaceful Muslims, like the United States, have attempted to deal with the situation with apologies, appeasement, and bribery. It isn't working. Will peaceful Islam take up arms against the militants? I don't know. Obviously in Syria, the militants are willingto to slaughter tens of thousands of their own people, but that is militants fighting those who want freedom. Will it work the other way around? So far, we haven't seen any evidence of that.

 

[BecauseIKnow]

Foxfre it depends what you consider militant Islam and what the West is doing in those specific countries that have militant groups. For example,people in Afghanistan don't know what to choose and who to support. They get attacked by both sides NATO and Taliban, collateral damage also. They can't choose to Condemn or erase Taliban if NATO and American forces are there. When they leave it will change. And some militant groups are legitimate groups who came out of the conflict like Palestinian militant groups who defend their people from Israel.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

So the question in my mind is: knowing what militant Islam's response to this kind of thing is, should it be prohibited? There is a part of me that questions the ethics of intentionally inflaming militant Muslims knowing that people will likely die.

First, we need to stop thinking in terms of ‘militant Islam’ and ‘militant Muslims,’ as it serves only to cloud the issue and inject needless, subjective emotion into the discussion. It also (however unintended) affords criminals who happen to be Muslim some degree of ‘legitimacy,’ as if their ‘grievance’ and violent acts are somehow sanctioned or justified.

Second, we need to realize that this is a political, not religious, issue; that the criminals who attacked the embassies – the consulate in Libya in particular – are part of an internal political struggle. Indeed, most if not all of the criminals who attacked the US consulate in Libya had never seen the film in question.

And there is a part of me that so resents free speech being set aside in deference to any religious (or other) figure or personality, I wonder what would happen if everybody insulted Islam's prophet simultaneously making it virtually impossible for them to target any one person or country?

Consequently, with the understanding the issue is political, not religious, and that those who commit criminal acts hiding behind the façade of ‘Islam insulted’ are cowards, we are no longer subject to an ethical dilemma, where we are concerned our advocacy of free expression might lead to needless death.

We are thus free to engage in free expression – even if that expression is perceived as offensive by some – unfettered by concerns as to the consequence of that speech, as those who respond violently are alone responsible.

 

[Foxfyre]

Foxfre it depends what you consider militant Islam and what the West is doing in those specific countries that have militant groups. For example,people in Afghanistan don't know what to choose and who to support. They get attacked by both sides NATO and Taliban, collateral damage also. They can't choose to Condemn or erase Taliban if NATO and American forces are there. When they leave it will change. And some militant groups are legitimate groups who came out of the conflict like Palestinian militant groups who defend their people from Israel.

I can accept that they shy away from direct support of NATO against the Taliban because, as you say, NATO won't always be there and the Taliban will be. But the bitter truth is that if the Taliban is in control, there will be no freedom and no safety for anyone else. That was the case before 9/11 and it will certainly be that way again.

If you have a forward thinking and more peaceful minded head of state such as King Hussein of Jordan, there is more peace. Jordan signed a peace treaty with and has open trade with Israel, for instance, which is not the case with most Islamic countries. But even in Jordan:

The constitution stipulates that the state religion is Islam, but provides for the freedom to practice the rites of one's religion and faith in accordance with the customs that are observed in the kingdom, unless they violate public order or morality. The constitution also stipulates that there shall be no discrimination in the rights and duties of citizens on grounds of religion; however, the government's application of Shari'a (Islamic law) infringes upon the religious rights and freedoms laid out in the constitution by prohibiting conversion from Islam and discriminating against religious minorities in some matters relating to family law. Members of unrecognized religious groups also face legal discrimination.

The status of respect for religious freedom by the government was unchanged during the reporting period. The government continued to harass some citizens and resident foreign groups suspected of proselytizing Muslims and a few Muslim converts to Christianity, including by attempting to induce them to revert to Islam; but the intensity of the harassment declined during the reporting period. The Islamic law court, which has family law jurisdiction for Muslims, continued apostasy proceedings against a convert from Islam. Conversion from Islam is not permitted under Islamic law, and any such converts risk the loss of civil rights
Jordan

Such is the case everywhere. There is no true freedom in ANY Islamic country, and in all cases there are renegade Islamic terrorist groups running amuck with little interference by their governments or the other people and/or the government assigns the limited rights the people may have under Sharia Law. The people of the United States would be quite naive to believe that a Muslim President and a majority of Muslim in Congress would feel obligated to follow the dictates of any court and would not impose Sharia Law here.

 

[BecauseIKnow]

Foxfre don't go around lying. Taliban doesn't have full control. The afghani goverment controls everything. Don't expect a war torn population to start doing your favors.

And militant groups will always exist as long as a threatening Israeli military always exists. Palestinains aren't stupid to believe that crap. They have lived in the conflcit. The king of Jordan hasn't experienced what Palestinians have experienced. Israel will always threaten Palestinians and their ability to ever run their economy. They won't let it. They control their borders and don't want to see a thriving economy competing with Israel.

'Israel aimed to keep Gaza econom... JPost - Diplomacy & Politics

 

[Foxfyre]

Foxfre don't go around lying. Taliban doesn't have full control. The afghani goverment controls everything. Don't expect a war torn population to start doing your favors.

And militant groups will always exist as long as a threatening Israeli military always exists. Palestinains aren't stupid to believe that crap. They have lived in the conflcit. The king of Jordan hasn't experienced what Palestinians have experienced. Israel will always threaten Palestinians and their ability to ever run their economy. They won't let it. They control their borders and don't want to see a thriving economy competing with Israel.

'Israel aimed to keep Gaza econom... JPost - Diplomacy & Politics

The Afghani government exists because NATO insists on its existence. Please give me your theory of how it will continue to exist and the Taliban will remain out of control once NATO leaves.

And you keep complaining about conspiracy theories but you blame this whole thing on Israel? Really? The murders in the Lybian consulate were Israel's fault? If so, then Islam is even more screwed up than I thought.

 

[BecauseIKnow]

Foxfre don't go around lying. Taliban doesn't have full control. The afghani goverment controls everything. Don't expect a war torn population to start doing your favors.

And militant groups will always exist as long as a threatening Israeli military always exists. Palestinains aren't stupid to believe that crap. They have lived in the conflcit. The king of Jordan hasn't experienced what Palestinians have experienced. Israel will always threaten Palestinians and their ability to ever run their economy. They won't let it. They control their borders and don't want to see a thriving economy competing with Israel.

'Israel aimed to keep Gaza econom... JPost - Diplomacy & Politics

The Afghani government exists because NATO insists on its existence. Please give me your theory of how it will continue to exist and the Taliban will remain out of control once NATO leaves.

And you keep complaining about conspiracy theories but you blame this whole thing on Israel? Really?

Afghani goverment has control and talks would be the right way. We saw what violence results in. Violence.

And I didn't blame Israel for anything I responded to your hiliarious allegation that palestinans are to make peace and should drop their weopons. Except that it's not in their hands at all. Palestinians can't make land concessions, Israel can, palestinians don't built settlements, Israel does, palestinaisn don't decide anything on the negotiating table, Israel does and Israel under netyanhu basically said Palestinians get nothing and we get all at the speech in front of the US Congress

[ame=http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=x8GMNwDJzgo]YouTube - Breakdown of Netanyahu's Appearance in US Congress[/ame]

 

[Papageorgio]

Economy and they come to get their children to experience the American dream. Which is the top of the line education. To me the middle east is fine. I don't go there and start cursing everything I see. Maybe because im a patient and respectful person.

Unless the people are on the the right, then you get bitchy and intolerant.