For those of you who think Obama has not helped create or save jobs...

[The T]

1) The Stimulus: created around 2 million jobs. According to Moody Analytics, it "significantly softened the recession."

What is Obama's actual record on creating jobs? | syracuse.com

2) According to this site that cites empirican research, it is likely the Recovery Act's benefits significantly outweighed the costs:

Did the stimulus work? A review of the nine best studies on the subject - The Washington Post

3) The results of Obama extending unemployment benefits under his stimulus plan reduced the fall of GDP by 18.3% and saved 1.6 million jobs

ETA News Release: US Labor Department study underscores positive impact of unemployment insurance [11/16/2010]

4) 114,407 teaching jobs have been created or saved

Education Jobs Fund - Official Website

5) The GM, Crysler bailout added about 45,000 and saved about 1 million:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/rss_viewer/one_year_later_autos_report.pdf

(^^^The White House is citing the Bureau of Labor Statistics in this article)


I found other independent research showing "possible economic progress" under Obama's stimulus, but I know you cons would be quick to jump all over any information like that. For now, though, this should settle the argument that Obama "has done nothing." If you would all just stop watching Fox News (or MSNBC), you may just have an informed opinion about Obama.

It makes me laugh when I see people cite these stats and articles.

NO ONE SIAD TAKING A TRILLION DOLLARS AND GIVING IT TO PEOPLE SO THEY CAN HIRE PEOPLE WOULD NOT RESULT IN PEOPLE GETTING HIRED.

The question that was presented was....will it prove to be more cost effective AND time efficient if we do nothing and let the private sector do what it has done for decades...and what it has done so that 91% of the people ARE working (people seem to forget about the 91% opf Americans that have jobs).....

But the irony?

Despite a trillion dollars borrowed and spent and 3 years have passed....poeople are still doing their best to show SOME sort of positive news out of it.

Like working overtime literally to hold onto thier jobs in the private sector as Obama grows Government...and panders to Unions.

 

[The Rabbi]

A "saved" job is any job that existed before the stimulus and exists today. In that sense, every job in America is either created and saved. And so everyone owes his job to Obama.

Where do they teach this stuff?

 

[Billy000]

My very realtive analogy was not in response to your OP. It was a response to your statement where you said the stimulus did not go far enough, but it was not a failure.

Stay with the program...it is why we "quote" what we are responding to.

Well, the problem with your analogy is that is very disproportionate to the results of the stimulus package.

lol....I see...disporportionate....gotcha.

Yes, exactly. I'm glad you are catching on.

 

[kwc57]

It's amazing that some people still buy the "saved or created" business. Even the WH isn't pushing that crap anymore.
The stimulus was the biggest failure in public policy since the WIN button. Even by the administration's own accounting it failed.

Everyone agrees the stimulus didn't go far enough, but to label it a "failure" is simply not true.

Really? I like to think of myself as part of "everyone" and I can tell you that I disagree that the stimulus didn't go far enough. We should have never had the stimulus. It is impossible to spend your way out of debt. Try this. Spend ever last dime you have. Then go get 3 or 4 credit cards and charge them to the hilt to spend you way out of debt and let us know how it worked out for you. Are you like in 8th grade or something?

 

[Liability]

How can you conservatives make fun of the President who created or saved over 100 trillion jobs?

 

[The T]

How can you conservatives make fun of the President who created or saved over 100 trillion jobs?

Because we can?

 

[The T]

A "saved" job is any job that existed before the stimulus and exists today. In that sense, every job in America is either created and saved. And so everyone owes his job to Obama.

Where do they teach this stuff?

Now juxtapose this with the lower unemployment in the holiday season...

 

[Billy000]

How can you conservatives make fun of the President who created or saved over 100 trillion jobs?

Christ, give it a rest.

 

[Sundial]

If an owner of a baseball team bought a player with a reputation of being a slugger for 5 million a year and signed him to a 3 year contract....and at the end of his thrid year, he averaged 10 HR's a year, 30 RBI's a year and batted .230...

Would you think the owner saw him as a failure or as "not doing enough"?

Your weak analogy does nothing to dispute the information in my OP.

My very realtive analogy was not in response to your OP. It was a response to your statement where you said the stimulus did not go far enough, but it was not a failure.

Stay with the program...it is why we "quote" what we are responding to.

He posted factual analysis showing that the stimulus worked. You're saying what? That it was expensive? We already knew that.

At least you're willing to acknowledge that it did work. That's something, I guess.

 

[Sundial]

the administration promised that if we did not pass the stimulus the UE rate would go above 8%. If we did it would be below 7%. The result has been a UE rate over 9% for most of this administration.
If that isn't a failure I'm not sure what is.

Where did he promise that? When? What words did he use?

Or - are you just making shit up?

 

[Jarhead]

How about we approach it this way...

If back in early 2009 Obama said this in a state of the union address to congress....

" I would like congress to grant me permission to borrow one trillion dollars so I can enact a stimulus/recovery plan. It is our estimate that this stimulus will rewsult in an increase in unemployment to ablout 10% before dropping and stablizing at 9% by the end of three years. Our GDP will show very little growth over the three year period with the stimulus, but an increase is still an increase. Some of those receiving stimulus money will likely go under and I can assure you that at least one company will lose 550 million of the borrowed money with the taxpayer being pushed to the back of the line as it pertains to recouping some of that money. On the other side, however, we will be able to ensure that some states will be able to retain many of their employees...in essence allowing us to save many government jobs"

Do you think a democratic congress would have passed it?

If your answer is no....then the stimulus was a failure.

If your answer is yes, you are full of shit.

 

[The Rabbi]

the administration promised that if we did not pass the stimulus the UE rate would go above 8%. If we did it would be below 7%. The result has been a UE rate over 9% for most of this administration.
If that isn't a failure I'm not sure what is.

Where did he promise that? When? What words did he use?

Or - are you just making shit up?

If I show you will you shut the fuck up and go away after you apologize?

 

[The Rabbi]

How about we approach it this way...

If back in early 2009 Obama said this in a state of the union address to congress....

" I would like congress to grant me permission to borrow one trillion dollars so I can enact a stimulus/recovery plan. It is our estimate that this stimulus will rewsult in an increase in unemployment to ablout 10% before dropping and stablizing at 9% by the end of three years. Our GDP will show very little growth over the three year period with the stimulus, but an increase is still an increase. Some of those receiving stimulus money will likely go under and I can assure you that at least one company will lose 550 million of the borrowed money with the taxpayer being pushed to the back of the line as it pertains to recouping some of that money. On the other side, however, we will be able to ensure that some states will be able to retain many of their employees...in essence allowing us to save many government jobs"

Do you think a democratic congress would have passed it?

If your answer is no....then the stimulus was a failure.

If your answer is yes, you are full of shit.

The answer will be they had to do something and at the time that seemed reasonable. But the recession, caused by Bush, was worse than they thought so it didnt work as well.
That's bullshit, of course. But Obama-suckers can justify anything.

 

[Billy000]

How about we approach it this way...

If back in early 2009 Obama said this in a state of the union address to congress....

" I would like congress to grant me permission to borrow one trillion dollars so I can enact a stimulus/recovery plan. It is our estimate that this stimulus will rewsult in an increase in unemployment to ablout 10% before dropping and stablizing at 9% by the end of three years. Our GDP will show very little growth over the three year period with the stimulus, but an increase is still an increase. Some of those receiving stimulus money will likely go under and I can assure you that at least one company will lose 550 million of the borrowed money with the taxpayer being pushed to the back of the line as it pertains to recouping some of that money. On the other side, however, we will be able to ensure that some states will be able to retain many of their employees...in essence allowing us to save many government jobs"

Do you think a democratic congress would have passed it?

If your answer is no....then the stimulus was a failure.

If your answer is yes, you are full of shit.

The answer will be they had to do something and at the time that seemed reasonable. But the recession, caused by Bush, was worse than they thought so it didnt work as well.
That's bullshit, of course. But Obama-suckers can justify anything.

You are both just full of non-sense. Spew your conservative rhetoric all you want, it doesn't dispute my OP.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

1) The Stimulus: created around 2 million jobs. According to Moody Analytics, it "significantly softened the recession."

What is Obama's actual record on creating jobs? | syracuse.com

2) According to this site that cites empirican research, it is likely the Recovery Act's benefits significantly outweighed the costs:

Did the stimulus work? A review of the nine best studies on the subject - The Washington Post

3) The results of Obama extending unemployment benefits under his stimulus plan reduced the fall of GDP by 18.3% and saved 1.6 million jobs

ETA News Release: US Labor Department study underscores positive impact of unemployment insurance [11/16/2010]

4) 114,407 teaching jobs have been created or saved

Education Jobs Fund - Official Website

5) The GM, Crysler bailout added about 45,000 and saved about 1 million:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/rss_viewer/one_year_later_autos_report.pdf

(^^^The White House is citing the Bureau of Labor Statistics in this article)


I found other independent research showing "possible economic progress" under Obama's stimulus, but I know you cons would be quick to jump all over any information like that. For now, though, this should settle the argument that Obama "has done nothing." If you would all just stop watching Fox News (or MSNBC), you may just have an informed opinion about Obama.

You should go back and read the thread YOU started about how ignorant Americans are; then rethink this piece.

 

[Billy000]

1) The Stimulus: created around 2 million jobs. According to Moody Analytics, it "significantly softened the recession."

What is Obama's actual record on creating jobs? | syracuse.com

2) According to this site that cites empirican research, it is likely the Recovery Act's benefits significantly outweighed the costs:

Did the stimulus work? A review of the nine best studies on the subject - The Washington Post

3) The results of Obama extending unemployment benefits under his stimulus plan reduced the fall of GDP by 18.3% and saved 1.6 million jobs

ETA News Release: US Labor Department study underscores positive impact of unemployment insurance [11/16/2010]

4) 114,407 teaching jobs have been created or saved

Education Jobs Fund - Official Website

5) The GM, Crysler bailout added about 45,000 and saved about 1 million:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/rss_viewer/one_year_later_autos_report.pdf

(^^^The White House is citing the Bureau of Labor Statistics in this article)


I found other independent research showing "possible economic progress" under Obama's stimulus, but I know you cons would be quick to jump all over any information like that. For now, though, this should settle the argument that Obama "has done nothing." If you would all just stop watching Fox News (or MSNBC), you may just have an informed opinion about Obama.

You should go back and read the thread YOU started about how ignorant Americans are; then rethink this piece.

What?

 

[Jarhead]

I reviewed a majority of the articles you cited...
I am not sure if you noticed, but nothing specific is identified...they say things like "created or saved" and other non specific data.

However...

There is only one thing you need to look at to determine if the stimulus did what it was touted to do.

The unemployment numbers.

Please tell me how unemployment can go UP at the same time the amount of unemployed goes down?

But in an effort to back my concerns I will use this example...

Comapny A and Company B both make widgets.
Comapny A gets a check from the government for 1 Billioon dollars to stimulate hiring
Comapny B gets nothing.

Comapny A and Company B both bid for a contract.
Company A offers a bid at a better price becuase it now has the cash flow to do so.
Company A wins the contract. Company B, on its last leg (as company A was before it got the cash), is forced to lay off 100 employees since it lost the bid...its opnly chance of surviving.
Comapny A however not only won the bid, but it no longer has direct copmpetition from company B...soi it gets a larger share of the market.
So now, with the new contract PLUS the billiion dollars it is able to hire more employees to fill the void of company B going under.
So it hires 90 people.

100 laid off

90 hired

net (-10) jobs gained

But the report comes out that becuase of the stimulus, 90 jobs were created.

THAT is how jobs created results in a higher unemployment number.

Dont just cite articles....look at the logic and discerne the information from there.

 

[The T]

How about we approach it this way...

If back in early 2009 Obama said this in a state of the union address to congress....

" I would like congress to grant me permission to borrow one trillion dollars so I can enact a stimulus/recovery plan. It is our estimate that this stimulus will rewsult in an increase in unemployment to ablout 10% before dropping and stablizing at 9% by the end of three years. Our GDP will show very little growth over the three year period with the stimulus, but an increase is still an increase. Some of those receiving stimulus money will likely go under and I can assure you that at least one company will lose 550 million of the borrowed money with the taxpayer being pushed to the back of the line as it pertains to recouping some of that money. On the other side, however, we will be able to ensure that some states will be able to retain many of their employees...in essence allowing us to save many government jobs"

Do you think a democratic congress would have passed it?

If your answer is no....then the stimulus was a failure.

If your answer is yes, you are full of shit.

The answer will be they had to do something and at the time that seemed reasonable. But the recession, caused by Bush, was worse than they thought so it didnt work as well.
That's bullshit, of course. But Obama-suckers can justify anything.

Obama acts as if he didn't know and was just Immaculated yesterday. He knew. Obama is a LIAR.

 

[Billy000]

I reviewed a majority of the articles you cited...
I am not sure if you noticed, but nothing specific is identified...they say things like "created or saved" and other non specific data.

However...

There is only one thing you need to look at to determine if the stimulus did what it was touted to do.

The unemployment numbers.

Please tell me how unemployment can go UP at the same time the amount of unemployed goes down?

But in an effort to back my concerns I will use this example...

Comapny A and Company B both make widgets.
Comapny A gets a check from the government for 1 Billioon dollars to stimulate hiring
Comapny B gets nothing.

Comapny A and Company B both bid for a contract.
Company A offers a bid at a better price becuase it now has the cash flow to do so.
Company A wins the contract. Company B, on its last leg (as company A was before it got the cash), is forced to lay off 100 employees since it lost the bid...its opnly chance of surviving.
Comapny A however not only won the bid, but it no longer has direct copmpetition from company B...soi it gets a larger share of the market.
So now, with the new contract PLUS the billiion dollars it is able to hire more employees to fill the void of company B going under.
So it hires 90 people.

100 laid off

90 hired

net (-10) jobs gained

But the report comes out that becuase of the stimulus, 90 jobs were created.

THAT is how jobs created results in a higher unemployment number.

Dont just cite articles....look at the logic and discerne the information from there.

Plenty of specifics were identified. The specifics I listed in my thread were in those sources. Either you are lying, or you are just stupid. Which is it?

Of course, the unemployment rate has risen (and fallen), but that doesn't mean Obama didn't help create jobs. In fact, there has been slight economic growth ever since year began. I mean you do realize that there are factors outside of Obama's control right? The man isn't a cure-all for the economy. He never claimed he was. The sooner Americans understand that, the sooner they can learn to be patient with economic recovery.

 

[Sundial]

How about we approach it this way...

If back in early 2009 Obama said this in a state of the union address to congress....

" I would like congress to grant me permission to borrow one trillion dollars so I can enact a stimulus/recovery plan. It is our estimate that this stimulus will rewsult in an increase in unemployment to ablout 10% before dropping and stablizing at 9% by the end of three years. Our GDP will show very little growth over the three year period with the stimulus, but an increase is still an increase. Some of those receiving stimulus money will likely go under and I can assure you that at least one company will lose 550 million of the borrowed money with the taxpayer being pushed to the back of the line as it pertains to recouping some of that money. On the other side, however, we will be able to ensure that some states will be able to retain many of their employees...in essence allowing us to save many government jobs"

Do you think a democratic congress would have passed it?

If your answer is no....then the stimulus was a failure.

If your answer is yes, you are full of shit.

Or how about this:

Suppose back in 09 the President had said, "The stock market has fallen by 50%. The banking system is imploding. Banks are refusing to lend to each other, and may have to shut their doors altogether. Foreclosures are skyrocketing. Companies are going bankrupt - GM, Merril Lynch, Lehman Bros., AIG etc. Unemployment is soaring. Economists are saying if nothing is done the financial system may collapse altogether.

We can do nothing and hope for the best.

Or we can intervene, and by the end of 2011 the economy will have added 3 million jobs, stocks will have doubled, and the economy will be expanding."

That's what actually happened.

The idea that the economy and the banking system would have improved on their own, on the other hand, is wishful thinking.