Foundational Falsehoods of Creationism

[JBeukema]

The problem with your abstract that the universe is losing energy because it cools as it expands is, taken to its logical conclusion, at some point all the energy of the universe will be lost and everything in the universe will come to a permanent halt. This violates the Third Law of Thermodynamics which says there is no temperature at which all motion stops permanently (Absolute Zero).

What? Where'd you get that?

As a system approaches absolute zero, all processes cease and the entropy of the system approaches a minimum value

If the entropy of each element in some (perfect) crystalline state be taken as zero at the absolute zero of temperature, every substance has a finite positive entropy; but at the absolute zero of temperature the entropy may become zero, and does so become in the case of perfect crystalline substances.

Third law of thermodynamics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Oh come off it. It is an established law of science that nothing can exist prior to itself.

plus

{Nothing} can exist without being created (excepting the essential paricles {sic} of matter/energy)

= self-refutation and contradiction

You just established that everything that is is created, with the exception of the original particles of matter themselves

'Everything that was created'? You've yet to demonstrate creation
'

The reality is that nothing (with that initial set of possible exceptions) exists without being created.

Demonstrate that anything must be 'created'

And it came from absolutely nothing at all according to you guys.

Yay, another strawman! As you've already been called on this, it's clear that we're dealing not with an ignorant fool, but with a liar

 

[JBeukema]

And where exactly does that say, "NOTHING can exist prior to itself?" The closest you can get is, nothing can exist that isn't Energy.

Matter = Engergy

 

[Liability]

nothing exists without being created

this sentence is abnormal

And you STILL think you have something that is explanatory.

you haven't any knowledge and you came on the forum - go learn anything, if you are able to do it in this abnormal state

No no. You are terminally confused. You were born ignorant, acquired no actual knowledge, do not understand the things you think you've learned and remain in the dark about almost everything in life due to your abiding ignorance and confusion, and when the day arrives, you will die in abject ignorance and confusion.

Your expression of your standard ignorant and arrogant opinions cannot change any of that.

 

[Liability]

And where exactly does that say, "NOTHING can exist prior to itself?" The closest you can get is, nothing can exist that isn't Energy.

Matter = Engergy

Actually, matter does NOT equal energy, but we have learned that under the right circumstances, matter can be converted into energy.

 

[Liability]

* * * *

= self-refutation and contradiction

* * * *

Coming from YOU after the silliness you constantly spew, that's funny.

In any case, you also fail logic. To say that nothing is X except Y is NOT to say that there is no X. If one acknowledges tht Y is the exception that = x, then it isn't a contradiction.

Go ask a nice adult to explain things to you.

 

[edthecynic]

And where exactly does that say, "NOTHING can exist prior to itself?" The closest you can get is, nothing can exist that isn't Energy.

Matter = Engergy

Actually, matter does NOT equal energy, but we have learned that under the right circumstances, matter can be converted into energy.

E=mc2

 

[edthecynic]

The problem with your abstract that the universe is losing energy because it cools as it expands is, taken to its logical conclusion, at some point all the energy of the universe will be lost and everything in the universe will come to a permanent halt. This violates the Third Law of Thermodynamics which says there is no temperature at which all motion stops permanently (Absolute Zero).

What? Where'd you get that?

absolute zero and molecular motion

Answer 1: If it were possible to attain a temperature absolute zero
for a material then all the vibrations/random motions will
stop. It is not possible to reach absolute zero - it is
not possible in theory or in practice according to our
present understanding.

 

[UltraModernist]

"nothing can exist prior to itself"

but can exist something else, earlier, from which this something arose

for example Tree can't exist prior itself, but prior this tree was existing a seed from which this tree arose
and so on

and now get off my internet you dope

 

[Kalam]

A "loose metaphor" does not a Law of physics make!!!
But even your loose metaphor admits that entropy can remain CONSTANT, and of course, if entropy remains constant it is NOT increasing, thus violating any so called "law" of INCREASING entropy.

If it is possible for an increase in entropy to occur, the probability of that eventually happening is one. If entropy never decreases - and it doesn't - the universe experiences net gains in entropy and follows what could be described as a law of increasing entropy. This is all very elementary.

 

[edthecynic]

A "loose metaphor" does not a Law of physics make!!!
But even your loose metaphor admits that entropy can remain CONSTANT, and of course, if entropy remains constant it is NOT increasing, thus violating any so called "law" of INCREASING entropy.

If it is possible for an increase in entropy to occur, the probability of that eventually happening is one. If entropy never decreases - and it doesn't - the universe experiences net gains in entropy and follows what could be described as a law of increasing entropy. This is all very elementary.

You have a short memory. You tried this argument on another thread, remember?

http://www.usmessageboard.com/1150525-post242.html

The entropy of the universe remaining constant means the entropy of the universe equals zero.

The role of expansion for the entropy of the universe
Ulrych, Emil; Voracek, Pavel
Astrophysics and Space Science (ISSN 0004-640X), vol. 186, no. 1, Dec. 1991, p. 157, 158.

It is proposed, under the assumption of the closed Friedmann-Robertson-Walker universe, that the cosmological expansion/contraction on its own has an entropy balancing effectively the changing entropy of the cosmic fluid in such a way that at every epoch the total entropy of the universe remains constant. It is argued that, thermodynamically, the universe, as a whole, behaves like a self-gravitating formation of an adiabatic gas, quite regardless of the processes occurring in the cosmic fluid.

 

[Kalam]

You have a short memory. You tried this argument on another thread, remember?

You have an inaccurate memory. A single, 18-year-old postulation is not sufficient if you're attempting to contradict theoretical intuition and challenge the scientific community's consensus.

The entropy of the universe tends toward a maximum (equilibrium.) It will only remain constant after heat death occurs.

The Second Law of Thermodynamics states that the universe tends toward high entropy. If so, what happens when there is nothing left to be disordered? How can matter be constant?

Entropy and the Universe

 

[edthecynic]

You have a short memory. You tried this argument on another thread, remember?

You have an inaccurate memory. A single, 18-year-old postulation is not sufficient if you're attempting to contradict theoretical intuition and challenge the scientific community's consensus.

The entropy of the universe tends toward a maximum (equilibrium.) It will only remain constant after heat death occurs.

The Second Law of Thermodynamics states that the universe tends toward high entropy. If so, what happens when there is nothing left to be disordered? How can matter be constant?

Entropy and the Universe

The problem is that "heat death" never occurs. We went over this before in the same thread, remember?

The first link continues:

That's a famous question that people thought a lot about in the nineteenth century. It goes under the name of the 'Heat Death of the Universe.' In short, once all of the energy in the universe is converted to heat then the universe will be in equilibrium -- everything will be of the same temperature and entropy will remain constant forever. This is complicated a bit by the fact that the universe is expanding. In an expanding universe you can never really reach equilibrium -- but the scientists of the 1800s didn't know about the expanding universe so let's just assume that the universe is static.

 

[Kalam]

The problem is that "heat death" never occurs.

Demonstrate the impossibility of a heat death in an expanding universe.

 

[edthecynic]

The problem is that "heat death" never occurs.

Demonstrate the impossibility of a heat death in an expanding universe.

Your own link admitted it (I even underlined it for you) and I explained it to you in the old thread. To recap, kinetic energy is the energy of motion and is the energy that does work. As long as the universe is expanding or contracting work can therefore be done. The heat death requires that ALL energy exists ONLY in the form of heat and therefore there can be no kinetic energy.

 

[JW Frogen]

The problem is that "heat death" never occurs.

Demonstrate the impossibility of a heat death in an expanding universe.

Sex with a lesbian prostitute after winning the lottery.

 

[G.T.]

I have a question for the science guru's. (Because I really don't know). If the Universe is constantly expanding, and energy is never created nor destroyed, is the energy thus being spread out and therefore weakened? If so, why would stars like our Sun burn hotter? Just curious, my coffee has me on full "hhrrmmmfff??!?!?!" mode this morning.

 

[JBeukema]

I have a question for the science guru's. (Because I really don't know). If the Universe is constantly expanding, and energy is never created nor destroyed, is the energy thus being spread out and therefore weakened?

The universe gets less dense, if that';s what you mean.

If so, why would stars like our Sun burn hotter?

Clarify?

HowStuffWorks "How Stars Work"

 

[JBeukema]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpFbUI7T6Yk]YouTube - The Baby Universe - From Big Bang To Man (1)[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdwAy9CiGeg]YouTube - 1of6 -- The Expanding Universe - The Big Bang[/ame]

I can't really help more unless you can clarify your question a bit

 

[G.T.]

I can't do links and videos from where I sit. Most sites are blocked and videos don't show up.


What I meant was, the Universe is expanding, correct?

If so, doesn't that mean that Energy (which is a constant amount according to the "rule") is thus spread over a greater area .... thus, less concentrated .... thus weaker? If so, how/why do stars develop enough energy to burn HOTTER. (this does require more ENERGY, yes? No?).

 

[G.T.]

GT, you're too stoopid even for this site, please stfu and go back to advising people on assfucking.

Because it takes a real genius, with such a fulfilling life, to retread over and over and over again and attack random user-names that mean nothing to you at all (at least shouldn't).

Let's have a because you're so , I'm actually honored b/c I've no who YOU are, but you seem to know me! But don't be , I am to have such a fan, one who 's behind multiple usernames in order to perpetuate the same over and over and over, it's kind of , actually. I'll to the assfucking Gods for you, so sit in until your situation turns around.

If you're reading this like , then yes, I did have too much coffee this morning.