For those of you who think Obama has not helped create or save jobs...

[Listening]

Of the nine studies I’ve found, six find that the stimulus had a significant, positive effect on employment and growth, and three find that the effect was either quite small or impossible to detect.

So 33% of the studies came out and said it didn't have an effect of significance. Wow....is that statistically significant ?

 

[Full-Auto]

Again, none of you have sources to counter my OP.

You are entitled to an opinion. Just not your own made up facts.

The point is you can not prove them. MAKING YOU A STALINGRAD.

Well, they aren't my facts, are they?

You are using them. You have taken ownership. Your source can not prove them either.
If they could it would not vary by 20 million.

 

[Rozman]

If the government had cut a check for every person that filed a tax return for the prior year
in the amount of....watch this folks 5 to 25,000.00 it would have been cheaper
and that money would have been spent and would have had more impact.

 

[Listening]

If the government had cut a check for every person that filed a tax return for the prior year
in the amount of....watch this folks 5 to 25,000.00 it would have been cheaper
and that money would have been spent and would have had more impact.

Or just gave us all a credit on our taxes.

I like that better because a significant part of this country does not pay federal income tax.

One more reason to set a 2% minimum from everybody.

 

[Sundial]

PolitiFact Ohio | John Boehner says Obama promised the stimulus would keep unemployment below 8 percent

It's a popular talking point among Republicans, but no one in the Obama administration ever promised the unemployment rate would never go above 8% - or any other number.

That's an incorrect statement actually. Both Christina Romer and Jared Bernstein made the statement that if the Obama Administration was given the stimulus it was looking for that unemployment would not go above 8%. It was their contention that if we DIDN'T do the stimulus they were asking for that unemployment might very well go over 9%.

Even Barney Frank acknowledges the point. I mean, some of these Libs are simply incredulous with their revisionist history. Why do historical facts not matter to some people? I guess they just believe everyone is stupid, you repeat the lie enough and they will just go along with it.

""President Obama, whom I greatly admire ... when the economic recovery bill — we're supposed to call it the 'recovery bill,' not the 'stimulus' bill; that's what the focus groups tell us — he predicted or his aides predicted at the time that if it passed, unemployment would get under 8 percent," Frank said Tuesday evening during an appearance on the Fox Business Network. "That was a dumb thing to do."

Frank: Obama admin 'dumb' to predict no higher than 8% unemployment - The Hill's Blog Briefing Room

Politifact has rated this story false at least three times: once when when it came from Boehner, once from Cantor, and when it came from George Will.

First, we could find no instance of anyone in the administration directly making such a public pledge. Rather, it comes via a Jan. 9, 2009, report...

But what we saw from the administration in January 2009 was a projection, not a promise. And it was a projection that came with heavy disclaimers.

"It should be understood that all of the estimates presented in this memo are subject to significant margins of error," the report states. "There is the more fundamental uncertainty that comes with any estimate of the effects of a program. Our estimates of economic relationships and rules of thumb are derived from historical experience and so will not apply exactly in any given episode. Furthermore, the uncertainty is surely higher than normal now because the current recession is unusual both in its fundamental causes and its severity."

There's also a footnote that goes along with the chart that states: "Forecasts of the unemployment rate without the recovery plan vary substantially. Some private forecasters anticipate unemployment rates as high as 11% in the absence of action."

PolitiFact | Will: Obama said stimulus would cap unemployment at 8 percent
The use of the word "promise" in connection with the report is simply a lie. It's the kind of distortion that's unfortunately typical of Republicans, but it's still a lie.

 

[Oldstyle]

Here's the other problem with your numbers, Billy...

They compare what they "think" might have happened with no stimulus compared to what happened with the Obama Stimulus but they don't compare the Obama Stimulus with a stimulus that primed the private sector and let the public sector contract (which if you believe as I do that government is bloated and inefficient, is a good thing). If we'd spent our trillion dollars THAT way how many jobs would have been created instead of temporarily "saved"? If we'd gone THAT way would the President even need to be back asking for Stimulus II or would growth in the private sector have generated significant revenues...enough to pay for the government that we DO need? Just food for thought.

 

[Oldstyle]

That's an incorrect statement actually. Both Christina Romer and Jared Bernstein made the statement that if the Obama Administration was given the stimulus it was looking for that unemployment would not go above 8%. It was their contention that if we DIDN'T do the stimulus they were asking for that unemployment might very well go over 9%.

Even Barney Frank acknowledges the point. I mean, some of these Libs are simply incredulous with their revisionist history. Why do historical facts not matter to some people? I guess they just believe everyone is stupid, you repeat the lie enough and they will just go along with it.

""President Obama, whom I greatly admire ... when the economic recovery bill — we're supposed to call it the 'recovery bill,' not the 'stimulus' bill; that's what the focus groups tell us — he predicted or his aides predicted at the time that if it passed, unemployment would get under 8 percent," Frank said Tuesday evening during an appearance on the Fox Business Network. "That was a dumb thing to do."

Frank: Obama admin 'dumb' to predict no higher than 8% unemployment - The Hill's Blog Briefing Room

Politifact has rated this story false at least three times: once when when it came from Boehner, once from Cantor, and when it came from George Will.

First, we could find no instance of anyone in the administration directly making such a public pledge. Rather, it comes via a Jan. 9, 2009, report...

But what we saw from the administration in January 2009 was a projection, not a promise. And it was a projection that came with heavy disclaimers.

"It should be understood that all of the estimates presented in this memo are subject to significant margins of error," the report states. "There is the more fundamental uncertainty that comes with any estimate of the effects of a program. Our estimates of economic relationships and rules of thumb are derived from historical experience and so will not apply exactly in any given episode. Furthermore, the uncertainty is surely higher than normal now because the current recession is unusual both in its fundamental causes and its severity."

There's also a footnote that goes along with the chart that states: "Forecasts of the unemployment rate without the recovery plan vary substantially. Some private forecasters anticipate unemployment rates as high as 11% in the absence of action."

PolitiFact | Will: Obama said stimulus would cap unemployment at 8 percent
The use of the word "promise" in connection with the report is simply a lie. It's the kind of distortion that's unfortunately typical of Republicans, but it's still a lie.

The "distortion" here is by people like you who would like us to believe that when Christina Romer stood in front of the White House giving the press conference where she made the 8% claim, that even though she was the head of Barack Obama's Economic Council, was representing the President and the President never corrected what she said...that she wasn't speaking for the Obama White House.

THAT, Sun is a crock...

 

[Sundial]

Even Barney Frank acknowledges the point. I mean, some of these Libs are simply incredulous with their revisionist history. Why do historical facts not matter to some people? I guess they just believe everyone is stupid, you repeat the lie enough and they will just go along with it.

""President Obama, whom I greatly admire ... when the economic recovery bill — we're supposed to call it the 'recovery bill,' not the 'stimulus' bill; that's what the focus groups tell us — he predicted or his aides predicted at the time that if it passed, unemployment would get under 8 percent," Frank said Tuesday evening during an appearance on the Fox Business Network. "That was a dumb thing to do."

Frank: Obama admin 'dumb' to predict no higher than 8% unemployment - The Hill's Blog Briefing Room

Politifact has rated this story false at least three times: once when when it came from Boehner, once from Cantor, and when it came from George Will.

First, we could find no instance of anyone in the administration directly making such a public pledge. Rather, it comes via a Jan. 9, 2009, report...

But what we saw from the administration in January 2009 was a projection, not a promise. And it was a projection that came with heavy disclaimers.

"It should be understood that all of the estimates presented in this memo are subject to significant margins of error," the report states. "There is the more fundamental uncertainty that comes with any estimate of the effects of a program. Our estimates of economic relationships and rules of thumb are derived from historical experience and so will not apply exactly in any given episode. Furthermore, the uncertainty is surely higher than normal now because the current recession is unusual both in its fundamental causes and its severity."

There's also a footnote that goes along with the chart that states: "Forecasts of the unemployment rate without the recovery plan vary substantially. Some private forecasters anticipate unemployment rates as high as 11% in the absence of action."

PolitiFact | Will: Obama said stimulus would cap unemployment at 8 percent
The use of the word "promise" in connection with the report is simply a lie. It's the kind of distortion that's unfortunately typical of Republicans, but it's still a lie.

The "distortion" here is by people like you who would like us to believe that when Christina Romer stood in front of the White House giving the press conference where she made the 8% claim, that even though she was the head of Barack Obama's Economic Council, was representing the President and the President never corrected what she said...that she wasn't speaking for the Obama White House.

THAT, Sun is a crock...

What is there to say? I've provided the facts and given the quotes. If you insist on believing what you want to believe, you're entitled to do that. It's not like there aren't millions of you out there.

 

[Billy000]

Here's the other problem with your numbers, Billy...

They compare what they "think" might have happened with no stimulus compared to what happened with the Obama Stimulus but they don't compare the Obama Stimulus with a stimulus that primed the private sector and let the public sector contract (which if you believe as I do that government is bloated and inefficient, is a good thing). If we'd spent our trillion dollars THAT way how many jobs would have been created instead of temporarily "saved"? If we'd gone THAT way would the President even need to be back asking for Stimulus II or would growth in the private sector have generated significant revenues...enough to pay for the government that we DO need? Just food for thought.

No, what they did was look at the direct affect the stimulus had on the economy. Come on, is it really so hard to believe that Obama created jobs? Is it really? Why do you try to fight the validity of independent analysis? Unless you can find research that disputes these claims, anything criticism you have toward it is unfounded.

 

[The Rabbi]

Here's the other problem with your numbers, Billy...

They compare what they "think" might have happened with no stimulus compared to what happened with the Obama Stimulus but they don't compare the Obama Stimulus with a stimulus that primed the private sector and let the public sector contract (which if you believe as I do that government is bloated and inefficient, is a good thing). If we'd spent our trillion dollars THAT way how many jobs would have been created instead of temporarily "saved"? If we'd gone THAT way would the President even need to be back asking for Stimulus II or would growth in the private sector have generated significant revenues...enough to pay for the government that we DO need? Just food for thought.

No, what they did was look at the direct affect the stimulus had on the economy. Come on, is it really so hard to believe that Obama created jobs? Is it really? Why do you try to fight the validity of independent analysis? Unless you can find research that disputes these claims, anything criticism you have toward it is unfounded.

If he created jobs then the UE rate would not be higher now than when he took office. The labor force participation rate would not be lower now than when he took office.
This is simple observation, no calculations needed. Calculations are needed to make someone believe something that is patently false.
Amd then there is "what is not seen." We did not see the jobs that would have been created in the absence of the stimulus. We did not see the decisions of millions of businessmen based on the anticipation of higher taxes or more regulation. Just because we didnt see them doesn't mean they weren't there. They were.

 

[Listening]

Politifact has rated this story false at least three times: once when when it came from Boehner, once from Cantor, and when it came from George Will.



PolitiFact | Will: Obama said stimulus would cap unemployment at 8 percent
The use of the word "promise" in connection with the report is simply a lie. It's the kind of distortion that's unfortunately typical of Republicans, but it's still a lie.

The "distortion" here is by people like you who would like us to believe that when Christina Romer stood in front of the White House giving the press conference where she made the 8% claim, that even though she was the head of Barack Obama's Economic Council, was representing the President and the President never corrected what she said...that she wasn't speaking for the Obama White House.

THAT, Sun is a crock...

What is there to say? I've provided the facts and given the quotes. If you insist on believing what you want to believe, you're entitled to do that. It's not like there aren't millions of you out there.

Do they give you guys a playbook ?

This is all so similar.

Make a statement to get people excited and imply promises.....

When things don't materialize....."Hey we never said that".

It is bunk and it shows a complete lack of integrity on your part.

 

[The Rabbi]

The "distortion" here is by people like you who would like us to believe that when Christina Romer stood in front of the White House giving the press conference where she made the 8% claim, that even though she was the head of Barack Obama's Economic Council, was representing the President and the President never corrected what she said...that she wasn't speaking for the Obama White House.

THAT, Sun is a crock...

What is there to say? I've provided the facts and given the quotes. If you insist on believing what you want to believe, you're entitled to do that. It's not like there aren't millions of you out there.

Do they give you guys a playbook ?

This is all so similar.

Make a statement to get people excited and imply promises.....

When things don't materialize....."Hey we never said that".

It is bunk and it shows a complete lack of integrity on your part.

It is clear the administration sold thbe stimulus based on promises of what would happen if they did or didnt pass it. The Left is playing games about the meaning of the word Is.

 

[Oldstyle]

Here's the other problem with your numbers, Billy...

They compare what they "think" might have happened with no stimulus compared to what happened with the Obama Stimulus but they don't compare the Obama Stimulus with a stimulus that primed the private sector and let the public sector contract (which if you believe as I do that government is bloated and inefficient, is a good thing). If we'd spent our trillion dollars THAT way how many jobs would have been created instead of temporarily "saved"? If we'd gone THAT way would the President even need to be back asking for Stimulus II or would growth in the private sector have generated significant revenues...enough to pay for the government that we DO need? Just food for thought.

No, what they did was look at the direct affect the stimulus had on the economy. Come on, is it really so hard to believe that Obama created jobs? Is it really? Why do you try to fight the validity of independent analysis? Unless you can find research that disputes these claims, anything criticism you have toward it is unfounded.

I'm sorry, Billy...but the number of jobs that were "created" by Obama's stimulus were minimal at best...that's why they invented a new statistic..."jobs created or SAVED". They didn't do that because they created so many jobs...they did that because they DIDN'T create many jobs at all and needed to make it appear better than it really was.

 

[Mr.Nick]

1) The Stimulus: created around 2 million jobs. According to Moody Analytics, it "significantly softened the recession."

What is Obama's actual record on creating jobs? | syracuse.com

2) According to this site that cites empirican research, it is likely the Recovery Act's benefits significantly outweighed the costs:

Did the stimulus work? A review of the nine best studies on the subject - The Washington Post

3) The results of Obama extending unemployment benefits under his stimulus plan reduced the fall of GDP by 18.3% and saved 1.6 million jobs

ETA News Release: US Labor Department study underscores positive impact of unemployment insurance [11/16/2010]

4) 114,407 teaching jobs have been created or saved

Education Jobs Fund - Official Website

5) The GM, Crysler bailout added about 45,000 and saved about 1 million:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/rss_viewer/one_year_later_autos_report.pdf

(^^^The White House is citing the Bureau of Labor Statistics in this article)


I found other independent research showing "possible economic progress" under Obama's stimulus, but I know you cons would be quick to jump all over any information like that. For now, though, this should settle the argument that Obama "has done nothing." If you would all just stop watching Fox News (or MSNBC), you may just have an informed opinion about Obama.

Oh, hes helped create union jobs and government jobs but he gave the private sector the big fucking finger...

 

[Listening]

What is there to say? I've provided the facts and given the quotes. If you insist on believing what you want to believe, you're entitled to do that. It's not like there aren't millions of you out there.

Do they give you guys a playbook ?

This is all so similar.

Make a statement to get people excited and imply promises.....

When things don't materialize....."Hey we never said that".

It is bunk and it shows a complete lack of integrity on your part.

It is clear the administration sold thbe stimulus based on promises of what would happen if they did or didnt pass it. The Left is playing games about the meaning of the word Is.

Part of it was promises and part of it was fearmongering.

When someone says....if you do this, the unemployment rate won't rise above 8% (a scary thought as it is), it implies that if IF YOU DON"T DO THAT.....the world will come apart.

But, hey, we just send out lackey's to do our bidding and if what they say (or won't say) does not come true....well, President Obama never said that......

So it isn't even allowed in the conversation.

The stimulus is bunk.

It saved nothing but Obama's standing with the auto worker unions.

He's a one termer.

If you look at realclear polls on approval ratings.....

Rasmussen has him at a45/49. And that is the average.

Gallup has it at 42/51.

AP has it at 44/54.

Only Pew shows a ration above 1.

The average is holding steady....he is gone.

 

[The Rabbi]

Do they give you guys a playbook ?

This is all so similar.

Make a statement to get people excited and imply promises.....

When things don't materialize....."Hey we never said that".

It is bunk and it shows a complete lack of integrity on your part.

It is clear the administration sold thbe stimulus based on promises of what would happen if they did or didnt pass it. The Left is playing games about the meaning of the word Is.

Part of it was promises and part of it was fearmongering.

When someone says....if you do this, the unemployment rate won't rise above 8% (a scary thought as it is), it implies that if IF YOU DON"T DO THAT.....the world will come apart.

But, hey, we just send out lackey's to do our bidding and if what they say (or won't say) does not come true....well, President Obama never said that......

So it isn't even allowed in the conversation.

The stimulus is bunk.

It saved nothing but Obama's standing with the auto worker unions.

He's a one termer.

If you look at realclear polls on approval ratings.....

Rasmussen has him at a45/49. And that is the average.

Gallup has it at 42/51.

AP has it at 44/54.

Only Pew shows a ration above 1.

The average is holding steady....he is gone.

I know Congressman Zach Wamp from Chattanooga was running for governor here and one of the big strikes against him was that he voted for the stimulus. When asked about it, he said Geithner had promised them the entire financial system would fall apart if they didn't pass it.
So the administration over-promised and over-fear mongered to get their way. They have never regained any credibility with the GOP since (and note they had credibility coming into office).

 

[cheetah440]

Politifact has rated this story false at least three times: once when when it came from Boehner, once from Cantor, and when it came from George Will.



PolitiFact | Will: Obama said stimulus would cap unemployment at 8 percent
The use of the word "promise" in connection with the report is simply a lie. It's the kind of distortion that's unfortunately typical of Republicans, but it's still a lie.

The "distortion" here is by people like you who would like us to believe that when Christina Romer stood in front of the White House giving the press conference where she made the 8% claim, that even though she was the head of Barack Obama's Economic Council, was representing the President and the President never corrected what she said...that she wasn't speaking for the Obama White House.

THAT, Sun is a crock...

What is there to say? I've provided the facts and given the quotes. If you insist on believing what you want to believe, you're entitled to do that. It's not like there aren't millions of you out there.

Why won't you answer the question? Did Barney Frank get it wrong?

 

[Sundial]

Yep. Tell me this: is there a difference between a promise and a forecast?

 

[Jarhead]

Yep. Tell me this: is there a difference between a promise and a forecast?

When you are asking for the American People to allow you to borrow a trillion dollars....you had better be dammed sure that they kinow your "predictions" are just that....predictions.

He never did it. To the contrary, he said he had the top world economists saying his solution was the way to go.

Top world economists? Really?

And not one of them knew the economic situation was worse than they thought?

Come on....you are most definitely brighter than that.

 

[Oldstyle]

For a progressive to come here "now" and maintain that the Obama White House never said that unemployment would remain below 8% if the Obama Stimulus was granted to them is the epitome of playing fast and loose with the truth. Obama's very own economic advisors are the ones that made that prediction representing the Obama Administration and Obama took their message out on the road with him...stumping across the country saying that "leading economists" backed his plan.