Foundational Falsehoods of Creationism

[Liability]

If the BIG BANG theory can posit that all space/time and matter/energy can come into existence without having been created by something that existed "prior" to its creation, then why could not a God come into existence from a "vacuum" without Himself "being" a vaccuum?

Your phony BBT violates the First Law of Thermodynamics, which says Energy can neither be CREATED nor destroyed. The actual BBT relates only to the beginning of TIME not energy. The Energy that went "bang" has always existed and will always exist in the exact same quantity only its form can change. In science time exists ONLY in terms of motion, so the BB event horizon is the point where motion began.

How did energy "always" exist before there was "time." Always is a part of that whole "time" thing, dipshit.

 

[JBeukema]

If the BIG BANG theory can posit that all space/time and matter/energy can come into existence without having been created by something that existed "prior" to its creation, then why could not a God come into existence from a "vacuum" without Himself "being" a vaccuum?

Your phony BBT violates the First Law of Thermodynamics, which says Energy can neither be CREATED nor destroyed. The actual BBT relates only to the beginning of TIME not energy. The Energy that went "bang" has always existed and will always exist in the exact same quantity only its form can change. In science time exists ONLY in terms of motion, so the BB event horizon is the point where motion began.

How did energy "always" exist before there was "time." Always is a part of that whole "time" thing, dipshit.

How did god "always" exist before there was "time." Always is a part of that whole "time" thing, dipshit

How did a creator "always" exist before there was "time." Always is a part of that whole "time" thing, dipshit



I have already shown how a first cause (something that is first in a chin of events, eg: creation) is impossible. This latest D@rth Dumbass has still yet to refute it

 

[edthecynic]

If the BIG BANG theory can posit that all space/time and matter/energy can come into existence without having been created by something that existed "prior" to its creation, then why could not a God come into existence from a "vacuum" without Himself "being" a vaccuum?

Your phony BBT violates the First Law of Thermodynamics, which says Energy can neither be CREATED nor destroyed. The actual BBT relates only to the beginning of TIME not energy. The Energy that went "bang" has always existed and will always exist in the exact same quantity only its form can change. In science time exists ONLY in terms of motion, so the BB event horizon is the point where motion began.

How did energy "always" exist before there was "time." Always is a part of that whole "time" thing, dipshit.

Because time has a beginning and an end, Energy doesn't.
Again, time exists ONLY in terms of motion and Energy exists independent of time.

 

[Liability]

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I have already shown how a first cause (something that is first in a chin of events, eg: creation) is impossible. This latest D@rth Dumbass has still yet to refute it

Perhaps that has something to do with the fact that all your self-congratulation notwithstanding, you have never "shown" any such thing.

Once again, what you are rather mindlessly parroting (sans the ability to comprehend) is that everything known to science has a cause or set of causes -- EXCEPT -- according to your magical thinking initial premise -- that "in the beginning" this fundamental rule of science did not apply.

You have zero explanation for how or why this might be so. You just regurgitate it.

Some of you cliquish long-time USMB simpletons are amusing. Unpersuasive --because you tend to be idiots -- but amusing all the same.

 

[Smartt33]

I have said nothing that is dishonest, and you cannot quote a single place where I have. You have no conclusion that has positive proof. Only theories.

Now that you've demonstrated your complete ignorance of science and lack of comprehension regarding what a theory is, I see that wasting any time on you was a mistake

So, now I can ignore your disrespect and outright stupidity, and you can ignore my ignorance. I have no problem saying that I am basically ignorant about the so called science of evolution. I cannot comment on what I don't know, but I can comment on my personal relationship with God. You cannot.

 

[Kalam]

Energy doesn't.

Demonstrate that energy has no beginning.

Again, time exists ONLY in terms of motion and Energy exists independent of time.

Demonstrate this as well. Provide an example of energy existing independently of time.

 

[Kalam]

So, now I can ignore your disrespect and outright stupidity, and you can ignore my ignorance. I have no problem saying that I am basically ignorant about the so called science of evolution. I cannot comment on what I don't know, but I can comment on my personal relationship with God. You cannot.

If you reject something out of hand simply because you think it's at odds with your beliefs, you're being extremely narrow-minded. If you're unfamiliar with evolutionary theory, what business do you have attempting to argue against it?

 

[edthecynic]

Energy doesn't.

Demonstrate that energy has no beginning.

Again, time exists ONLY in terms of motion and Energy exists independent of time.

Demonstrate this as well. Provide an example of energy existing independently of time.

I already gave the First Law of Thermodynamics, proven with a repeatable experiment by James Prescott Joule. Since Energy can't be created or destroyed it can't increase or decrease, therefore Energy is a constant. Time however is relative to motion.

 

[Kalam]

I already gave the First Law of Thermodynamics, proven with a repeatable experiment by James Prescott Joule. Since Energy can't be created or destroyed it can't increase or decrease, therefore Energy is a constant. Time however is relative to motion.

Energy conservation only applies to energy in an isolated system. The nonexistence that preceded the universe was not an isolated system and obviously wasn't bound by the laws that are now in effect. Energy is only a constant in an isolated system that already exists.

 

[edthecynic]

I already gave the First Law of Thermodynamics, proven with a repeatable experiment by James Prescott Joule. Since Energy can't be created or destroyed it can't increase or decrease, therefore Energy is a constant. Time however is relative to motion.

Energy conservation only applies to energy in an isolated system. The nonexistence that preceded the universe was not an isolated system and obviously wasn't bound by the laws that are now in effect. Energy is only a constant in an isolated system that already exists.

You have the FLoT confused with the Second.

 

[Kalam]

I already gave the First Law of Thermodynamics, proven with a repeatable experiment by James Prescott Joule. Since Energy can't be created or destroyed it can't increase or decrease, therefore Energy is a constant. Time however is relative to motion.

Energy conservation only applies to energy in an isolated system. The nonexistence that preceded the universe was not an isolated system and obviously wasn't bound by the laws that are now in effect. Energy is only a constant in an isolated system that already exists.

You have the FLoT confused with the Second.

The first deals with conservation of energy. The second is the law of increasing entropy. I guess you could apply my statements to the second but I was referring to the first. Energy constancy is in effect only where energy already exists.

 

[JBeukema]

ignore my ignorance.

The smartest words you've ever typed

 

[edthecynic]

Energy conservation only applies to energy in an isolated system. The nonexistence that preceded the universe was not an isolated system and obviously wasn't bound by the laws that are now in effect. Energy is only a constant in an isolated system that already exists.

You have the FLoT confused with the Second.

The first deals with conservation of energy. The second is the law of increasing entropy. I guess you could apply my statements to the second but I was referring to the first. Energy constancy is in effect only where energy already exists.

There is no law of INCREASING entropy. And since Energy can't be created whatever Energy exists has always existed.

 

[Kalam]

There is no law of INCREASING entropy.

Law of increasing entropy - Encyclopedia of Humanthermodynamics

And since Energy can't be created

This applies only to isolated systems in which energy already exists.

whatever Energy exists has always existed.

This conclusion is unsound - your premise is flawed.

 

[edthecynic]

There is no law of INCREASING entropy.

Law of increasing entropy - Encyclopedia of Humanthermodynamics

Law of increasing entropy
In thermodynamics, the law of increasing entropy is loose metaphor for the second law of thermodynamics. In the 1964 Translator’s Introduction to Boltzmann’s Gas Theory, for instance, physics historian Stephen Brush, comments that: “Boltzmann was able to deduce immediately a very important result from his equation, which was not at all obvious from Maxwell’s original formulation: a quantity called H, which can be identified with the negative of the entropy, must always decrease or remain constant,

A "loose metaphor" does not a Law of physics make!!!
But even your loose metaphor admits that entropy can remain CONSTANT, and of course, if entropy remains constant it is NOT increasing, thus violating any so called "law" of INCREASING entropy.

 

[Liability]

Energy doesn't.

Demonstrate that energy has no beginning.

Again, time exists ONLY in terms of motion and Energy exists independent of time.

Demonstrate this as well. Provide an example of energy existing independently of time.

I already gave the First Law of Thermodynamics, proven with a repeatable experiment by James Prescott Joule. Since Energy can't be created or destroyed it can't increase or decrease, therefore Energy is a constant. Time however is relative to motion.

Yeah yeah. And so where does it COME from? Your magical thinking type answer is that it "always" existed even before there was "time." Uh huh. And so from where did the Universal Pre-Existing State come from? Or, stated in another way, what "happened" that resulted in that STATE changing into the Universse WE know? WHY would it change?

Your "answer" doesn't address the larger questions because it has no actual explanatory power.

The Laws of Thermodynamics exist in THIS Universe as WE know it. But those laws appear NOT to have obtained in the state that pre-existed the Big Pop.


I am tempted to say that energy can be created, but you'd just quibble that it actually only get's released or changes state. And that is (as far as we grasp such things) true, but it doesn't alter the fact that you say things without really understanding the implications of what you are saying.

 

[edthecynic]

Demonstrate that energy has no beginning.


Demonstrate this as well. Provide an example of energy existing independently of time.

I already gave the First Law of Thermodynamics, proven with a repeatable experiment by James Prescott Joule. Since Energy can't be created or destroyed it can't increase or decrease, therefore Energy is a constant. Time however is relative to motion.

Yeah yeah. And so where does it COME from? Your magical thinking type answer is that it "always" existed even before there was "time." Uh huh. And so from where did the Universal Pre-Existing State come from? Or, stated in another way, what "happened" that resulted in that STATE changing into the Universse WE know? WHY would it change?

Your "answer" doesn't address the larger questions because it has no actual explanatory power.

The Laws of Thermodynamics exist in THIS Universe as WE know it. But those laws appear NOT to have obtained in the state that pre-existed the Big Pop.

I am tempted to say that energy can be created, but you'd just quibble that it actually only get's released or changes state. And that is (as far as we grasp such things) true, but it doesn't alter the fact that you say things without really understanding the implications of what you are saying.

A perfect example of the first quote in my sig.

Again, time is related to motion. Energy does not "COME from," it IS. There is a singular unstable moment when all the Energy of the universe is neither expanding or contracting. For that moment time does not exist but Energy still does.
Think of tossing a ball straight up in the air, there is one singular unstable moment when the ball is neither rising nor falling. So too when all the Energy in the universe has been compressed into one point by a supermassive black hole and before this same Energy begins expanding in the BB there is a singularity where the Energy of the universe is not expanding or contracting, a moment where time does not exist. Only time begins at the BB. Energy exists before, during, and after the BB.

 

[UltraModernist]

The Laws of Thermodynamics exist in THIS Universe as WE know it. But those laws appear NOT to have obtained in the state that pre-existed the Big Pop.

indeed you are an idiot and you talk nonsense as unconscious

Again, time is related to motion. Energy does not "COME from," it IS

did our planetary system arise naturally without any gods ? yes
did our galaxy arise naturally without any gods ? yes
so the same we can say about the universe - because it is like galaxy of galaxies, and Galaxy is system of planetary systems

 

[JBeukema]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_vpEyE6rug&feature=related]YouTube - Parallel Universes - Part 1[/ame]

 

[Liability]

* * * *

A perfect example of the first quote in my sig.

^ A perfect example of your endless supply of dishonesty and baseless self-congratulation.

Again, time is related to motion. Energy does not "COME from," it IS. There is a singular unstable moment when all the Energy of the universe is neither expanding or contracting. For that moment time does not exist but Energy still does.
Think of tossing a ball straight up in the air, there is one singular unstable moment when the ball is neither rising nor falling. So too when all the Energy in the universe has been compressed into one point by a supermassive black hole and before this same Energy begins expanding in the BB there is a singularity where the Energy of the universe is not expanding or contracting, a moment where time does not exist. Only time begins at the BB. Energy exists before, during, and after the BB.

Again, your make-believe "answer" actually fails to answer much of anything. Energy is composed of ---------. What? Go ahead. Fill in the blank.

Where did THAT stuff come from? How did it come into existence?

What you persist in claiming is that something exists which was never "created." How did THAT happen, exactly? Your answer (which just hangs there and loops in on itself, but otherwise fails to answer a single thing) is something that boils down to: "it is and always was 'there.'" * Uh huh. But you seem genuinely unable to comprehend that it DOES exist and -- energy cannot be created. So, it exists without having been created. And in no other thing in life would you be silly enough to maintain that something can exist that did not at some point come into existence from something.

_______________
* Sounds a little bit like, "I AM that I AM."